Freemasons?

Brown Bomber · 21-11-2010 04:33PM

Absolam wrote: »

All that said, the argument is often put forward that this could include Satanists, .

Don't you mean does (and has)?

squod · 21-11-2010 04:34PM

Are there specific days when ceremonies take place, such as you might find in the Christian faiths. Easter and Christmas etc.

Brown Bomber · 21-11-2010 04:48PM

Absolam wrote: »

Again, having secrets, or even being secretive, is not being secret. .

Here is the definition of a secret society.

Definition of SECRET SOCIETY

: any of various oath-bound societies often devoted to brotherhood, moral discipline, and mutual assistance
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/secret%20society

Are you honestly trying to tell me that freemasonry does not fit with that definition?

Absolam wrote: »

I presume your reference to R Boedeker is to back up your claim that Freemasonry is rooted in Kaballah. Perhaps you should read the title and beginning of his article.

If even I a non mason with no particular interest in freemasonry know that freemasonry is rooted in Jewish mysticism, and

Rabbis know

Curiously, many of its rituals and symbolism draw its roots from the Kabbalah. In the Kabbalah, the interest in a knowledge of sounds, written letters, and words was intensified. Each sign was given a magical value that had a religious meaning and a numerical relationship. For example, the Hebrew letter alef became the symbol of mankind and the abstract principle of material objects.
http://rabbimichaelsamuel.com/2010/05/masonic-traditions-and-jewish-mysticism/

And masons know

Has Judaism influenced Freemasonry?
A lot of Masonic ritual is derived from the Jewish Bible or Old Testament. The rituals are based on the story of King Solomon’s Temple.
What elements of the initiation ritual are Jewish?
I’m not supposed to say exactly what the ritual is, but when you go through it, you feel you are at home because you are hearing stories and learning lessons from the Temple of Solomon.
http://www.momentmag.com/Exclusive/currentyear/02/201002-Freemasons.html

How on earth is it conceivable that you as a mason don't know?

Of course, you could be obfuscating...

Absolam wrote: »

Lots of pics of people with their hands inside their jackets. Some in cold weather. We should just move on, you're just embarrasing yourself here. .

Yeah sure...Here is a lot more http://vigilantcitizen.com/?p=2536

Coincidence/bad weather right?

It's signifacance is supposedly given here http://www.sacred-texts.com/mas/dun/dun08.htm

My words are Shem, Japhet, and Adoniram; my sign is this: (thrusting his hand in his bosom); it is in imitation of one given by God to Moses, when He commanded him to thrust his hand into his bosom, and, taking it out, it became as leprous as snow. My word of exhortation is explanatory of this sign, and is found in the writings of Moses, viz., fourth chapter of Exodus:
"And the Lord said unto Moses, Put now thine hand into thy
p. 238
bosom. And he put his hand into his bosom; and when he took it out, behold, his hand was leprous as snow," &c.

Absolam · 21-11-2010 05:47PM

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Don't you mean does (and has)?

Nope, not in any Lodge I've ever been in, nor can I imagine why a Satanist would want to be a Freemason. You're probably referring to Alestair Crowley, who was not a Freemason, but was believed to be, and was not a Satanist, but was believed to be.

squod wrote: »

Are there specific days when ceremonies take place, such as you might find in the Christian faiths. Easter and Christmas etc.

Almost every Lodge meets on a specific day once a month, and has an annual dinner, but these are not ceremonial or festival days or anything like that.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Here is the definition of a secret society.
Are you honestly trying to tell me that freemasonry does not fit with that definition?

