Its official : public sector pay per hour is 49% higher than private sector

fliball123 · 06-01-2011 06:43PM

kaiser sauze wrote: »

I'm not ignoring, or ignorant, of the figures.

I am merely saying that whatever government is in power will do their damnedest to assuage The Unions, even if the pushes the rest of the country into a downward spiral and penury. Succesive governments have not learned that this small bunch are unrepresentative of the country as a whole and I see no sea change in mood from FG/Lab over this.

True but the difference here is that the current gov and future govs have a weekly report to the IMF and a 3 monthly full review. Now these guys will not give a flying sh1t what any Union wants and its the first time that a gov can actually turn around say our hands our tied we have to bow to these guys as they are paying the wage bill and FG actually have the will to try and cut a lot of the sh1t and wage of the p.s and the quangos and they will definately make up some part of the next gov...

kaiser sauze · 06-01-2011 06:54PM

fliball123 wrote: »

True but the difference here is that the current gov and future govs have a weekly report to the IMF and a 3 monthly full review. Now these guys will not give a flying sh1t what any Union wants and its the first time that a gov can actually turn around say our hands our tied we have to bow to these guys as they are paying the wage bill and FG actually have the will to try and cut a lot of the sh1t and wage of the p.s and the quangos and they will definately make up some part of the next gov...

If a 30,000 reduction in numbers is what you would call cutting "a lot of sh1t", I call that half-hearted.

fliball123 · 06-01-2011 06:57PM

kaiser sauze wrote: »

If a 30,000 reduction in numbers is what you would call cutting "a lot of sh1t", I call that half-hearted.

No I dont agree with cutting numbers public services are already in deep sh1t and any cuts in numbers either by redunacy or natural wastage just shfts the expense to the socail welfare and penions respectively..No p.s core pay needs to be tackled

kaiser sauze · 06-01-2011 07:10PM

fliball123 wrote: »

No I dont agree with cutting numbers public services are already in deep sh1t and any cuts in numbers either by redunacy or natural wastage just shfts the expense to the socail welfare and penions respectively..No p.s core pay needs to be tackled

Yep, agreed.

And this needs to be targeted to those on higher salaries specifically.

ardmacha · 06-01-2011 07:33PM

why if taxes are raised why has the income tax take gone down??

Bacause economic activity went down, for reasons which had nothing to do with income tax. It is not rocket science! I turned on more radiators in my house in December than I had in November. Yet my house was still colder in December, but I do not consequently believe that that it is pointless to turn on a radiator, I realise that the effect of my actions with the radiator are in the context of the overall environment.

No p.s core pay needs to be tackled

I am not sure that I agree that no PS core pay should be looked at, odd that you do.

ChowChow · 06-01-2011 09:44PM

noodler wrote: »

Asking for the Public Sector, as a whole to pay for their pensions isn't really a pay cut.

Under the new National Pensions Framework, the Gove aims to be everybody ino a contributory scheme unless they specifically opt-out - it would be very hard to call that a paycut - isn't disappearing into thin air.

Excuse me, lets get real here. The National Pension Reserve Fund (NPRF) is no more or will shortly be no more as it is being used to bailout the banks. The original purpose of the NPRF was to pay for social welfare and public service pensions from the year 2025 onwards. Anyone who thinks there will be such a fund in place by then has been smoking the funny stuff. So yes, the pension levy (and indeeed PRSI contribs) is in fact a pay cut, nothing less. There will be no dole, no pension, no dental benefits nada - the banks have got the lot. People need to start making provisions now.

The_Thing · 06-01-2011 09:54PM

ChowChow wrote: »

Excuse me, lets get real here. The National Pension Reserve Fund (NPRF) is no more or will shortly be no more as it is being used to bailout the banks. The original purpose of the NPRF was to pay for social welfare and public service pensions from the year 2025 onwards. Anyone who thinks there will be such a fund in place by then has been smoking the funny stuff. So yes, the pension levy (and indeeed PRSI contribs) is in fact a pay cut, nothing less. There will be no dole, no pension, no dental benefits nada - the banks have got the lot. People need to start making provisions now.

