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Mary Robinson tells it like it is

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Comments

  • #32
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    seamus wrote: »
    "Greed was the main problem"

    Yes it was. She's right. What am I missing here?

    Who was proportionally responsible?

    I know during the celtic tiger my spending didn't increase, I know my neighbours didn't, I know my families spending didn't increase, I know nearly all of friends and family didn't go buying over priced homes! I know the vast majority of those that know me, didn't go mad basically and take out massive loans!

    ...But then I must be the exception if Mrs Robinson thinks she is right!

    (Frankly I think she is talking out of her arse and is trying to support the government party line (No surprise there! :rolleyes: ) - while living it up in luxury and been chauffeur driven around the country in her expensive limo!)


  • #33
    sipstrassi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 131 ✭✭sipstrassi


    In fairness, There is very little detail in that article to condemn or praise her.


    But I don't get this attitude that it is all the fault of the government. We all bought into it. How many of us have children who have had a foreign holiday every year of their lives? (I was 32 the first time I went abroad!) How many have houses that are bigger than the ones they grew up in (usually with more siblings than their own children have)? How many households have two cars? etc. etc.

    That is not to say the government were not at fault! They have looked after special interest groups. I believe we will never know the half of what has gone on.
    Even the most honest of politicians are not voted in to look after the national interest - they are voted in to bring home the loot to their constituency and get voted back in for doing so. Not their fault - fault of the political system.

    As for the bank guarantee - I'm going to Paddy Power's for a bit of a gamble this afternoon - hoping the government will bail me out if I don't win...:rolleyes:


  • #34
    Japer
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 792 ✭✭✭Japer


    Bjorn Bored. wrote: »
    Very short sighted remarks there from a former President. Just as well we dont look to them for guidance, infact now that I think about it, why the hell do we need the ridiculous expense of a pointless figure head such as a President anyway? Get rid I say.

    I agree 100%. As someone else said, is this the same Mary Robinson who's received in the region of €180k+ in Presidential and Senatorial pensions from the Irish taxpayer every year since 1997 ? Her successor Mary McAleese who wastes our money flying on official visits to the Vatican every year is just as bad, if not worse. Are we so bad that all she can do is waste our money praying for us, fff ?


  • #35
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    People need to get off their high horses ffs. What if she said Irish people love a drink. Would people be calling her a dumb bitch because there are a lot of Irish peope who don't drink?


  • #36
    Kev_ps3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,604 ✭✭✭Kev_ps3


    Never liked the woman, even less so now.


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  • #37
    Minstrel27
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,818 ✭✭✭Minstrel27


    sipstrassi wrote: »
    We all bought into it.

    We did not all buy into it :mad:


  • #38
    PeterIanStaker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭PeterIanStaker


    She was a Labour presidential candidate - can she do something half - useful like attack FF and the inbreds who vote for them, instead of jumping on this media fuelled collective guilt bandwagon?


  • #39
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Minstrel27 wrote: »
    We did not all buy into it :mad:

    Presume you've never gone into any of the number of shopping centres or hotels built in the last 10 years?


  • #40
    Minstrel27
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,818 ✭✭✭Minstrel27


    prinz wrote: »
    Presume you've never gone into any of the number of shopping centres or hotels built in the last 10 years?

    Is this the best that you can do. Really?


  • #41
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    sipstrassi wrote: »
    ...That is not to say the government were not at fault! They have looked after special interest groups...
    There is a lot a disagree with, in what you said but the above is the most one I disagree with.

    As a brother of someone who had permanent brain damage and suffers epileptic seizures very regularly I couldn't disagree more!


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  • #42
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Minstrel27 wrote: »
    Is this the best that you can do. Really?

    I'll take that as a yes. No objections on your part then was there? You don't have to have taken out a huge mortgage to have enjoyed the benefits of the boom. I didn't take out a mortgage, couldn't afford it. Didn't spend on anything mad. Have been budgetting and scraping by for a few years now. Did I still reap the benefits of the boom - yes I did. No one can deny the average standard of living rose dramatically in the first few years of this decade.


  • #43
    Minstrel27
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,818 ✭✭✭Minstrel27


    That is the worst arguement that I have ever seen on this whole website. I take my hat off to you.


  • #44
    gbee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,384 ✭✭✭gbee


    fedor.2. wrote: »
    http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Mary-Robinson-to-Irish-people---blame-yourselves-111374459.html

    Are we really that greedy?

    Climate change organisation? My word, I was once impressed by this very intelligent woman, I admired her really.

