Mary Robinson tells it like it is

fedor.2.

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Mary-Robinson-to-Irish-people---blame-yourselves-111374459.html

Are we really that greedy?

starbelgrade

Stupid bitch.

Duggy747

I broke the dam economy.

seamus

"Greed was the main problem"

Yes it was. She's right. What am I missing here?

Sanjuro

Usually, I like Robinson. But in this case, she can fuck right off.

starbelgrade

seamus wrote: »

"Greed was the main problem"

Yes it was. She's right. What am I missing here?

Quite a lot:

Bad management of the country's finances.

Poor banking regulation.

Bad management of the housing market, leading to inflated land & property prices.

A near global recession.

Ridiculous property led tax breaks.

The Irish government bailing out foreign bond holders debt.

etc etc.


But, sure it's a lot easier to say that people got greedy & ignore the bigger picture.

minidazzler

Not my fault at all TBH. I am 21, I have had no effect on the economy to date.

prinz

starbelgrade wrote: »

Quite a lot:
Bad management of the country's finances..etc...

By people voted in by...?

Listen she's not absolving any of the issues you made. A lot of which can also be put down to greed. What's wrong with what she said? Forget the financial jargon and get down to it.... it was greed pure and simple, and from top to bottom.

Wazdakka

[Trollface] Problem? [/Trollface]

starbelgrade

minidazzler wrote: »

Not my fault at all TBH. I am 21, I have had no effect on the economy to date.

Apart from costing it a few quid in health, education & transport costs.

Don't worry though - you'll soon have it all paid back in taxes!

JonB

I always new that second portion of chicken balls would come back to bite me in my pocket.

Stabshauptmann

minidazzler wrote: »

Not my fault at all TBH. I am 21, I have had no effect on the economy to date.

Actually, I could presume from your age that nearly every expense you have is living beyone your means.

Got a car? Been on a J1 or gap year? Go to college?

Sharkey 10

I dont think she is far off , there was something very toxic about some people during the celtic tiger.

Bjorn Bored.

Very short sighted remarks there from a former President. Just as well we dont look to them for guidance, infact now that I think about it, why the hell do we need the ridiculous expense of a pointless figure head such as a President anyway? Get rid I say.

maglite

If only i was in a position of power to have effected some change in the economic policy of Ireland... To have hilighted what was going on in the banking world.


Might run for some ministerial office, or maybe president ?

starbelgrade

prinz wrote: »

By people voted in by...?

Listen she's not absolving any of the issues you made. A lot of which can also be put down to greed. What's wrong with what she said? Forget the financial jargon and get down to it.... it was greed pure and simple, and from top to bottom.

That's rather like saying that poverty is caused by people not having enough money.

It's true, of course, but it's over simplistic & really doesn't say anything of any use.

fontanalis

starbelgrade wrote: »

Quite a lot:

Bad management of the country's finances.

Poor banking regulation.

Bad management of the housing market, leading to inflated land & property prices.

A near global recession.

Ridiculous property led tax breaks.

The Irish government bailing out foreign bond holders debt.

etc etc.


But, sure it's a lot easier to say that people got greedy & ignore the bigger picture.

They didn't walk in there by themselves.

minidazzler

Stabshauptmann wrote: »

Actually, I could presume from your age that nearly every expense you have is living beyone your means.

Got a car? Been on a J1 or gap year? Go to college?

No car, no holidays in years and when I was it was paid from working events, no college.

Duggy747

Well, it was nice for our former pressie to step up say we were greedy.

It all becomes so clear now...

She's right but it's nothing different from what others are saying.

prinz

starbelgrade wrote: »

It's true, of course, but it's over simplistic & really doesn't say anything of any use.

That's right, when I am being fed absolutely nothing of use I like it to be complicated, long winded, full of business terms, catch-phrases of the week, and a lot of ahhhs, and ummms and that sort of thing.

bonerm

So is this the same Mary Robinson who's received in the region of €180k+ in Presidential and Senatorial pensions from the Irish taxpayer every year since 1997 ? Ah ok then.

Butterflylove

minidazzler wrote: »

Not my fault at all TBH. I am 21, I have had no effect on the economy to date.

Me either, probably will never get approved for a mortgage now.....

I worked from 16 throughout my leaving cert to pay for college to get where I am today only to be told Im actually going to be coming out with less then what I was at 16,

fedor.2.

minidazzler wrote: »

Not my fault at all TBH. I am 21, I have had no effect on the economy to date.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2010/0807/1224276359790.html

Well ye students have an effect on loads of economies really, fair play to ye.

Pace2008

Anyone have a link to her original statement? These two comments seem somewhat contradictory?

Mary Robinson has said that the Irish people have only themselves to blame for the country’s economic downfall

While admitting that a lot of blame could be placed on people with political responsibility and in charge of banks

When it comes to any difficulties - be it illness, social problems, or the current economic crisis - people always try to isolate one single factor that's to blame for the situation. But with complex issues likes these it's never as simple as that.

