Its official : public sector pay per hour is 49% higher than private sector

The_Thing · 05-01-2011 12:11AM

Head The Wall wrote: »

This is why people hate PS workers and unions, you have summed it up properly. Now people can see what ye are all about

I'm just trying to fulfill the stereotype that posters here have of the public-sector. There may as well be some truth in it at this stage.

Welease · 05-01-2011 10:19AM

Head The Wall wrote: »

This 50% only applies to new entrants and does not deal with the pensions of the past and all current employees which will still be receiving pensions based on their final salary potentially for the next 70-80 years
/QUOTE]

Sorry my bad.. That is correct.. My post was not clear in that respect.

Japer · 05-01-2011 11:46AM

The_Thing wrote: »

If they cut my pay by 10% I will do 10% less work.

As another poster asked, does that mean you've done 14% less work (or whatever the cuts have been so far) thus far? And how about other public sector workers- have they done 14% less work ( or whatever their percentage is ) either / as well ?

rightwingdub · 05-01-2011 12:07PM

The_Thing wrote: »

If they cut my pay by 10% I will do 10% less work.

And public sector workers wonder why they are stereotyped as been lazy and underperforming. Well then you should be sacked I'm sure they'll be plenty of applicants for your job.

doc_17 · 05-01-2011 12:43PM

The people who come and say "I'll do 10% less work if my pay is cut by 10%" are part of the reason that some sectors in the PS are struggling. People like that should be weeded out. They give the rest of us a bad name

fliball123 · 05-01-2011 12:43PM

This discussion still going on I got banned for a week for been overly vocal before the xmas... Well to all Public servants I hope you enjoyed your xmas as you will be cut again as the current biggest party in the dail (via the polls) Fianna gael have put a manefesto out which includes cuts in both wage and numbers to the Public sector according to the bellow link and will abolish a shed load of the monsterous quangos.

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/-Fine-Gaels-program-for-government-proposes-drastic-cuts-to-public-sector-106874858.html

And on this issue alone I will be voting Fianna Gael as the over protected, over bloated and over pensioned Public sector need to be taken down along with the quangos...

No point argueing with gobaloons here saying I will work 10% less if I get a 10% pay cut...I reckon you will be breaking your Balls to stay in employment like the private sector. So 2011 hopefully the Public sector will really be sharing the pain with the rest of us

RobbieTheRobber · 05-01-2011 02:10PM

rightwingdub wrote: »

And public sector workers wonder why they are stereotyped as been lazy and underperforming. Well then you should be sacked I'm sure they'll be plenty of applicants for your job.

WEll no there wont be loads of applications because there is ban on recruitment. Anyway any potentila new recruit would become PS and then you would hate them and the circle is complete!

RobbieTheRobber · 05-01-2011 02:11PM

fliball123 wrote: »

This discussion still going on I got banned for a week for been overly vocal before the xmas... Well to all Public servants I hope you enjoyed your xmas as you will be cut again as the current biggest party in the dail (via the polls) Fianna gael have put a manefesto out which includes cuts in both wage and numbers to the Public sector according to the bellow link and will abolish a shed load of the monsterous quangos.

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/-Fine-Gaels-program-for-government-proposes-drastic-cuts-to-public-sector-106874858.html

And on this issue alone I will be voting Fianna Gael as the over protected, over bloated and over pensioned Public sector need to be taken down along with the quangos...

No point argueing with gobaloons here saying I will work 10% less if I get a 10% pay cut...I reckon you will be breaking your Balls to stay in employment like the private sector. So 2011 hopefully the Public sector will really be sharing the pain with the rest of us

you know you didnt need to type all the crap you did, you could have summed it up with.

