Its official : public sector pay per hour is 49% higher than private sector

Japer wrote: »

The point is, as said before, The "secretary, accountant, vet, cleaner, office administrator,receptionist dentist, or dogsbody" in the public service simply should NOT have hourly earnings 49% more than the average "secretary, accountant, vet, cleaner, office administrator, receptionist, dentist, or dogsbody" in the private service.

How many times are you going to repeat such blatant misrepresentations just in order to stir up things?

Why are you allowed to continue?

How many times have you been banned for this kind of rubbish?

the stats you linked do not have one shred of evidence to say such claims

ebbsy wrote: »

You got it in one mate.

Now if you could excuse me I have to go and take another week off sick, while the queries that I deal with from the public fall into a black hole.

yeah do you know what your post would be funny bar the numerous scandals coming out of the public sector and Quangos where will I begin

hows about the prime time special done on care for the elderly while the gov just cut carers allowance

FAS

ESB - top man earning 750 and still charging ever increasing prices

Ministers getting paid as being in the dail even do they are somewhere else

Child abuse scandals

Guards being paid an allowance for being on holiday and not being able to avail of overtime

Contniuous payments to P.S via the Nat wage aggreement

Hairy Marney or Mary harneys make up bill

Having to pay more to get a passport quicker???

HSE too many to mention here but slush funds, x-rays, cancer diagnosis the list is endless

Most procurement by gov over the last number of years have been bought at over inflated prices

2 members of the gov sitting on AIB board and bonuses were still being paid till last week

Anglo - where were the p.s regulators

Lenny stopping the AIB bonuses and then paying 90 people out of the dept of finance as they are doing a super duper job

I could actually continue this list indefinately but you see my point its not actually funny infact where is my gun

fliball123 wrote: »

A hell of a lot more than educated people in the private sector...

Look all you public servants on here can argue that you got cut...and you did by 7-10%

the majority of the people on the live register came from the private sector they have been cut by a larger % over the last 2 years

and I for one will be voting for the party currently sein fein or FG who has prmomised to tackle the monster that is the public sector.......and I urge any other private sector employee to do the same...

I'm just wondering what actual figures you are basing that on and what your source is? Are you comparing like jobs with like jobs? I am also for reform of the public sector in the areas that need it, but not in terms of the sweeping all round changes that a number of people are advocating here on the basis of assumptions formed through the reading of a very general set of figures. I don't see this as a them versus us situation that some posters on both sides quite clearly are - I am just asking for a bit of accuracy and commonsense in terms of the reform quite clearly needed.

Japer wrote: »

In fairness to Lenehan , our FF finance minister, he was on the RTE news at one yesterday saying how he thought the public service were overpaid / how social partnership with the unions done so much damage to the country. Yet he is unwilling to take on the public sector unions, he knows he will be out of government in the next few months + he is leaving it up to the next government ( possibly under the direction of the IMF ) to take the chainsaw to the Croke Park Agreement.

That is exactly what will happen, the PS problems should have been dealt with 2 years ago but haven’t. It eventually will be by force and when it does I will laugh my ass off at all the smug PS types I know of when they get the reality check they are long over due.
While the basic pay of a lot of lower PS workers may not be excessive, your entitlements across the board are; massive tax free lump sums on retirement, golden handshakes, retiring at 55 ffs, social welfare on maternity leave, the list goes on...
and in return we get scandal after scandal, misappropriated funds with no prosecutions, criminal levels of wastage, continued empty promises of reform, strikes and rabble rabble excuses when questioned about your shortcomings. Total BS and ye know it.
Bottom line, the PS is overcompensated and not worth its salt, period!

lyverbird1 wrote: »

I was wondering about the figures in terms of what actual take home pay this is all being based on and what a corresponding private sector worker earns, not in terms of a pay cut whose percentage differs depending on what area of the ps they are in/length of service etc...

The one measurement that any arguement that a P.S worker cannot stand up to is the fact that the average tax payer has had their wage cut by a hell of a lot more than the P.S wage has come down.

