Consultant Wanting to Induce - I'm not so sure

wmpdd3 · 09-12-2010 06:39PM

Das Kitty wrote: »

Good to know. Everyone on a pregnancy board I was on at the time was having them done, and repeatedly.

It's a really unpleasant procedure. I remember feeling so sick after and 3 hours later I was in agony.

In Ardkeen in Waterford sweeps seem to be automatic after you due date, according to the out patient que.

implausible · 09-12-2010 11:37PM

Das Kitty wrote: »

I spoke to another consultant after the birth and she told me that from her experience giving sweeps before the cervix dropped on first babies nearly always ended in intervention.

Das Kitty wrote: »

Good to know. Everyone on a pregnancy board I was on at the time was having them done, and repeatedly.

crazy cat lady wrote: »

Sweeps are not 'advised' anymore although many old school midwives and doctors will still perform them.

Oh my God:eek: This is the first time I've heard this and I lived on those boards coming up to my wee man's birth. He never dropped, I demanded a sweep and ended up with an emergency c-section. I don't blame the sweep, but I won't be asking for one again!

cynder · 10-12-2010 02:37PM

crazy cat lady wrote: »

Thats a very sad story and under those circumstances incuction was definately the best thing to do.

May I ask what your reasons are for fighting me at every corner here?

All I'm trying to get across is that induction isn't always the best option, and sometimes it is.

No a consultant isn't going to induce every woman on his private books, and a hospital isn't going to induce every woman because the roads are icy either!

Im not fighting you at ever corner and i totally agree with 'All I'm trying to get across is that induction isn't always the best option, and sometimes it is' as i have said that a few times, not that you acknowledged that i've said that in more than 1 post on this thread.

And as for 'No a consultant isn't going to induce every woman on his private books, and a hospital isn't going to induce every woman because the roads are icy either!' DID I SAY THAT? NO!!!!!

I said it would be a pro not a con considered they were offered an induction by the consultant. I did no way say that every woman should be offered an induction because of ice, in there situation they were offered an induction and i said it would be a pro under the current weather conditions.

Das Kitty · 10-12-2010 02:54PM

Can we calm it down a little folks?

Pat Is The Baker · 10-12-2010 11:18PM

Thanks for all the replies. What we have decided is that we are going to wait before we go ahead with the induction . Monday I am contacting the Consultant and confirming with him. I must say the Vhi Nurse line was so helpful when we contacted them and give me all the options and reasons why we may need to go early. So now it's just wishing and praying that labor happens soon.

cynder · 11-12-2010 09:06AM

Best wishes, hope all goes ok.

beachbabe · 11-12-2010 12:03PM

I was induced at 39 weeks for medical reasons, I was on heparin to prevent a DVT, as I had one a few years ago, and heparin can lead to complications with bleeding if an epidural or c-section is required. The consultant reccomended induction as controllong the timing of heparin doses, and getting me back on it asap after the birth was important.
I knew from early on I would be induced, and therefore knew the day baby would be born, which was odd!
I did not need the gel as I had started to dilate, just went in that morning for syntocin.
Apart from the syntocin, and having my waters broken, I needed no other intervention. The labour was intense, and fast, but no epidural, and the little man needed no help entering the world.
Just thought I would post this to show an induced labour does not always mess around with your birth plan, or lead to a cascade of interventions.

crazy cat lady · 11-12-2010 03:22PM

beachbabe wrote: »

I was induced at 39 weeks for medical reasons, I was on heparin to prevent a DVT, as I had one a few years ago, and heparin can lead to complications with bleeding if an epidural or c-section is required. The consultant reccomended induction as controllong the timing of heparin doses, and getting me back on it asap after the birth was important.
I knew from early on I would be induced, and therefore knew the day baby would be born, which was odd!
I did not need the gel as I had started to dilate, just went in that morning for syntocin.
Apart from the syntocin, and having my waters broken, I needed no other intervention. The labour was intense, and fast, but no epidural, and the little man needed no help entering the world.
Just thought I would post this to show an induced labour does not always mess around with your birth plan, or lead to a cascade of interventions.

Beachbabe, its great that you had a positive induction experience. I think that because you had started dilating and your body had started the process naturally that this would have made things a little easier.

