Powermeters

MrCreosote · 26-11-2010 09:37PM #1

I've caught myself thinking about powermeters a lot recently.

Can anyone explain in simple terms how they work, the different types and pros/cons of these. And what is the benefit over a heart rate monitor?

Thanks!

mloc123 · 26-11-2010 09:47PM

Not being smart or anythng... But if you don't know why you 'need' one you probably shouldn't be lookig to buy one.

This topic has come up alot tho' and is worth searching the forum.

MrCreosote · 26-11-2010 10:10PM

Fair point, although I never said I was thinking of buying one. Just curious really.

I did do a search (I'm not THAT lazy :pac:)- plenty of discussion about specific meters, but no generic threads and no comparisons etc

ednwireland · 26-11-2010 11:12PM

MrCreosote wrote: »

Fair point, although I never said I was thinking of buying one. Just curious really.

I did do a search (I'm not THAT lazy :pac:)- plenty of discussion about specific meters, but no generic threads and no comparisons etc

comparison, do you think anyone has 2

Beasty · 26-11-2010 11:35PM

ednwireland wrote: »

comparison, do you think anyone has 2

levitronix · 26-11-2010 11:38PM

I think sherlock has more than one ?

ryan_sherlock · 27-11-2010 03:16AM

levitronix wrote: »

I think sherlock has more than one ?

Yeah - Powertap on the MTB, SRM on the road bike. Do some searching (there is a HUGE amount of info on this) and come back with more concise questions.

Lumen · 27-11-2010 08:36AM

If you're interested, you may as well just buy this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Training-Racing-Power-Meter-Hunter/dp/1934030554/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1290843105&sr=8-1

It's only £12 and very interesting. If spending that money with no guaranteed return bothers you, powermeters are not for you.

Regardless of whether you end up using a powermeter or not, the training approaches advocated by Hunter Allen are a bit different to those of Joe Friel, so it's nice to have some breadth.

MrCreosote wrote: »

And what is the benefit over a heart rate monitor?

Accurately measuring output rather than inaccurately measuring effort.

billy.fish · 27-11-2010 08:42AM

ednwireland wrote: »

comparison, do you think anyone has 2

Ive 3

2 Powertaps, a polar system.

Technically if you count the Wattbike and Velotron 5.

Not to mention the broken Ergomo.

mloc123 · 27-11-2010 11:23AM

billy.fish wrote: »

Not to mention the broken Ergomo.

I've yet to hear of a working Ergomo

ednwireland · 27-11-2010 12:43PM

billy.fish wrote: »

Ive 3

2 Powertaps, a polar system.

Technically if you count the Wattbike and Velotron 5.

Not to mention the broken Ergomo.

ryan_sherlock wrote: »

Yeah - Powertap on the MTB, SRM on the road bike. Do some searching (there is a HUGE amount of info on this) and come back with more concise questions.

Beasty wrote: »

allright allright i get it, you all have more than one

but which is best ............................... fight (to quote harry hill)

Beasty · 27-11-2010 02:08PM

Just to be clear I only have the 2 Powertaps (always worth having a spare, just in case;))

Can't compare them with the Quarq yet - it's for the TT bike, when I get the new wheels.:p

fondriest · 27-11-2010 04:10PM

mloc123 wrote: »

I've yet to hear of a working Ergomo

I have an ergomo that works. Of course its on the tt bike and only gets used about 5 times a year . 3 powertaps ,2 for the road and 1 on mtb.

billy.fish · 27-11-2010 06:36PM

ednwireland wrote: »

allright allright i get it, you all have more than one

but which is best ............................... fight (to quote harry hill)

What car is best.

Its not that easy.

Main thing is not best so much as consistent. Accuracy is secondary to that believe it or not.

Michelin · 27-11-2010 06:39PM

fondriest wrote: »

I have an ergomo that works. Of course its on the tt bike and only gets used about 5 times a year . 3 powertaps ,2 for the road and 1 on mtb.

Why use one on a mtb?

Hardly any point is there?

billy.fish · 27-11-2010 06:48PM

Michelin wrote: »

Why use one on a mtb?

Hardly any point is there?

Depends if you want to quantify the training you've done or not really...oh wait thats the same as on the road

Michelin · 27-11-2010 07:22PM

billy.fish wrote: »

Depends if you want to quantify the training you've done or not really...oh wait thats the same as on the road

Yes but it will hardly produce anywhere near the consistancy of what you should be doing on the road? If you were serious about training with a power meter you would hardly go mountain biking?

billy.fish · 27-11-2010 07:33PM

Michelin wrote: »

Yes but it will hardly produce anywhere near the consistancy of what you should be doing on the road? If you were serious about training with a power meter you would hardly go mountain biking?

Consistency has nothing to do with the nature of how the power is produced. MTB can be less stochastic than road cycling. Consistency comes down to how the power is measured and data captured.

