Its official : public sector pay per hour is 49% higher than private sector

fliball123 · 15-12-2010 02:44PM

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Oh so civil servants tax goes towards their pension as well then does it?
(remember PS staff are not entitled to the normal state pension)
So that would mean post 1995 PS staff pay more than enough for their pension. considering the levy and pay deduction attributed to pensions i believe through prsi and then the tax one you mention.

What about people who have not built up sufficent tax credits do they get a pension?

yeah but P.S staff do not directly contribute to my pension now do they?

almighty1 · 15-12-2010 02:45PM

fliball123 wrote: »

I have argued the next year the tax payer will be cut, the dole will be cut but the P.S is still not cut.

You reasoning behind the first post was this????

fliball123 wrote: »

Sorry reread my full post there I edited it I said its simple maths if you guys take a cut it means less money coming out of my tax to pay your wage.

That doesnt even remotely support your initial argument!!!. You are talking about a hypothetical situation.
Even if PS pay was cut you think the government would give the extra money back to the tax payer?

fliball123 · 15-12-2010 02:45PM

lyverbird1 wrote: »

We may disagree over certain aspects of this debate but I still wish you luck and hope you don't need to emigrate in order to make ends meet. Good luck to you...

Cheers Lyver but thats the reality facing the normal tax payer in this country who dont have a CPA to stop their employers cutting their wage and hours

fliball123 · 15-12-2010 02:46PM

The Muppet wrote: »

I though your tax went to paying ps workers pay.

it does it goes for both

fliball123 · 15-12-2010 02:48PM

neelyohara wrote: »

Absolutely. I agree 100%.

I even read an article in the past week or so that showed public employees recieved more deductions that private in the past two years. To me this means absolutely nothing.

You can't compare like with like. You can't talk about averages. A salary for a public employee vs a private employee is calculated differently (pensions, pay cuts, levys, etc).

When you talk about the averages you are including the fat cats at the top of the public services chain which bears no relation to the average worker. We have staff who are earning 5 times that of Brian Cowen (who again is earning more than Obama). This throws the statistics completely out of whack.

As for job security, as a PS I don't feel I have job security. Most of my colleagues have lost their jobs as the PS is keep on using fixed term contracts. The contracts would normally be renewed and most people more or less expected to continue in their role... this isn't the case now and these people are unemployed. I've also experienced people taking a leave of absence from work due to personal reasons (unpaid of course) and now they are told they can't return as there are no posts available (despite understaffing). After everything that has happened in the past two years I wouldn't be surprised if forced redundancies came into operation.

And in relation to bonues/overtime - there are very few sections of the PS where you can avail of this. Bonuses only go to the fat cats (and I don't think anyone approves of the idea of bonuses anyway) and as for overtime it just doesn't happen. I mean... it does, you work it because you need to, but you don't get paid for it and only if you are extremely lucky will you manage to recoup some time in lieu.

Finally congratulations to all of those who keep the public vs private argument going. You're distracting yourselves and everyone else from the real reason the country is in the state that it is.

There are fat cats in the private sector aswell another point missed by the Public service this also skews the private sector average up.

fliball123 · 15-12-2010 02:52PM

almighty1 wrote: »

You reasoning behind the first post was this????

That doesnt even remotely support your initial argument!!!. You are talking about a hypothetical situation.
Even if PS pay was cut you think the government would give the extra money back to the tax payer?

No but it could be used elsewhere IE a better service HSE anyone...maybe some fcuking decent care for the elderly...Dont start this war man....i have got several warnings and am at boiling point..I think the gov is a complete joke and as I say I dont like the fact that the p.s has grown to the monster it is...but it has its completely gone out of tilter anyone on here from the P.S who denies this is fooling themselfs and is no longer credible to be listened to

almighty1 · 15-12-2010 02:57PM

fliball123 wrote: »

No but ......