COYW

I generally don't agree with Mary but on this occasion she is bang on. Her viewpoint wont sit well with most but the truth never does. The sorry state of an individual's personal finances are predominantly his/her own fault.

Riddle101

IMO the Celtic Tiger did make people greedy, but not what Mary Robinson is implying. We got too big for our boots. Once the boom started, we just kept on spending, and not even bothering to save for a rainy day. I mean Ireland's had recessions in the past, we should have learned from them, and been more careful. We should have known a recession could come about, and prepared for it. But we failed in doing so and now we pay the price. Of course I lay the blame on past and present governments for being the greedy ones(And not the individual people of Ireland), trying to role with the big dogs as well as living it up in their fancy houses and luxury cars, as well as taking bribes. Then of course there was things like the property market, the banks, selling our resources and as someone already said the bad mananagment of our finances.

Namlub

fedor.2. wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2010/0807/1224276359790.html

Well ye students have an effect on loads of economies really, fair play to ye.

He just said he wasn't in college, but don't let that get in the way of some good old-fashioned student bashing right?

Son Of A Vidic

starbelgrade wrote: »

Stupid bitch.

Totally! The fcuking twat with her generalisations. Did she learn nothing from her Human Rights work? Surely she learned never to generalise or make assumptions about people or nations. Her pockets are well lined I'm sure.

Minstrel27

I never borrowed beyond what I could afford. I didn't buy a house as I knew I wouldn't be able to afford it. Does that make me greedy too Mary? Sweeping statements like hers are not needed. Dumb bitch.

bonerm

Have never had any loan/mortgage in my life either btw Mary, nevermind one I couldn't afford.

DEVEREUX

This from a woman who receiving €160,000 odd presidential and ex senator pension!

When she takes at least 50% cut to that then maybe I'll listen to what Noddy has to say....the swine!:D

Biggins

seamus wrote: »

"Greed was the main problem"

Yes it was. She's right. What am I missing here?

Who was proportionally responsible?

I know during the celtic tiger my spending didn't increase, I know my neighbours didn't, I know my families spending didn't increase, I know nearly all of friends and family didn't go buying over priced homes! I know the vast majority of those that know me, didn't go mad basically and take out massive loans!

...But then I must be the exception if Mrs Robinson thinks she is right!

(Frankly I think she is talking out of her arse and is trying to support the government party line (No surprise there! :rolleyes: ) - while living it up in luxury and been chauffeur driven around the country in her expensive limo!)

sipstrassi

In fairness, There is very little detail in that article to condemn or praise her.


But I don't get this attitude that it is all the fault of the government. We all bought into it. How many of us have children who have had a foreign holiday every year of their lives? (I was 32 the first time I went abroad!) How many have houses that are bigger than the ones they grew up in (usually with more siblings than their own children have)? How many households have two cars? etc. etc.

That is not to say the government were not at fault! They have looked after special interest groups. I believe we will never know the half of what has gone on.
Even the most honest of politicians are not voted in to look after the national interest - they are voted in to bring home the loot to their constituency and get voted back in for doing so. Not their fault - fault of the political system.

As for the bank guarantee - I'm going to Paddy Power's for a bit of a gamble this afternoon - hoping the government will bail me out if I don't win...:rolleyes:

Japer

Bjorn Bored. wrote: »

Very short sighted remarks there from a former President. Just as well we dont look to them for guidance, infact now that I think about it, why the hell do we need the ridiculous expense of a pointless figure head such as a President anyway? Get rid I say.

I agree 100%. As someone else said, is this the same Mary Robinson who's received in the region of €180k+ in Presidential and Senatorial pensions from the Irish taxpayer every year since 1997 ? Her successor Mary McAleese who wastes our money flying on official visits to the Vatican every year is just as bad, if not worse. Are we so bad that all she can do is waste our money praying for us, fff ?

prinz

People need to get off their high horses ffs. What if she said Irish people love a drink. Would people be calling her a dumb bitch because there are a lot of Irish peope who don't drink?

Kev_ps3

Never liked the woman, even less so now.

Minstrel27

sipstrassi wrote: »

We all bought into it.

We did not all buy into it :mad:

PeterIanStaker

She was a Labour presidential candidate - can she do something half - useful like attack FF and the inbreds who vote for them, instead of jumping on this media fuelled collective guilt bandwagon?

prinz

Minstrel27 wrote: »

We did not all buy into it :mad:

Presume you've never gone into any of the number of shopping centres or hotels built in the last 10 years?

Minstrel27

prinz wrote: »

Presume you've never gone into any of the number of shopping centres or hotels built in the last 10 years?

Is this the best that you can do. Really?

Biggins

sipstrassi wrote: »

...That is not to say the government were not at fault! They have looked after special interest groups...

There is a lot a disagree with, in what you said but the above is the most one I disagree with.

As a brother of someone who had permanent brain damage and suffers epileptic seizures very regularly I couldn't disagree more!

prinz

Minstrel27 wrote: »

Is this the best that you can do. Really?

