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Off licenses closing at 10pm and nanny state

1356

Comments

  • #62
    faceman
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,691 CMod ✭✭✭✭faceman


    Disagree, incorrect decision from our government
    whatsamsn wrote: »
    Simple fact is we are adults. If I want to get a bottle of Jack Daniels at 1am in the morning I should be entitled to. There should not be a rule stating me that I have to buy alcohol before 10pm. Its someone telling me what I can and cant do.

    Do you honestly think that being an adult and taking mature responsibility for ourselves and others go hand in hand?


  • #63
    whatsamsn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 911 ✭✭✭whatsamsn


    Don't realy know, neutral vote
    Its all about freedom faceman :)
    Like if someone wants to drink themself into the grave... thats their choice. No one would have a right to say otherwise.

    I just believe in personal freedom.


  • #64
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Disagree, incorrect decision from our government
    whatsamsn wrote: »
    Its all about freedom faceman :)
    Like if someone wants to drink themself into the grave... thats their choice. No one would have a right to say otherwise. I just believe in personal freedom.

    I presume you are equally in favour of doing away with the social welfare system?


  • #65
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,496 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Don't realy know, neutral vote
    faceman wrote: »
    I used to be against it but I'm very much for it nowadays although it's a very uneven law given the licensing laws for pubs/clubs and the lacking impact that the Drink Aware campaign has in Ireland.

    Ireland has a massive alcohol problem. It's one of the highest costs and burden to the health service, and a large 'acceptable' destroyer and taker of lives too.

    That's not to say the vast majority of people suffer from alcohol abuse, but a significant percentage of drinkers in Ireland do. Is it acceptable to forego them for the sake of someone else being permitted to buy a late off sale instead?

    We know that most alcohol related strains on the health service and emergency services occur late at night. Therefore a curtailment of late night off sales makes sense although it is a weak curtailment given the lack of responsibility taken by many pubs and clubs to not serve drunk punters.

    The argument that the curtailment discriminates against those who work shift doesn't wash. Many other shops and services such as banks, post offices and hairdressers open for less hours than off licenses but you never hear any issue over that

    Essentially if you work shift you can plan ahead.

    You seem to arguing both for and against the law here. You suggest that it's a godo thing in that it will prevent people from drinking in the evenings but then say it's not an issue as people can just buy their booze earlier. How is the law anything other than an inconvenience to those who work late? To be honest, those who are most likely to overindulge are the same ones who would have no time constraints preventing them from buying booze during the day so it all seems completely pointless.


  • #66
    eddyc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 360 ✭✭eddyc


    Don't realy know, neutral vote
    Does anyone know if the ban has reduced the amount of alcoholics?


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  • #67
    steo87
    Closed Accounts Posts: 510 ✭✭✭steo87


    Don't realy know, neutral vote
    Fúcking Ireland and their laws! I agree with the smoking ban, but the off-licence one is taking it too far. And the worst thing? Scotland has taken them up on this little law...can't buy drink after ten over here either.....bastards


  • #68
    rossie1977
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,537 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    i think we should ban alcohol altogether, for the good of the family, an ireland free of alcohol would be a far better place


  • #69
    legend365
    Closed Accounts Posts: 460 ✭✭legend365


    Don't realy know, neutral vote
    Alot of other countries have 24/7 offos.

    No crazy high rates of crime or related deaths because of it.

    People have a choice. Be an idiot/ Don't be an idiot.

    Make sentances alot harsher = less idiots.

    Build a new prison = more jobs/places for idiots.

    Simple.


  • #70
    123MEE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32 ✭123MEE


    Stole my thread from last night! why was mine locked? :confused:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=2056120077


  • #71
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Disagree, incorrect decision from our government
    123MEE wrote: »
    Stole my thread from last night! why was mine locked? :confused:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=2056120077

    It started drinking too early in the day? Or possibly because it was in the wrong forum.


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  • #72
    123MEE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32 ✭123MEE


    prinz wrote: »
    It started drinking too early in the day? Or possibly because it was in the wrong forum.

    it wasn't drinking too early cos it couldn't buy a feckin drink!!!


  • #73
    faceman
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,691 CMod ✭✭✭✭faceman


    Disagree, incorrect decision from our government
    legend365 wrote: »
    Alot of other countries have 24/7 offos.

    No crazy high rates of crime or related deaths because of it.

    People have a choice. Be an idiot/ Don't be an idiot.

    Make sentances alot harsher = less idiots.

    Build a new prison = more jobs/places for idiots.

    Simple.

    What are you basing that assumption on? Alcohol related problems are rife in every country in the EU! In Poland, 1 in 4 deaths of people younger than 29 is alcohol related.

    The EU invests quite a significant amount of financial support to try tackle it and raise awareness. It is estimated that 200,000 people die a year in the EU as a result of alcohol related illnesses or alcohol fueled fatalities etc. (A quarter of these are less than 29 years of age)

    Take France, the 'mature' drinkers of the world. I read a paper a few years ago about alcohol in France that looked at the culture of parents introducing children to alcohol in the safety of the home at an earlier age of 16 and 17. It found that it did nothing to prevent alcohol related issues in later life. This type of study has been done in other countries and the same results were found.