Rabble rabble rabble, take der jobs :rolleyes::rolleyes:

ParkRunner · 05-01-2011 02:12PM

fliball123 wrote: »

No point argueing with gobaloons here saying I will work 10% less if I get a 10% pay cut...I reckon you will be breaking your Balls to stay in employment like the private sector. So 2011 hopefully the Public sector will really be sharing the pain with the rest of us

Personally my efforts will be directed at getting out of the public sector this year and into the private sector. There is only so many times you can pay for a public sector pension with pension related deduction now subject to the USC and PRSI. It is like paying tax on a paycut

RobbieTheRobber · 05-01-2011 02:17PM

doc_17 wrote: »

The people who come and say "I'll do 10% less work if my pay is cut by 10%" are part of the reason that some sectors in the PS are struggling. People like that should be weeded out. They give the rest of us a bad name

There are internal procedures in departments to deal IR issues such as people not doing work.

Sometimes however in response to chilidish taunts form anti-ps people some posters have responded with outbursts as humans we are all allowed that.

To assume that a minority of People who claim to be Ps in this thread speak on behalf of the majority of the overall ps is quite some leap though!

Much like many of the stats wheeled out here.

RobbieTheRobber · 05-01-2011 02:21PM

fliball123 wrote: »

This discussion still going on I got banned for a week for been overly vocal before the xmas... Well to all Public servants I hope you enjoyed your xmas as you will be cut again as the current biggest party in the dail (via the polls) Fianna gael have put a manefesto out which includes cuts in both wage and numbers to the Public sector according to the bellow link and will abolish a shed load of the monsterous quangos.

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/-Fine-Gaels-program-for-government-proposes-drastic-cuts-to-public-sector-106874858.html

And on this issue alone I will be voting Fianna Gael as the over protected, over bloated and over pensioned Public sector need to be taken down along with the quangos...

No point argueing with gobaloons here saying I will work 10% less if I get a 10% pay cut...I reckon you will be breaking your Balls to stay in employment like the private sector. So 2011 hopefully the Public sector will really be sharing the pain with the rest of us

I read your dopey article there head and well eh it says nothing about paycuts.

Also the 10% reduction is PS numbers doesnt give a timeline for that so I expect FG's method would be the same as FF's which is natural wastage whcih is funnily enough just like the british method for reduction in numbers.

Then again though i doubt you ever let facts get in the way of good off the wall rant!

noodler · 05-01-2011 02:24PM

EF wrote: »

Personally my efforts will be directed at getting out of the public sector this year and into the private sector. There is only so many times you can pay for a public sector pension with pension related deduction now subject to the USC and PRSI. It is like paying tax on a paycut

Why should private sector workers subsidise PS workers for pensions far greater than their own?

RobbieTheRobber · 05-01-2011 02:29PM

noodler wrote: »

Why should private sector workers subsidise PS workers for pensions far greater than their own?

huh what?

we all subsidise the state pension why shoudl anyone be entitled to that?

noodler · 05-01-2011 02:39PM

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

huh what?

we all subsidise the state pension why shoudl anyone be entitled to that?

Are you serious? Can you not see the difference?

RobbieTheRobber · 05-01-2011 02:44PM

noodler wrote: »

Are you serious? Can you not see the difference?

Are you serious do you have possession of all the facts?

We can play a maths game if you wish.

In fact if you reread this thread and the other now duplicate thread you will find many reasoned posts about funding of PS pensions, or you can choose to ignore those lucid posts by other users than me and instead continue to post rhetoric!

The choice is yours but I dont see why i should be expected to be reasonable when very few others are being so.

fliball123 · 05-01-2011 02:45PM

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

I read your dopey article there head and well eh it says nothing about paycuts.

Also the 10% reduction is PS numbers doesnt give a timeline for that so I expect FG's method would be the same as FF's which is natural wastage whcih is funnily enough just like the british method for reduction in numbers.

Then again though i doubt you ever let facts get in the way of good off the wall rant!

It states public services by 10% I was more attaken with the quango cuts...but dame edna has come out and said that cutting numbers and p.s pay.

And just to all p.s here I am entitled to have my opinion and I am entitled to back a gov party who seems to have a bit of cop on when it comes to cutting public sector down to where it should be...sorry if the if I come accross as smug but the fact is that along with tax increases which will happen again next year aswell as more cuts to pensions and to social welfare...there will have to be a fair cut in the P.S wage...I wish the cash was there but it aint.

