Its official : public sector pay per hour is 49% higher than private sector

RobbieTheRobber · 14-12-2010 05:51PM

Japer wrote: »

Public service wages in our nearest neighbour, who happens to be a G7 country and who is helping to bail us out, are considerably lower. When you go to Newry or London are you worried about 17 year old's on minimum wage administering to your child in A&E ?

When you say considerable can you give a monetary value please as my considerbale and your considerable may be considerably different.

Japer · 14-12-2010 06:00PM

That has been discussed to death in other threads, I do not have the time to look for it now.

I will take back the word considerable so ; I do not think you will deny that our public servants are paid more on average than those, for example, in N. Ireland.

Even if you got the statistic again, you would probably dispute it. This thread is about the difference between hourly wage levels between the public and private sector in this country, 49% is what the CSO says, and you dispute that ?

Riskymove · 14-12-2010 06:02PM

Japer wrote: »

This thread is about the difference between hourly wage levels between the public and private sector in this country, 49% is what the CSO says, and you dispute that ?

what is being disputed, as always, is your deliberate misrepresentation of the statistics, nothing more

RobbieTheRobber · 14-12-2010 06:02PM

Japer wrote: »

Public service wages in our nearest neighbour, who happens to be a G7 country and who is helping to bail us out, are considerably lower. When you go to Newry or London are you worried about 17 year old's on minimum wage administering to your child in A&E ?

If i went to newry is anything else lower than in eire?

What are the average private sector wages in the Uk versus Ireland?

Japer · 14-12-2010 06:05PM

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

If i went to newry is anything else lower than in eire?

The amount of time public servants spend on paid half day Xmas shopping trips, or to cash non-existant pay cheques, or time spent on the 'net ?

Its not just public sector wages that are nearly half there, social welfare is nearly half too.

RobbieTheRobber · 14-12-2010 06:20PM

Japer wrote: »

The amount of time public servants spend on paid half day Xmas shopping trips, or to cash non-existant pay cheques, or time spent on the 'net ?

huh?
One would assume the4 amount fo time spent on a half day shopping was well, half a day.

Is there some other measurement for half a day that i am missing?

Its not just public sector wages that are nearly half there, social welfare is nearly half too.

what?????

Turnstyle · 14-12-2010 06:39PM

Ye can argue stats all day, bottom line is the PS is strangling this country and change is inevitable but it will be far too over due. Think about the massive increases in PS numbers and pay from 2001 to date.. Why was it all necessary? It wasn’t and you can blame our sh*tbox government policies and practices for your forthcoming redundancies and wage cuts. PS are even still hiring even though there is a supposed block in place, BS. All the reports and money you can throw at it wont fix the problems, its outdated and dysfunctional with zero accountability, biggest problem being the peoples attitude within it (and I mean at a higher level), a very strong leader is what’s needed to tackle the problems head on. This country is going down the pan and the worst is yet to come for it, not until its on its last knees will the problem in the PS be tackled properly, a sad sad truth.

irishh_bob · 14-12-2010 06:45PM

sollar wrote: »

I seem to remember people being paid vast sums for lagging blocks around a building site.

true , they were earning in or around a grand or 1200 per week , same as the average guard was on at the time

WalterMitty · 14-12-2010 06:59PM

irishh_bob wrote: »

true , they were earning in or around a grand or 1200 per week , same as the average guard was on at the time

but the builder didnt have the DB pension,job security, retirement at 55 etc and as it's so tough his body will be wrecked by 50

The Muppet · 14-12-2010 08:04PM

Japer wrote: »

Rubbish. I do not recall a direct post to me ...and even if you did I cannot read and respond to every post everywhere - I am not on the computer 24/7. And as for " many days ago in this thread" ....this thread is only 6 or 7 hours old.

I put a direct question to you earlier looking for a source for the information you posted about public service security guards earning more that private sector ones. You have not answered. Your lack of a reply leads me to assume that you simply made up that information yourself. You can't expect to be taken seriously if that is the level of your contribution to a debate.

kippy · 14-12-2010 08:08PM

Japer wrote: »

Public service paybill in 1999 was only 9 billion. And things were not that bad them we still had some sort of a public service, a health system, a police force + judicary system then etc. Even the dogs in the street know the public service is over-personelled, overpaid and over-pensioned now. And do'nt crib about inflation. I know of properties which were sold recently for less than its 1999 value. Lidl and Penneys are selling stuff for less than they were in 1999. Your employer cannot afford to continue giving you a 49% premium, thats all.