Ok so I can discount all of the previous points you made about pay cuts to tax payers, social welfare and not to public server?

fliball123 · 15-12-2010 03:00PM

almighty1 wrote: »

Ok so I can discount all of the previous points you made about pay cuts to tax payers, social welfare and not to public server?

What ever look you can post whatever you want almighty and your one ps worker who I will delight in showing you this back when you do get cut and its coming soon..To all the others who have had an intellegent argument good luck as you will need it and listen I dont blame you guys defending you patch as too speak but its people like this poster who bring you down..anyone can read what I posted and make up there own mind for me I will be voting for the political party who will cut your wages by the most and I would hazzard a guess that I would be in the majority of non public sector workers...So enjoy your xmas and sure I will meet you all for the massive bon fire which will see the CPA on top of the heap

Riskymove · 15-12-2010 03:02PM

fliball123 wrote: »

I am repeating the CSO figures that came to that conclusion

the cso figures conclude absolutely nothing about anyone being under or over paid

I have argued the next year the tax payer will be cut, the dole will be cut but the P.S is still not cut.

The PS will be cut this year, they will pay more tax and the new USC and they even brought in a new 4% increase in PRSI for certain PS

and they have already had a pay cut etc

and as I have said before and no one has came up with a credible answer as to why the P.S new entrants are paid 10% less???

convenience tbh

theoretical future entrants are not in a position to complain (pending time travel breakthrough)

As I say I will let my vote do the talking FG and Sinn Fein seem to be the only parties talking about cuts in the P.S and thats where my vote will go

I think you will find that they are talking about cutting high earners in both sectors

“

Once again the poor, the unemployed, the pensioners, the low paid workers in both private and public sectors and families struggling with massive mortgages will bear the burden.

read these

http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/17909

http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/17792

do you really think they are anti-PS?

fliball123 · 15-12-2010 03:04PM

Riskymove wrote: »

the cso figures conclude absolutely nothing about anyone being under or over paid

The PS will be cut this year, they will pay more tax and the new USC and they even brought in a new 4% increase in PRSI for certain PS

and they have already had a pay cut etc

convenience tbh

theoretical future entrants are not in a position to complain (pending time travel breakthrough)

I think you will find that they are talking about cutting high earners in both sectors

“

read these

http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/17909

http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/17792

do you really think they are anti-PS?

Well as I say I will be voting for the party who has the it in detail how and by how much they will be cutting public sector wages...thats number one with a bullet for me...anyone canvassing it will be the first thing I ask

Riskymove · 15-12-2010 03:04PM

fliball123 wrote: »

..anyone can read what I posted and make up there own mind

indeed, thanks for being honest at least

funnily enough I wont be gloating over anyone's hardships or cuts in these times

Riskymove · 15-12-2010 03:06PM

fliball123 wrote: »

.thats number one with a bullet for me...anyone canvassing it will be the first thing I ask

then I guess you will hear exactly what you want from those politicians.....I have long given up expecting political promises to mean anything

fliball123 · 15-12-2010 03:07PM

Riskymove wrote: »

indeed, thanks for being honest at least

funnily enough I wont be gloating over anyone's hardships or cuts in these times

Risky either will I except for the poster mentioned...He is deliberately trying to bait me and has already reported me for using bad language so as I say I will gloat over him getting his cuts...As I say I do not want the cuts they simply have to happen...if they dont and the budget is more of the same next year I will be leaving the country as I cannot afford to stay and work here its just that simple and then all the P.S can have a big party and do what they like ...

The Muppet · 15-12-2010 03:17PM

fliball123 wrote: »

Wont we be paying more in tax therfore take home pay is cut and before you give me the but P.S pay tax...If you guys took a cut it means less money has to come out of my tax to pay your wage..Its simple maths

You want someone else to pay part of your share of the tax burden, I'd like that too but realise it's not really a fair expectation.

fliball123 · 15-12-2010 03:20PM

The Muppet wrote: »

You want someone else to pay part of your share of the tax burden, I'd like that too but realise it's not really a fair expectation.