So go for it Dame Enda

Japer · 05-01-2011 02:49PM

noodler wrote: »

Why should private sector workers subsidise PS workers for pensions far greater than their own?

because thats the system in this country. The government and their employees get the big pensions.

RobbieTheRobber · 05-01-2011 02:50PM

fliball123 wrote: »

It states public services by 10% I was more attaken with the quango cuts...but dame edna has come out and said that cutting numbers and p.s pay.

And just to all p.s here I am entitled to have my opinion and I am entitled to back a gov party who seems to have a bit of cop on when it comes to cutting public sector down to where it should be...sorry if the if I come accross as smug but the fact is that along with tax increases which will happen again next year aswell as more cuts to pensions and to social welfare...there will have to be a fair cut in the P.S wage...I wish the cash was there but it aint.

So go for it Dame Enda

They are a political party - the two current government parties are FF and the greens.

10% reduction is that not FF's goal through natural wastage (I already said this).
Do you have a time frame for FG's proposed cuts? ( this would help indicate whether the mean fo r these cuts to be secured through natural wastage or by dumping 30k people to the live register.
Oh no thats becasue they are not in government, and as we know oh so well what parties say pre the polls is often quite different to post poll day.

ParkRunner · 05-01-2011 02:53PM

noodler wrote: »

Why should private sector workers subsidise PS workers for pensions far greater than their own?

Although the public service pension contributions are required as part of the contract maybe this could be changed just like it seems every other aspect of the contract can be changed it seems quite easily i.e. make it optional rather than compulsory

Gumbo · 05-01-2011 02:54PM

noodler wrote: »

Why should private sector workers subsidise PS workers for pensions far greater than their own?

noodler wrote: »

Are you serious? Can you not see the difference?

you really should read the facts....

why do i pay 309e per month into my pension for 40 years to only receive 12, 832 for it?

(assuming i work 40 years and retire on a final salary of 50k)

i dont see where the PrS subsidise my pension there??????????????

i said it before and i'll say it again, i would opt out of my PS pension if i had the choice.

RobbieTheRobber · 05-01-2011 02:54PM

fliball123 wrote: »

It states public services by 10% I was more attaken with the quango cuts

I'll deal with this in isolation, the quango doesnt automatically mean a reduction in ps numbers but more of re-centralisation of government departments. Dont forget though that the decentralisation process was one fo the reasons FF got into power in 2003(?), by winning local votes by promising to bring departments to areas outside of Dublin!

This is wasnt a PS iniative but a government one! a Governmetn we all elected unless you believe the PS are the only people who vote.
Do you?

RobbieTheRobber · 05-01-2011 02:56PM

Japer wrote: »

because thats the system in this country. The government and their employees get the big pensions.

No japer i heard its actually the magic leprechauns who get all the money.

My statement has as much fact as your one i quoted.

noodler · 05-01-2011 03:06PM

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Are you serious do you have possession of all the facts?

We can play a maths game if you wish.

In fact if you reread this thread and the other now duplicate thread you will find many reasoned posts about funding of PS pensions, or you can choose to ignore those lucid posts by other users than me and instead continue to post rhetoric!

The choice is yours but I dont see why i should be expected to be reasonable when very few others are being so.

I am not posting rhetoric sir, not am I in the business of posting it.

You can can continue with your vile little abusive attitude in your posts but it won't win you any favours.

I am quite serious that the average public sector pension is far more generous than that in the private sector and that before the Pension Levy the relative return for contribution was completely out of line.

kceire wrote: »

you really should read the facts....

why do i pay 309e per month into my pension for 40 years to only receive 12, 832 for it?

(assuming i work 40 years and retire on a final salary of 50k)

i dont see where the PrS subsidise my pension there??????????????

i said it before and i'll say it again, i would opt out of my PS pension if i had the choice.

Eh, you'd have to go back to my post where I was responding to criticism of the Public Sector Pension Levy rather than see one post and go off on a defensive rant. We were discussing the merits of the levy in effect versus no levy.

fliball123 · 05-01-2011 03:07PM

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

I'll deal with this in isolation, the quango doesnt automatically mean a reduction in ps numbers but more of re-centralisation of government departments. Dont forget though that the decentralisation process was one fo the reasons FF got into power in 2003(?), by winning local votes by promising to bring departments to areas outside of Dublin!