    Climate change organisation!!!! For me she now has no credibility and she is probably only returning to take advantage of some tax break or other ....


  • #45
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    fedor.2. wrote: »
    Mary Robinson tells it like it is

    Two 4X4s in the dirveway + a BMW saloon for getting to the beauty salon, (all on credit), the House/Mansion is/was worth €One Million (obviously with a 100% mortgage), two/three annual holidays to the Bahamas or some such place + a trip at Christmas to Lapland for the kids to see Santa! (Maybe a quick New York shopping trip too)! A helicopter trip or stretch Limo for the kids first communion, Harvey Nicks on a Saturday to buy some nice expensive designer clothes, M&S food shopping for the week, 50" Top end Plazma TV, obviously with top satellite package from Sky + top end surround sound system (all on plastic) - nothing above is actually paid for.

    A hell of a lot of irish people have been leading the life of Riley over recent years, maybe that's what our Ex President is refering to?


  • #46
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Minstrel27 wrote: »
    That is the worst arguement that I have ever seen on this whole website. I take my hat off to you.

    Fine let's stick our heads in the sand and deny nobody benefitted whatsoever besides the bankers and the politicians. Rarrr rarr rarr. It's wearing me down, the worst thing is it's all going to be repeated in this country, because we aren't learning a thing.


  • #47
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    LordSutch wrote: »
    Two 4X4s in the dirveway + a BMW saloon for getting to the beauty salon, (all on credit), the House/Mansion is/was worth €One Million (obviously with a 100% mortgage), two/three annual holidays to the Bahamas or some such place, paid for with plastic + a trip at Christmas to Lapland for the kids to see Santa! (Maybe a quick New York shopping trip too)! A helicopter trip for the kids first communion, Harvey Nicks on a Saturday to buy some nice expensive designer clothes, M&S food shopping for the week, 50" Top end Plazma TV, obviously with top satellite package from Sky + top end surround sound system (all on plastic) - nothing above is actually paid for, and maybe that's what our Ex President is refering to?
    Yes, we all have that! :pac:


  • #48
    bnt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,163 ✭✭✭✭bnt


    prinz wrote: »
    People need to get off their high horses ffs. What if she said Irish people love a drink. Would people be calling her a dumb bitch because there are a lot of Irish people who don't drink?
    Drink is a good analogy, actually. Even if you drink, and someone gives you a bottle of Paddy for Christmas, does that mean you're going to polish off the whole bottle on Christmas Day?

    Some have made the point about regulations not being strict enough: true, but that doesn't absolve individuals of responsibility. Regulations are a safety net, or a sanity check, that tell you where the limits are. They tell you what you must not do, but they don't tell you the right thing to do under all circumstances. If the speed limit is 70, that doesn't mean you travel at 70 in rain or shine or fog. The law says you can drink at 18, so is your 18th birthday the day you die of alcohol poisoning? The bank will let you borrow 8x your income on a mortgage: can you promise to make those payments for the next 30 years? :rolleyes:

    You are the type of what the age is searching for, and what it is afraid it has found. I am so glad that you have never done anything, never carved a statue, or painted a picture, or produced anything outside of yourself! Life has been your art. You have set yourself to music. Your days are your sonnets.

    ―Oscar Wilde predicting Social Media, in The Picture of Dorian Gray



  • #49
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    prinz wrote: »
    Fine let's stick our heads in the sand and deny nobody benefitted whatsoever besides the bankers and the politicians. Rarrr rarr rarr.
    Theres a major difference between benefited - and took out loans to do so!
    A lot of us paid cash from our savings and weekly wages!
    I know some might find that hard to believe.


  • #50
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    Biggins wrote: »
    Theres a major difference between benefited - and took out loans to do so!
    A lot of us paid cash from our savings and weekly wages!
    I know some might find that hard to believe.

    People taking out loans is hardly the issue either. Economies & businesses run on & survive because of credit... without it, private industry would collapse & most governments would not have money to run their countries.

    The problem here is that there was excessive gambling in the markets & little or no regulation.

    The fact that Mary & Joe took out a €300k mortgage & borrowed a few quid to buy a car is part of it, but in reality, only a very small part.


  • #51
    sipstrassi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 131 ✭✭sipstrassi


    Biggins wrote: »
    There is a lot a disagree with, in what you said but the above is the most one I disagree with.

    As a brother of someone who had permanent brain damage and suffers epileptic seizures very regularly I couldn't disagree more!

