How to get started in politics as a career.

jonesy93

Hello,
Just wondering how would someone get started in politics. What degrees etc would help. What work prior to entering would help and how would one join a party, run in an election, and take their seat in the dail if succesful.
Also, can somone make a career of politics if they are not elected into the dail or seanad? If so how?
Thank you,

PomBear

No degrees stand for you anymore than another it would seem. Most TDs would have a degree, some don't.

Community work usually helps.
Join a political party, learn your politics (reading books, newspapers), keep in the loop of current affairs and be able to have opinions on them, flourish in your part, impress them.
Learning Irish can help you also.

mikemac

Listen to your constituents complain why aren't you in Dublin working on national issues
Listen to the rest of your constituents complain you are never seen around and aren't helping with local issues unlike that other hard working local candidate who will probably replace you next time

Try to please everyone and fail. So do the best you can

Try at local level OP as a councillor, a good way to get started. You don't need a degree

filthymcnasty

Get involved in youth wings of political groups-usually have a group in the various colleges, contact your local party office etc. Politicians have lots of different backgrounds so your degree is not hugely important.
It will be cut throat at selection time i.e you could work your arse off for years in your community and get yourself on a local council however when it comes to election time a retiring TDs spotty young son fresh from sailing around the world or some such will be parachuted in over your head- and he will probably get elected too.
That is the nature of politics in this country.

zig

Its really two routes, one where you stick to a party you like and become a member, offer help canvassing for them, attend any meetings,let them know who you are, and how much your willing to help, eventually try and become a councillor through this party. You will need massive support from the party so you will probably have to lick holes for a while if you havent grown up in that environment.

The other is an independent route where you get yourself involved in anything communityish(probably not a word),try and help out with anything that could be happening. You would really score browny points if you sent around leaflets to your area offering to help with anything, treat yourself as some sort of community provider. And eventually run in the local elections.
Once you become a councillor you will know at that stage what must be done to become a TD, if its with a party as opposed to independent, you may have to learn to become a cute hoore, because there may be many people that want their "place" to run in the General Election.

What really will get you the votes is being very active and public between elections. this is why Fianna Fail were so successful , absolute masters locally at getting the votes and doing the dirty work that alot of other councillors and TDs arent bothered doing. But unfortunately that's all their good for.
You do not need a degree, as a matter of fact , it appears you do not even have to be that intelligent.

But you need confidence and ability to win over the locals with charm. Tbh, I hate to put you off, but most politicians were surrounded in that kind of environment as they grew up, so they already know the answers to all your questions. Obviously not all though, times are changing, alot of people want something different so now is a better time than ever.

Best of luck, if you do some day become a successful TD or even Minister please remember this... Leave the local work to the councillors and put your efforts in the dail to improving the country as a whole.

If you do not already have a passion for local people/politics/issues/events then I think you may not be cut out for it, because its not like learning to become a computer programmer or engineer where there is set route you take with set degrees and set experience.
Regarding degrees, Id honestly go for a degree you are interested in ,whether its completely independent of your political career desire or not. Because you will be working hard at both the degree and local issues. The last thing you want is to hate college.

zig

I might just add there is a MASSIVE MASSIVE difference between being interested in politics and actually wanting to be a politician.
I love reading about politics and economics, I love reading about local and general elections, i love hearing politicians on the radio (usually talking sh1te), I would love to see a different type of country, but not in a million years would I ever dream of becoming a politician.

Lads, I've just cleaned this thread up.

Can we have less of the After Hours responses please? This is the politics forum. We strive to have a higher standard of debate here.

Papa.

Pat D. Almighty

Why was my input deleted?