Sure bonuses are still being paid as are increments in pay under the national wage aggrement..

If I the tax payer is struggling to pay for nessecities that I need surely the P.S have to have cut in wage in order to stop more tax coming out of my take home pay..

For example 1 get 100 euro a week part of my outgoings is I pay a guy 35 euro to do some function.

I get cut to 70 Euro I surely cannot expect to still pay 35 Euro to this Guy. Either we renegotiate or I say well thanks but no thanks I need the money for food and other essentials

But under the CPA we cannot do this is outragous...

as i say I was a person asking for the P.S to be benchmarked against both the private sector here and other E.U countries and when compared the P.S in Ireland compare quite favorable in comparison to both...So now when this is presented you get the ahh sure the average isnt a proper measurement when it actually is...It means that those at the top need to be cut down and Lenny has tried to do that by capping at 250k

But the one measuement is the above outlined that the tax payer will still be paying the same amount next year for public servants as they did this year even do their take home pay is going to be seriously hit??

irishh_bob wrote: »

agreed , ps workers should not be benchmarked against private sector workers, instead they should be benchmarked against public servants in other european countries

I assume cost of living would be factored into such a comparison?

irishh_bob wrote: »

sinn fein are on record as being against any public sector job losses

True but they will cut thier wage

The one measurement that any arguement that a P.S worker cannot stand up to is the fact that the average tax payer has had their wage cut by a hell of a lot more than the P.S wage has come down.

This is not true. Show me any statistic that shows this. And if you cannot and are only making it up, as seems likely, then go and post in After Hours. This forum is supposed to be for serious discussion based on facts.

ardmacha wrote: »

This is not true. Show me any statistic that shows this. And if you cannot and are only making it up, as seems likely, then go and post in After Hours. This forum is supposed to be for serious discussion based on facts.

Well you can do the math how much of a hit has the p.s taken...and anyone here who includes a contribution to a defined benefit ie the pension levy is not being serious...

And then take what the average tax payer will be taking home in the new year as apposed to 2/3 years ago...

My point being next year I will be down about 250 a month and the P.S pay will not have come down.

And ask yourself why are new entrants to the P.S being paid 10% less???

And why is it that no P.S new entrant will ever enter the P.S on the minimum wage(not even the old min wage)

Sure there is a stat at as the opening post but yet the P.S will say the average is not an accurate account...We say you have been compared to other countries in the EU ...ahh sure the cost of living is more over there

and then when I say the average tax payer will be taking home less money next year than this and yet the P.S pay has not been cut you say I am not having a serious descussion...Will you please stop talking out of both ends

fliball123 wrote: »

The one measurement that any arguement that a P.S worker cannot stand up to is the fact that the average tax payer has had their wage cut by a hell of a lot more than the P.S wage has come down.

Sure bonuses are still being paid as are increments in pay under the national wage aggrement..

If I the tax payer is struggling to pay for nessecities that I need surely the P.S have to have cut in wage in order to stop more tax coming out of my take home pay..

For example 1 get 100 euro a week part of my outgoings is I pay a guy 35 euro to do some function.

I get cut to 70 Euro I surely cannot expect to still pay 35 Euro to this Guy. Either we renegotiate or I say well thanks but no thanks I need the money for food and other essentials

But under the CPA we cannot do this is outragous...

as i say I was a person asking for the P.S to be benchmarked against both the private sector here and other E.U countries and when compared the P.S in Ireland compare quite favorable in comparison to both...So now when this is presented you get the ahh sure the average isnt a proper measurement when it actually is...It means that those at the top need to be cut down and Lenny has tried to do that by capping at 250k

But the one measuement is the above outlined that the tax payer will still be paying the same amount next year for public servants as they did this year even do their take home pay is going to be seriously hit??