How about that is one definition of a secret society that suits your purpose? I would say that a society whose telephone number is in the book, whose headquarters is across the road from Government buildings, with the name right there on the door, which regularly appears in the media, which publishes its laws and constitutions for anyone to read, and which has a website open for anyone to visit, cannot be called secret.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

If even I a non mason with no particular interest in freemasonry know that freemasonry is rooted in Jewish mysticism

to be accurate; you believe, you don't know because you have no direct experience. You're assuming. And your assertion was Kabbalism; broadening it to Jewish Mysticism just shows you're not convinced of your own argument.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

, and Rabbis know

More accurately; a Rabbi who is not a Mason believes there are correlations between what he has heard of Masonic ritual and Kabbalistic principles. The same could be said of Christianity. Just because Freemasonry is not incompatible with Kabbalism, it doesn't mean it originates there. Or to be a bit more analytical about it; the earliest records of Freemasonry date from 17th Century England and Scotland, which were overwhelmingly Christian areas at the time. Very very few people at that place and time were aware of Kabbalism, so what are the odds that those few would form an enduring society amongst Christians?

Brown Bomber wrote: »

,
And masons know How on earth is it conceivable that you as a mason don't know?

Oh come on! That link doesn't even mention Kabbalism, it's an interview with a Jewish Freemason. Judaism and Kabbalism are not the same thing. Kabbalism come from Judaism, as does Christianity. Are you saying that Christianity is Kabbalistic?

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Of course, you could be obfuscating...

Of course... can't have people knowing we're all secretly mystic Jews now can we? Except the ones who are Satanists of course.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Yeah sure...Here is a lot more http://vigilantcitizen.com/?p=2536
Coincidence/bad weather right? It's signifacance is supposedly given here http://www.sacred-texts.com/mas/dun/dun08.htm

So your theory is, there's a conspiracy of the "hidden hand" to change the world, who are so cunning as to have entirely different ideologies, but the members are all afflicted with Dr Evil syndrome that compels them to display their secret recognition method whenever they are portrayed, so that they can't help but be found out, despite their cunning plan of working to achieve entirely different aims so that they can't be connected to each other?

squod · 21-11-2010 06:37PM

Absolam wrote: »

Of course... can't have people knowing we're all secretly mystic Jews now can we? Except the ones who are Satanists of course.

Be careful BB, his powers of sarcasm are even greater during the full moon.

Absolam wrote: »

Almost every Lodge meets on a specific day once a month, and has an annual dinner, but these are not ceremonial or festival days or anything like that.

This one statement you've made without exceptions. Is it possible there are specific days when ceremonies take place in other masonic orders, outside of the strict Scottish rite?

Absolam · 21-11-2010 07:23PM

squod wrote: »

Is it possible there are specific days when ceremonies take place in other masonic orders, outside of the strict Scottish rite?

Scottish rite is an American thing; I can't claim any first hand knowledge of it. You obviously have something in particular on your mind here; why don't you just ask? The Grand Lodge of Ireland produces a Masonic Diary every year, I don't have one to hand but I can always look one up.

squod · 21-11-2010 08:35PM

Absolam wrote: »

Scottish rite is an American thing; I can't claim any first hand knowledge of it. You obviously have something in particular on your mind here; why don't you just ask? The Grand Lodge of Ireland produces a Masonic Diary every year, I don't have one to hand but I can always look one up.

So it's possible to switch/progress from the Grand Lodge of Ireland to a York rite or Scottish rite and so on to many more degrees?

Absolam · 21-11-2010 09:18PM

squod wrote: »

So it's possible to switch/progress from the Grand Lodge of Ireland to a York rite or Scottish rite and so on to many more degrees?

There is no prohibition against a regular Freemason joining Scottish Rite / York rite lodges, but they are not recognised by the Grand Lodge of Ireland. So it wouldn't be a progression; more like a Rugby Union player choosing to play Rugby League as well, or instead, except he'd have to travel to America to do it. Does that relate to your ceremonial dates question?

squod · 21-11-2010 10:25PM

Most of your descriptions so far fit with those given by your accusers. If your both telling the same story who are we to believe?

http://www.bibleprobe.com/freemasonry.htm

There's one of them here for example and many more I'm sure.

Absolam · 21-11-2010 10:34PM

squod wrote: »

Most of your descriptions so far fit with those given by your accusers. If your both telling the same story who are we to believe? There's one of them here for example and many more I'm sure.