I agree with you 100%

That is why I have previously stated that I am going to milk the system for every last cent for as long as I can. The way I see it I must make hay while the sun shines.

After that when the money is gone I will return to my farming on a full-time basis.

galway2007 · 06-01-2011 10:37PM

martian1980 wrote: »

why introduce facts to the debate? A lot of the PS attackers here post as if they're in the after hours forum anyway

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

galway2007 · 06-01-2011 10:45PM

fliball123 wrote: »

True but the difference here is that the current gov and future govs have a weekly report to the IMF and a 3 monthly full review. Now these guys will not give a flying sh1t what any Union wants and its the first time that a gov can actually turn around say our hands our tied we have to bow to these guys as they are paying the wage bill and FG actually have the will to try and cut a lot of the sh1t and wage of the p.s and the quangos and they will definately make up some part of the next gov...

yes and remember they wont give a **** either if you are down in a+e dying on a trolleys and because staff moral is so low that they don’t give a **** and the queue for the trolleys is out the door as 100k more people can pay the vhi so they have to use the public health service who have very few staff due to the recruitment ban
Time to call the undertake if you get sick that is if you can afford to die as the IMF wont give a ****

galway2007 · 06-01-2011 11:00PM

James Reilly TD Deputy Leader & Health & Children FG said on the last word that he would solve the trolly problem in the hospitals by opening all the closed beds and employ agency staff
Dose this idiot not even know that a agency nurse cost twice the cost of a public sector nurse
We really are ****ed if the likes of him are taking over the country

noodler · 06-01-2011 11:43PM

ChowChow wrote: »

Excuse me, lets get real here. The National Pension Reserve Fund (NPRF) is no more or will shortly be no more as it is being used to bailout the banks. The original purpose of the NPRF was to pay for social welfare and public service pensions from the year 2025 onwards. Anyone who thinks there will be such a fund in place by then has been smoking the funny stuff. So yes, the pension levy (and indeeed PRSI contthribs) is in fact a pay cut, nothing less. There will be no dole, no pension, no dental benefits nada - the banks have got the lot. People need to start making provisions now.

Don't put dole or social welfare in the same bracket as public sector pensions.

The SIF, without being too soothsayer-like here, won't take until 2025 to get back in the black.

Gumbo · 07-01-2011 12:02AM

noodler wrote: »

Don't put dole or social welfare in the same bracket as public sector pensions.

My PRSI contributions entitle me to my state pension of 12k odd per year.
My PS pension contributions of 309 per month cover the remaining €6,969 per year.

Obviously based on 40 years service but I will have contributed more than enough to cover my pension. I don't see how this constant posting of "my taxes pay your pension" holds weight.

RGS · 07-01-2011 12:03AM

The penion levy is a pay cut. My daughter starts a nine month contract with the HSE as a pre registered nurse today. She is not entitled to include this nine months for pension purposes yet she will pay the pension levy.

During her student years she worked as a HCA, paid the pension levy and is not entitled to include this service for pension purposes.

The levy is a pay cut, i know the PS Bashers will disagree but they entitled to there opinion as are those who argued the levy is a pay cut.

avoidspammers · 07-01-2011 12:20AM

The_Thing wrote: »

I agree with you 100%

That is why I have previously stated that I am going to milk the system for every last cent for as long as I can. The way I see it I must make hay while the sun shines.

After that when the money is gone I will return to my farming on a full-time basis.

Thing..have you reduced the min wage of your farmhands as per most recent budget? You should ensure that you are on at least 49% more.
Av Sp

noodler · 07-01-2011 12:33AM

kceire wrote: »

My PRSI contributions entitle me to my state pension of 12k odd per year.
My PS pension contributions of 309 per month cover the remaining €6,969 per year.

Obviously based on 40 years service but I will have contributed more than enough to cover my pension. I don't see how this constant posting of "my taxes pay your pension" holds weight.

Is that the fourth or fifth time you have had to mention that?