This is wasnt a PS iniative but a government one! a Governmetn we all elected unless you believe the PS are the only people who vote.
Do you?

No but I saw a figure there at least 85% of the P.S vote for Fianna Fail now that will have shifted since the last Gen Election...As I say Robbie I dont want to come accross as being bitter or smug but do you not think that its unfair that in the last budget and with the next 4/5 budgets that
Pensions are/will be cut
Dole has been and will be cut
Child allowence has been and will be cut
Social Welfare has been and will be cut
Tax have increased and will increase further

And no cut to Public sector this year or in the next 4/5 budgets due to CPA can you not see how unfair this is or are you really that blinkered

This will be torn up by the end of the year..

As I say I wish there was cash so we could pay p.s wages/pensions
I wish it was there to pay the same rates of social welfare/child allowence
I wish the money was there so that there would be no more tax increases

But Wishing isnt going to make the current clusterf$%k go away and until a gov has the balls to cut back on all areas we will remain in this quagmire of depression..

As for the quangos if a quango is not profitable then the people in here get paid by the tax payer. As for decentralisaion it was a complete arse no one wanted to move and it I dont think anyone did or very few and this was one of the reasons why the p.s got benchmarked if I remember correctly (not sure do) So less quangos mean less money coming out of my pocket into a bottomless pit of junkits and 5 star hotels

noodler · 05-01-2011 03:08PM

EF wrote: »

Although the public service pension contributions are required as part of the contract maybe this could be changed just like it seems every other aspect of the contract can be changed it seems quite easily i.e. make it optional rather than compulsory

Thats a fair point.

I would hazard a guess and say many PS workers would not get a better retrun for their money elsewhere though.

Gumbo · 05-01-2011 03:10PM

noodler wrote: »

I am not posting rhetoric sir, not am I in the business of posting it.

You can can continue with your vile little abusive attitude in your posts but it won't win you any favours.

I am quite serious that the average public sector pension is far more generous than that in the private sector and that before the Pension Levy the relative return for contribution was completely out of line.

Eh, you'd have to go back to my post where I was responding to criticism of the Public Sector Pension Levy rather than see one post and go off on a defensive rant. We were discussing the merits of the levy in effect versus no levy.

my apolagies if it seems that im taking a rant out on you, not intended.
just wanted to add factual figures to the debate.

noodler wrote: »

Thats a fair point.

I would hazard a guess and say many PS workers would not get a better retrun for their money elsewhere though.

most staff, on maybe 23k to mid 40k would get better results through the private sector.
my friend works for Cornmarket Group and i showed him my payslip and he says i could match my PS pension and lump sum for alot less than what im paying in now.

RobbieTheRobber · 05-01-2011 03:13PM

fliball123 wrote: »

No but I saw a figure there at least 85% of the P.S vote for Fianna Fail now that will have shifted since the last Gen Election...As I say Robbie I dont want to come accross as being bitter or smug but do you not think that its unfair that in the last budget and with the next 4/5 budgets that
Pensions are/will be cut
Dole has been and will be cut
Child allowence has been and will be cut
Social Welfare has been and will be cut
Tax have increased and will increase further

And no cut to Public sector this year or in the next 4/5 budgets due to CPA can you not see how unfair this is or are you really that blinkered

This will be torn up by the end of the year..

As I say I wish there was cash so we could pay p.s wages/pensions
I wish it was there to pay the same rates of social welfare/child allowence
I wish the money was there so that there would be no more tax increases

But Wishing isnt going to make the current clusterf$%k go away and until a gov has the balls to cut back on all areas we will remain in this quagmire of depression..

As for the quangos if a quango is not profitable then the people in here get paid by the tax payer. As for decentralisaion it was a complete arse no one wanted to move and it I dont think anyone did or very few and this was one of the reasons why the p.s got benchmarked if I remember correctly (not sure do) So less quangos mean less money coming out of my pocket into a bottomless pit of junkits and 5 star hotels

Im sorry your post is dripping wiht anti ps bile and I cant be arsed trying to find what is fact and what is just bitterness.