If you would like to PM me, feel free

the groutch

there's been a few people asking about this over the last few months

a general election campaign can be very expensive without the financial backing of a political party, and 2 months to run a campaign from scratch is nigh-on impossible.

you're chances of getting elected are slim and none, unless you are very well known local figure, even then that might only cover a small part of your potential constituency.

best thing to do is to prepare properly for a local election campaign in 2014, and if getting elected, use it as a stepping stone towards 2016, which will probably be the most open election ever

Jesus Wept

Teacher. Most of them seem to be teachers for some bizarre reason.

the groutch

The-Rigger wrote: »

Teacher. Most of them seem to be teachers for some bizarre reason.

because they would have been well known by hundreds of parents, and the hundreds of kids would eventually reach voting age. like Mary Hannafin probably got votes from almost anyone who ever had anything to do with Sion Hill in Blackrock

publicans, like JHR would also fit the bill

Lockstep

First of all, being a politician should never, ever be a career. It's a precarious job, subject to the wishes of your employer (your constituents) and isn't a career, it's a vocation more than anything. You'll get crap from every possible direction (cranks love giving out to politicians) and you need to be polite, respectful and courteous no matter how rude someone is.
This isn't a job for most people, I've frequently seen people get involved with dreams of being an elected official and quickly drop out after seeing how much work is involved.
Best place to start is community work, get your name known. Go for your town/city council and work from there. It's a long slog though. Joining a political party really helps but you'll be there for a while before they'll consider running you, both as there will be established people seeking nomination plus they'll want to make sure you won't embarress the party.

There's a whole load of other jobs in politics though, both as employees (assistants, policy analysts, speechwriters etc) and as freelancers (political consultants, PR specialists, legal advisors etc)

Biggins

kickoutthejams wrote: »

First of all, being a politician should never, ever be a career. It's a precarious job, subject to the wishes of your employer (your constituents) and isn't a career, it's a vocation more than anything.

That to me is the most important bit of kickoutthejams post.
The founding fathers (and some mothers too lest we forget) didn't jump into their political positions just to fill a career role, they did so with the firm noble idea that they thought they could contribute to the betterment of the state.

Politics shouldn't be just a job, it should be a calling.
When it just become the former and not the latter, then nobility tends to slip away I feel and abuses of just "job positions" start to creep in.
Those who are more nobler in mind, usually are found to be more nobler in action I suspect!

ISAW

jonesy93 wrote: »

Hello,
Just wondering how would someone get started in politics. What degrees etc would help. What work prior to entering would help and how would one join a party, run in an election, and take their seat in the dail if succesful.
Also, can somone make a career of politics if they are not elected into the dail or seanad? If so how?
Thank you,

Most people involved in politics are not elected. they are appointed. There are well over 1000 ministerial appointments to different posts nationally. Some of then pay some don't.
Only 166TDs are elected ( on about 100k plus expenses - excluding Ministers) and 60 or so senators ( on about 60k plus expenses)

You will need about 4000 votes to get elected nationally. that is not easy.
Councillors are on about 30 k expenses and you will need about 1000 votes as a base.

You can double the votes for a "safe seat"

If you have ever been involved in the GAA residents association or local club you may know what running for election and getting votes is about. You will need at least about ten people who will give op a day a week to go knocking on doors with you. You will need to spend all your spare time going to meetings and knocking on doors.

If you haven't don't look on it as a career.



You can count one or two evenings a week to party organisations. Depending on your party there will be from one to hundreds of units in your constituency plus a regional and national group. They will all meet at least monthly. If you add in residents groups, sports groups, social events e.g. dinner dances or charity fundraisers, the odd crisis e.g. flooding a local fire, deaths and funerals, family problems ( e.g. family member in prison and you have to visit him) you will have no problem filling up your "non working" hours.

You can also count at least a day for surgery where you meet constituents. Maybe you can get one of your ten trusted people to do this but mostly people will want to meet you personally. During the long summer breaks you can get more of the above done as party meetings won't be happening.

Oh and some of your trusted people may want to get some of the appointments so be prepared for a lot of horse trading. Same goes for legislation.


As for a career ,I am assuming you didn't only mean elected politics. Do a business management or language degree and get on every possible committee in college for experience and networking. A labour organisation degree qualification can also be handy if you want to fit in in trade unionism. You can work on getting a semi state ( unempolyment group or representative of minorities ) or union job for life in the 100k plus bracket where you will never have to get re elected. If you have the network connections apply for a paid job with someone you have established connections. It used to be "party people" with a party pedigree and a believer in their policies got employed by parties but now it is more professionals and managers and parties are run like businesses and managed rather than run like movements and inspired to have vision. They may even employ you if you worked with a rival party. There are a plethora of political related jobs in the EU but remember three languages are required. Irish is an official language by the way.
One politician one said to me
"In the end it is all about people"
The cynical version of this is "who you know not what you know"

ISAW

The-Rigger wrote: »

Teacher. Most of them seem to be teachers for some bizarre reason.