Your living up to your name ...No I said instead of me and the rest of the private sector tax payers paying more to keep your wages artificially high. I would rather you took a pay cut ...Simple maths really...I will still be paying the same in tax regardless...and as I have stated if you guys dont get cut next year I will be otta here so one less sucker to pay your wages.

almighty1 · 15-12-2010 03:21PM

fliball123 wrote: »

Risky either will I except for the poster mentioned...He is deliberately trying to bait me and has already reported me for using bad language so as I say I will gloat over him getting his cuts...As I say I do not want the cuts they simply have to happen...if they dont and the budget is more of the same next year I will be leaving the country as I cannot afford to stay and work here its just that simple and then all the P.S can have a big party and do what they like ...

I didnt report you. Ask a mod is you wish.
Im not trying to bait you, Ive never resorted to name calling and continuously disproved your arguments and skewed sense of logic. Its not my fault if you cant handle being continuously proved wrong.

Every day there is PS bashing and I have never seen 1 person gloat about the private sectors misfortune. Its your prerogative if you wish to pursue your unjust angst, I wont lose any sleep over it.

fliball123 · 15-12-2010 03:23PM

almighty1 wrote: »

I didnt report you. Ask a mod is you wish.
Im not trying to bait you, Ive never resorted to name calling and continuously disproved your arguments and skewed sense of logic. Its not my fault if you cant handle being continuously proved wrong.

Every day there is PS bashing and I have never seen 1 person gloat about the private sectors misfortune. Its your prerogative if you wish to pursue your unjust angst, I wont lose any sleep over it.

Where have you disproved any of my arguments not once have you..I appologise if I blamed you in the wrong

The Muppet · 15-12-2010 03:26PM

fliball123 wrote: »

Your living up to your name ...No I said instead of me and the rest of the private sector tax payers paying more to keep your wages artificially high. I would rather you took a pay cut ...Simple maths really...I will still be paying the same in tax regardless...and as I have stated if you guys dont get cut next year I will be otta here so one less sucker to pay your wages.

Ha Ha I'll ignore your first line?

Of course you would rather someone else pay part of your share for you , it's still not fair though is it.

What do I earn and who do I work for?

almighty1 · 15-12-2010 03:27PM

fliball123 wrote: »

Where have you disproved any of my arguments not once have you..I appologise if I blamed you in the wrong

You did and apology accepted.

Disproved argument - middle of the previous page.

Id say that the government will tackle the swollen numbers of the public sector before tackling the pay issue. They are less likely to irk the powerful unions by cutting numbers due to natural wastage than direct pay cuts.

fliball123 · 15-12-2010 03:28PM

The Muppet wrote: »

Ha Ha I'll ignore your first line?

Of course you would rather someone else pay part of your share for you , it's still not fair though is it.

Can you quantify that post????I pay my taxes to pay your over inflated wage and as stated the gov have precisely 13 pay cheques of mine to get the ps wage in order or I am leaving the country so either way its win win for me

The Muppet · 15-12-2010 03:30PM

fliball123 wrote: »

Can you quantify that post????I pay my taxes to pay your over inflated wage and as stated the gov have precisely 13 pay cheques of mine to get the ps wage in order or I am leaving the country so either way its win win for me

You haven't a clue what I earn or where I work , you would be better off sticking to fact rather than some of the made up crap you have been posting to date.

fliball123 · 15-12-2010 03:35PM

almighty1 wrote: »

You did and apology accepted.

Disproved argument - middle of the previous page.

Id say that the government will tackle the swollen numbers of the public sector before tackling the pay issue. They are less likely to irk the powerful unions by cutting numbers due to natural wastage than direct pay cuts.

I dont know you could be right personally the feeling I get is FF did not want to tackle the unions and which is why there have been no cuts this year...

fliball123 · 15-12-2010 03:36PM

The Muppet wrote: »

You haven't a clue what I earn or where I work , you would be better off sticking to fact rather than some of the made up crap you have been posting to date.