My descriptions of what? And what am I being accused of? By whom? What stories do you think are being told, and if they are the same why do you feel compelled to choose between them?

WakeUp · 23-11-2010 01:30AM

Absolam wrote: »

There are government secrets, and yet the government is not secret. Businesses have secrets, but they are not secret businesses. And Freemasonry has secrets, but is not a secret society.

But freemasonry is neither the government nor a business or so we are told it’s just a chaps clubs right? High fives and good deeds is the standard m.o. There is many a secret in your chaps club you will admit to that? Promise I won’t tell anyone.

I've no need to lie about it; I'm openly a Freemason both online and in the 'real world' and have no problem talking to people about it; I'm happy to help inform people about the Order, and if I don't want to tell you something I'll say it straight out.

Well to be honest you are not really “informing” people about the order as in the stuff you are coming out with is pretty standard. The information would not be to hard to find with a simple google search. We want to know about your secrets, secrets you admit exist within the hood, something juicy get our teeth stuck into.
Your user name is interesting Absolam / Absalom third son of David King of Israel, any reason in particular for choosing that name? He was a rebel something really bad happened someone in his family and he went on a bit of a mad one. Why don’t you live up to your user name, rebel a little, and tell us something we don’t know about the “hood”, no body knows you youre just some dude on the internet live a little tell us something we don’t know I dare you.

My point being that the only people who are 'suspicious' of what a Masonic oath may contain are those who think they know what's in it, but have never taken such an oath. If they're not going to take the oath, it's a purposeless suspicioun, if they do take the oath, they'll discover they don't have anything to be suspicious of.

Ok so at least give us a couple of lines of the oath then. You and your ilk seem to take this oath very seriously, for a chaps club that is, if you do tell us about it nobody will know what have you got to lose?

I am a member of the Freemasons. I am not a member of the hood. When you type hood it means nothing to me; it is not in any way descriptive of the organisation I'm a member of.

To me youre a member of the hood, the brotherhood of masons, I think its a fair enough description. Some of you wear actual hoods though right? Performing rituals and stuff like that whats that all about?. Im sure it has nothing to do with leaking roofs or frozen ear lobes. Do you have like a cloak with a hood by any chance.

Absolam · 23-11-2010 10:06AM

WakeUp wrote: »

But freemasonry is neither the government nor a business or so we are told it’s just a chaps clubs right? High fives and good deeds is the standard m.o. There is many a secret in your chaps club you will admit to that? Promise I won’t tell anyone.

Certainly it is the case that Freemasonry is a society with secrets. We've never denied that.

WakeUp wrote: »

Well to be honest you are not really “informing” people about the order as in the stuff you are coming out with is pretty standard. The information would not be to hard to find with a simple google search. We want to know about your secrets, secrets you admit exist within the hood, something juicy get our teeth stuck into.

Well, to be honest it's probably pretty standard because it's true. Such secrets as we have, we keep secret. The clue is in the word.

WakeUp wrote: »

Your user name is interesting Absolam / Absalom third son of David King of Israel, any reason in particular for choosing that name? He was a rebel something really bad happened someone in his family and he went on a bit of a mad one. Why don’t you live up to your user name, rebel a little, and tell us something we don’t know about the “hood”, no body knows you youre just some dude on the internet live a little tell us something we don’t know I dare you.

Of course I have a reason for choosing the name. Hmmmm... break a promise because a stranger on the internet would like me to? Tempting, but, no not that tempting actually

WakeUp wrote: »

Ok so at least give us a couple of lines of the oath then. You and your ilk seem to take this oath very seriously, for a chaps club that is, if you do tell us about it nobody will know what have you got to lose?

If you think we take it seriously, what makes you think we'd suddenly stop taking seriously in order to satisfy your curiousity? Seriously though, what kind of person breaks a promise just because nobody will know they broke it?

