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Wikileaks merge (Assange loses extradition appeal)

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Comments

  • #332
    ciagr297
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 428 ✭✭ciagr297


    biko wrote: »
    PostFinance, Assanges bank, were only too happy to freeze his assets, about 30K. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-11929034

    Great excuse, PostFinance (who btw was attacked by hackers because of this).
    how well it took them this long to find that out

    i think they were tipped off by someone.... maybe by someone in a trenchcoat with mickey mouse ears:rolleyes:


  • #333
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Sam Vimes wrote: »
    this is true but I was speaking in the conditional tense, ie "if the charges are fraudulent then...". At no point did I say "the charges are fraudulent, therefore...". Which is why your repeated requests for me to provide proof of his innocence were ridiculous

    Right. So in other words you have no opinion whatsoever on whether or not he should be returned to Sweden?


  • #334
    ciagr297
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 428 ✭✭ciagr297


    jimthemental wrote: »
    I think it's a frame up but I still don't think that he should be let publish all of this material. Some of it is going to initiate a diplomatic shít storm and he'll just walk away roaring freedom of the press. Responsible thought must be given to what wikileaks put out there instead of just churning out every document they get their hands on.

    International security and politics needs to be more transparent/regulated but in my view this isn't how to do it.

    PS: Before anyone starts going off at me I don't have an alternative way of doing this.
    well what gives him the authority then to decide what to publish and not to publish? or does he have to run it by governments first? defeats the purpose of the site altogether then

    its a leak site, you sorta have to publish everything....


  • #335
    Zillah
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,369 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Why do people have to multiquote like that?

    It's because
    You're quoting the one thing, surely you can do it as one block.

    we're better
    It just comes across as extremely pompous otherwise.

    than you.


  • #336
    twinQuins
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,199 ✭✭✭twinQuins


    FlutterinBantam wrote: »
    My good man, you appear to have a rather twisted and immature view on how business is done, be that diplomatic or commercial.

    Diplomacy needs to be carried on in an understanding of confidentiality.

    And the US diplomatic cables are the only documents they've ever released...


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  • #337
    Wompa1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,360 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    The guy who gave the info out should be done for treason and Assagne should be done for unauthorised publishing of confidential information without consent. Presumably like with most companies if you use their network and their e-mail, IM etc. whatever you type is their domain and their IP. If I did up a document about something at work it's not mine, it's the companies. If I send a mail I have to ensure I have the little disclaimer yoke...


  • #338
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Jaafa wrote: »
    They got him. :mad:

    http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europe/2010/12/2010127103159940201.html
    He wasn't exactly hiding from them.
    The British authorties knew exacly where he was at all times.

    The thing is now, once he might be moved to Sweden (on a second attempt of charges that was already thrown out the first time! ...And all because of a condom!), it will be remained to see if the American government scumbags will twist the law even further and try to have him "renditioned" back to the states!

    The charges themselves are a load of crap. A disgusting farce that is being further abused for the convenience of the Americans and if they chose the above route just to get their hands on him, any respect for America will go out the window - and thats not just me, they will make themselves further enemies across Europe and elsewhere.

    As it is, if the American Government was on fire, I wouldn't even spare my piss on them, to put it out!

    Some background details:

    * The case was already thrown out by a judge in the city where the incident was supposed to have taken place.
    However another then political appointed (days later!) prosecutor - from another city entirely - wanted and got the charges dug up again (pressure from America its suspected and there was a LOT of pressure at the time!).

    * The person that brought the charges that he is now charged with, threw a party less than two days later for the man! And at that party showed him off around like he was royalty!

    * Because a condom he was wearing at the time of sex supposedly broke, a charge of rape was instigated because somehow now, the woman involved didn't consent to sex without one!
    There is a major question to be answered (in court anyway!) as to if a condom might break (stupid question - seriously!) and IF Assange would bother to force the breakage!

    * In the meanwhile, if would be easier to get the man shipped to the states from Sweden - and the Americans know this. Thus the pressure being applied to all involved to see that he is gotten back to Sweden as soon as possible - on what ever charge that can be used to do this!