    Sorry Biggins! they are not the special interest groups I was referring to!
    I meant groups they had a special interest in e.g. bankers who sat on boards with them etc. etc.
    I should have chosen my words more carefully and hate to think I caused offence. Vested interests would have been better than special interest.


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  • #52
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Biggins wrote: »
    Theres a major difference between benefited - and took out loans to do so! A lot of us paid cash from our savings and weekly wages! I know some might find that hard to believe.

    It's not only about who took out loans. You hit the nail on the head directly, people paid cash from savings and wages. Spend, spend, spend.
    How many were saving that cash? When you were spending that cash, ever think about the rainy day? What were you spending on - a lifestyle that possible could not be kept up if your wages stopped perhaps? The spending and the cost of living was going up and up, and it could never be sustained. Especially because of the crap standards of products and services in return. There should have been nationwide revolt a long time ago.


  • #53
    drkpower
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,475 ✭✭✭drkpower


    Minstrel27 wrote: »
    We did not all buy into it :mad:

    Almost everyone did.

    Ever buy a pint that cost €6?
    Ever ask Daddy for a present that cost too much?
    Ever buy anything on credit?
    Ever buy clothes, or other luxuries, that you really did not need?
    Ever question your politicians when they continued to spend money they did not have? Or ever ask your parents why they are voting for people who advocate this?

    It doesnt mean that we take equal blame; clearly some people did more than others to fcuk the country up. But the refrain of 'I didnt cause the bust, I shouldnt have to pay for it' can only really be uttered by those under about 8 years of age. Everyone else participated in it, or even egged it on, even if they only did so by inaction rather than by action.

    I suspect that is the thrust of Mary R.'s argument and she is right. But just because we are all to blame, to an extent, does not mean that we are all equally to blame.


  • #54
    Wagon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,119 ✭✭✭Wagon


    Surprised she'd come out with something like that. Fúck sake Mary, have some metaphorical balls.

    What the hell is wrong with you people? People here used to be pretty sound but lately everyone has turned into a complete cock. It's either "Ah we have only ourselves to blame" or "bloody students wasting our taxes" or some other horseshít from some middle aged knob who thinks that everyone younger than them dragged the country to it's knees.

    It was a collaborative effort from the banks, government and those who thought that a credit card was the same as hard cash. Regardless of age, it really comes down to that.


  • #55
    butter13222
    Closed Accounts Posts: 112 ✭✭butter13222


    I understand a lot of people may not of been guilty of greed during the celtic tiger put in fairness she does have a point people where liven away beyond there means. I am man enough to admit it so why cant people shoulder some bit of the blame.


  • #56
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    drkpower wrote: »
    Almost everyone did.

    Ever buy a pint that cost €6?
    Ever ask Daddy for a present that cost too much?
    Ever buy anything on credit?
    Ever buy clothes, or other luxuries, that you really did not need?
    Ever question your politicians when they continued to spend money they did not have? Or ever ask your parents why they are voting for people who advocate this?
    Jeasus!
    Are we not allowed to do those things with our weekly wages - that we all worked for? :confused:

    Fcuk! I must slave away then 5 days a week and live the life of a hermit!


  • #57
    Sizzler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,430 ✭✭✭Sizzler


    No mention of Pat Neary :confused:

    sleeping%20at%20work.jpg


  • #58
    danbohan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭danbohan


    butter13222 wrote: »
    I understand a lot of people may not of been guilty of greed during the celtic tiger put in fairness she does have a point people where liven away beyond there means. I am man enough to admit it so why cant people shoulder some bit of the blame.

    the truth hurts , its easier to blame everbody else . good on her , nice to see a bit of honest speaking for once


  • #59
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Biggins wrote: »
    Yes, we all have that! :pac:

    No of course not, but too many many did.


  • #60
    Duggy747
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,295 ✭✭✭✭Duggy747


    Woah, woah, woah........what's with the sweeping generalisations?

    When I was employed, I worked and saved my ass off. Anything I ever wanted or bought I worked, saved and then bought it. I went out and got pissed on the weekends because I thought I deserved it after working and to socialise, NOT because I was riding the Celtic Tiger.

    I am not a greedy or materialistic person and never lived beyond my means. My parents were good enough to teach me the value of money. I certainly didn't buy stupidly expensive clothes or pay a crazy price for a pint! But, like it or lump it, I know I and everybody else has to help foot the bill.


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  • #61
    jimthemental
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭jimthemental


    minidazzler wrote: »
    Not my fault at all TBH. I am 21, I have had no effect on the economy to date.

    I'm sorry about what I have done to Ireland, at 23 all I do is contribute my ever rising tax. I broke the dam!


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