Know parents and wide contact with community. Long summer break where you can work on building up votes.

Cannibal Ox

jonesy93 wrote:

Also, can somone make a career of politics if they are not elected into the dail or seanad? If so how?

Advocacy, policy, communications, etc, etc within an organisation. There's a whole host of NGOs and think tanks that work within politics for (normally) specific change in specific areas. It's probably a little less dirtier then party politics and normally you'd end up working within an area that you really care about and want change in.

If you want to go down that route in university, economics, politics, social policy, law, basically any of the social sciences with a constant focus on a specific area (so health, employment, immigration, education, etc).

In terms of work, you'd want to pile on the volunteer and intern experience while in college to give yourself the best chance of getting a job after your degree. Internships after graduation are a modern form of slavery so you want to get as much prior experience as possible to at least get a minimum wage internship after graduation.

It's a pretty competitive world, you would (ideally) want to get experience out there in the great big wide world for a couple of years. It is scarey out there though, with Harvard, Oxford and Cambridge graduates with very long CVs and impressive bank accounts. Which isn't insurmountable competition, just means you need a "plan" and take every possible opportunity that comes your way.

mikemac

Yeah, as said we do have a lot of these threads these days and it's great that people are willing to put themselves forward.

Next local elections in 2014 are what to aim at and realy now is the time to get organized and get yourself out there. Not a few months before the elections when it's too late

And even if you join a party and do trojan work and establish yourself don't be shocked to get passed over by the son or daughter of some party big whig. It happens, selection committees are cut throat and there are winners and there are losers at the end of it

I'm repeating a lot of what's said already, it's a good thread

ninty9er

the groutch wrote: »

a general election campaign can be very expensive without the financial backing of a political party, and 2 months to run a campaign from scratch is nigh-on impossible.

None of the mainstream parties provide financial backing for individual candidates.

Permabear

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lunar.wire

kickoutthejams wrote: »

It's a precarious job, subject to the wishes of your employer (your constituents) and isn't a career, it's a vocation more than anything.

Ideally.
Of course the massive pension & perks if you make it to minister doesn't hurt.
Also, luckily we don't pay our politicians peanuts otherwise we'd get ....... hmmm?

As we've seen, if you've got a majority government it doesn't matter how incompetent your employer thinks you are, or how many woefully bad mistakes you make, your employer has to wait two or three years before being able to fire you.

If the politicians in gov really had a sense of service to the people they would have left by now..... that would have been an actual "tough decision"

PeterIanStaker

be born the son of a politician?

later12

donegalfella wrote: »

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Is anyone else really sick of this? Most of the cabinet are not the offspring of TDs, nor are the vast majority of deputies in Leinster house. Micheál Martin is the son of a bus driver, Eamon Ryan is the son of a banker, Mary Harney comes from farmers.... this is the sort of background that most people in Leinster House and Seanad Eireann come from. In some cases, like Enda Kenny's case or Brian Cowen's case, the politician may be the son of a former politician. But I studied for the same degree as my father studied and I would challenge anybody to show me any profession in which a considerable number of practitioners have not followed in their fathers footsteps, simply because of early exposure or genetic and familial trend if nothing else.

Many come from a subset of professions (teachers, solicitors/barristers, farmers, publicans) that represent the traditional vested interests of Irish life.

You could probably say the same for any political democracy, people who aspire to political careers tend to be middle class and these happen to be just another set of very middle class Irish careers.

Permabear

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later12

donegalfella wrote: »

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Direct descendents? you're including grandchildren? Come on. And no, I would neither regard that as suprising nor excessive. All were democratically elected and it is completely in keeping with other professions to have offspring follow in the footprints of their parents. It's also worth noting that the wider representation of political offspring is proportionally smaller generally within the Dáil and within the oireachtas overall.

