Its official : public sector pay per hour is 49% higher than private sector

RobbieTheRobber · 04-01-2011 02:37PM

Japer wrote: »

From your own personal point of view, in the short term at least , yes of course. However it is clearly not sustainable that our bankrupt government - now under the thumb of the imf / eu - will continue to pay public sector wages which are considerably higher than both the private sector and most public sectors elsewhere. Indeed social welfare + pensions of course has to come in to line / be reduced too.

I dont really base truth on my own personal opinion, I usually try to use the facts to ascertain truth.

However one thing I know to avoid when trying to discover truth is usually rhetoric ( the undue use of exaggeration or display; bombast. ). Your above post is a good example of such

Japer · 04-01-2011 03:27PM

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

I dont really base truth on my own personal opinion, I usually try to ....

I was not referring to your personal opinion or otherwise, I was replying to murf313's question
"Sure isnt it better to be over paid than under paid "

RobbieTheRobber · 04-01-2011 04:48PM

Japer wrote: »

I was not referring to your personal opinion or otherwise, I was replying to murf313's question
"Sure isnt it better to be over paid than under paid "

Indeed however I was merely responding to the recent thread direction ie the search for truth and the pain that causes some and also some peoples use of rhetoric rather than truth.

Japer · 04-01-2011 06:46PM

Do you not think the previous posters comment that public sector workers "get gold plated pensions and benefits " is the truth ? Would you rather be in the shoes of a large number of private sector workers now ....hundreds of thousands of whom are unemployed ... and many more who have no p.s. pensions to look forward to ?

doc_17 · 04-01-2011 07:36PM

Japer wrote: »

Do you not think the previous posters comment that public sector workers "get gold plated pensions and benefits " is the truth ? Would you rather be in the shoes of a large number of private sector workers now ....hundreds of thousands of whom are unemployed ... and many more who have no p.s. pensions to look forward to ?

That's an interesting post. So is it my fault I went to college and got the qualifications that allowed me to do the job I wanted? The 250000 who are looking for work have my sympathy but it's not my fault they are out of work Japer

RobbieTheRobber · 04-01-2011 07:56PM

Japer wrote: »

Do you not think the previous posters comment that public sector workers "get gold plated pensions and benefits " is the truth ? Would you rather be in the shoes of a large number of private sector workers now ....hundreds of thousands of whom are unemployed ... and many more who have no p.s. pensions to look forward to ?

Japer if you would like to ask me a question can you do so without first attempting to emotionally charge the issue!

Can I not just as easily throw the question back at you and say would an unemployed person rather not be in the shoes of a person who has a private sector job which also includes defined employeer contributions to their pension?

In the above question i have loaded the question, as is your norm.

after loaded questions how about pointless questions like this one:
Would an unemployed person rather not be a millionaire? :rolleyes:

See we can all load our questions or ask stupid ones they dont get anyone anywhere as your two threads demonstrate!

Now how about some questions designed to get the truth

What is a gold plated pension?
What is the state pension, What is its value and who is entitled to it?

murf313 · 04-01-2011 08:23PM

Japer wrote: »

From your own personal point of view, in the short term at least , yes of course. However it is clearly not sustainable that our bankrupt government - now under the thumb of the imf / eu - will continue to pay public sector wages which are considerably higher than both the private sector and most public sectors elsewhere. Indeed social welfare + pensions of course has to come in to line / be reduced too.

You should get yourself issued a sense of humour......:rolleyes:

public sector wages which are considerably higher than both the private sector and most public sectors elsewhere

stop spreading your lies/propeganda/rhetoric/bull crap, its getting tiring at this stage!

Gumbo · 04-01-2011 09:35PM

Japer wrote: »

Do you not think the previous posters comment that public sector workers "get gold plated pensions and benefits " is the truth ? Would you rather be in the shoes of a large number of private sector workers now ....hundreds of thousands of whom are unemployed ... and many more who have no p.s. pensions to look forward to ?

there is also a large number of private sector workers .... hundreds of thousands of whom are unemployed ... and many who have pensions to look forward to as good and if not better than some PS Pensions.

