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Its official : public sector pay per hour is 49% higher than private sector

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Comments

  • #542
    RobbieTheRobber
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,212 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    noodler wrote: »
    Lets get Macro on this to avoid harming your sensitivities.

    The PS pay bill is about €16bn annually (rising to over €19bn if you included pensions). We take in €31bn in tax every year. Do you think that the Pay Bill needs to be trimmed? Even in a fairer way than the Government has advocated in Budget 2010.

    So I assume your denying everything that is in my post you quoted?

    Most self proclaimed free speech absolutists are giant big whiny snowflakes!



  • #543
    Riskymove
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,900 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    noodler wrote: »
    Lets get Macro on this to avoid harming your sensitivities.

    The PS pay bill is about €16bn annually (rising to over €19bn if you included pensions).

    those figures are for 2010 I think

    they are also gross figures

    most staff, on maybe 23k to mid 40k would get better results through the private sector.

    as mentioned before,even on this thread,

    a post 1995 entrant who retires at €50k after 40 years work gets state OAP of €12k plus occupational pension of €13k

    they will have contributed 13% for the 13k for up to 47 years

    they will have contributed prsi just like everyone else for the €12k for up to 47 years
    No but I saw a figure there at least 85% of the P.S vote for Fianna Fail now that will have shifted since the last Gen Election...

    thats with the 85% union stalwarts who vote for Labour right?:confused:


  • #544
    RobbieTheRobber
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,212 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    fliball123 wrote: »
    No I am insinuating that we have all had cuts and thet the P.S wage was insulated in the last budget and with the cpa it will continue to be insulated for the next 4/5 bugets unless its torn up.....

    Insulated from what?
    Do the tax band changes not also affect PS staff?

    How were you affected by the last budget?

    Most self proclaimed free speech absolutists are giant big whiny snowflakes!



  • #545
    fliball123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,612 ✭✭✭fliball123


    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    Insulated from what?
    Do the tax band changes not also affect PS staff?

    How were you affected by the last budget?

    By taxes but previous to that I have told you I took nealy 1/4 of a pay decrease in order to stay working over the last 3 years...It does but do you not see the whole picture..

    If you take what comes into the gov ie tax payers money and where it goes...They are taking in more taxes from less people as people are leaving the country in droves both unemployed and employed alike...Where this money goes is on social welfare which has been cut, pensions which have been cut...Public services which have been cut and public sector wages (which this year and for the next few years under the cpa will not be cut)

    I know the P.S are getting the same taxes but for me its where my taxes go and I want to see value for money and I am not seeing it in the p.s at present.


  • #546
    Citizen_Cutback
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 232 ✭✭Citizen_Cutback


    noodler wrote: »
    Lets get Macro on this to avoid harming your sensitivities.

    The PS pay bill is about €16bn annually (rising to over €19bn if you included pensions). We take in €31bn in tax every year. Do you think that the Pay Bill needs to be trimmed? Even in a fairer way than the Government has advocated in Budget 2010.

    As has been already explained in this thread Public Sector Pensions (as are PRSI Contributory State Pensions) are operated on a pay-as-you-go basis.

    Therefore your figure above of €19bn for Public Sector pay and pensions is incorrect considering that Public Servants current pension deductions are in effect paid out to current pensioners with an approximate cost to the Exchequer of €16.8bn in total because of a shortfall of contributions in relation to payments. Your €19bn figure is a creature of double accounting.

    You should also note that Public Sector Pensions will be reduced by approximately 7% in 2011.


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  • #547
    Riskymove
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,900 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    fliball123 wrote: »
    By taxes but previous to that I have told you I took nealy 1/4 of a pay decrease in order to stay working over the last 3 years...It does but do you not see the whole picture..