As for the second comment, i'm not going to even bother to answer that.

levitronix · 27-11-2010 10:06PM

Michelin wrote: »

Yes but it will hardly produce anywhere near the consistancy of what you should be doing on the road? If you were serious about training with a power meter you would hardly go mountain biking?

Cadel evans was mtb national champion !

ryan_sherlock · 27-11-2010 10:31PM

Michelin wrote: »

Yes but it will hardly produce anywhere near the consistancy of what you should be doing on the road? If you were serious about training with a power meter you would hardly go mountain biking?

lol - funniest thing I have read in a while!

What about if you are a mountain biker that trains with power? Hardly think it is surprising that you would train on a mountain bike, with a power meter of all things!

It is great for seeing what a race really 'looks' like so that you can then train those attributes...

As a racing MTBer, if I had to go with one, I would still go with it on the road bike though - just for consistent tempo/threshold/V02max training.

tunney · 27-11-2010 11:37PM

fondriest wrote: »

I have an ergomo that works. Of course its on the tt bike and only gets used about 5 times a year . 3 powertaps ,2 for the road and 1 on mtb.

I think the point is that ergomos cannot by design actually work.

tunney · 27-11-2010 11:39PM

billy.fish wrote: »

Depends if you want to quantify the training you've done or not really...oh wait thats the same as on the road

You need to be fit for MTBing?

tunney · 27-11-2010 11:42PM

I have tried SRMs, PT and if you count it CT. Would love to try Quargs and if I thought I'd a need for a new PM I'd get one.

billy.fish · 28-11-2010 09:46AM

tunney wrote: »

I think the point is that ergomos cannot by design actually work.

No...they can work, they just were not made right.

It is by far the best place to mount a power meter

billy.fish · 28-11-2010 09:47AM

tunney wrote: »

You need to be fit for MTBing?

Yeah, so i'd avoid it if i were you Tunney. Your puny vo2 and AEP would not help.

Leave it to the strong boys ok....

tunney · 28-11-2010 10:30AM

billy.fish wrote: »

No...they can work, they just were not made right.

It is by far the best place to mount a power meter

I'm not talking about the BB being the best location for a PM just the ergomos implementation of a BB PM.

Kebel · 28-11-2010 11:25AM

I have been using Ergomo for a couple of years on 5 bikes (Two Race Bikes, CX Bike, Winter / Tourer Bike and my TT Bike, which BTW I use weekly from Mar thru to Sept) - in total I have ridden over 1000 hours with no problems other than needing to replace a battery on one which I bought second hand on e-Bay. I also train / race with a couple of guys who use ergomo as well (no complaints there either). They are reasonably popular in Germany, Austria and that general area.

Yes there were some problems with some of the earlier versions but the later versions work well and after some financial problems Ergomo are back in business and provided a good back-up service.

Back to the OP's original Q- PMs are a useful training aid, but they are not cheap and the PM itself will not make you a good rider - effective training (and recovery) is the key to that - A PM is very useful for helping with that but you need to use it properly, I would suggest either with a coach or someone who understands power - there is more to understanding training with power that just reading a book, you need to understand what the data is telling you and learn to understand your own body, it's strengths and weaknesses, and how you respond to the different loads and stresses hard training place on it. Also be prepared to suffer, because if you are not prepared to put in the work, then you are wasting you money.

That said I would recommend a PM if you are serious about getting most out of yourself, especially if you have limited time for training. - Enjoy:D

morana · 28-11-2010 09:15PM

Forget about the pm just focus on the software used to interpret the data because there is a hell of a lot. As Ryan says the level of precision used for interval work is far better than HR which as we know is affected by quite a number of factors as well as a day to day variability.

WKO was the best but imho I think Golden Cheetah has surpassed it. I am doing some good stuff on the track with a rider and his position and hope to be able to share with the community when finished!!

tunney · 29-11-2010 10:13AM

morana wrote: »

Forget about the pm just focus on the software used to interpret the data because there is a hell of a lot. As Ryan says the level of precision used for interval work is far better than HR which as we know is affected by quite a number of factors as well as a day to day variability.

WKO was the best but imho I think Golden Cheetah has surpassed it. I am doing some good stuff on the track with a rider and his position and hope to be able to share with the community when finished!!

I've used GC with the Aerolab plugin - which is what i am assuming you are doing on the track. Chung et Al recommend the use of a very very large high for proper CdA testing rather than a track - you conisdered that in your testing?

morana · 29-11-2010 12:32PM

tunney wrote: »

I've used GC with the Aerolab plugin - which is what i am assuming you are doing on the track. Chung et Al recommend the use of a very very large high for proper CdA testing rather than a track - you conisdered that in your testing?

Shush!!!!!

very very large ?

tunney · 29-11-2010 01:34PM

morana wrote: »

Shush!!!!!

very very large ?

the bigger and more accurately the size of the hill the better.

Going to do alot of this this year. No excuse for not having your optimal position now.

Powermeters

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