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Most developers have now transferred their assets to spouses

135

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭abelard


    Would the abolition of the presumption of advancement in Irish law stymie this practice going forward?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Dionysus wrote: »
    Oh please. Now that capitalism has been shown to not be an amazing Celtic Tiger, capitalist ideologues are attempting to claim that capitalism has nothing to do with the current situation. Apparently only the successful economic stories are allowed to be truly capitalist! :rolleyes:

    Its has a lot to do with our current situation. what Im saying is that letting these bankers go unpunished and walk free is not capitalist


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,718 ✭✭✭upandcumming


    gar120 wrote: »
    in fairness if i was a developer thats the first thing I would of done.

    Learning some English would have been more in your line.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article6823478.ece
    Gayle Killilea - Mrs Sean Dunne - owns most expensive home
    Mystery owner of mansion sold for €57m is revealed as former journalist
    Tom Lyons
    As a journalist her job was to prise secrets from the rich and famous. But for the last four years Gayle Killilea, the wife of property developer Sean Dunne, has managed to keep a secret of her own under cover: she owns the most expensive home ever bought in Ireland.

    Walford, a mansion on Shrewsbury Road in the Dublin 4 embassy district, was bought for €57m in 2005 by a trust named Matsack Nominees.

    Dinner-party speculation at the time linked Ireland’s richest men — including Dermot Desmond and Denis O’Brien — to the sale.

    With a guide price of €30m, the sale of the seven-bedroom house on 1.8 acres was a high watermark of the property boom. The price worked out at €13,750 per sq ft.

    Despite the rumours, its ownership remained a mystery. The Sunday Times has now confirmed that Killilea became the beneficial owner on October 9, 2006.

    The trust has twice applied for planning permission to redevelop the Edwardian redbrick. However, wealthy residents of Shrewsbury Road — including Dermot Gleeson, the former attorney-general, and Blacktie owner Niall O’Farrell — have never known for certain who was behind these plans.

    Sean Dunne has repeatedly denied that he owns the property. In 2006 he issued legal proceedings against The Sunday Business Post for claiming he had acquired it. It is not clear why the property magnate needed to go to such lengths to deny ownership of Walford when he could have said that it was in his wife’s name.

    Mountbrook, the development group owned by the Carlow-born developer, spent €570m buying land in Ballsbridge between 2005 and 2006. It paid €370m for the Jurys and Berkeley Court hotels in Ballsbridge and €200m buying the AIB head office building just up the road in Ballsbridge.

    Dunne added further to his portfolio by swapping a building he owned in the docklands for Hume House, another building near his hotels in Ballsbridge.

    Dunne’s property splurge was funded by a syndicate of non-Irish banks led by Bank of Scotland (Ireland). It is not clear how his wife, 34, a former journalist with the Sunday Independent, funded her acquisition. Irish Nationwide has been used previously by her husband in personal property transactions. The society could not confirm last week whether or not it was involved.When contacted by The Sunday Times yesterday, the Dunnes declined to comment on the ownership of Walford.

    Matsack has made several attempts to redevelop Walford, which backs onto the grounds of Old Belvedere rugby club. Two years ago the trust applied for planning permission to demolish the building and replace it with a three-storey mansion including a rear balcony, swimming pool and staff quarters. Two four-bedroom houses on the grounds were also proposed. The planners granted permission to build the two houses but refused to allow the old house to be destroyed.

    After this failure, a Dublin 4 property agent approached wealthy individuals to guage interest in buying the property. They were given one week to say if they were interested, but no credible bid was received.

    This summer, preparatory work started on the site, prompting speculation that a new plan was being prepared. Ground-clearing has been completed around the old house which was formerly owned by Patrick Duggan, an accountant who moved there with his family in 1956.

    Last week, Killilea launched her first business, a supermarket trading as D4 Stores, on the grounds of the former Jurys hotel in Ballsbridge now owned by her husband.

    The shop has become embroiled in a political row as to whether it has the proper planning permission and licences to trade.

    Killilea said that she believed the store would be a success among the residents of Ballsbridge, many of whom, she claimed, had been “wiped out financially”.

    She and Dunne were officially married in a lavish 17thcentury villa in Santa Margherita in Italy in July 2004. Three months earlier they had taken part in a ceremony in Thailand with just two witnesses.

    Their 14-day summer bash in Italy cost an estimated €1.5m, which included hiring the Christina O, the $50m (€35m) yacht formerly owned by Greek shipping billionaire Aristotle Onassis to sail their guests around the Mediterranean. “If it was good enough for Jackie Kennedy, I thought it’s good enough for me,” Killilea remarked at the time.