Permabear

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later12

donegalfella wrote: »

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Of course it was a genetic accident, although without being too pedantic, presumably what you mean to ask is whether his was an accidental political career.

And actually I would say that although he must have, inevitably, as we all do, taken due influence from his immediate ancestors, this does not mean in any way that his genetic make up is responsible for his career. Incidentally, one grandmother was a very capable showjumper and event rider and more than a few of the family line also follow in this pursuit, is that nepotism?

the groutch

ninty9er wrote: »

None of the mainstream parties provide financial backing for individual candidates.

so then what are FG spending their €3m campaign fund on then?

Permabear

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dermot_sheehan

Politics should not and ought not be a career.

One should not be in it for powers sake, but because one passionately believes in an idea and feels that they can convince their fellow citizens to elect them.

It should be a vocation, you never hear of anyone becoming a priest as a career.

In Ireland, unfortunately politics is quite local, gombeen and lacking in principles or ideas.

Hopefully that will change somewhat in the upcoming election.

Lockstep

donegalfella wrote: »

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In fairness, Ó Cuív is extremely popular in my neck of the woods. He's voted in as he's percieved to be someone who fights for the interests of the Irish speakers and gets investment for the area. Lemass wasn't very popular out here (his modernisation was seen as ignoring rural areas, especially Conamara) whereas Ó Cuív has a huge personal vote.

Bottle_of_Smoke

donegalfella wrote: »

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A certain amount of that is gonna be correlation rather than causation.

Like if you have a father or grandfather who was a TD of course you're going to be more likely to be interested in politics and therefore be more likely to try and get elected.

zig

regarding the topic of families, I just came across this
says it all really
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Families_in_the_Oireachtas

Permabear

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Lockstep

donegalfella wrote: »

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I'd say his breaking into politics came from his work in the Gaelthact Co-Op rather than his ancestry, especially as these previous politicians were Dublin based.

later12

donegalfella wrote: »

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That doesn't make any sense. Presuming that you meant to type 'concede', you mean to suggest that unless I can disprove your theory, I am wrong? What sort of an argument is that? Your theory is entirely unprovable (in its favour and in dissent) without the ability to account for voter motivation in any real way, the question largely boils down to personal opinion or attempts at educated guesswork.

O'Cuiv is generationally far removed from De Valera; he first became a TD 17 years after the death of his grandfather (incidentally, not without considerable electoral failure along the way) and even longer after his grandfather ceased to be politically relevant - it had been about thirty years since DeValera stepped down as Taoiseach when O'Cuiv first entered national politics in 1989.

While it is plausible that his relationship to Eamon De Valera inspired voter confidence, one must find it even more plausible that the real motivation in question was that the relationship may have motivated O'Cuiv towards a political career in the first place. Considerably so in light of the fact that it was not until O'Cuiv was significantly politically experienced that he was appointed to the national legislature.

If political relationships are so all important, why are none of his direct relations in politics? Or none of DeValera's closer relations, including those who still bear the family name? And why, if your theory is correct, did O'Cuiv stumble so much in the beginning of his political career?

These factors, in my opinion, detract significantly from your case.

According to the How Ireland Voted series of books (latest volume edited by Michael Gallagher and Michael Marsh) nearly 1 in 5 of our TDs bears some relation to a current or former TD. If you don't see this as a sign of a system that is parochial and nepotistic, fair enough.

Nearly 1 in 5, right, so less than 20%. I wonder how equivalent figures would stack up against Doctors, jockeys, school teachers and other professionals?

pigeonbutler

I'm not a fan of the constant complaining about "Nepotism" in Irish politics. Nepotism would be a TD appointing a relative to a job that the TD had in his gift.

People who are sons/daughters of current or former politicians being elected by the people of a town, county or Dáil constituency is not Nepotism. Yes it is the case that quite often people with a family name in politics gain an electoral advantage from it. The only reason that happens though is through the choice of the people. They have had opportunities every 4-5 years to elect or reject Brian Cowen, Brian Lenihan, Mary Coughlan, Mary Hanafin and every other TD but they've chosen to elect them.