There would've been a cascade of interventions, the artificial rupture of your membranes, the oxytocin and then, I'm sure you would've been on constant fetal monitoring? This would've restricted you during your labour and eliminated the possibility of walking or using the shower during your labour. This is fine as I'm sure you were prepared for this from early on in your pregnancy when induction would've first been discussed. However, to someone who has the possibility of induction sprung on them at 39 weeks (as Laurpat has) may find this distressing, especially if they have a very 'hands off/natural birth plan.

Anyway, its great that you can share your story for those who are going to need an induction. As I've said before, inductions can go well and you are a great example of this.

@ Laurpat: Its great that you are seeking lots of advice before agreeing to be induced. Make sure that whatever you decide is for the right reasons for you and your husband, and be sure that you are aware of the process before you begin it should you be induced.

@ grindelwald: I'm sorry if I've misunderstood you throughout this thread. It just seems that you have disagreed with some of the things I have spoken about (playing around with nature unnecessarily, being induced without medical necessity, what Consultants do and don't do to suit their social calendar) Its my profession and I like to think that as I am speaking from experience and from my professional education, that I do know what I am talking about.

I hope that some of what I have said has been useful - and judging by the amount of 'thanks' I have for some of my posts it has.

Good luck to all you girls in the decisions that you make! I look forward to hearing about your bundles of joy over in the newborn and toddlers forum very very soon

BengaLover · 11-12-2010 03:26PM

My advice for what its worth.
Dont be bullied, if your baby is healthy and happy where it is, leave it be.
6lbs is not particularly small - but there is no way really they can be completely accurate with a weight whilst baby is still in fetus.
As for the whole 'overdue' debate, I dont know how long they 'leave' ladies now, but back in the day (i had my first in 1995) it was up and over 10 days, but with good monitoring.

Pat Is The Baker · 11-12-2010 06:21PM

No need for induction after all, water broke this morning and we're in the labor ward now... will be posting an update soon I hope...

Come on Mum and Junior , yee can do it...

January · 11-12-2010 06:31PM

Wohoo

Let us know!!

BengaLover · 11-12-2010 06:37PM

aw, keep us posted..First for boards.ie eh?

crazy cat lady · 11-12-2010 06:47PM

laurpat wrote: »

No need for induction after all, water broke this morning and we're in the labor ward now... will be posting an update soon I hope...

Come on Mum and Junior , yee can do it...

Best of luck

And turn your phone off in the labour ward

cynder · 11-12-2010 07:13PM

best of luck,
can we now place bets on a 11/12/2010 or a 12/12/2010 baby?

January · 11-12-2010 07:37PM

grindelwald wrote: »

best of luck,
can we now place bets on a 11/12/2010 or a 12/12/2010 baby?

12/12/2010

Pat Is The Baker · 13-12-2010 01:40AM

What a few days... 36 hrs of labor and our beautiful baby boy has come into the world at a weight of 6 lbs 4 oz. He arrived on the 22/12

I'll fill you all in with the details in a later post right now I need sleep - All went well overall...

How Strange · 13-12-2010 07:15AM

^^^ fantastic news! Congrats!

crazy cat lady · 13-12-2010 09:29AM

Congratulations

Cat Melodeon · 15-12-2010 10:56PM

Just saw this thread - congrats laurpat!

I'd just like to add my story for anyone reading the thread at a later date. I had my boy in Aug 2009. I was the complete opposite of those who see induction as a convenience - I wanted to avoid one at all costs, wanted as natural and intervention-free a birth as possible. At 2 weeks before my due date, induction was first mentioned (coincidentally my consultant was heading off for 2 weeks of golf around that time). I dug my heels in as there was nothing medically wrong with me or the baby. I was then told my baby was 'very big' and I might not be able to deliver him if I went much further over. I asked for a second opinion, was sent to the consultant's registrar (I think that's the right term?) who had a quick feel of my tummy, said the baby was no where near being ready and sent me on my way. I'd had some issues with high blood pressure from about the 7th month so was coming in regularly for monitoring anyway.

By 3 days over, that registrar was also away so I had to deal with a different doctor again. He was also a bit antsy about me being let go 'over' (everyone seems to have forgotten that 42 weeks is as normal a gestation for a first-time mother as 39 weeks) and was trying to tell me that the placenta would have stopped working by this stage (???). He was slightly aggressive in his insistence that I stay in - only for the midwives supporting me it could have turned nasty. He also insisted on me having a sweep. Luckily a junior doctor came in to perform it and decided my cervix was still too high and left me alone.