Welease · 04-01-2011 09:53PM

kceire wrote: »

there is also a large number of private sector workers .... hundreds of thousands of whom are unemployed ... and many who have pensions to look forward to as good and if not better than some PS Pensions.

On the same salaries? (i.e. comparing apples with apples).. Because I doubt there are many defined contribution pensions that come anywhere near a defined benefit package. Most DB pensions were phased out due to the high costs associated (even the pre bust banks phased them out due to costs). The cost of a DB pension (and I have one) is roughly estimated to cost about 30% of a person's salary... I don't know any private pensions which are funded to that level (apart from a few "top" bankers and developers who could and should not be held up as an average for private sector pension renumeration)

Regarding the OP.. The 49% claim is one of the worst abuses of statistics I have seen in a while, and that is saying something...

rightwingdub · 04-01-2011 10:04PM

Public sector pay needs to be slashed by the following amounts.

<€30k 15%
€30,001-€70,000 25%
€70,001-€110,000 35%
€110,001-€150,000 45%
>€150,001 50%

No doubt people will find the above proposed pay cuts humane and fair.

Also 100,000 redundancies in the public sector would come in handy also.

The_Thing · 04-01-2011 10:48PM

rightwingdub wrote: »

Public sector pay needs to be slashed by the following amounts.

<€30k 15%
€30,001-€70,000 25%
€70,001-€110,000 35%
€110,001-€150,000 45%
>€150,001 50%

No doubt people will find the above proposed pay cuts humane and fair.

Also 100,000 redundancies in the public sector would come in handy also.

We have already had two pay cuts.

rightwingdub · 04-01-2011 10:51PM

The_Thing wrote: »

We have already had two pay cuts.

Tax revenues are at 2003 levels, in 2010 public sector pay came to €19 billion, in 2003 it was €13 billion therefore it makes logical sense from a financial point of view to implement the above pay cuts in my previous thread. Irish public sector pay levels are still completely unaffordable and need to be reduced further along with largescale redundancies.

ParkRunner · 04-01-2011 10:58PM

rightwingdub wrote: »

Tax revenues are at 2003 levels, in 2010 public sector pay came to €19 billion.

19 billion, are you sure about this?

The_Thing · 04-01-2011 11:01PM

rightwingdub wrote: »

.....Irish public sector pay levels are still completely unaffordable and need to be reduced further along with largescale redundancies.

If that were the case then the IMF would have done what you suggest - they didn't, much to the disappointment of some.

rightwingdub · 04-01-2011 11:14PM

The_Thing wrote: »

If that were the case then the IMF would have done what you suggest - they didn't, much to the disappointment of some.

Give the IMF a few months, I heard recently that in Greece transport workers had to take 10% pay cuts.

murf313 · 04-01-2011 11:29PM

rightwingdub wrote: »

Public sector pay needs to be slashed by the following amounts.

<€30k 15%
€30,001-€70,000 25%
€70,001-€110,000 35%
€110,001-€150,000 45%
>€150,001 50%

No doubt people will find the above proposed pay cuts humane and fair.

Also 100,000 redundancies in the public sector would come in handy also.

You keep dreaming there.....:rolleyes:

So someone who earns <30k gets cut 15% but if you earn a euro over 30k you lose 25%??? makes real sense......

20Cent · 04-01-2011 11:32PM

rightwingdub wrote: »

Public sector pay needs to be slashed by the following amounts.

<€30k 15%
€30,001-€70,000 25%
€70,001-€110,000 35%
€110,001-€150,000 45%
>€150,001 50%

No doubt people will find the above proposed pay cuts humane and fair.

Also 100,000 redundancies in the public sector would come in handy also.

Hope your bunker is well stocked if that happens.

ParkRunner · 04-01-2011 11:32PM

rightwingdub wrote: »

Give the IMF a few months, I heard recently that in Greece transport workers had to take 10% pay cuts.

At this point, public sector cuts consist of (amongst others)....

- Pension levy deductions
- Direct pay cuts
- Reduction of pay by 10% for new entrants
- Embargo on recruitment and promotions and foregoing of agreed pay increases scrapped
- Downward adjustment to current and future pension entitlements
- General impact of Budget 2011 tax band changes/USC charge introduction

The_Thing · 04-01-2011 11:36PM

rightwingdub wrote: »

Give the IMF a few months, I heard recently that in Greece transport workers had to take 10% pay cuts.