    Guests at the wedding included Michael Fingleton, the former chief executive of Irish Nationwide, rugby player Ronan O’Gara and the clothes designer Karen Millen. Bertie Ahern, the then taoiseach, telephoned the couple on the yacht to convey his best wishes.


    A part-time columist in the sunday rags can suddenly afford the most expensive house in Dublin.

    I posted this article three months ago in AH and it was removed no doubt through fear of legal action.

    This shiit happened in many cases just before the setting up of NAMA coz the bastards realised they couldnt be touched if they transferred thier assets to their spouses.
    What we need is retrospective legislation to make sure properties like this will be seized and disposed of on the market to ensure the developers pay what they owe..will the govt ever do it? Dont hold your breath..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭ilovesleep


    Sweet Lord above us, Holy Mary mother of God, For the love of God all Christ almighty, Please pray for us. Amen


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  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 10,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭melekalikimaka


    we'd all do the same... in fairness


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 415 ✭✭Holybejaysus


    A few weeks ago I berated a poster who suggested that certain government members should be strung up from a crane. At the time, I considered it a crude and tasteless comment.

    Having watched tonight's show, and seen for the first time the full extent of what has being happening, and how the rich are still able to fly and shop in Brown Thomas, how they fiddle while Rome burns, how they have basically gotten away with the greatest heist in the history of the State......I'm not so sure the poster was wrong.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭ilovesleep


    A few weeks ago I berated a poster who suggested that certain government members should be strung up from a crane. At the time, I considered it a crude and tasteless comment.

    Having watched tonight's show, and seen for the first time the full extent of what has being happening, and how the rich are still able to fly and shop in Brown Thomas, how they fiddle while Rome burns, how they have basically gotten away with the greatest heist in the history of the State......I'm not so sure the poster was wrong.

    Thanks for being honest. Glad you are seeing sense now


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭ilovesleep


    Where are the thugs from moyross in co.limerick when we need them to do something useful.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 458 ✭✭Craebear


    Decorate the M50 with their crucified corpses.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,753 ✭✭✭qz


    Rabble rabble developers rabble rabble rabble kill rabble rabble rabble angry rabble rabble sensationalist response rabble rabble rabble

    :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭ilovesleep


    Lets use that crane to stick as many FiannaFcukers and developers and bankers down that fecking spire. Who would have ever known that pointy sharp pole would come in useful.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56 ✭✭vintac34


    Much rather see their decomposing bodies hanging from lamposts than their election posters...
    Prince or pric? of darkness comes to mind+a few others!!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    we'd all do the same... in fairness

    "We" wouldnt coz "we" wouldnt have the complicity of the most corrupt government this side of nigeria.


  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 10,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭melekalikimaka


    Degsy wrote: »
    "We" wouldnt coz "we" wouldnt have the complicity of the most corrupt government this side of nigeria.

    well its still possible here, if you were in their shoes no doubt youd do the same


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    well its still possible here, if you were in their shoes no doubt youd do the same

    But i'm not so fcuck them.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 235 ✭✭Irish Slaves for Europe


    well its still possible here, if you were in their shoes no doubt youd do the same

    Yes most people would do the same and most people would know they were highly unlikely to get away with it, as the government would no doubt introduce retrospective legislation to reverse those transfers.........or so you would have thought. Instead Irish tax payers are currently paying the staff of NAMA to plead with these vile scumbags to willingly reverse the transfers. So instead of NAMA doing the work it was set up for it is currently wasting valuable time trying to reason with these developers.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,015 ✭✭✭CreepingDeath


    We need a time machine. And a team of assassins.

    Actually we just need a team of assassins.

    Kill the wives, the properties are then inherited back by the husbands, and NAMA can then grab their assets (so to speak).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,215 ✭✭✭galah


    hang on, so I can run up a huge debt, borrow more with my house as a security, not bother paying it back, and when the government comes looking I just transfer the place into my husband's name? Sweet. Whatever happened to 'for richer or for poorer'?

    I thought there is no such thing as asset separation in Ireland, what's mine is yours and all that (we were told there's no point in putting up a prenup since it would not be valid here anyway, assets are split equally between partners upon marriage...?!)

    Are there NO tax implications at all when transferring assets?

    The goverment could have at least looked into that one, even if they couldnt stop the developers reneging on their debts (feckers, whatever happened to personal responsibility???) - tax any asset transfers with 80 % of the market value of the house at the height of the boom...should put a stop to this fairly lively.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,594 ✭✭✭bonerm


    It appears WIFE now stands for Washing Ironing Fraud Etc


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    galah wrote: »
    The goverment could have at least looked into that one, even if they couldnt stop the developers reneging on their debts (feckers, whatever happened to personal responsibility???) - tax any asset transfers with 80 % of the market value of the house at the height of the boom...should put a stop to this fairly lively.