From +4 days to +8 days nothing changed, all fine.

+9 days and a different consultant again. He expressed concern that the fluid levels had dropped and that there was a risk that there was meconium in the fluid. At this, I readily agreed to being admitted (finally a medical reason!) and was induced using the gels the next morning.

My labour was fine - 4 hours start to finish. I was not internally examined at all, I was aided by the midwives and there was no doctor in the room until after the baby was born. I was offered gas and air, but nothing else as per my wishes. I was put on a monitor and that did restrict my movement and stop me from using the tens machine, but luckily it didn't interfere with anything else. I gave birth naturally, had quite a bit of tearing but it was mostly superficial and was caused by me not listening to the midwives when they told me to stop pushing. That's the only thing I would change about the experience.

There was meconium in the fluid, the last consultant was right, but there was nothing wrong with the baby or the placenta (they were not 'overcooked') and although he was quite big (9lb 6) he still got himself out with just me helping him.

So my advice to anyone who is being induced is:

- make sure the doctor is recommending induction for clear medical reasons.

- doctors are mostly great, but they are not infallible. Always get a second opinion before embarking on something as significant as induction.

- don't neglect to ask your midwives for advice. They may know the doctor's track record and set your mind at ease regarding his motives (I can be a cynic but I'm sure many doctors are 100% following the mother's/baby's interests).

- being induced does not mean a natural birth is out of the question. Stay in control and let your midwives know your wishes.

How Strange · 16-12-2010 07:29AM

Thanks for your post Cat Melodeon. Like you I want a natural birth with as few interventions as possible. Well done for knowing what you wanted and standing your ground.

I can only imagine as a first time mum it is difficult to question a doctor when all you want is your babys safety.

cynder · 16-12-2010 09:08AM

Cat Melodeon wrote: »

+9 days and a different consultant again. He expressed concern that the fluid levels had dropped and that there was a risk that there was meconium in the fluid. At this, I readily agreed to being admitted (finally a medical reason!) and was induced using the gels the next morning.

There was meconium in the fluid, the last consultant was right, but there was nothing wrong with the baby or the placenta (they were not 'overcooked') and although he was quite big (9lb 6) he still got himself out with just me helping him.

.

You were fare lucky that the baby didn't swallow any of the meconium, my nephew did and he was in ICU for 2 weeks. (natural labour, he got distressed and they did an emergency c-section)

Cat Melodeon · 18-12-2010 09:26PM

How Strange wrote: »

Well done for knowing what you wanted and standing your ground.

I can only imagine as a first time mum it is difficult to question a doctor when all you want is your babys safety.

As a first timer, I found it really hard. My post makes it seem like I was all confident - I really wasn't. I was in tears with the nasty doctor and only for the midwives and my brilliant husband, I probably would have given in at that point. It is sooo hard to go against a doctor's wishes, even when you know that what they are telling you isn't right. That's why the second opinion is so important, you need to have that assurance from a different doctor that your gut feeling is actually right. I had also been using the Gentlebirth relaxation CDs and found them great for helping me stay in control - can't recommend them enough.

grindelwald wrote: »

You were fare lucky that the baby didn't swallow any of the meconium, my nephew did and he was in ICU for 2 weeks. (natural labour, he got distressed and they did an emergency c-section)

I know, it is rare that they actually swallow the meconium but when they do, it is very stressful for them. That's why I agreed to the induction as soon as there was a risk of this, it's not something you want to mess about with.

SanFran07 · 20-12-2010 10:53AM

Cat - there's a very interesting thread on RC of a first time Mum who refused induction and went 20 days over. She was treated really badly for refusing to follow the hospital policy but gave birth to a healthy baby on her terms - although it was made very difficult for her.

Just on meconium in the waters - it is very rate for a healthy baby to inhale amniotic fluid during birth as their breathing movements slow down once labour kicks in. It's quite common to see meconium in the waters of an overdue baby due to the baby's gut maturing - as long as baby is healthy and remains so during the birth meconium is not always an ominous sign. Meconium can occur during pregnancy too so an induction doesn't prevent it - and if we consider that induction itself creates additional stress on the baby it could in fact be the induction that caused the meconium.... The Mum on RC had no meconium in the waters even that far over.

It's also harder for a baby to clear his airways in a caesarean section (the babies don't get the chest squeezing that's such an important part of a vaginal birth which helps drain liquid from the baby's airway).

It makes more sense to avoid interventions that can cause stress for the baby such as breaking the waters, pitocin, purple pushing and assisted births.

lynski · 21-12-2010 02:22PM

Saw this on RC and thought about this thread, here is an unnecessary induction leading to an ECS... how many times does this happen?

http://www.rollercoaster.ie/mumstobe/mc.asp?ID=760924&G=61&forumdb=9

Hi girls.
Was brought into hosp on Wednesday 8th at 8am for induction cos was told was having big baby and they wanted to induce me on my due date. by friday morning after 3 attempts of induction gel I hadn't even moved a milimetre so a c-section was decided. Went down for c-section at 1pm and after half an hour of trying to get local anaesthetic done it failed. my partner wasn't allowed in at this stage cos I had to be knocked out n have general anaesthetic so he panicked. it was horrible not seeing him before been knocked out.
Baby Shance was born at 14.33 weighing 7lbs8ozs (not such a big baby but very long!),

When I came around in the recovery room I was then told I was been brought to Intensive care cos my oxygen levels dropped rapidly during the section. I got to see Shane for 10 mins, he was perfect and that was the main thing. Partner was very upset, he thought I was gone when intensive care was mentioned. Spent night in ICU but got to see Shane for half an hour which was great. I eventually got hime after spending one full week in hosp which was longest week of my life. settling in now to motherhood and it's the best feeling in the world. congrats to all you mums out there and best of luck to the rest of ye. Have a great Xmas and all the very best to you, your new babies and families in the new year xxxxxx

January · 21-12-2010 02:28PM

lynski wrote: »

Saw this on RC and thought about this thread, here is an unnecessary induction leading to an ECS... how many times does this happen?

http://www.rollercoaster.ie/mumstobe/mc.asp?ID=760924&G=61&forumdb=9

Same experience as me, but I was not brought to ICU... They said my induction was necessary as my waters had broken, but only a small bit of my waters went and they had to break the sac anyway...

lynski · 21-12-2010 02:39PM

Going to also link to this thread, it is long, but it is worth reading the entire thing. Great story, but wow she had so much tenacity and gumption, i really do not think that she should have needed to fight so much.
The short version: First time Dublin Mum refuses routine induction and gives birth to a healthy 7lb 5oz baby at 43 weeks + - but not before she is harassed and bullied by the Medical profession.

http://rollercoaster.ie/boards/mc.asp?ID=369171&G=18&forumdb=1
This is how the story starts:

Posted by:- piccolo Send PM ID:- 48835 Date:- 03/12/2010 12:41

Hi ladies,

I'm currently 10 days overdue and booked into NMH next Monday for a term+13 scan to assess fluid and placental function etc.

My problem is: I really really do NOT want to be induced and I feel I will have no choice once I cross the threshold of NMH on Monday morning because they prob won't let me go home and will want to induce.

So what are my options?? Am I mad to refuse an induction because of risk of stillbirth? What if everything is fine fluid-wise and placenta-wise? How quickly can that change? My MW said she's working in NMH 6 yrs and has never seen a patient allowed to come in daily for monitoring after 42 weeks. I'm absolutely gutted because I really want a natural birth and wanted to stay at home as long as possible.

Any advice would really be appreciated as I don't want to risk the baby's wellbeing but I want to feel a bit in control too and not just being told I HAVE to be induced. Aaaah!

crazy cat lady · 21-12-2010 03:06PM

I think a lot of 'post dates inductions' could be avoided if there were more early scans.

In the UK it is routine to scan around 12 weeks so that the pregnancy can be assessed and dated accurately.

I think we all know how unpredicatable a womans cycle can be, and not everyone ovulates on day 14! Just ovulating a few days later may infact date the pregnancy a bit earlier and in turn lead to unnecessary induction. I know they date the pregnancy at the 20 week anomoly scan, but the gold standard is to date the pregnancy during the first 12 weeks when they can measure the sac and the fetus the most accurately.

In an ideal world, women would be given more choice and support in the decisions they make. Yes it can be risky going over 42 weeks, but with proper monitoring it doesn't have to end in disaster waiting to labour naturally. Unfortunately the resources or finances just aren't there to make this possible, and in a culture where litigation is so common, consultants do not want to take any risks. It sucks but its the way it is! I don't think its gonna change a whole lot in my lifetime either!

jimmyendless · 21-12-2010 03:20PM

SanFran07 wrote: »

Cat - there's a very interesting thread on RC of a first time Mum who refused induction and went 20 days over. She was treated really badly for refusing to follow the hospital policy but gave birth to a healthy baby on her terms - although it was made very difficult for her.

Just on meconium in the waters - it is very rate for a healthy baby to inhale amniotic fluid during birth as their breathing movements slow down once labour kicks in. It's quite common to see meconium in the waters of an overdue baby due to the baby's gut maturing - as long as baby is healthy and remains so during the birth meconium is not always an ominous sign. Meconium can occur during pregnancy too so an induction doesn't prevent it - and if we consider that induction itself creates additional stress on the baby it could in fact be the induction that caused the meconium.... The Mum on RC had no meconium in the waters even that far over.

It's also harder for a baby to clear his airways in a caesarean section (the babies don't get the chest squeezing that's such an important part of a vaginal birth which helps drain liquid from the baby's airway).

It makes more sense to avoid interventions that can cause stress for the baby such as breaking the waters, pitocin, purple pushing and assisted births.

I don't get how some women want an induction or c-section. If labour is let start naturally, you are saving yourself alot of trouble in the long term and could be heading home the day after.

C-section is a major operation with a considerable healing time, it is distressing for the mother and baby, the sqeezing of the babies lungs doesn't take place and that has further implications. The epidural procedure itself isn't great and causes drowsy babies which causes them to have trouble breastfeeding. Breastfeeding is made more difficult because mother can't hold baby as easily. Then mother doesn't BF and has greater likelyhood of PND, baby isn't getting breastmilk and will be more susceptible to collic. All these interventions can have negative longterm consequences. Eveer step of natural birth seems to have a purpose.

Of course all these things might not happen but once intervention starts, the chance of more interventions increases dramtically. The more natural you can keep it, the better.

PopUp · 21-12-2010 04:29PM

Well Jimmy very few people want to be induced, but going so far postdates is a very good medical reason to do it. The rate of stillbirths absolutely skyrockets the further past your due date you go. (That's a link to a, em, very outspoken US doctor - but the medical science is accurate and she's absolutely right about the article she's talking about - I couldn't believe the Guardian published it, so irresponsible).

I was following that Rollercoaster thread and I actually have to say, I found it shocking. I couldn't believe how many posters were dishing out medical advice without ever having met the woman, seen her charts or test results. It was actually awful. I've bumped up against the "no medical advice" rule here on Boards before, but that thread gave me new appreciation for it. Randomers on the internet SHOULD NOT be advising strangers to ignore their midwives and doctors.

I am delighted everything worked out well for that lady, and her baby was born happy and healthy and did not experience the problems that overdue babies are so prone to. Though I would point out that it sounds like the lady DID opt for an induction at 43 + 1! And in the middle of the night. So it's not exactly a sign that going to 43 weeks is perfectly safe and baby will come eventually. She gambled on the statistics, and thankfully, she (or rather her baby) won. But that doesn't mean it was a sensible thing to do. (I think crazy cat lady is right and her dates were probably off, though she insists on the thread they're not).

I think it's a shame she met some very rude doctors. But I also don't think it's correct to say she was harassed by them all. The Master of Holles Street wasn't ringing her multiple times to harass her, it was because they were really worried about her.

lonestargirl · 21-12-2010 04:36PM

jimmyendless wrote: »

I don't get how some women want an induction or c-section. If labour is let start naturally, you are saving yourself alot of trouble in the long term and could be heading home the day after.

Could being the inmportant part of this sentence for me. I agree that a straightforward natural birth is best for mam + baby but since there is no way to guarantee this will happen I have opted for an elective C-Section.

jimmyendless wrote: »

C-section is a major operation with a considerable healing time, it is distressing for the mother and baby, the sqeezing of the babies lungs doesn't take place and that has further implications. The epidural procedure itself isn't great and causes drowsy babies which causes them to have trouble breastfeeding.

I am prepared to put myself at extra risk to prevent some of the (very rare) risks of a natural birth to my baby. Not a chance I would have birth without an epidural either way, so this is not an issue specific to a CS.

I feel this is an issue that every woman must decide for themselves, in consultation with their doctor, and I hope everyone gets the kind of birth they would prefer.

Consultant Wanting to Induce - I'm not so sure

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