BEng the new BA?

Information Seeker · 10-01-2011 05:12PM

dan_d wrote: »

Swap your 4 years design experience for my 5 years site experience (!!):D

I'd be fairly interested in getting into that side of engineering, however 5 years on site renders your design skills at that of a graduate, making it even harder to get a job.And returning to site is not an option for me.

Best of luck Lu Tze. Much as I complain about site work, I've had some great times there - it's a working environment like no other! As for the rest of us, we'll struggle on!

(now I've totally derailed the thread, I'll wander off....)

I agree that there is a level of ignorance in Irish society at what it is that engineers do, as well as other engineering & construction professions.
I also think that there is no respect for people who have qualifications and/or experience in specific areas of engineering & construction, and that people with such qualifications and/or experience are branded "same as the rest".

Irish_Elect_Eng · 30-01-2011 09:06PM

Information Seeker wrote: »

I agree that there is a level of ignorance in Irish society at what it is that engineers do, as well as other engineering & construction professions.
I also think that there is no respect for people who have qualifications and/or experience in specific areas of engineering & construction, and that people with such qualifications and/or experience are branded "same as the rest".

I agree that the "Engineer" title is not well understood or protected.

So to avoid confusion I let people know what I do when they ask, "I am a Principal Engineer, I design Life Support Equipment for a Medical Device Company" I have never had anyone look down on my career, but even if they did I don't need their validation, I know that I make a difference to peoples lives everyday.

Pride in what you do sets peoples attitudes to the career that you have chosen, so the next time someone asks what you do, tell them with pride, tell them the value that you add to society, and that goes for a BA as much as a BEng.

In a country that has long prided ourselves on our love of knowledge and learning I cannot understand how we can look down on any qualification. People take many different career paths for many different reasons, but we need that variety, for mono cultures all inevitably fail.

I chose my career because Engineering spoke to me, I did not have a single arts, business or even science course on my CAO form all those years ago, and if I was to fill it in again today I would chose engineering again. But I equally respect those that fill in their forms for all the myriad of other reasons. I hope that they are as happy sitting down in front of their desks as I am each morning.

It has never been the "piece of paper" / Qualification that has made the Engineer, Artist or Businessman Great, it is the person themselves, through hard work, skill, and maybe some luck or good timing that has made their career.

Meter · 14-02-2011 12:37AM

dan_d wrote: »

Hang on a second here lads.

Ireland, as I said before, has no concept of what engineers do. In many other countries, engineers have far more respect, but equally, far more demanding standards on their qualifications. In several European countries, the title "Ingenieur" or "engineer" is used the same way as the title "doctor". Your business card says "Ing. Dan_d". In Canada, you cannot call yourself an engineer until you have taken their "Professional" exams, (equivalent to our chartership), upon which you get a stamp with your name on it, and a ring - even if your qualification is a BEng, or equivalent.In Spain, engineering is one of the toughest courses to get into in college and even tougher to finish out. In Russia, it takes 5 years (and experience) before you are awarded your basic engineering qualification.

For me, the bottom line is that if I were to fill out my CAO again, I'd still put the same choice down. I think we as a profession, particularly here in Ireland, do ourselves no favours. We do not speak out strongly enough in defence or promotion of our profession. We need to create a stronger system of grading engineers than simply the chartership, due to the fact that there are so many people out there who don't have the level8 qualification, but who do have years of valuable experience.We definitely need to make people more aware of what we do, and to call for the title "engineer" to be regulated. But to simply say "you don't make enough money out of it", is writing off a degree that is versatile, solid, gives you many many options as a career path and will stand to you wherever you go.

............. For Irish engineers however, the problem is not the degree, the problem is the general level of ignorance in Irish society at what it is that engineers do and the total and complete lack of regulation of the use of the title.

Hi all,
Since I came in Ireland six month ago I have noticed how worthless is considered the title and the work of an engineer. Coming from a country were the profession of engineer is strongly regulated, I found strange hearing the plumber and the guy who fixes the water dispenser call themselves as 'engineers'. Even though they have no degree in engineering, but just 15 years experience in the field.