    * The Americans meanwhile back in the states are currently scrambling around like panicked mice, into their law books to try and find something - anything that might be used to try and get the guy on any legal charge. Such is their desperation to see that they get a piece of him!


  • #339
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    prinz wrote: »
    Right. So in other words you have no opinion whatsoever on whether or not he should be returned to Sweden?

    Sigh. I think that the authorities are doing the right thing in returning him to Sweden because allegations have been made against him.

    I think that there is a significant chance that these allegations are false so I understand his reluctance to stand trial for them.

    I was responding to your suggestion that he was somehow hypocritical for not "facing up to his own criminality" by pointing out that he may not have committed any criminality to face up to


  • #340
    HarryPotter41
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭HarryPotter41


    Sam Vimes wrote: »
    Sigh. I think that the authorities are doing the right thing in returning him to Sweden because allegations have been made against him.

    I think that there is a significant chance that these allegations are false so I understand his reluctance to stand trial for them.


    In fairness, he would have a similar reluctance to stand trial for them if they were true.


  • #341
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    HarryPotter41 wrote: »
    In fairness, he would have a similar reluctance to stand trial for them if they were true.

    This is also true


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  • #342
    biko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,060 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Well, a famous Swedish footballer just got away scot-free from a rape charge so that will probably happen here too.
    Even though Sweden is the rape capital of Europe not many get convicted.
    Sweden’s Supreme Court recently overturned two rape convictions where the woman’s testimony was the only evidence admitted.


  • #343
    HarryPotter41
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭HarryPotter41


    biko wrote: »
    Well, a famous Swedish footballer just got away scot-free from a rape charge so that will probably happen here too.
    Even though Sweden is the rape capital of Europe not many get convicted.
    Sweden’s Supreme Court recently overturned two rape convictions where the woman’s testimony was the only evidence admitted.


    Really?? So wheres good to stay in Stockholm then?? :D


  • #344
    sink
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,314 ✭✭✭sink


    I was a supporter of wikileaks. I can see the moral justification for releasing secret documents on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. There is a real need for a service which allows whistle blowers get their info out into the public domain safely and anonymously.

    However I don't see the point in these diplomatic leaks. They're not uncovering anything worthy of further examination let alone prosecution. I can't see how they're in the public interest beyond mildly intriguing entertainment. And the leak of US vital security interests around the globe is imo reckless. It stinks of someone with an anti-establishment agenda and not of any great public concern.

    The diplomatic leaks only serve to lend an excuse to government to persecute wikileaks and to severely curtail it's activities. In the end it will be a disservice to all those whistle blowers who have information vital to the public interest who can no longer rely on wikileaks due to their own reckless actions.


  • #345
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Sam Vimes wrote: »
    I was responding to your suggestion that he was somehow hypocritical for not "facing up to his own criminality" by pointing out that he may not have committed any criminality to face up to

    Fine, his own possible criminality. Either way it's still hypocritical. Anywho my stance has nothing to do with Assange personally or the website. There's an Irishman pulling the same stroke who is here and should be handed over to Hungary to answer far more serious charges.


  • #346
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    prinz wrote: »
    Fine, his own possible criminality. Either way it's still hypocritical.

    It's absolutely hypocritical to expose criminality while trying to hide your own, we're agreed there. But how is it hypocritical to expose criminality while trying to avoid being framed :confused:


  • #347
    Jagera
    Closed Accounts Posts: 910 ✭✭✭Jagera


    seamus wrote: »
    The truth unfortunately will not always out, justice is not always served.

    I was thinking the same. The poor chap is buggered, he's ruffled feathers at the very top. Innocent or guilty, he will have a few hard months/years ahead.


  • #348
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    prinz wrote: »
    Fine, his own possible criminality. Either way it's still hypocritical. Anywho my stance has nothing to do with Assange personally or the website. .

    No, no.....its just a coincidence....
    Prinz wrote:

    I hate Wikileaks. There I said it. No time for them, their spokespeople or their deeds.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=69296783&postcount=3


  • #349
    twinQuins
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,199 ✭✭✭twinQuins


    biko wrote: »
    Sweden’s Supreme Court recently overturned two rape convictions where the woman’s testimony was the only evidence admitted.