WakeUp wrote: »

To me youre a member of the hood, the brotherhood of masons, I think its a fair enough description. Some of you wear actual hoods though right? Performing rituals and stuff like that whats that all about?. Im sure it has nothing to do with leaking roofs or frozen ear lobes. Do you have like a cloak with a hood by any chance.

Nevertheless, we are what we are, regardless of what you would like to see. And no, Freemasons don't wear hoods, except in movies and comics.

getz · 23-11-2010 10:32AM

WakeUp wrote: »

But freemasonry is neither the government nor a business or so we are told it’s just a chaps clubs right? High fives and good deeds is the standard m.o. There is many a secret in your chaps club you will admit to that? Promise I won’t tell anyone.

Well to be honest you are not really “informing” people about the order as in the stuff you are coming out with is pretty standard. The information would not be to hard to find with a simple google search. We want to know about your secrets, secrets you admit exist within the hood, something juicy get our teeth stuck into.
Your user name is interesting Absolam / Absalom third son of David King of Israel, any reason in particular for choosing that name? He was a rebel something really bad happened someone in his family and he went on a bit of a mad one. Why don’t you live up to your user name, rebel a little, and tell us something we don’t know about the “hood”, no body knows you youre just some dude on the internet live a little tell us something we don’t know I dare you.

Ok so at least give us a couple of lines of the oath then. You and your ilk seem to take this oath very seriously, for a chaps club that is, if you do tell us about it nobody will know what have you got to lose?

To me youre a member of the hood, the brotherhood of masons, I think its a fair enough description. Some of you wear actual hoods though right? Performing rituals and stuff like that whats that all about?. Im sure it has nothing to do with leaking roofs or frozen ear lobes. Do you have like a cloak with a hood by any chance.

going on the conspiracy theories thread and asking about freemasons,is not the best way ,as the brotherhood is well represented by both freemason mods and threadies,best doing your own googleing start by freemasons and italy.

Absolam · 23-11-2010 10:38AM

getz wrote: »

going on the conspiracy theories thread and asking about freemasons,is not the best way ,as the brotherhood is well represented by both freemason mods and threadies,best doing your own googleing start by freemasons and italy.

There's a familiar name :-) I'm sure you'll want to point out Getz, that the only regular Freemasons in Italy are under the Regular Grand Lodge of Italy. Just to avoid rehashing the discussions we've already had in this and other threads.

getz · 23-11-2010 10:49AM

Absolam wrote: »

There's a familiar name :-) I'm sure you'll want to point out Getz, that the only regular Freemasons in Italy are under the Regular Grand Lodge of Italy. Just to avoid rehashing the discussions we've already had in this and other threads.

it has now ,but dident when bringing down the goverment ,[absolam] that is also a familar name,

Yitzhak Rabin · 23-11-2010 10:55AM

getz wrote: »

going on the conspiracy theories thread and asking about freemasons,is not the best way ,as the brotherhood is well represented by both freemason mods and threadies,best doing your own googleing start by freemasons and italy.

I think the freemasons are far more open than you have all been led to believe. They post their meeting dates and times on their website.They even post the minutes of their meetings on their website for God sake! How much more open can you expect them to be?

Meeting times:
http://www.irish-freemasons.org/Pages_GL/Provinces/Map_of_Ireland.html

Minutes:
http://www.irish-freemasons.org/Pages_GL/Grand_Lodge_Minutes/june_2010.html

Quarterly News Bulletins:
http://www.irish-freemasons.org/Pages_GL/Grand_Lodge_News.html

Your local GAA club is a more secretive organisation than the freemasons!

You've also been offered guided tours of local lodges by freemasons on this thread.

I suspect, the reason you think you should 'google it for yourself' is by speaking to masons, you know, the people you 'want to find out about' won't give you the answers you want to hear...because, maybe, just maybe, internet rumors about the masons are untrue??

Also, what mods are masons here?

getz · 23-11-2010 11:20AM

yekahs wrote: »

I think the freemasons are far more open than you have all been led to believe. They post their meeting dates and times on their website.They even post the minutes of their meetings on their website for God sake! How much more open can you expect them to be?

