How to get started in politics as a career.

Bottle_of_Smoke · 13-01-2011 01:33PM

A certain amount of that is gonna be correlation rather than causation.

Like if you have a father or grandfather who was a TD of course you're going to be more likely to be interested in politics and therefore be more likely to try and get elected.

zig · 13-01-2011 04:29PM

regarding the topic of families, I just came across this
says it all really
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Families_in_the_Oireachtas

Permabear · 13-01-2011 07:15PM

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Lockstep · 13-01-2011 08:16PM

I'd say his breaking into politics came from his work in the Gaelthact Co-Op rather than his ancestry, especially as these previous politicians were Dublin based.

later12 · 13-01-2011 09:49PM

That doesn't make any sense. Presuming that you meant to type 'concede', you mean to suggest that unless I can disprove your theory, I am wrong? What sort of an argument is that? Your theory is entirely unprovable (in its favour and in dissent) without the ability to account for voter motivation in any real way, the question largely boils down to personal opinion or attempts at educated guesswork.

O'Cuiv is generationally far removed from De Valera; he first became a TD 17 years after the death of his grandfather (incidentally, not without considerable electoral failure along the way) and even longer after his grandfather ceased to be politically relevant - it had been about thirty years since DeValera stepped down as Taoiseach when O'Cuiv first entered national politics in 1989.

While it is plausible that his relationship to Eamon De Valera inspired voter confidence, one must find it even more plausible that the real motivation in question was that the relationship may have motivated O'Cuiv towards a political career in the first place. Considerably so in light of the fact that it was not until O'Cuiv was significantly politically experienced that he was appointed to the national legislature.

If political relationships are so all important, why are none of his direct relations in politics? Or none of DeValera's closer relations, including those who still bear the family name? And why, if your theory is correct, did O'Cuiv stumble so much in the beginning of his political career?

These factors, in my opinion, detract significantly from your case.

Nearly 1 in 5, right, so less than 20%. I wonder how equivalent figures would stack up against Doctors, jockeys, school teachers and other professionals?

pigeonbutler · 13-01-2011 10:09PM

I'm not a fan of the constant complaining about "Nepotism" in Irish politics. Nepotism would be a TD appointing a relative to a job that the TD had in his gift.

People who are sons/daughters of current or former politicians being elected by the people of a town, county or Dáil constituency is not Nepotism. Yes it is the case that quite often people with a family name in politics gain an electoral advantage from it. The only reason that happens though is through the choice of the people. They have had opportunities every 4-5 years to elect or reject Brian Cowen, Brian Lenihan, Mary Coughlan, Mary Hanafin and every other TD but they've chosen to elect them.

If you're anti-democracy, then come out and say so. Yes, the electorate often make bad choices. That's life. But how else should we choose our politicians?

Permabear · 13-01-2011 10:57PM

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Permabear · 13-01-2011 11:01PM

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pigeonbutler · 13-01-2011 11:58PM

People can do any of the following:

a) Run as Independents
b) Set up their own party
c) Recruit more supporters of theirs to whatever party they want to be on the ticket of in order to win a convention

Family members aren't selected because of nepotism. They're usually selected because they've the best chance of getting elected.

As another poster as said, if you surveyed the number of Doctors, Barristers, Soldiers, Gardaí, Train drivers, teachers, whatever - you pick 'em - who are following their fathers or mothers footsteps you'll find numbers not all that different to politics.

pigeonbutler · 14-01-2011 12:03AM

He's there because the people of Galway West chose to put him there. in 2007 the people of that constituency had a choice of 13 candidates (including 2 other FF). They chose to give Eamonn O'Cuiv more votes than anybody else (9,645 - next nearest was only less than 2/3 of that at 6,086).

If people voted like that because he's Dev's grandson, then that's their democratic right. It may be a pretty stupid criteria to use, but it's their right to decide however they wish.

Lockstep · 14-01-2011 10:01AM

It was probably a motivating factor in why he got involved in politics (in the same way that the kids from a family of lawyers will be motivated to become lawyers).
However, you'd need to show more evidence if you want to claim there's a link between his election history and his connection to Lemass.

The Lemass dynasty is concentrated in Dublin whereas Ó Cuív is voted in Galway West (his voting base is Conamara).
If we were talking about the likes of Beverly Cooper-Flynn (who ran in the same region as her father) you might have a point but you'd be hard pressed to find more contrasting places in Ireland than Conamara and Dublin.

Permabear · 14-01-2011 07:21PM

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later12 · 14-01-2011 09:52PM

As far as I am aware there are 27 children of former TDs (or senators) currently holding public office. That amounts to about 16% of TDs. Hardly earth shattering.

In other words, 84% of TDs in office are the children of shopkeepers, doctors, dentists, farmers, bus drivers, and so on.

While it might be possible to argue that being the son or the daughter of a TD or Senator, therefore, can be advantageous to one's political career, it is not really possible to argue that such relationships are even a remote pre-requisite to political success more generally.

If it were such a serious factor, one would certainly have to ask the question why it is 16% and not, say twice or three times that.

Lockstep · 15-01-2011 07:43PM

My apologies, typing error. Meant to write Dev and not Lemass.

As for his name's 'powerful resonance', he started out doing poorly in his political career. It was only after going onto the Senate and Local election route that he got into the Dáil.

I'm unsure as to the internal nominations procedure for Fianna Fáil but in Labour and Fine Gael, it is the local branch that democratically chooses it's nominees. If FF runs the same way, Someone with a reputation for protecting Conamara wouldn't see much trouble being nominated.

Mainly as your entire logic is "He's Dev's grandson, therefore he found it easy to get into politics'. At a time when FF support is melting across the country, Ó Cuív is still extremely popular. To be honest, I didn't even know he was Dev's grandson before this thread. I don't like Ó Cuív at all but he's extremely popular in Conamara. The reason being that he's seen as someone who delivers for the region and who cares about the people. Or such is his reputation over here.

13spanner · 15-01-2011 07:47PM

Judging by recent developments in the irish political parties, it looks like ''who you know'' more than ''what you know'' gets you into the big jobs :rolleyes: . But I suppose get your name around locally first with community work and after that I dunno...

motherriley · 15-01-2011 08:18PM

You mean that you want to get on the gravy train. Why not become a MEP now that really is a gravy train without a doubt.:rolleyes:

How to get started in politics as a career.

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