    I feel for you, but in all seriousness we cannot formulate policy for entire PS based on what has happened to you personally

    some areas of the private sector have been hard hit, others have not
    I know the P.S are getting the same taxes but for me its where my taxes go and I want to see value for money and I am not seeing it in the p.s at present.

    you are overlooking the fact that the pay bill will be reduced through lower numbers of workers, even if there is not another core pay cut

    also, PS workers were hit with more than just the tax band changes, they have had prsi and usc impacts that will not affect the private sector


  • #548
    fliball123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,612 ✭✭✭fliball123


    Riskymove wrote: »
    I feel for you, but in all seriousness we cannot formulate policy for entire PS based on what has happened to you personally

    some areas of the private sector have been hard hit, others have not



    you are overlooking the fact that the pay bill will be reduced through lower numbers of workers, even if there is not another core pay cut

    also, PS workers were hit with more than just the tax band changes, they have had prsi and usc impacts that will not affect the private sector

    True Risky as I said at outset I wish the money was there to sustain the public sector as is...I do believe there are a lot of people worth the money they get but on the flip side there are a lot that don't and they are all tarred with the same brush...If there was a fair way of making people accountable for their actions in there that would be good. but being honest when you hear scandal after scandal of inefficiencies and levels of waste going on in there not to mention the affiliation to the unions who will strike at the jump of a gun (which is why the cpa was put in place IMO) The fact is that the majority I think its between 90 and 95% of the people who have joined the live register in the last 3 year are from the private sector the other % is of P.S contractors who have lost their jobs.

    This fact is completely overlooked by the likes of robbie who will say the umeployed are different set to public/private sector..when in reality they are not they have had near 100% cut and were cut again in the budget..

    As I say I look at this simple like this if you take the current tax take as a pie of say 30 billion

    where that money goes is on pensions, social welfare, public services and public sector pay

    3 out of these 4 have been cut in the last budget and with the CPA 3 out of these 4 will be cut again up until 2015...Can anyone from the p.s defend this..

    I know you guys have taken a cut but why should you be sheltered from more cuts when all other areas of expenditure are cut?


  • #549
    Riskymove
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,900 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    fliball123 wrote: »
    True Risky as I said at outset I wish the money was there to sustain the public sector as is...I do believe there are a lot of people worth the money they get but on the flip side there are a lot that don't and they are all tarred with the same brush...If there was a fair way of making people accountable for their actions in there that would be good. but being honest when you hear scandal after scandal of inefficiencies and levels of waste going on in there not to mention the affiliation to the unions who will strike at the jump of a gun (which is why the cpa was put in place IMO)


    I am all for proper management practice reform, accountability and people being disciplined and fired for under-perfromance

    it would be far better for the long-term than any accross-the-board pay cut which is not going to have any positive effect on performance

    as for union power...funny that that power does not seem to stop the pay cut, levy, USC changes, reduction in funding , reduction in numbers, changes for future entrants, levy on exisiting pensioners etc etc

    3 out of these 4 have been cut in the last budget and with the CPA 3 out of these 4 will be cut again up until 2015...Can anyone from the p.s defend this..

    I know you guys have taken a cut but why should you be sheltered from more cuts when all other areas of expenditure are cut?

    some things have not been cut or have been cut once

    PS has been hit for last few budgets and now the focus is on reducing numbers rather than wages

    the PS cost will continue to be reduced over the next few years, even if not necessarily through core pay reduction (but that may yet happen)


  • #550
    fliball123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,612 ✭✭✭fliball123


    Riskymove wrote: »
    I am all for proper management practice reform, accountability and people being disciplined and fired for under-perfromance

    it would be far better for the long-term than any accross-the-board pay cut which is not going to have any positive effect on performance

    as for union power...funny that that power does not seem to stop the pay cut, levy, USC changes, reduction in funding , reduction in numbers, changes for future entrants, levy on exisiting pensioners etc etc




    some things have not been cut or have been cut once

    PS has been hit for last few budgets and now the focus is on reducing numbers rather than wages

    the PS cost will continue to be reduced over the next few years, even if not necessarily through core pay reduction (but that may yet happen)

    But reduction in numbers in the p.s mean an increase in either the pension bill or the social welfare ...which is why core pay needs to be at the centre of any reform..Look anyone under say 30k should be left alone and it should be scaled upwards I am not heartless but it needs to be tackled and just reducing numbers will not suffice


  • #551
    RobbieTheRobber
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,212 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    fliball123 wrote: »
    True Risky as I said at outset I wish the money was there to sustain the public sector as is...I do believe there are a lot of people worth the money they get but on the flip side there are a lot that don't and they are all tarred with the same brush...If there was a fair way of making people accountable for their actions in there that would be good. but being honest when you hear scandal after scandal of inefficiencies and levels of waste going on in there not to mention the affiliation to the unions who will strike at the jump of a gun (which is why the cpa was put in place IMO) The fact is that the majority I think its between 90 and 95% of the people who have joined the live register in the last 3 year are from the private sector the other % is of P.S contractors who have lost their jobs.

