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My .02 cents

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Comments

  • #62
    Seziertisch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,180 ✭✭✭Seziertisch


    punchdrunk wrote: »
    my major issue with speaker tests is like this one is how broken in are the speakers?

    my celestion Golds were quite harsh out of the box,but they have mellowed beautifully without sounding muddy they sound quite different now

    I actually found that even when broken in,V 30's sound pretty harsh but again that's pretty subjective to the amp they are in
    in my Orange AD30 they were way too harsh/bright and it couldn't be EQ'ed out

    Yeah, I know what you mean, I would hope though that they would have had the foresight to put them all on a Variac for a bit.

    Right on about the Golds, I think all of the Celestions take a while to break in properly.

    I also know what you mean about the V30s, though one man's/amp's "brightness" is anothers "cut". They wouldn't be my thing either, but I can understand why some guys like them for certain types of music. There is a guy on Ebay selling hemp coned V30s, could be cool. Apparently the Eminence Red Fang and the Canis Major are the same speaker, with the Red Fang being paper cone and the Canis hemp cone. I hear quite a big difference between them.


  • #63
    rcaz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,034 ✭✭✭rcaz


    Seziertisch wrote: »
    The filter on the rat is a hi cut, the difference I am hearing in the speakers is not just a difference in the amount of high end, the bass and midrange response is quite different on all of them (to my ears at least)

    My point was, turning a knob on a pedal and installing a new speaker both result in changing the partials present in the sound. Obviously the exact same processes aren't at play.
    Seziertisch wrote: »
    As to why it wasn't reamped, my guess is because converting and reconverting a guitar signal ultimately results in the loss of presence (not that it sounds bad, just kind of different/not quite like a straight guitar into an amp) and because the video is ultimately from an amp company, they probably figured that getting their amp to sound its best was also pretty important. You could argue, I suppose, that the differences we are hearing could just as easily be down to the player as the speakers and if that is your take on it there is nothing I can do to convince you otherwise. At least I have never heard anyone capable of coaxing so much difference out of their playing.

    I just thought, if they wanted to make a speaker comparison, they shouldn't worry about AD/DA conversion making their amp not sound its best, a speaker comparison should be about speakers. But that's beside the point. (Actually, I'd love to hear them play white noise out through the speakers with a solid state PA amplifier or something).

    Seziertisch wrote: »
    In my experience, in a recording situation, a lot of times more outlandish effects chains (particularly anything filter based) tend to produce very dynamic sounds or sounds with lots of particular frequencies which don't show up too often in more general run of the mill guitar tones. A lot of times these are the body of the sound. I have found that with a less than optimal guitar speaker, these experimental sounds can be extremely problematic in a mix. They jump out and not in a good way, try and eq them and all of a sudden the balls have been cut off your cool sound. With a better/more suitable speaker they sit better straight off, need less processing and don't suffer from "this sounds great but I can't make it work the way I want to".

    As to what could work for you, El Pron, a Greenback style speaker could be good, smooth, strong midrange but kind of gritty. Nels Cline uses an old Marshall cab with greenbacks for the live stuff with Wilco at least. I think you can hear kind of the same qualities in J Mascis's and Jimi Hendrix's sounds. Obviously they are all using Marshall amps and all of the signals you are hearing on recordings have been processed, but seeing as you have a Marshall yourself it could work.

    Otherwise, just listen to the difference between Slash's tone and Billy Corgan's (circa Siamese Dream). Slash is a Vintage 30 user, that midrange honk is really part of his sound, whereas most of the guitars on Siamese Dream are through a greenback cab. Both Slash and Billy play(ed) modded JCM800s. Even though they are playing (sort of) the same amp, I think Billy's tone is closer to the 3 guitarists mentioned above than to Slash's. That said Billy and the 3 guys above are all pretty heavy effects users, so that is obviously also a factor. The greenback seems to be a popular choice for those kinds of sounds. I have seen them go for not a lot of cash on adverts and even new they are definitely more affordable than a lot of others out there.

    This was a good read. But I'm really getting the impression you're using this thread to show off how much you know? Waxing lyrical about speakers, showing how well you know all these guitarists, pointing out you know how the filter in a RAT works when it's beside the point, talking about your extensive experience with everything... A bit tiresome.


  • #64
    Seziertisch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,180 ✭✭✭Seziertisch


    El Pr0n wrote: »
    I just thought, if they wanted to make a speaker comparison, they shouldn't worry about AD/DA conversion making their amp not sound its best, a speaker comparison should be about speakers. But that's beside the point. (Actually, I'd love to hear them play white noise out through the speakers with a solid state PA amplifier or something).

    I know what you mean, but doing a comparison like this takes time and costs money. Them is the breaks. I think infomercial is the concept at play here.
    El Pr0n wrote: »
    This was a good read. But I'm really getting the impression you're using this thread to show off how much you know? Waxing lyrical about speakers, showing how well you know all these guitarists, pointing out you know how the filter in a RAT works when it's beside the point, talking about your extensive experience with everything... A bit tiresome.

    That last bit says more about you than it does about me.


  • #65
    PaulieBoy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 534 ✭✭✭PaulieBoy


    You pair need to go for a walk or something!
    Glad I'm not stuck in a lift with the pair of ya with dead iPod battery :D


  • #66
    Keyzer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,331 ✭✭✭Keyzer


    Jesus lads, calm down will ye, its only a discussion about amps and speakers etc. not world peace...


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  • #67
    slavetothegrind
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,790 ✭✭✭slavetothegrind


    can i come play at yours paintdoctor, mmmmmm, gear!!!!!
    :D

    interesting stuff there, just a communication breakdown inbetween.


  • #68
    RedDragonJack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 203 ✭✭RedDragonJack


    No one in this thread(including myself) has much knowledge on these subjects beyond the subjective. I don't think any of us understand much about speaker design.

    PS. I once owned a pair of €1500 hi-fi speakers and tbh not worth the money.


  • #69
    PaulieBoy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 534 ✭✭✭PaulieBoy


    RedDragonJack wrote: »
    No one in this thread(including myself) has much knowledge on these subjects beyond the subjective. I don't think any of us understand much about speaker design.

    PS. I once owned a pair of €1500 hi-fi speakers and tbh not worth the money.
    This is very true, and most people listen to music on some sort of crappy radio/CD player so all that attention to the miniscule detail is totally lost on them. It's either a good tune or not.


  • #70
    darrenw5094
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,126 ✭✭✭darrenw5094


    PaulieBoy wrote: »
    This is very true, and most people listen to music on some sort of crappy radio/CD player so all that attention to the miniscule detail is totally lost on them. It's either a good tune or not.

    The tune either rawks or it doesn't.:)


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