But 'this guy' is not getting the amount you say you are still paying. I fully understand your frustration and your desire to look after your own corner, but we have also taken pay cuts so part of that €35 is now going elsewhere to pay for the mistakes of people much higher up on the executive scale that have put us where we are. Myself and my husband both work, me in the public sector and he in the private sector, we have both taken huge hits and are now having to work a lot harder to pay the bills and make ends meet. We do not and never did lead some kind of extravagant lifestyle (i.e. I'm not miffed at having to give up my morning beluga caviar on toast points or the fortnightly shopping trips to London or Paris) but we do now more or less live from week to week, waiting for the wages to roll in. I guess I want my main point to be is that some of us have been badly hit as well and it is extremely frustrating to see people using generalised figures to say how overpaid we ALL are when we have many of the same frustrations and financial difficulties. It's also why I'm asking questions as to where people are getting their figures and what comparisons they are using rather than going on the attack, my enquiries are genuine and I hope are taken as such.

fliball123 wrote: »

The one measurement that any arguement that a P.S worker cannot stand up to is the fact that the average tax payer has had their wage cut by a hell of a lot more than the P.S wage has come down.

Have you a source to support that or is it just your own personal opinion.

fliball123 wrote: »

Sure bonuses are still being paid as are increments in pay under the national wage aggrement..

If I the tax payer is struggling to pay for nessecities that I need surely the P.S have to have cut in wage in order to stop more tax coming out of my take home pay..

For example 1 get 100 euro a week part of my outgoings is I pay a guy 35 euro to do some function.

I get cut to 70 Euro I surely cannot expect to still pay 35 Euro to this Guy. Either we renegotiate or I say well thanks but no thanks I need the money for food and other essentials

But under the CPA we cannot do this is outragous....

Your tax is paying for necessities that you need, Public Sector workers are paid to deliver those services.

fliball123 wrote: »

as i say I was a person asking for the P.S to be benchmarked against both the private sector here and other E.U countries and when compared the P.S in Ireland compare quite favorable in comparison to both...So now when this is presented you get the ahh sure the average isnt a proper measurement when it actually is...It means that those at the top need to be cut down and Lenny has tried to do that by capping at 250k

But the one measuement is the above outlined that the tax payer will still be paying the same amount next year for public servants as they did this year even do their take home pay is going to be seriously hit??

Comparing selected figures here such as one sectors pay with figures in other european countries is pointless, if we are to go that route everything should be compared and the neccessary changes made. As i have already shown all sectors wages are higher in Ireland than elsewhere.

lyverbird1 wrote: »

But 'this guy' is not getting the amount you say you are still paying. I fully understand your frustration and your desire to look after your own corner, but we have also taken pay cuts so part of that €35 is now going elsewhere to pay for the mistakes of people much higher up on the executive scale that have put us where we are. Myself and my husband both work, me in the public sector and he in the private sector, we have both taken huge hits and are now having to work a lot harder to pay the bills and make ends meet. We do not and never did lead some kind of extravagant lifestyle (i.e. I'm not miffed at having to give up my morning beluga caviar on toast points or the fortnightly shopping trips to London or Paris) but we do now more or less live from week to week, waiting for the wages to roll in. I guess I want my main point to be is that some of us have been badly hit as well and it is extremely frustrating to see people using generalised figures to say how overpaid we ALL are when we have many of the same frustrations and financial difficulties. It's also why I'm asking questions as to where people are getting their figures and what comparisons they are using rather than going on the attack, my enquiries are genuine and I hope are taken as such.

True look I wish it were different I wish we had the money to be paying it but the fact is that we are tiltering towards the point of diminishing returns...I would say I am indicitive of the tax payer out there and at present emigration is looking a more attractive proposition...What happens when more and more people who were contributing to the tax talke leave..and my little scenario I have the choice to stop paying this 35 but in this country there is not even the likelyhood of a negotiation...

so in 2014 I just cannot see a senario where there are fair fewer people in the private sector and the public sector still at full tilt..

and no one has answered the big pink elephant question why are new entrants to the p.s being paid 10% ???? Answers below