    This fact is completely overlooked by the likes of robbie who will say the umeployed are different set to public/private sector..when in reality they are not they have had near 100% cut and were cut again in the budget..

    As I say I look at this simple like this if you take the current tax take as a pie of say 30 billion

    where that money goes is on pensions, social welfare, public services and public sector pay

    3 out of these 4 have been cut in the last budget and with the CPA 3 out of these 4 will be cut again up until 2015...Can anyone from the p.s defend this..

    I know you guys have taken a cut but why should you be sheltered from more cuts when all other areas of expenditure are cut?

    By reducing numbers you reduce the pay element that makes 4 out 4 in your calculations.
    So all 4 elements of your pie have seen reductions!

    Most self proclaimed free speech absolutists are giant big whiny snowflakes!



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  • #552
    fliball123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,612 ✭✭✭fliball123


    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    By reducing numbers you reduce the pay element that makes 4 out 4 in your calculations.
    So all 4 elements of your pie have seen reductions!

    Yeah but it shifts the payments to either the pension or the social welfare


  • #553
    RobbieTheRobber
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,212 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    fliball123 wrote: »
    But reduction in numbers in the p.s mean an increase in either the pension bill or the social welfare ...which is why core pay needs to be at the centre of any reform..Look anyone under say 30k should be left alone and it should be scaled upwards I am not heartless but it needs to be tackled and just reducing numbers will not suffice

    Huh Im confused!

    In this post http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=69884308&postcount=517 You seem to be championing a proposed cull of numbers in the PS now your trying to say its a bad thing.

    :confused::confused:

    Most self proclaimed free speech absolutists are giant big whiny snowflakes!



  • #554
    RobbieTheRobber
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,212 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    fliball123 wrote: »
    Yeah but it shifts the payments to either the pension or the social welfare

    But Fliball you are the one cheering for the cull in numbers! :confused::confused:

    Most self proclaimed free speech absolutists are giant big whiny snowflakes!



  • #555
    fliball123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,612 ✭✭✭fliball123


    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    Huh Im confused!

    In this post http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=69884308&postcount=517 You seem to be championing a proposed cull of numbers in the PS now your trying to say its a bad thing.

    :confused::confused:

    No I am looking for both but just saying redundancies alone will not cut it (no pun intended) but if I had a choice I would go for wage reduction


  • #556
    RobbieTheRobber
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,212 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    fliball123 wrote: »
    No I am looking for both but just saying redundancies alone will not cut it (no pun intended) but if I had a choice I would go for wage reduction

    now come on a minute ago you said didnt want reductions becasue that just moves the bill elsewhere in the public domain, now your back saying you want it.......... Sort of :confused:

    Wouldnt that just sort of move the problem?

    Most self proclaimed free speech absolutists are giant big whiny snowflakes!



  • #557
    fliball123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,612 ✭✭✭fliball123


    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    But Fliball you are the one cheering for the cull in numbers! :confused::confused:

    Whos cheering?

    Robbie the fact is we cannot afford it...and the cheapest way without a dramatic change in services is a wage reduction


  • #558
    RobbieTheRobber
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,212 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    fliball123 wrote: »
    Whos cheering?

    Robbie the fact is we cannot afford it...and the cheapest way without a dramatic change in services is a wage reduction

    Eh I linked already post 517 in this thread

    here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=69884308&postcount=517

    Most self proclaimed free speech absolutists are giant big whiny snowflakes!



  • #559
    RobbieTheRobber
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,212 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    fliball123 wrote: »
    Whos cheering?

    Robbie the fact is we cannot afford it...and the cheapest way without a dramatic change in services is a wage reduction

    A wage reduction to what, at what point do you feel they should stop?

    Should a person who can show higher earnings outside the PS for doing the same job be cut?
    How would we create a fair system to ensure wages are not just arbitraily cut?

    Should we cut the wages of people who have marketable skills so that they seek employment outside the PS and leave only those with limited skills.

    At what point should PS staff refuse to accept more work(As numbers reduce) for less pay(as wages are continously slashed as is your wish)?