    As far as I am aware, France has the highest rate of Foetal Alcohol Syndrome in the EU with something like 60,000 people living with the condition.

    The US has a lower rate of alcohol related issues than Europe and we all know the US has tighter restrictions on alcohol availability. It doesnt take a genius to work out one is related to the other.


  • #74
    whatsamsn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 911 ✭✭✭whatsamsn


    Don't realy know, neutral vote
    prinz wrote: »
    I presume you are equally in favour of doing away with the social welfare system?

    Geez, whats with bashing on me huh? :P This has nothing to do with the social or anything else.

    Simple fact alcohol is a persons choice. And what has this ban stopped?
    as i said in my other post people just buy drink earlier. So has the ban done anything? ... except annoy people and say that you as an adult are not allowed to buy alcohol after 10pm (except in bars :rolleyes:)

    So Prinz, you are in favor of this law i gather?


  • #75
    poisonated
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,284 ✭✭✭poisonated


    Don't realy know, neutral vote
    prinz wrote: »
    I presume you are equally in favour of doing away with the social welfare system?


    To be honest, that is not a very strong argument. There are many people who are not on social welfare and still can't go to an off licence after 10.


  • #76
    Rebekah Angry Mushroom
    Posts: 6,645 ✭✭✭ Rebekah Angry Mushroom


    Rabies wrote: »
    because you currently can't currently buy alcohol at spur of the moment 24/7. So for now, pre plan because you have to.

    Even if trading hours for off licences were extended by 2hrs to suit those that work shifts, then some poor bastard would complain he can't get alcohol when his shift finished at 1am.

    That's not really the point, though. Hardly anything is open at 1am. At 10.15pm, the majority of supermarkets and small shops are still open, with a shutter pulled down over the alcohol section. That's what seems ridiculous to me. You can buy a bottle of wine for your dinner at 9.59 but not at 10.01 in the same shop. I've been in the situation where I was buying stuff for dinner after work (used to finish at 9.45 pm) and there was a bit of a queue, so by the time I got to the cashier, the alcohol wouldn't scan. Sorry, but that absolutely reeks of 'nanny state' to me. It's all well and good saying to plan ahead, but sometimes you just really fancy a can after a long day, or you discover a recipe which needs white wine, why should you not be able to buy it as a responsible adult? I got to the point where I practically felt like a junkie, as if I was doing something wrong by rushing into Centra in time to buy wine, or whatever. All this silly law seems to do is inconvenience those who don't have a problem with alcohol or violence in the first place, people who work long hours and weird shifts and depend on late night shopping.

    I really think that all this does is continue to put alcohol on a pedestal as something dangerous and illegal, making it all the more appealing to teenagers. I know nobody likes people who go on about the continent, but honestly, here where I live now, the attitude towards booze is totally different and there are almost NO social problems related to drink. It just isn't really considered a big deal to order a bottle of beer or buy a can, it's not seen as any different than buying a soft drink. As long as the supermarket/corner shop is open, you can buy whatever is in there without being interrogated for ID and feeling like a criminal or addict for wanting to purchase a legal substance as a responsible adult. And it works.


  • #77
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Disagree, incorrect decision from our government
    Rebekah Angry Mushroom wrote: »
    And it works.

    It doesn't work because the laws are different, it works because the people are.


  • #78
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Disagree, incorrect decision from our government
    whatsamsn wrote: »
    Geez, whats with bashing on me huh? :P This has nothing to do with the social or anything else.
    poisonated wrote: »
    To be honest, that is not a very strong argument. There are many people who are not on social welfare and still can't go to an off licence after 10.

    I was referring to the posters attitude that it's the person's choice to drink themselves into an early grave as a personal freedom. That would be great as long as the same person didn't come back looking to a tax funded health system to take care of them later. You can't have it everyway.


  • #79
    finty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 266 ✭✭finty


    whatsamsn wrote: »
    Its all about freedom faceman :)
    Like if someone wants to drink themself into the grave... thats their choice. No one would have a right to say otherwise.

    I just believe in personal freedom.

    This is fine if an individual drinking themselves into the grave has no effect on the rest of society.

    Unfortunately this isn't the case and Ireland has horrific social problems directly related to alcohol consumption.

    This law isn't a solution, but it can only help if even just a little bit


  • #80
    shampon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 580 ✭✭✭shampon


    finty wrote: »
    This is fine if an individual drinking themselves into the grave has no effect on the rest of society.

    Unfortunately this isn't the case and Ireland has horrific social problems directly related to alcohol consumption.

    It's all JOE DUFFY'S fault.


  • #81
    Copper23
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 525 ✭✭✭Copper23


    I don't get the fuss.

    You know they close at 10. Just buy it when ever you go shopping.