If they cut my pay by 10% I will do 10% less work.

oldyouth · 04-01-2011 11:38PM

The_Thing wrote: »

If they cut my pay by 10% I will do 10% less work.

And if you were private sector, you would get fired for that.

noodler · 04-01-2011 11:42PM

The_Thing wrote: »

If they cut my pay by 10% I will do 10% less work.

No matter how hard I try and stay somewhat in the middle in the argument here, a comment like that just personifies every stereotype about the Public Sector.

Do less work? Are you serious?

Is it only because of the extensive unionisation of your profession/department that you feel you could do such a thing without fear of sacking?

Anyway, I am not saying x% cut should be applied to everyone - once again the bill of €16bn just needs to decrease.

murf313 · 04-01-2011 11:52PM

oldyouth wrote: »

And if you were private sector, you would get fired for that.

Lads, really this is just getting childish now........

Everyone has really fallen for the whole private v public thing havent they?? The big cheeses/developers/bankers/politicians must be having a great laugh at us all while they sip brandy and smoke cigars.

Well ive had enough of the bitching and moaning that goes on this forum so im off....

oldyouth · 04-01-2011 11:55PM

murf313 wrote: »

Lads, really this is just getting childish now........

Everyone has really fallen for the whole private v public thing havent they?? The big cheeses/developers/bankers/politicians must be having a great laugh at us all while they sip brandy and smoke cigars.

Well ive had enough of the bitching and moaning that goes on this forum so im off....

I agree, generally with your point. However, comments from public sector workers saying they will do less work if their pay is cut has to be checked. Reality has to be forced home

noodler · 04-01-2011 11:58PM

murf313 wrote: »

Lads, really this is just getting childish now........

Everyone has really fallen for the whole private v public thing havent they?? The big cheeses/developers/bankers/politicians must be having a great laugh at us all while they sip brandy and smoke cigars.

Well ive had enough of the bitching and moaning that goes on this forum so im off....

If you think we can not have a debate on public finances then you are very wrong. The 'big cheese' lala la la sh1te is irrelevant. We arer spending too much money now, right now, then we are taking in. Regardless of banks, thats is something people really need to realise.

We are spending €18.5bn in 2010 more than we are taking in.

Head The Wall · 04-01-2011 11:58PM

Welease wrote: »

.. they will now get a 50% of average salary rather than final salary.. which is less for them, and is obviously going to mean less defecit going forwards (although I have not seen any estimates on how much).

This 50% only applies to new entrants and does not deal with the pensions of the past and all current employees which will still be receiving pensions based on their final salary potentially for the next 70-80 years

The_Thing wrote: »

If they cut my pay by 10% I will do 10% less work.

This is why people hate PS workers and unions, you have summed it up properly. Now people can see what ye are all about

avoidspammers · 04-01-2011 11:58PM

The_Thing wrote: »

If they cut my pay by 10% I will do 10% less work.

Does that mean you've done 14% less work (or whatever the cuts have been so far) thus far?

Av. Sp.

ParkRunner · 05-01-2011 12:03AM

By voting power the private sector as a whole has had the power and always will have the power to strongly influence the outcome of an election. The public sector could never outvote the private sector. While not trying to justify or legitimse FF policy, their mandate has been clear enough and has been voted in since 1997. Majority rules and any disagreement with what has happened can be directed at the government

avoidspammers · 05-01-2011 12:04AM

Head The Wall wrote: »

This is why people hate PS workers and unions, you have summed it up properly. Now people can see what ye are all about

Which 'people' are you referring to?

avoidspammers · 05-01-2011 12:07AM

noodler wrote: »

No matter how hard I try and stay somewhat in the middle in the argument here,

That is a disingenuous remark.

Av. Sp.

noodler · 05-01-2011 12:07AM

avoidspammers wrote: »

That is a disingenuous remark.

Av. Sp.

Explain how?

Av. Sp.

Its official : public sector pay per hour is 49% higher than private sector

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