If you're anti-democracy, then come out and say so. Yes, the electorate often make bad choices. That's life. But how else should we choose our politicians?

Permabear

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Permabear

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pigeonbutler

donegalfella wrote: »

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People can do any of the following:

a) Run as Independents
b) Set up their own party
c) Recruit more supporters of theirs to whatever party they want to be on the ticket of in order to win a convention

Family members aren't selected because of nepotism. They're usually selected because they've the best chance of getting elected.

As another poster as said, if you surveyed the number of Doctors, Barristers, Soldiers, Gardaí, Train drivers, teachers, whatever - you pick 'em - who are following their fathers or mothers footsteps you'll find numbers not all that different to politics.

pigeonbutler

donegalfella wrote: »

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He's there because the people of Galway West chose to put him there. in 2007 the people of that constituency had a choice of 13 candidates (including 2 other FF). They chose to give Eamonn O'Cuiv more votes than anybody else (9,645 - next nearest was only less than 2/3 of that at 6,086).

If people voted like that because he's Dev's grandson, then that's their democratic right. It may be a pretty stupid criteria to use, but it's their right to decide however they wish.

Lockstep

donegalfella wrote: »

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It was probably a motivating factor in why he got involved in politics (in the same way that the kids from a family of lawyers will be motivated to become lawyers).
However, you'd need to show more evidence if you want to claim there's a link between his election history and his connection to Lemass.

The Lemass dynasty is concentrated in Dublin whereas Ó Cuív is voted in Galway West (his voting base is Conamara).
If we were talking about the likes of Beverly Cooper-Flynn (who ran in the same region as her father) you might have a point but you'd be hard pressed to find more contrasting places in Ireland than Conamara and Dublin.

Permabear

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later12

As far as I am aware there are 27 children of former TDs (or senators) currently holding public office. That amounts to about 16% of TDs. Hardly earth shattering.

In other words, 84% of TDs in office are the children of shopkeepers, doctors, dentists, farmers, bus drivers, and so on.

While it might be possible to argue that being the son or the daughter of a TD or Senator, therefore, can be advantageous to one's political career, it is not really possible to argue that such relationships are even a remote pre-requisite to political success more generally.

If it were such a serious factor, one would certainly have to ask the question why it is 16% and not, say twice or three times that.

Lockstep

Permabear wrote: »

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My apologies, typing error. Meant to write Dev and not Lemass.

As for his name's 'powerful resonance', he started out doing poorly in his political career. It was only after going onto the Senate and Local election route that he got into the Dáil.

Permabear wrote: »

Ireland is riddled with political dynasties. We have a system that, without a shade of doubt, favors insiders over outsiders. If Joe Bloggs is seeking a nomination but has no family connections to the party, he has to compete with Jane Enright whose family has long-established party affiliations. When the nomination is announced, it's hardly a surprise who will get it.

I'm unsure as to the internal nominations procedure for Fianna Fáil but in Labour and Fine Gael, it is the local branch that democratically chooses it's nominees. If FF runs the same way, Someone with a reputation for protecting Conamara wouldn't see much trouble being nominated.

Permabear wrote: »

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Mainly as your entire logic is "He's Dev's grandson, therefore he found it easy to get into politics'. At a time when FF support is melting across the country, Ó Cuív is still extremely popular. To be honest, I didn't even know he was Dev's grandson before this thread. I don't like Ó Cuív at all but he's extremely popular in Conamara. The reason being that he's seen as someone who delivers for the region and who cares about the people. Or such is his reputation over here.

13spanner

Judging by recent developments in the irish political parties, it looks like ''who you know'' more than ''what you know'' gets you into the big jobs :rolleyes: . But I suppose get your name around locally first with community work and after that I dunno...

motherriley

13spanner wrote: »

Judging by recent developments in the irish political parties, it looks like ''who you know'' more than ''what you know'' gets you into the big jobs :rolleyes: . But I suppose get your name around locally first with community work and after that I dunno...

You mean that you want to get on the gravy train. Why not become a MEP now that really is a gravy train without a doubt.:rolleyes: