Price of the Pint - What would make you go back to the pub ?

ardinn · 09-12-2010 08:15PM

PeakOutput wrote: »

because the estimate that makes up the bulk of your 1.5million figure is wrong. the average wage is not 15euro an hour and there arent 50 people working there over the course of an entire day not to mind in one night. your other estimates i am prepared to accept but as i said i would say you are over estimating the cost of labour by about double

I said 40 people also.

ardinn · 09-12-2010 08:17PM

bog master wrote: »

Just a point here as one who enjoys his few pints and has intimate knowlede of the pub trade in a RURAL area.

Most people are not aware of Health & Safety regulations and the cost involved in serving any kind of prepared ie cooked food. Several years ago, one of the three locals used to serve homemade soup, made by the publicans partner and simple sandwiches, toasted ham and cheese. Told
to STOP, as the the soup ingredients could not be traced. The sandwiches were made behind the bar in a secure area, all ingredients in a fridge. NOT ON says the health board. Publican was advised you have to put in a proper kitchen. Not having the space and with a estimated cost of tiled floors, tiled walls or stainless steal, extractors fans, one sink for washing up when handling a vegetable, one sink for when handling a meat, and one general washing up sink, along with a separate toliet for kitchen staff, he gave up.

So to serve that bit of food, is not as easy as some make it out to be.

But I stress, I am not talking large town, city type pubs!

On to cheap pints now! One of the locals is doing a deal on lagers, Carlsberg and Bud I believe. 4 pints for €11.00. It seems from reports,I ,have not been there, the "regulars" are switching from stout or whatever, and the custom has not really increased by much. Another sad side effect seems to be more trouble on the weekend, when lads totally go mad, just to get pissed because they perceive the drink to be cheap and half a good reason to do just that.
But at the end of the day, I prefer to go into a pub where the service is good,the atmosphere and decor welcomng, warm and clean, and my mates are. I go for the good time, not to get drunk!

Good post - we put a small kitchen into one of our pubs 3 years ago - 1.5 chef kitchen - medium output - 200 per day MAX - Cost of kitchen was €144,000.00

bog master · 09-12-2010 08:19PM

ardinn wrote: »

O.K. say barmen are on €12 head barmen and supervisors on €13 doormen on €18 and head and supervisory doormen on €20 Manager on €20 cleaners on €9

For 900 - you need
10 cleaners / back bar/ cloak room - €90
18 doormen - 1 per 50 patrons - recommended €324
12-14 barmen € 143
2-3- supervisors €30
2 managers €40 - €5016 minimum = €782,500 Minimum - so say €800k

Taking my original estimate back to €19,000 per night.

If I can later i might do a full estimate - its only my estimate and can be incorrect depending on different places but its a rough giude - not to be taken as gospel of course - just trying to make it a little clearer and do sum light sums for people.

I have no experience per say clubs in urban areas, but in rural areas, those working the bar, with experience, get €10.00 per hour in the hand. And then one must add in the employers prsi and employee liability insurance is based on wages. Higher wages equates to higher premiums.

PeakOutput · 09-12-2010 08:21PM

ardinn wrote: »

O.K. say barmen are on €12 head barmen and supervisors on €13 doormen on €18 and head and supervisory doormen on €20 Manager on €20 cleaners on €9

For 900 - you need
10 cleaners / back bar/ cloak room - €90
18 doormen - 1 per 50 patrons - recommended €324
12-14 barmen € 143
2-3- supervisors €30
2 managers €40 - €5016 minimum = €782,500 Minimum - so say €800k

Taking my original estimate back to €19,000 per night.

i understand thats thats what you think they are getting paid however

all the barmen are on minimum wage or one euro more

the barmen are the cleaners

the lounge girls are on minimum wage and are also the cleaners

there is one kind of unofficial supervisor who might be on 10/11 an hour as he does manager duties when they arent around

the bouncers might be on 10-12euro an hour head bouncer might be on a bit more

the assistant manager(this is where my guessing starts) is on no more then 15an hour(40 hour week(probably more hours then that) = 29K a year, sounds about right for assistant) manager might be on 20(40 hour week(probably more hours then that)=39K a year( id be suprised if it wasnt closer 34/35)

very very roughly and again excluding the manger and assistant thats an average of just over ten euro an hour

edit; as you have a few bars yourself i accept all your figures as far as rates insurance etc, but i can tell you with certainty that you are over estimating the cost of labour, i can obviously only speak for that one particular place i last worked.

edit2; it seems that you pay your staff very very fair wages and i hope you get better quality work from them as a result you definitely deserve it, in my limited bar experience the only people get much more then minimum wage were friends / family of the owners and supervisors up

ardinn · 09-12-2010 08:22PM

bog master wrote: »

I have no experience per say clubs in urban areas, but in rural areas, those working the bar, with experience, get €10.00 per hour in the hand. And then one must add in the employers prsi and employee liability insurance is based on wages. Higher wages equates to higher premiums.

this is not included in the giudes but it probably equates somewhere around the same - and we are talking about a dublin bar/club - where rates are higher - I know the cost is lower in rural areas - so is the price of a pint tho.

bog master · 09-12-2010 08:25PM

ardinn wrote: »

Good post - we put a small kitchen into one of our pubs 3 years ago - 1.5 chef kitchen - medium output - 200 per day MAX - Cost of kitchen was €144,000.00

Thanks, to many have such distorted views of the pub trade. I only post to enlighten those who think running/owning a pub is a goldmine.

ardinn · 09-12-2010 08:28PM

PeakOutput wrote: »

i understand thats thats what you think they are getting paid however

all the barmen are on minimum wage or one euro more

the barmen are the cleaners

the lounge girls are on minimum wage and are also the cleaners

there is one kind of unofficial supervisor who might be on 10/11 an hour as he does manager duties when they arent around

the bouncers might be on 10-12euro an hour head bouncer might be on a bit more

the assistant manager(this is where my guessing starts) is on no more then 15an hour(40 hour week(probably more hours then that) = 29K a year, sounds about right for assistant) manager might be on 20(40 hour week(probably more hours then that)=39K a year( id be suprised if it wasnt closer 34/35)

very very roughly and again excluding the manger and assistant thats an average of just over ten euro an hour

There is no doorman in the country that would work for €12 an hour.

The minimum I have paid ever even in the most rural areas you could imagine is €15 - Not a chance. Especially in dublin.

I did factor in cloakroom and lounge girls as cleaners - By the time the barmen finish glasses/stock - the cleaners should be gone. if the ass. Manager is on that little tell him I have plenty of work for him.

When I say assistant manager I am talking about an experienced ass, Manager (ha - ass manager) who is employed as that with proper responsibilities and functions - not a fella that was thrown the title with an extra euro thrown in just to make sure the staff dont smoke too many fags!

PeakOutput · 09-12-2010 08:32PM

ardinn wrote: »

There is no doorman in the country that would work for €12 an hour.

The minimum I have paid ever even in the most rural areas you could imagine is €15 - Not a chance. Especially in dublin.

I did factor in cloakroom and lounge girls as cleaners - By the time the barmen finish glasses/stock - the cleaners should be gone. if the ass. Manager is on that little tell him I have plenty of work for him.

When I say assistant manager I am talking about an experienced ass, Manager (ha - ass manager) who is employed as that with proper responsibilities and functions - not a fella that was thrown the title with an extra euro thrown in just to make sure the staff dont smoke too many fags!

i havnt worked there for a while now thank god and maybe we were just getting absolutely taken advantage off but two of my mates were on the door of a similar sized club just up the road and were on around 12 an hour, and as i said all the barmen i was working with were on minimum wage

ardinn · 09-12-2010 08:36PM

PeakOutput wrote: »

i havnt worked there for a while now thank god and maybe we were just getting absolutely taken advantage off but two of my mates were on the door of a similar sized club just up the road and were on around 12 an hour, and as i said all the barmen i was working with were on minimum wage

There are barmen unions in dublin - MANDATE make up the most - their terms of employment agree no less that €12.30 per hour (im 97% on that)

PeakOutput · 09-12-2010 08:51PM

ardinn wrote: »

There are barmen unions in dublin - MANDATE make up the most - their terms of employment agree no less that €12.30 per hour (im 97% on that)

well this was limerick not dublin

i imagine the employee retention rate in limerick is far lower then in dublin due to most of the staff being students maybe thats how they get away with it

ardinn · 09-12-2010 08:53PM

PeakOutput wrote: »

well this was limerick not dublin

i imagine the employee retention rate in limerick is far lower then in dublin due to most of the staff being students maybe thats how they get away with it

Sorry - I thought we were talking Dublin. Thats where my figures were based.

benjamin d · 09-12-2010 09:22PM

ardinn wrote: »

There are barmen unions in dublin - MANDATE make up the most - their terms of employment agree no less that €12.30 per hour (im 97% on that)

Thats crazy, if I asked for €12.30 an hour anywhere I've worked I'd be laughed out of the place!:eek: What about students etc. who work part-time in Dublin, surely they're not on that amount? And how does the union view them?

ardinn · 09-12-2010 10:31PM

Dont know - I would presume this is for full time staff.

Fizman · 09-12-2010 10:37PM

What would make me go back to the pub? I haven't really left the pub.

I can't say my going out habit has dropped at all over the past 3 years (I lack discipline).

johnn · 09-12-2010 10:39PM

A hand shandy from a spritely young one with every pint :cool:

Capt'n Midnight · 10-12-2010 03:26AM

The last excise duty increase on beer was in 1994
Actually that's not totally true.
Excise on low alcohol beers was dropped.

Excise rates
Up to 1.2% €0

Beer exceeding 1.2% vol but not exceeding 2.8% vol - €7.85 per hectolitre per cent of alcohol in the beer,

All Other Beer exceeding 2.8% vol - €15.71 per hectolitre per cent of alcohol in the beer

example
2.5% Lager = 2.5 * 7.85c per litre = 19.635c per litre ( 11.15c per litre)

5% Lager = 5% * 15.71 = 78.55c per litre ( 44.6c per pint )

Does anyone know of any pub that sells low alcohol lager at a resonable price ??

Does anyone feel any sympathy for the publicans complaining about the excise duty on beer ???

Sergeant · 10-12-2010 05:24AM

A choice of different beers would be good.

I remember visiting the US for the first time expecting to be drinking beer with the word light in the name. Instead there was a massive range of locally produced lagers, ales and stouts from local breweries. Beer created by people and companies who care about their product. Hell, Sam Adams lager which is probably (?) the biggest selling beer in America by an independent brewery is much better than every one of the beers served in the average Irish local. For a country synonymous beer, we drink some wretched swill.

Turn off the Sky Sports after 10. I don't want to watch an infinite loop of Sky Sports News. Liverpool lost, it's one of the reasons I'm drinking heavily, I don't need to be reminded until closing.

JONJO THE MISER · 10-12-2010 05:34AM

kfallon wrote: »

Who says I ever left the pub in the first place???

Kfallon i might hate u riding bit you ddoes speak the truth:D

beaver111 · 10-12-2010 03:11PM

ardinn wrote: »

beaver111 wrote: »

Tesco sells alcohol at below cost - if publicans do buy it they still need a vat reciept - and there is not one supermarket that will sell in bulk to one person - if that tesco is selling van loads of stock they are breaching there own policies.

what planet are you living on there a recession they take the hand of you for a profit publican have been doing this for years

Price of the Pint - What would make you go back to the pub ?

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