    Most self proclaimed free speech absolutists are giant big whiny snowflakes!



  • #560
    fliball123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,612 ✭✭✭fliball123


    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    A wage reduction to what, at what point do you feel they should stop?

    Should a person who can show higher earnings outside the PS for doing the same job be cut?
    How would we create a fair system to ensure wages are not just arbitraily cut?

    Should we cut the wages of people who have marketable skills so that they seek employment outside the PS and leave only those with limited skills.

    At what point should PS staff refuse to accept more work(As numbers reduce) for less pay(as wages are continously slashed as is your wish)?

    Until we are no longer borrowing to pay for wages/social welfare and for current public services..The point that your missing is my tax does not go to pay anyone in the private sector (bar the bankers) the bankers should also be cut now ...those under state control anyway should be...

    Look Robbie we are going to have to agree to disagree. The public sector wage bill is still a lot of money and still overpaid in IMO... the average wage is well above that of the private sector...but you will still argue the average is not a good measure...its been done to death..As I say no matter what I say to you, you will say the P.S do not deserve to be cut...and being honest if I was in your shoes I would be the same..

    But the fact is that we cannot afford it any more and while all other facets of gov spending is coming down one facet the ps pay was not touched in the budget and will not be cut in the net 4/5 years under the CPA

    But as I say I will use my vote to change this ...before I would go off ranting...No need I will vote in Enda and let him do the nessacery


  • #561
    RobbieTheRobber
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,212 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    fliball123 wrote: »
    Until we are no longer borrowing to pay for wages/social welfare and for current public services..The point that your missing is my tax does not go to pay anyone in the private sector (bar the bankers) the bankers should also be cut now ...those under state control anyway should be...
    Yes but the private sector does not provide public services as well the public sector(clue is in the name) does
    Look Robbie we are going to have to agree to disagree. The public sector wage bill is still a lot of money and still overpaid in IMO... the average wage is well above that of the private sector...but you will still argue the average is not a good measure...its been done to death..As I say no matter what I say to you, you will say the P.S do not deserve to be cut...and being honest if I was in your shoes I would be the same..

    ISnt this the core point what everyone is failing to see when they call for massive culls to the PS is that they are a group of people or workers and like any group threathened they will respond. So when people say they will do less work for less pay that is peoples natural response to aggressive threats or abusive posts about how lazy incompetent that group are. Attacking a large group of people and assumming they are all the same is always a dangerous silly way of thinking.
    But the fact is that we cannot afford it any more and while all other facets of gov spending is coming down one facet the ps pay was not touched in the budget and will not be cut in the net 4/5 years under the CPA

    But as I say I will use my vote to change this ...before I would go off ranting...No need I will vote in Enda and let him do the nessacery

    I dont think thats a fair assesment, it was cut pre budget it was affected by the budget changes to PRSI, and should the economy detoriate further it will be cut again.


    Enda is a pompous fool only considered better becasue the other is so much worse.
    As I point out I doubt despite all Endas bluff and posturing he will really affect many more changes to the PS than FF would do.

    He will cut numbers by natural wastage, FF are trying this now, the British copied it yet then had irish media laud this as progressive thinking. Progressive how?
    Hadnt the fool cowen already thought of this?

    To be honest dont believe the hype the papers try to sell to us!

    Most self proclaimed free speech absolutists are giant big whiny snowflakes!



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  • #562
    noodler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,511 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    I dont think thats a fair assesment, it was cut pre budget it was affected by the budget changes to PRSI, and should the economy detoriate further it will be cut again.


    Under the MOU the PS has until Sept to demonstrate significant cost-savings.


  • #563
    fliball123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,612 ✭✭✭fliball123


    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    Yes but the private sector does not provide public services as well the public sector(clue is in the name) does



    ISnt this the core point what everyone is failing to see when they call for massive culls to the PS is that they are a group of people or workers and like any group threathened they will respond. So when people say they will do less work for less pay that is peoples natural response to aggressive threats or abusive posts about how lazy incompetent that group are. Attacking a large group of people and assumming they are all the same is always a dangerous silly way of thinking.



    I dont think thats a fair assesment, it was cut pre budget it was affected by the budget changes to PRSI, and should the economy detoriate further it will be cut again.