I'll take that as a yes. No objections on your part then was there? You don't have to have taken out a huge mortgage to have enjoyed the benefits of the boom. I didn't take out a mortgage, couldn't afford it. Didn't spend on anything mad. Have been budgetting and scraping by for a few years now. Did I still reap the benefits of the boom - yes I did. No one can deny the average standard of living rose dramatically in the first few years of this decade.

Minstrel27

That is the worst arguement that I have ever seen on this whole website. I take my hat off to you.

gbee

fedor.2. wrote: »

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Mary-Robinson-to-Irish-people---blame-yourselves-111374459.html

Are we really that greedy?

Climate change organisation? My word, I was once impressed by this very intelligent woman, I admired her really.

Climate change organisation!!!! For me she now has no credibility and she is probably only returning to take advantage of some tax break or other ....

LordSutch

fedor.2. wrote: »

Mary Robinson tells it like it is

Two 4X4s in the dirveway + a BMW saloon for getting to the beauty salon, (all on credit), the House/Mansion is/was worth €One Million (obviously with a 100% mortgage), two/three annual holidays to the Bahamas or some such place + a trip at Christmas to Lapland for the kids to see Santa! (Maybe a quick New York shopping trip too)! A helicopter trip or stretch Limo for the kids first communion, Harvey Nicks on a Saturday to buy some nice expensive designer clothes, M&S food shopping for the week, 50" Top end Plazma TV, obviously with top satellite package from Sky + top end surround sound system (all on plastic) - nothing above is actually paid for.

A hell of a lot of irish people have been leading the life of Riley over recent years, maybe that's what our Ex President is refering to?

prinz

Minstrel27 wrote: »

That is the worst arguement that I have ever seen on this whole website. I take my hat off to you.

Fine let's stick our heads in the sand and deny nobody benefitted whatsoever besides the bankers and the politicians. Rarrr rarr rarr. It's wearing me down, the worst thing is it's all going to be repeated in this country, because we aren't learning a thing.

Biggins

LordSutch wrote: »

Two 4X4s in the dirveway + a BMW saloon for getting to the beauty salon, (all on credit), the House/Mansion is/was worth €One Million (obviously with a 100% mortgage), two/three annual holidays to the Bahamas or some such place, paid for with plastic + a trip at Christmas to Lapland for the kids to see Santa! (Maybe a quick New York shopping trip too)! A helicopter trip for the kids first communion, Harvey Nicks on a Saturday to buy some nice expensive designer clothes, M&S food shopping for the week, 50" Top end Plazma TV, obviously with top satellite package from Sky + top end surround sound system (all on plastic) - nothing above is actually paid for, and maybe that's what our Ex President is refering to?

Yes, we all have that! :pac:

bnt

prinz wrote: »

People need to get off their high horses ffs. What if she said Irish people love a drink. Would people be calling her a dumb bitch because there are a lot of Irish people who don't drink?

Drink is a good analogy, actually. Even if you drink, and someone gives you a bottle of Paddy for Christmas, does that mean you're going to polish off the whole bottle on Christmas Day?

Some have made the point about regulations not being strict enough: true, but that doesn't absolve individuals of responsibility. Regulations are a safety net, or a sanity check, that tell you where the limits are. They tell you what you must not do, but they don't tell you the right thing to do under all circumstances. If the speed limit is 70, that doesn't mean you travel at 70 in rain or shine or fog. The law says you can drink at 18, so is your 18th birthday the day you die of alcohol poisoning? The bank will let you borrow 8x your income on a mortgage: can you promise to make those payments for the next 30 years? :rolleyes:

Biggins

prinz wrote: »

Fine let's stick our heads in the sand and deny nobody benefitted whatsoever besides the bankers and the politicians. Rarrr rarr rarr.

Theres a major difference between benefited - and took out loans to do so!
A lot of us paid cash from our savings and weekly wages!
I know some might find that hard to believe.

starbelgrade

Biggins wrote: »

Theres a major difference between benefited - and took out loans to do so!
A lot of us paid cash from our savings and weekly wages!
I know some might find that hard to believe.

People taking out loans is hardly the issue either. Economies & businesses run on & survive because of credit... without it, private industry would collapse & most governments would not have money to run their countries.

The problem here is that there was excessive gambling in the markets & little or no regulation.

The fact that Mary & Joe took out a €300k mortgage & borrowed a few quid to buy a car is part of it, but in reality, only a very small part.

sipstrassi

Biggins wrote: »

There is a lot a disagree with, in what you said but the above is the most one I disagree with.

As a brother of someone who had permanent brain damage and suffers epileptic seizures very regularly I couldn't disagree more!

Sorry Biggins! they are not the special interest groups I was referring to!
I meant groups they had a special interest in e.g. bankers who sat on boards with them etc. etc.
I should have chosen my words more carefully and hate to think I caused offence. Vested interests would have been better than special interest.