Meeting times:
http://www.irish-freemasons.org/Pages_GL/Provinces/Map_of_Ireland.html

Minutes:
http://www.irish-freemasons.org/Pages_GL/Grand_Lodge_Minutes/june_2010.html

Quarterly News Bulletins:
http://www.irish-freemasons.org/Pages_GL/Grand_Lodge_News.html

Your local GAA club is a more secretive organisation than the freemasons!

You've also been offered guided tours of local lodges by freemasons on this thread.

I suspect, the reason you think you should 'google it for yourself' is by speaking to masons, you know, the people you 'want to find out about' won't give you the answers you want to hear...because, maybe, just maybe, internet rumors about the masons are untrue??

Also, what mods are masons here?

i have no problem with anyone who is a freemason,my uncle[who has his own large company] is a mason,but when my brother who was in the police told me he was expected to join[good for his future] it began to dawn on me how corruption starts,it may well be open for the rank and file so people can see who is in,but when do you see the names of local goverment officials,or ministers ? how does one know that a building contract,or a job,wasent handed out by ,shake my hand brother ? untill this is in the open there will always be criticized for their secrecy

Yitzhak Rabin · 23-11-2010 11:35AM

getz wrote: »

i have no problem with anyone who is a freemason,my uncle[who has his own large company] is a mason,but when my brother who was in the police told me he was expected to join[good for his future] it began to dawn on me how corruption starts,it may well be open for the rank and file so people can see who is in,but when do you see the names of local goverment officials,or ministers ? how does one know that a building contract,or a job,wasent handed out by ,shake my hand brother ? untill this is in the open there will always be criticized for their secrecy

How do you know it wasn't handed out because they play golf together? because they are in the same book club? because they both support man united?

Government organisations have to submit all contracts to a tendering process where each company submits a bid and a quotation for each job. The best one is then selected. The tendering process is should be fair, open and transparent, and while I can't speak for every occasion, any occasion that I have seen the process in operation it has been very thorough, perhaps even to the point where its cumbersome to have to go through such a detailed and lengthy process just to supply, say, eggs to the army.

Also, all of the information re: tendering for any organisation is available via the freedom of information act. So if you did suspect there was corruption involved, all you have to do is request to see the documentation involved in processing the deal.

Brown Bomber · 25-11-2010 08:39AM

He is admitted freemason Craig Fitzgerald of controlled opposition group Wearechange. Wearechange intentionally make genuine people looking for 9-11 to be reinvestigated looked stupid by their actions. But that is not important. I wanted to make clear the point that the "hidden hand" pose is masonic.

Freemason Craig Fitzgerald

Here talking about being a 33 degree freemason

Doing the lady gaga

Descendant triangle thing

And the "hidden hand"

Freemasons can't help themselves for some reason...

Absolam · 25-11-2010 11:21AM

Brown Bomber wrote: »

He is admitted freemason Craig Fitzgerald of controlled opposition group Wearechange. Wearechange intentionally make genuine people looking for 9-11 to be reinvestigated looked stupid by their actions. But that is not important. I wanted to make clear the point that the "hidden hand" pose is masonic.
Freemason Craig Fitzgerald
Here talking about being a 33 degree freemason
Doing the lady gaga
Descendant triangle thing
And the "hidden hand"
Freemasons can't help themselves for some reason...

Just to be clear BrownBomber; are you saying that Craig Fitzgerald has claimed to be giving a Masonic "Hidden Hand" sign in the picture, that he's claimed all (or some, or none) of the strange gestures he's giving in his pictures are Masonic, that you know for a fact (and can provide evidence) that Craig Davidson is a Freemason, that some conspiracy theorists (like We Are Change) are worse than other conspiracy theorists, that any of the links you've posted could be considered sufficiently reputable to be taken at face value, or any combination of the above?

When I look at your post all I see is one conspiracy theorist being attacked by other conspiracy theorists; if Craig Fitzgerald turned up outside my Lodge there certainly isn't anything above or in your links that would convince me to let him in.