Do you feel you are representative of the system? Do you actually think, on a whole, the Government is making a profit on it?

noodler · 07-01-2011 12:34AM

RGS wrote: »

The penion levy is a pay cut. My daughter starts a nine month contract with the HSE as a pre registered nurse today. She is not entitled to include this nine months for pension purposes yet she will pay the pension levy.

During her student years she worked as a HCA, paid the pension levy and is not entitled to include this service for pension purposes.

The levy is a pay cut, i know the PS Bashers will disagree but they entitled to there opinion as are those who argued the levy is a pay cut.

That seems grossly unfair alright.

noodler · 07-01-2011 12:40AM

kceire wrote: »

My PRSI contributions entitle me to my state pension of 12k odd per year.
My PS pension contributions of 309 per month cover the remaining €6,969 per year.

Obviously based on 40 years service but I will have contributed more than enough to cover my pension. I don't see how this constant posting of "my taxes pay your pension" holds weight.

Also, before the levy, you paid how much for that extra €6,969 per year?

Assuming 20 years after you retire: 20 X 7K = €140,000.

avoidspammers · 07-01-2011 12:45AM

noodler wrote: »

Explain how?

Av. Sp.

The explanation is evident in the fabric of your recent posts. Need I really expand on this?

Gumbo · 07-01-2011 01:06AM

noodler wrote: »

Also, before the levy, you paid how much for that extra €6,969 per year?

Assuming 20 years after you retire: 20 X 7K = €140,000.

Your assuming I will live until 88.
IIRC the average life expectancy of a Worker retiring at 65 was 13 years, but with the increased age of retirement now raised, that figure will drop accordingly.

Gumbo · 07-01-2011 01:11AM

noodler wrote: »

Is that the fourth or fifth time you have had to mention that?

Do you feel you are representative of the system? Do you actually think, on a whole, the Government is making a profit on it?

And still nobody listens to actual factual figures, they go on Posting more stuff they have heard down the pub or picked up from another ill informed poster on here.

Pensions should be looked at in the PS and policital sectors but a blanket cut is grossly unfair to the staff that actualy contribute their full entitlements.

If I opened a private pension and contributed 309 per month to it I would have approx 50% more in my fund as my PRSA from my private sector days has increased by quite Alice if I'm honest.

Somebody posted an excel sheet on here many moons ago that showed that PS workers up to approx 45k over contribute to their pension funds.

fliball123 · 07-01-2011 10:35AM

ardmacha wrote: »

Bacause economic activity went down, for reasons which had nothing to do with income tax. It is not rocket science! I turned on more radiators in my house in December than I had in November. Yet my house was still colder in December, but I do not consequently believe that that it is pointless to turn on a radiator, I realise that the effect of my actions with the radiator are in the context of the overall environment.

I am not sure that I agree that no PS core pay should be looked at, odd that you do.

yeah well thank god your not a rocket scientist...Income tax is tax on income and has nothing else to do with the economy and the only way it can be down is by people paying less tax on their income and yet the budget of 2009 increased the amount of income tax paid by all working people..

Therefore my rocket Scientist friend it means either people wage have been cut or people have lost their jobs or people have emigrated..

As stated if more and more people are signing on...It means people who have been working are either emigrating or losing their job...

Did you work on Apollo 13 by any chance

fliball123 · 07-01-2011 10:38AM

galway2007 wrote: »

yes and remember they wont give a **** either if you are down in a+e dying on a trolleys and because staff moral is so low that they don’t give a **** and the queue for the trolleys is out the door as 100k more people can pay the vhi so they have to use the public health service who have very few staff due to the recruitment ban
Time to call the undertake if you get sick that is if you can afford to die as the IMF wont give a ****

And isnt this the truth of it.. Why am I paying taxes for such a ****e system its third world...and yet nurses and doctors are still one of the best paid in the world...let them fcuk off to other countries and get all the philipino girls in again....Sorry but its dissapointing to think that the p.s would be of low moral...Let them tell that to the 5k+ who signed on in December just in time for xmas...

fliball123 · 07-01-2011 10:43AM

kceire wrote: »

And still nobody listens to actual factual figures, they go on Posting more stuff they have heard down the pub or picked up from another ill informed poster on here.