    Enda is a pompous fool only considered better becasue the other is so much worse.
    As I point out I doubt despite all Endas bluff and posturing he will really affect many more changes to the PS than FF would do.

    He will cut numbers by natural wastage, FF are trying this now, the British copied it yet then had irish media laud this as progressive thinking. Progressive how?
    Hadnt the fool cowen already thought of this?

    To be honest dont believe the hype the papers try to sell to us!

    Well the Pompous fool willl more than likely be the next leader...As I say if you take the emotive issue of people aside ... The wages in the P.S need to be cut and not shifted to pensions or social welfare..

    Remember robbie people on the scratch have been cut 2/3 times and will have to take more..

    Pensions have been cut and will be cut again

    Public services have been cut and cut again

    Taxes have been increased and will increase again.

    Why should the P.S wage be taken out of the this equation ?

    Look I am not trying to get at you I am trying to get a grip of where your coming from?


    As I say I know you have taken cuts but so has everyone else


  • #564
    RobbieTheRobber
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,212 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    fliball123 wrote: »
    Well the Pompous fool willl more than likely be the next leader...As I say if you take the emotive issue of people aside ... The wages in the P.S need to be cut and not shifted to pensions or social welfare..

    Remember robbie people on the scratch have been cut 2/3 times and will have to take more..

    Pensions have been cut and will be cut again

    Public services have been cut and cut again

    Taxes have been increased and will increase again.

    Why should the P.S wage be taken out of the this equation ?

    Look I am not trying to get at you I am trying to get a grip of where your coming from?


    As I say I know you have taken cuts but so has everyone else

    What public services have been cut?

    Are you sure pensions where cut?

    Indeed and taxes affect everyone.


    So people on the scratch have been cut 2/3 fair enough so why not have fair and equitable cuts to all, why not increase tax across all points this would mean a person on 30k in both the public and private sector would be cut equally.
    I have never said the state doesnt need to cut expenditure but to expect those who work for the state to fund all those expenditure reductions in wages alone is unfair. Wouldnt you say?

    Most self proclaimed free speech absolutists are giant big whiny snowflakes!



  • #565
    noodler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,511 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    Purely for illustrative purposes:

    Again, someone in the PS on 30,000 (which I'd consider a reasonable wage) isn't really meant for the brunt of the cuts people feel may be well be necessary.

    wage-bill.png

    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    I have never said the state doesnt need to cut expenditure but to expect those who work for the state to fund all those expenditure reductions in wages alone is unfair. Wouldnt you say?

    I have to stop you there. All of them? There have been €1bn in pay cuts and whatever was saved by the Pension Levy.

    To date, as far as I remember and incluidng budget 2011, there has been / will be an adjustment of €22bn.

    Now we are looking at further cuts of €9bn between 2012-2014 and these aren't going to be target specifically at the PS unless the CP deal falls through.

    So that would give us an overall adjustment of €31bn by 2014 - €1bn of which was from PS wages directly and another €xbn from the Pension Levy.


  • #566
    fliball123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,612 ✭✭✭fliball123


    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    What public services have been cut?

    Are you sure pensions where cut?

    Indeed and taxes affect everyone.


    So people on the scratch have been cut 2/3 fair enough so why not have fair and equitable cuts to all, why not increase tax across all points this would mean a person on 30k in both the public and private sector would be cut equally.
    I have never said the state doesnt need to cut expenditure but to expect those who work for the state to fund all those expenditure reductions in wages alone is unfair. Wouldnt you say?

    Yeah pensions are cut as the rate of tax relief has gone from 40% to 33%

    have you not heard of hospitals closing?
    have you not heard of transport projects being shelved
    Also all departments in the gov have less spend this year than others which means that if ps pay isnt cut then services have to take a hit

    Why should I pay more tax to keep you at your current wage when its over bloated.. Sorry but we are at the point of diminishing returns with taxes.

    Robbie look I dont want to see people in hardship

    But out of the 1.8 Million people working there is 300k in the p.s (who are overpaid IMO) there are numerous studies done that confirm this.(will not argue this point anymore with you)

    Another 100k approx in the banks

    so for the other 1.4 million people who are struggling to meet their bills you want them to get an increase in tax to keep the p.s on their current pay levels and whats worse is that in some sectors there are increments still going on ....