    Thats like saying, Oh I wanted a Twix bar but I was working until 10pm and the corner shop closes at 9pm. It's not like you starve, just go shopping and buy wheatver you need for the week like a normal person.

    If you knwo you're working a late shift and aren't out before 10 then buy a few cans beforehand, it's fairly obvious really.


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  • #82
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,773 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I actually had a interesting conversation on this with two Italian friends of mine. I was complaining about how the offys have to close at 10 and how its a nanny state. Of course they have no such rule in Italy but its completely negated by the fact they dont have dedicated off-licenses and all the shops close at 6pm and dont open on sundays.

    So you cannot buy take out drink after 6. Id wager its the same in a lot of mainland Europen countrys so maybe we don't have it so bad after all.


  • #83
    finty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 266 ✭✭finty


    gurramok wrote: »
    Yes. I was caught out by it on a few occasions, very annoying. Now I do stock up on the weekly shop and guess what, thats made me drink more. Totally opposite of what this stupid law was suppose to do.


    Funniest post I've seen on boards in a long while.

    It was a joke right?


  • #84
    poisonated
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,284 ✭✭✭poisonated


    Don't realy know, neutral vote
    finty wrote: »
    Funniest post I've seen on boards in a long while.

    It was a joke right?

    Haha it's funny but I can totally see where this person is coming from.


  • #85
    BASHIR
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 554 ✭✭✭BASHIR


    Don't realy know, neutral vote
    Question: when did this law come into effect? cant find anything online


  • #86
    Caoimhín
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,789 ✭✭✭Caoimhín


    Don't realy know, neutral vote
    BASHIR wrote: »
    Question: when did this law come into effect? cant find anything online

    About a year ago, jeezs get with the programme Bashir...


  • #87
    grenache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,477 ✭✭✭grenache


    Caoimhín wrote: »
    About a year ago, jeezs get with the programme Bashir...
    It came into effect in the summer of 2008 with the introduction of that year's Intoxicating Liquor Act.


  • #88
    BASHIR
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 554 ✭✭✭BASHIR


    Don't realy know, neutral vote
    Caoimhín wrote: »
    About a year ago, jeezs get with the programme Bashir...

    Ha ha thanks just arguing with friends as to when it came in, it is ridiculous though, our local off licence is always real busy round 10 to 10 at weekends. Why we cant be trusted to buy it any time is beyond me. If someone does have a problem with alcohol this problem will not just go away just because there not able to get alcohol after 10 o clock. It really makes no sense.

    damn i was wrong thought it was last year too :D


  • #89
    faceman
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,691 CMod ✭✭✭✭faceman


    Disagree, incorrect decision from our government
    pickarooney wrote: »
    You seem to arguing both for and against the law here. You suggest that it's a godo thing in that it will prevent people from drinking in the evenings but then say it's not an issue as people can just buy their booze earlier. How is the law anything other than an inconvenience to those who work late? To be honest, those who are most likely to overindulge are the same ones who would have no time constraints preventing them from buying booze during the day so it all seems completely pointless.

    Not all alcohol problems though are the stereotype "Sitting in the pub all day" hardened drinkers. Binge drinking is a larger problem. Countries that have tighter alcohol availability have less alcohol related problems.

    Im not arguing both for it and against. There is a question mark over whether or not the introduction of the law was for the right reasons. However even if it wasnt, it still has a positive effect.
    whatsamsn wrote: »
    Its all about freedom faceman :)
    Like if someone wants to drink themself into the grave... thats their choice. No one would have a right to say otherwise.

    I just believe in personal freedom.

    Thats crap. Would you say that if it was your girlfriend, your father, your mother, your sister, your brother, your child?


  • #90
    Jagle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 870 ✭✭✭Jagle


    Don't realy know, neutral vote
    faceman wrote: »
    Countries that have tighter alcohol availability have less alcohol related problems.

    untrue america has very big issues with teens drinking and people who become 21, there are unused to such a drug that when becoems legal for them to buy go all out and abuse it, abuse of the substance is the issue


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  • #91
    Rebekah Angry Mushroom
    Posts: 6,645 ✭✭✭ Rebekah Angry Mushroom


    prinz wrote: »
    It doesn't work because the laws are different, it works because the people are.

    Exactly, the people are different and that's what matters. So what's the point in having this silly law which, as far as I can see, only bothers people who work funny hours and fancy a quiet can after work? When you have a country full of people with totally messed up attitudes to drinking, stupid little rules like this are a bit of a joke. If you want to abuse alcohol, it can still be easily done. I love the way that over here, it's not really considered a big deal, even by teenagers, because you can buy alcohol anywhere, from the age of 16. I was at the local Christmas market and there were piles of teenagers drinking beer and mulled wine. No fights, no aggression and no drunkenness, because it's not cool to be drunk here. It is really beyond me why falling over and making a total t*t of yourself is considered cool in Ireland, but until that changes, no poxy law is going to help.


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