    In fairness, it would be a pretty damning indictment of the judicial system if a sentence could be made solely on the testimony of the prosecution.


  • #350
    HarryPotter41
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭HarryPotter41


    Sam Vimes wrote: »
    It's absolutely hypocritical to expose criminality while trying to hide your own, we're agreed there. But how is it hypocritical to expose criminality while trying to avoid being framed :confused:


    Framed? Really? Think about it, the most powerful government in the world wants to frame him the best they are going to come up with is some half assed rape charge?


  • #351
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    HarryPotter41 wrote: »
    Framed? Really? Think about it, the most powerful government in the world wants to frame him the best they are going to come up with is some half assed rape charge?

    Again, I'm not saying he was framed. I'm saying it's a possibility


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  • #352
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Sam Vimes wrote: »
    It's absolutely hypocritical to expose criminality while trying to hide your own, we're agreed there. But how is it hypocritical to expose criminality while trying to avoid being framed :confused:

    Anyone can claim to be being "framed", concern about being "framed" is not a get-out-of-jail-free card from any charges that may or may not be levelled against you. If you are that concerned with justice you'd have enough faith in it to allow it's course continue unhindered.
    Nodin wrote: »
    No, no.....its just a coincidence....

    When you start repeating posts it's time to log off.


  • #353
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    HarryPotter41 wrote: »
    Framed? Really? Think about it, the most powerful government in the world wants to frame him the best they are going to come up with is some half assed rape charge?

    Its a major blemish on his character if proven, a minor even if not - particularily useful for discrediting him in the US.


  • #354
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    prinz wrote: »
    ...........
    When you start repeating posts it's time to log off.

    You were being inconsistent. I was just being nice and reminding you.


  • #355
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    prinz wrote: »
    Anyone can claim to be being "framed", concern about being "framed" is not a get-out-of-jail-free card from any charges that may or may not be levelled against you. If you are that concerned with justice you'd have enough faith in it to allow it's course continue unhindered.

    And you wouldn't consider it a possibility that when two women you had consensual sex with are now claiming that it was not consensual, leaving you in a position where it's your word against theirs, that justice has already been "hindered"?


  • #356
    HarryPotter41
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭HarryPotter41


    Nodin wrote: »
    Its a major blemish on his character if proven, a minor even if not - particularily useful for discrediting him in the US.


    Well rape should be a major blemish on your character if proven!!! And discrediting him will not make him go away. The conspiracy theorists really should read the allegations and see how poor they are. They wanted to stitch him up then they could do much better than that.


  • #357
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Nodin wrote: »
    You were being inconsistent. I was just being nice and reminding you.

    Actually I wasn't. On this thread I have been referring to Assange. The other thread was dealing with wikileaks the website. Unlike many people here I can take each separately, and not assume Assange is being framed because of wikileaks. It's for this reason I mentioned the Irishman wanted in Hungary. He too should be handed over.
    Sam Vimes wrote: »
    And you wouldn't consider it a possibility that when two women you had consensual sex with are now claiming that it was not consensual, leaving you in a position where it's your word against theirs, that justice has already been "hindered"?

    That's up to a court of law to decide surely. It may well be the case and he could be found innocent. What then? Will the people on this thread continue to believe he was framed? It would raise reluctance but then again maybe we should stop drifting in and out of hypotheticals, it's getting us nowhere. Like I said, I'd rather fight my corner in a court of law than running away and shouting from the sidelines safely out of reach.


  • #358
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    prinz wrote: »
    It would raise reluctance

    Which is the one and only point I was making. kthxbye


  • #359
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Sam Vimes wrote: »
    Which is the one and only point I was making. kthxbye

    Congratulations on making that truly crucial point.


  • #360
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    The charges are a load of crap - see HERE


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  • #361
    HarryPotter41
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭HarryPotter41


    Biggins wrote: »
    The charges are a load of crap - see HERE


    Can you provide a link to something that isn't your opinion of the charges?


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