    But you forget the government willingly helped these people when times were good because they're all fianna failure cronies.
    The govt are hand in glove with the developers and in many cases ministers have personal involvement in the bad debts..its in thier interests to get the taxpayer to foot the bill,nobody upsets the FF applecart.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Degsy wrote: »
    But you forget the government willingly helped these people when times were good because they're all fianna failure cronies.
    The govt are hand in glove with the developers and in many cases ministers have personal involvement in the bad debts..its in thier interests to get the taxpayer to foot the bill,nobody upsets the FF applecart.

    not only helped these people illegally helped these people.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 50 ✭✭davebloggs


    We are paying back the banks loans not the developers loans,

    I don't see why everone is hating on the developers, a property bubble needs the input of everybody, all you people who bought houses at high prices and bought a second house or an apartment as an investment are just as responsible as the developers.

    I think it just comes down to jealousy, he's got big houses and cars and I don't.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,888 ✭✭✭Dubh Geannain


    I don't know what all the fuss is about.

    Didn't Brian Lenihan say:
    NAMA wasn't a bailout for developers.
    This has been the cheapest bailout...so far
    Developers will be chased to the ends of the earth

    That's as far he'll be able to chase them. They'll still get away in their helicopters :rolleyes:

    Edit: Also on the show. Johnny Ronan to Bertie "Keep pulling for us". Caught red handed you schmuck


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,451 ✭✭✭Lord Trollington


    I'm a firm believer of what comes around, goes around.

    All those lads have it coming to them in one shape or form.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    davebloggs wrote: »
    We are paying back the banks loans not the developers loans,

    I don't see why everone is hating on the developers, a property bubble needs the input of everybody, all you people who bought houses at high prices and bought a second house or an apartment as an investment are just as responsible as the developers.

    I think it just comes down to jealousy, he's got big houses and cars and I don't.

    well I didnt build a big house during the boom but I think the point is that houses are being re-possesed, peoples utilities are being cut off, For oweing relativily miniscule amounts to the banks however those developers who owe billions collectivly are still living a life well beyond their means. We are effectivly paying back some level of developers loans!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 50 ✭✭davebloggs


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    well I didnt build a big house during the boom but I think the point is that houses are being re-possesed, peoples utilities are being cut off, For oweing relativily miniscule amounts to the banks however those developers who owe billions collectivly are still living a life well beyond their means. We are effectivly paying back some level of developers loans!

    Those developers employed a quarter of the workers in the country through construction and ancillary business for 10 years on good wages.

    Untold numbers of people bought houses for their families on that money.

    Thats where an awful lot of the money these guy's borrowed but can't pay back went, into workers pockets.

    The only reason to repossess one mans house is out of spite, it will make no difference economically.

    It is the banks fault for lending all the money, and the goverments fault for trying to bay it back, they should have just laughed at AIB and said good luck.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭Forest Master


    bonerm wrote: »
    It appears WIFE now stands for Washing Ironing Fraud Etc
    You spent ages thinking of that, didn't you? You thought it was really clever & kept hitting F5 waiting for 'thanks', didn't you?
    Fail.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 447 ✭✭AntiMatter


    bonerm wrote: »
    It appears WIFE now stands for Washing Ironing Fraud Etc

    Why Is ForestMaster Enraged?


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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 99,645 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    davebloggs wrote: »
    We are paying back the banks loans not the developers loans,

    I don't see why everone is hating on the developers, a property bubble needs the input of everybody, all you people who bought houses at high prices and bought a second house or an apartment as an investment are just as responsible as the developers.

    I think it just comes down to jealousy, he's got big houses and cars and I don't.
    I think you are trolling but


    Back around 2000 the biggest loan you could get was 2.5 times your annual wage ( + 1 times the smaller wage) (even then people were faking P60s and the banks wern't checking ) and that only if you already had 10% of the price saved up. We then went to a situation where people could get 100% mortgages over 40 years.

    This huge increase in the supply of money was not the problem ( even if almost all of it was swallowed up by the developers - had the old rules applied house prices would have been far lower ) The problem was that Anglo were lending money out to a few developers on the same sort of relaxed rules.


    The developers used the cheap credit given to irish home buyers to fund their buying of offshore properties. Very roughly half the debt is Anglo the top 30 or 40 develpoers . The greed of a bus load of people have destroyed a country .


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