I agree with dan_d. In Spain or Germany for example, engineering degree is long way to go and a good student leaves the university around his 25-26..... provided that he is strong enough to reach the end

Therefore, engineers are socially considered of great respect and able to take important roles in the society straight after the degree, which last 'nominal' of 5 years.

I lived in several EU countries and I have never heard about the title of Chartered Engineer prior to meet with EI.
Is there any reason why 'Chartered Engineer' is a protected title and 'Engineer' is not? Is it the same for other professions? Is there a title for Chartered Architect, Chartered Nurse, Chartered Dentist,etc.?
What does Chartered mean?

Why BEng (3-4 years degree) is the standard academic requirements for graduate engineers instead of 5 years master degree as in the overall Europe? Would be not better and in line with the rest of european countries to extend to 5 years MEng level the lower academic background?

Cheers,

dan_d · 14-02-2011 04:42PM

My brief knowledge is that BEng was a four year degree, however it's being changed to a 5 year, with a Masters qualification at the end, in line with Europe.Now I only am aware of this happening in UCD (University College Dublin) - does anyone else know if the other universities are following suit?

As for the title of Chartered - it used to be open to only those who had a degree in engineering, but now it has been opened to those with various different qualifications - ie, level 6,7,8, through various different routes. I don't think the title is "protected" as such - is it? (Someone from engineers ireland lurks around here, they may be able to answer that question). There are "chartered" architects. And I suppose - dentists/nurses etc....you just don't call yourself one unless you are one. Personally I think it all ties back to the general level of ignorance among Irish people at what engineers do...they haven't a clue, so they think it's ok to use the title because "sure, isn't it something like this". Whereas they all know exactly what nurses and dentists and architects do, so are less likely to call themselves one.

Anyway, that's my take, I'm sure there will be others with better answers.

Darren1o1 · 14-02-2011 05:29PM

dan_d wrote: »

My brief knowledge is that BEng was a four year degree, however it's being changed to a 5 year, with a Masters qualification at the end, in line with Europe.Now I only am aware of this happening in UCD (University College Dublin) - does anyone else know if the other universities are following suit?

As for the title of Chartered - it used to be open to only those who had a degree in engineering, but now it has been opened to those with various different qualifications - ie, level 6,7,8, through various different routes. I don't think the title is "protected" as such - is it? (Someone from engineers ireland lurks around here, they may be able to answer that question). There are "chartered" architects. And I suppose - dentists/nurses etc....you just don't call yourself one unless you are one. Personally I think it all ties back to the general level of ignorance among Irish people at what engineers do...they haven't a clue, so they think it's ok to use the title because "sure, isn't it something like this". Whereas they all know exactly what nurses and dentists and architects do, so are less likely to call themselves one.

Anyway, that's my take, I'm sure there will be others with better answers.

All Programs which we accredited at level 8 are moving to create level 9 programs, as this will be the new minimum. DCU with the CAMME (Computer aided Mechanical and Manufacturing Engineering) program accredited for C.Eng. became the first to fulfill this. Some are continuing with level 8 +1yr for level 9 others (like UCD) are doing a 3+2 program. Hope this helps!

bnt · 14-02-2011 06:26PM

The title "Chartered" is definitely protected in Ireland, under the provisions of the Institution of Civil Engineers of Ireland (Charter Amendment) Act, 1969, Clauses 6 & 7. Anyone who calls themselves Chartered has to meet the statutory requirements.

As for the 5-year Master's requirement for Chartership, Engineers Ireland is making that compulsory from 2013. So it won't really matter whether the 5 years are tackled as 4+1 or 3+2, though the Bologna Process favours the 3+2 route, since not everyone needs to go all the way to Master's. The issue in Ireland is funding for Master's tuition, since the current setup only provides for four years free Undergraduate tuition, so if you're doing a 3+2 programme, getting the first Master's year funded (at UCD at least) requires a bit of a bodge.

BEng the new BA?

Comments