Pensions should be looked at in the PS and policital sectors but a blanket cut is grossly unfair to the staff that actualy contribute their full entitlements.

If I opened a private pension and contributed 309 per month to it I would have approx 50% more in my fund as my PRSA from my private sector days has increased by quite Alice if I'm honest.

Somebody posted an excel sheet on here many moons ago that showed that PS workers up to approx 45k over contribute to their pension funds.

I dont think anyone would begrudge people in your situation but what about guards who can retire at an early age with a big penions pot...what about TDs and senior civil servants...

The main problem is that ps all get mashed in together...I am a major ps basher and want your core pay cut but at staggered levels...Ie anything up to 30k leave well alone anything after that cut away...Same should be applied to pensions...I dont think anyone in the gen public want the people on the lower wage hit too much. Just a bit of common sense really

RobbieTheRobber · 07-01-2011 03:04PM

noodler wrote: »

Also, before the levy, you paid how much for that extra €6,969 per year?

Assuming 20 years after you retire: 20 X 7K = €140,000.

20 years of pensions for a male in the Ps would be very generous seeing as retirement age is 65 and average life expectancy is 76.8 for a male in ireland. So 11.8 years of pensions.

And for a female average life expectancy is 81.6 so just over 16 years of pension on average.

so your calculations for twenty years of pension benefits are really kind of absurd!
Wouldnt you say?

RobbieTheRobber · 07-01-2011 03:06PM

fliball123 wrote: »

And isnt this the truth of it.. Why am I paying taxes for such a ****e system its third world...and yet nurses and doctors are still one of the best paid in the world...let them fcuk off to other countries and get all the philipino girls in again....Sorry but its dissapointing to think that the p.s would be of low moral...Let them tell that to the 5k+ who signed on in December just in time for xmas...

Have you got stats for that, As far as i know the WHO ranks ireland in the top 20 for medical care. so not third world!
Edit: we are 28 in the last WHO index for health care

And the un ahs our quality of life index in the top ten perhaps but definetly top 20, so again not thrid world!
Edit: we were fifth in the Last UN life quality index
http://www.stocksandshares.tv/norway-tops-un-2010-quality-of-life-index/320892

stats stats stats?
Facts or your your opinion?

fliball123 · 07-01-2011 03:12PM

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Have you got stats for that, As far as i know the WHO ranks ireland in the top 20 for medical care. so not third world!

And the un ahs our quality of life index in the top ten perhaps but definetly top 20, so again not thrid world!

stats stats stats?
Facts or your your opinion?

Facts are that over 500 people were lying in trollys over the xmas and new year not opinion

RobbieTheRobber · 07-01-2011 03:16PM

fliball123 wrote: »

Facts are that over 500 people were lying in trollys over the xmas and new year not opinion

Compare that to a third world country please?

the facts are that the WHO is the world body who deal with health issues and they in their expert opinion rank us as 28 in the world. However you as an armchair analyst assume we are a third world country.
Who do you think i should believe?

fliball123 · 07-01-2011 03:19PM

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Compare that to a third world country please?

Ok maybe third world is a bit extreme but lets compare then what a person in the third world pays in taxes (nothing) and the health care they get to what we pay in taxes and the health care we get

Fact is over 500 people on trollys is unacceptable in any supposed 1st world country

RobbieTheRobber · 07-01-2011 03:26PM

fliball123 wrote: »

Ok maybe third world is a bit extreme but lets compare then what a person in the third world pays in taxes (nothing) and the health care they get to what we pay in taxes and the health care we get

Fact is over 500 people on trollys is unacceptable in any supposed 1st world country

Would you consider the united states of america a first, second or third world country?

I also believe norway and finland are usually top or near the top of the WHO stats for health and the UN stats for quality of life.

Is their personal rate of tax higher or lower than ours?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_of_Europe

fliball123 · 07-01-2011 03:29PM

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Would you consider the united states of america a first, second or third world country?

It depends on which state? also the population per hospital in the States is a lot higher than Ireland

Its official : public sector pay per hour is 49% higher than private sector

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