    Sorry but I garentee you that tax take will be right down in 2011 because people can not live in this country its too expensive and we are paying too much in tax..whilst also knowing my wage will be reduced aswell by my employer

    I will be out of here if there is another tax rise like the last budget...So it will get to a point where the only people left will be the 300k people in the public sector.


    So as I say you still have not given me 1 reason why with all other costs from gov spending coming down why the public sector pay is not on the table aswell.

    I also never said they would have to do it alone I have outlined saying pensions will be cut as will social welfare as will public services aswell as a tax increase how is that the p.s paying this by itself...All it would be doing is taking its fair share of pain


  • #567
    noodler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,511 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    fliball123 wrote: »
    Yeah pensions are cut as the rate of tax relief has gone from 40% to 33%

    I wouldn;t say thats the same thing as implying the state pension was cut in fairness.

    Also, from the foru year plan it is like this isn't it? :

    - 2012: 41% - 34%
    - 2013: 34% - 27%
    - 2014: 27% - 20%


    So the cut in relief isn't until next year.


  • #568
    fliball123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,612 ✭✭✭fliball123


    noodler wrote: »
    I wouldn;t say thats the same thing as implying the state pension was cut in fairness.

    Also, from the foru year plan it is like this isn't it? :

    - 2012: 41% - 34%
    - 2013: 34% - 27%
    - 2014: 27% - 20%


    So the cut in relief isn't until next year.

    Not sure but one way or the other its a cut in pensions its like the pension levy for the p.s :)


  • #569
    martian1980
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 370 ✭✭martian1980


    fliball123 wrote: »
    Not sure but one way or the other its a cut in pensions its like the pension levy for the p.s :)

    in fact, this new pension cut will be hitting the public servants even harder than the private sector, so you could view it as another swipe at the public service paybill!

    who says?

    That bastion of pro-public service sentiment - the irish independent!
    The Indo wrote:
    PUBLIC servants will be the big losers if the Government goes ahead with plans to reduce the tax reliefs on pensions, a leading pensions body said last night.

    The Government is planning to reduce the tax relief rate from 41pc for higher earners to 33pc, but an executive officer in the civil service will be â¬58 a month worse off if this happens.

    A private sector worker on â¬40,000 a year will be â¬26 a month worse off.

    This is because workers will have to contribute more to their pension schemes just to get the same amount of money into their pension schemes, as they will be getting less in tax reliefs.

    An executive officer in the civil service on â¬42,311 will find herself out of pocket by â¬58 a month if she is to maintain the same level of pension contributions, according to a report commissioned by the Irish Association of Pension Funds (IAPF).

    Over a full year, the executive officer would be â¬702 worse off, assuming she is single and paying pay-related social insurance (PRSI).

    In contrast, a married private sector worker on â¬50,000 with one income in the household will find themselves â¬34 a month worse off from the reduction in pensions tax reliefs.

    A higher executive officer in the civil service, earning â¬52,000 a year, will be down â¬985 a year, or â¬82 a month, according to IAPF calculations.

    http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/pensions/taxrelief-cut-on-pensions-to-hit-public-sector-hardest-2431017.html


  • #570
    galway2007
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 301 ✭✭galway2007


    fliball123 wrote: »
    Whos cheering?

    Robbie the fact is we cannot afford it...and the cheapest way without a dramatic change in services is a wage reduction

    What we need to do first is to slash private sector wages
    Ireland is on average goods costs 31% more and most of this is due to massive wage demand in the private sector and massive profit taken by the private sector employers.
    When this has being achieved and to live in Ireland cost the same as the rest of Europe we should they do a benchmarking on public sector wages across Europe
    So what I am asking for is for the private sector to get there house in order, become competitive stop ripping off Irish people.
    So to achieve this we have to options
    1) Employers take less profit (was that a pig flying)
    2) Slash wages by 20% to 30 %
    It has to be done and done now so we can get manufacturing back


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  • #571
    galway2007
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 301 ✭✭galway2007


    noodler wrote: »
    Why should private sector workers subsidise PS workers for pensions far greater than their own?
    Hold on now
    The private sector pension is all subsidized
    1) What the employee put it to the fund get 41% tax relief
    2) What the employer put in the fun get tax relief


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