What have I made up??

Japer · 15-12-2010 03:39PM

fliball123 wrote: »

as stated the gov have precisely 13 pay cheques of mine to get the ps wage in order or I am leaving the country so either way its win win for me

I hope things work out for you.

A lot of the private sector are getting so pi**ed off at the ( overpaid and underperforming ) public sector ( the government and their 300,000 plus employees ) that a lot of ( non-public sector ) people have emigrated and will emigrate. A lot cannot unfortunately do so easily due to property in negative equity, kids in school etc. There is huge resentment at the fact the public sector is paid 49% per hour worked more, according to the governments own figures ( cso.ie ).
Why will not the state broadcaster or PrimeTime do a special feature on it ? Is it because so many in RTE are fat-cats or in well paid union jobs ?

Riskymove · 15-12-2010 03:46PM

Japer wrote: »

There is huge resentment at the fact the public sector is paid 49% per hour worked more, according to the governments own figures ( cso.ie ).
Why will not the state broadcaster or PrimeTime do a special feature on it ? Is it because so many in RTE are fat-cats or in well paid union jobs ?

again?

as you keep ignoring the point I have reported the post

fliball123 · 15-12-2010 03:48PM

Riskymove wrote: »

again?

as you keep ignoring the point I have reported the post

What post was that Risky?

almighty1 · 15-12-2010 03:52PM

fliball123 wrote: »

What post was that Risky?

His continuation and repetition. Inflammatory and unnecessary. Being the OP he already got his point across and doesnt need to inflame the situation when it doesnt warrant it.

He obviously has an agenda for whatever reason and is not adding anything worthwhile to the debate.

fliball123 · 15-12-2010 03:57PM

almighty1 wrote: »

His continuation and repetition. Inflammatory and unnecessary. Being the OP he already got his point across and doesnt need to inflame the situation when it doesnt warrant it.

He obviously has an agenda for whatever reason and is not adding anything worthwhile to the debate.

But this is what the debate is about I brought in two other measurements that shows the P.S is overpaid which no one commented on and I asked why new entrants are getting 10% hardly seems fair if the p.s think they are being paid properly...I mean you cannot have it both ways

And of course he has an agenda like the me and the rest of the suffering tax payer who is not getting value for money by paying the amount we are paying in public sector wages and think that it could be used in other areas

But selective post returns are also the norm for the pro ps on this as stated no one can say why new entrants are getting 10% less?

almighty1 · 15-12-2010 04:09PM

fliball123 wrote: »

But selective post returns are also the norm for the pro ps on this as stated no one can say why new entrants are getting 10% less?

Its an easy way for the government to cut wages long term without feeling the wrath from the unions. Eventually the new entrants (with their -10%) will outnumber the old guard therefore lowering the overall average PS wage (obviously this will take many years)

If you presume that the government placed this 10% figure as their idea that the PS were overpaid by this much, then you have a wild imagination.

Its obviously impossible to ascertain such a percentage across 300,000 different jobs in different areas. Even you understand that.

fliball123 · 15-12-2010 04:13PM

almighty1 wrote: »

Its an easy way for the government to cut wages long term without feeling the wrath from the unions. Eventually the new entrants (with their -10%) will outnumber the old guard therefore lowering the overall average PS wage (obviously this will take many years)

If you presume that the government placed this 10% figure as their idea that the PS were overpaid by this much, then you have a wild imagination.

Its obviously impossible to ascertain such a percentage across 300,000 different jobs in different areas. Even you understand that.

Yeah but your forgetting that we still have to pay the old gaurd their pensions and people are living longer and longer....The reason why is the gov know that teh P.S is overpaid and are afraid of unions to tackle the problem...No one has come up with a better opinion as to why the new entrants are paid 10% less

Its official : public sector pay per hour is 49% higher than private sector

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