Lets go back to 1999 levels, no problems, no issues at all there. Right across society. Lets do it tomorrow.

The Muppet · 14-12-2010 08:10PM

Are figures available anywhere that compares private secor wages in Ireland with comparable privates sector wages in the uk?

eric hoone · 14-12-2010 08:31PM

one thing we never lost in the celtic tiger or recession is our sense of begrudgery! i think this debate is very unhealthy. the only people entitled to outrage are the unemployed, so those of us lucky enough to have jobs should mind our own business

Sarn · 14-12-2010 08:35PM

Looking at the report it is clear that there is a much greater percentage of lower paid workers in retail, food service, arts, entertainment and recreation. I think it's fair to say that the public service would have a relatively low number of these roles. On this assumption they would account for close to 40% of the private pay bill (p 14). These sectors are also reported to have the lowest rates of pay (admin and support services excluded), p 6 of the report. In comparison the financial, insurance and real estate group are earning on average approximately 81% more then these groups. Understandably this would skew the averages when comparing public and private.

On the other end of the scale, employment in education accounts for ~27% of the PS, yet on an hourly basis averages out as 22% higher than the next highest average hourly pay rate (Financial, insurance and real estate).

Playing with the figures could serve many an argument, and given the nature of the report assumptions would need to be made, but claiming that average public sector pay per hour is 49% higher than the private sector is not comparing like with like (and no I'm not in a union).

avalon68 · 14-12-2010 08:36PM

dissed doc wrote: »

Private sector doctors make considerably more than their public sector counterparts.

Whats a private sector doctor? Do you mean a GP - who makes vast amounts of money off the public medical card scheme?

The Muppet · 14-12-2010 08:55PM

The Muppet wrote: »

Are figures available anywhere that compares private secor wages in Ireland with comparable privates sector wages in the uk?

Never mind I found one.

A Senior. Software Engineer / Developer / Programmer earns €51,677 in Ireland , in the UK he would earn £38,968 or €45 910 at todays exchange rate

An Office Administrator earns €25,720 in Ireland in the Uk he earns £16,134 or €19 005 at todays exchange rate

http://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Country=United_Kingdom/Salary

http://www.payscale.com/research/IE/Country=Ireland/Salary

The point of the excercise being to show that wage rates in all sectors in Ireland is Higher than those of our nearest neighbour and we all know the reasons for that.

irishh_bob · 14-12-2010 09:08PM

avalon68 wrote: »

Whats a private sector doctor? Do you mean a GP - who makes vast amounts of money off the public medical card scheme?

how they really milk it is due to the tightly controlled number of new entrants allowed in as new practicing GP,s , same deal with consultants

snickerpuss · 15-12-2010 11:04AM

Is it not true that the public sector would simply have a greater number of professionals rather than the lower-paid unskilled workers found more often in the private sector? Surely this is what's skewing the figures? Unless this is discussing like with like jobs is it not irrelevant?

galway2007 · 15-12-2010 11:11AM

avalon68 wrote: »

Whats a private sector doctor? Do you mean a GP - who makes vast amounts of money off the public medical card scheme?

Ya a Priavste sector Gp / doctor that has not cut there fees yes

galway2007 · 15-12-2010 11:15AM

irishh_bob wrote: »

how they really milk it is due to the tightly controlled number of new entrants allowed in as new practicing GP,s , same deal with consultants

Bob the IMF deal is about to sort that
A section off it deals with so called professional such as Accountants, doctors, dentists, solicitors ect who have ripped off Irish people
All restriction will be removed and they plan to flood Ireland with them to force down there fees

Japer · 15-12-2010 11:16AM

The "secretary, accountant, vet, cleaner, office administrator,receptionist dentist, or dogsbody" in the public service simply should NOT have hourly earnings 49% more than the average "secretary, accountant, vet, cleaner, office administrator, receptionist, dentist, or dogsbody" in the private service. I say this given the extra security + pension benefits etc in the public sector, and given the government is broke / the IMF is here.