You do realise that pre the december budget PS wages had already been cut?

You do know Ps pension benefits were cut?

You do know numbers in the PS are coming down?

The croke park agreement actually allows for further reductions (the exceptional circumstances clause).

Are you trying to insinuate that PS pay was not reduced during 2010 and also during 2009?
WE also are affected by the tax band changes in the decmeber budget that also affects our pay.

So you will excuse me when all I can see is bitternes and blindness you say we took no cuts, yet i know my pay was cut, I know my future pension benefits were cuts. So what is it we as PS staff have not felt?

Or do you just want to see some of us cast into the street to make you feel better?

RobbieTheRobber · 05-01-2011 03:19PM

kceire wrote: »

my apolagies if it seems that im taking a rant out on you, not intended.
just wanted to add factual figures to the debate.

most staff, on maybe 23k to mid 40k would get better results through the private sector.
my friend works for Cornmarket Group and i showed him my payslip and he says i could match my PS pension and lump sum for alot less than what im paying in now.

Plus you would also be entitled to your state contributory pension then as well as your self funded scheme!

noodler · 05-01-2011 03:21PM

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Im sorry your post is dripping wiht anti ps bile and I cant be arsed trying to find what is fact and what is just bitterness.

You do realise that pre the december budget PS wages had already been cut?

You do know Ps pension benefits were cut?

You do know numbers in the PS are coming down?

The croke park agreement actually allows for further reductions (the exceptional circumstances clause).

Are you trying to insinuate that PS pay was not reduced during 2010 and also during 2009?
WE also are affected by the tax band changes in the decmeber budget that also affects our pay.

So you will excuse me when all I can see is bitternes and blindness you say we took no cuts, yet i know my pay was cut, I know my future pension benefits were cuts. So what is it we as PS staff have not felt?

Or do you just want to see some of us cast into the street to make you feel better?

Lets get Macro on this to avoid harming your sensitivities.

The PS pay bill is about €16bn annually (rising to over €19bn if you included pensions). We take in €31bn in tax every year. Do you think that the Pay Bill needs to be trimmed? Even in a fairer way than the Government has advocated in Budget 2010.

fliball123 · 05-01-2011 03:25PM

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Im sorry your post is dripping wiht rhetoric and I cant be arsed trying to find what is fact and what is just bitterness.

You do realise that pre the december budget PS wages had already been cut?

You do know Ps pension benefits were cut?

You do know numbers in the PS are coming down?

The croke park agreement actually allows for further reductions (the exceptional circumstances clause).

Are you trying to insinuate that PS pay was not reduced during 2010 and also during 2009?
WE also are affected by the tax band changes in the decmeber budget that also affects our pay.

So you will excuse me when all I can see is bitternes and blindness you say we took no cuts, yet i know my pay was cut, I know my future pension benefits were cuts. So what is it we as PS staff have not felt?

Or do you just want to see some of us cast into the street to make you feel better?

No I am insinuating that we have all had cuts and thet the P.S wage was insulated in the last budget and with the cpa it will continue to be insulated for the next 4/5 bugets unless its torn up.....

As I say I have given up ranting and I will let my vote do the talking for me ... My pay was cut in 2008/9 and 10 I am down near 24% not even takeing into acount tax increases... So do not for one second come accross as if the p.s are being picked on all I am stating is that everything has been cut up until the cpa kicked in and then all of a sudden the public sector salaries are off the table for the next 4/5 years whilst we are in the worst situation ever...If you do not see how unfair that is then you may as well leave the country as I garentee you that a p.s pay decrease will be high on a lot of normal tax payers agendas and its the first thing that any politician knocking on my door that I will be asking and a lot of people who I know are of the same mind.

As I say sorry if its coming accross as a rant I dont mean it to. I feel better knowing that Dame Edna who will probably be the next leader has stated that the P.S needs to be tackled and I will be voting for him on that basis.

I mean yeah p.s have had cuts but still no where near as to the private sector same with the pensions.

Its official : public sector pay per hour is 49% higher than private sector

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