fliball123 · 15-12-2010 11:19AM

Riskymove wrote: »

it would impossible to do this without a lot of raw data

even the cso does not collect the required data

Thats a cock shoot...everyone in the p.s pays tax so there should be a record of what everyone is earning its just needs to be correlated and then reported on

Riskymove · 15-12-2010 11:20AM

Japer wrote: »

The "secretary, accountant, vet, cleaner, office administrator,receptionist dentist, or dogsbody" in the public service simply should NOT have hourly earnings 49% more than the average "secretary, accountant, vet, cleaner, office administrator, receptionist, dentist, or dogsbody" in the private service.

another day another blatant misrepresentation

these stats make no such like for like comparison....as you well know

nothing more than an attempt to stir things up again.

fliball123 · 15-12-2010 11:20AM

sollar wrote: »

I seem to remember people being paid vast sums for lagging blocks around a building site.

When back in 2006 wouldnt get that now Sollar

fliball123 · 15-12-2010 11:21AM

Riskymove wrote: »

are these japer's classmates again?

who?? point being how can someone with no formal education get paid what these guys get paid

fliball123 · 15-12-2010 11:23AM

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

If we are doign that we shoudl also increase tax to EU average and lower minimum wage to EU average.
We should also introduce all the charges other EU states have such as france having tolls on most major routes

I believe we are well on the way to this and by 2014 we will probably be there or there abouts...what about the p.s wage do??

fliball123 · 15-12-2010 11:26AM

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

Whether you like it or not, these are only raw statistics, with no balance or actual comparison. Consider people working minimum wage or in MacDonalds etc - where is the equivalent worker in the Public Service?

Any Public Service workers I know would be better paid in Private Sector.

OP, your posts are little more than agendaist trolling.

Consider for a moment, who will scrape you up off the road if you do away with Public Service jobs, or make them untenable? Do you want a 17 year old on minimum wage administering to your child in A&E?

McDonalds = DoF

haha sorry couldnt resist...

but on a serious note this is what one poster has been asking for some refined data or information...IE take out the skewedness at the top or do other calcs such as the mean and break it down by dept and by job..The raw data does nothing except highlight how much overall the p.s is paid more than the private sector....

fliball123 · 15-12-2010 11:30AM

eric hoone wrote: »

one thing we never lost in the celtic tiger or recession is our sense of begrudgery! i think this debate is very unhealthy. the only people entitled to outrage are the unemployed, so those of us lucky enough to have jobs should mind our own business

Thats a b0ll0xology statement my taxes pay these wages so of coures I am entitled to be outraged

fliball123 · 15-12-2010 11:33AM

Sarn wrote: »

Looking at the report it is clear that there is a much greater percentage of lower paid workers in retail, food service, arts, entertainment and recreation. I think it's fair to say that the public service would have a relatively low number of these roles. On this assumption they would account for close to 40% of the private pay bill (p 14). These sectors are also reported to have the lowest rates of pay (admin and support services excluded), p 6 of the report. In comparison the financial, insurance and real estate group are earning on average approximately 81% more then these groups. Understandably this would skew the averages when comparing public and private.

On the other end of the scale, employment in education accounts for ~27% of the PS, yet on an hourly basis averages out as 22% higher than the next highest average hourly pay rate (Financial, insurance and real estate).

Playing with the figures could serve many an argument, and given the nature of the report assumptions would need to be made, but claiming that average public sector pay per hour is 49% higher than the private sector is not comparing like with like (and no I'm not in a union).

Sarn it still shows that they are nearly 50% overpaid even with skewdness I would have thaught this average deficit would be a lot less and makes even more of a mockery the fact that the gov are slashing the minimum wage...I bet you no one starts in the P.S on the minimum wage..so once again lets insuler the lads its a load of horlicks

Japer · 15-12-2010 11:35AM

fliball123 wrote: »

Thats a b0ll0xology statement my taxes pay these wages so of coures I am entitled to be outraged

+1. Not just our taxes are paying for government expenditure, but we are borrowing from our children and grandchildren to do so.

Its official : public sector pay per hour is 49% higher than private sector

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