Brown Bomber · 25-11-2010 11:33AM

Absolam wrote: »

Just to be clear BrownBomber; are you saying that Craig Fitzgerald has claimed to be giving a Masonic "Hidden Hand" sign in the picture, that he's claimed all (or some, or none) of the strange gestures he's giving in his pictures are Masonic, that you know for a fact (and can provide evidence) that Craig Davidson is a Freemason, that some conspiracy theorists (like We Are Change) are worse than other conspiracy theorists, that any of the links you've posted could be considered sufficiently reputable to be taken at face value, or any combination of the above?

When I look at your post all I see is one conspiracy theorist being attacked by other conspiracy theorists; if Craig Fitzgerald turned up outside my Lodge there certainly isn't anything above or in your links that would convince me to let him in.

Pull the other one.

Freemason(s) doing the "hidden hand" thing and yet you've never heard of it. Your denial of everything is making you come across as a spokesperson.

Absolam · 25-11-2010 02:03PM

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Pull the other one. Freemason(s) doing the "hidden hand" thing and yet you've never heard of it. Your denial of everything is making you come across as a spokesperson.

So again, your theory is, there's a conspiracy of the "hidden hand" to change the world, who are so cunning as to have entirely different ideologies, but the members are all afflicted with Dr Evil syndrome that compels them to display their secret recognition method whenever they are portrayed, so that they can't help but be found out, despite their cunning plan of working to achieve entirely different aims so that they can't be connected to each other? How does any of that make any sense whatsoever? Throwing gang signs across the world wide web.... just not a good way of keeping a secret is it! Sometimes people deny things because they're just not true....

Di0genes · 25-11-2010 04:27PM

!Bag foiled again by sign language tourettes!

It's like that claim that Obama Bush et all are making the universal symbol for satan

http://wn.com/Satanic_Hand_Signs

when it actually happens to be the american sign language symbol for I love you

25-11-2010 05:22PM

Helen Kellar was a satanist?
Wow.

Also the sign is also an American Football thing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hook_%27em_Horns

As well as the international symbol for "rock on!"

Johnny Utah · 25-11-2010 06:39PM

Lads,

Anyone notice the twin pillars and the chequered floor when Brian Cowen was giving his speech on Monday night....

Brown Bomber · 25-11-2010 07:07PM

Johnny Utah wrote: »

Lads,

Anyone notice the twin pillars and the chequered floor when Brian Cowen was giving his speech on Monday night....

They'll probably tell you chequered floors and twin pillars have nothing to do with masonry now...

GRAND MASTER

Our Most Worshipful Grand Master

M.W.Bro. George Dunlop
Past Provincial Grand Master of Londonderry & Donegal who was installed Grand Master on Thursday 23rd November 2006

http://www.irish-freemasons.org/Pages_GL/Grand_Master.html

Di0genes · 25-11-2010 10:16PM

Brown Bomber wrote: »

They'll probably tell you chequered floors and twin pillars have nothing to do with masonry now...

GRAND MASTER

Our Most Worshipful Grand Master

M.W.Bro. George Dunlop
Past Provincial Grand Master of Londonderry & Donegal who was installed Grand Master on Thursday 23rd November 2006
http://www.irish-freemasons.org/Pages_GL/Grand_Master.html

I'm more impressed by the quarter million cheque for the smartirans.

Absolam · 25-11-2010 10:19PM

Brown Bomber wrote: »

They'll probably tell you chequered floors and twin pillars have nothing to do with masonry now...
GRAND MASTER

Our Most Worshipful Grand Master
M.W.Bro. George Dunlop
Past Provincial Grand Master of Londonderry & Donegal who was installed Grand Master on Thursday 23rd November 2006

The Grand Master giving money to the Samaritans... I'm dying to hear the conspiracy explanation. He doesn't even have his hand inside his jacket, how will anyone know he's a Mason? And yes, there are pillars and chequered floors in Grand Lodge. And they do have a symbolic significance.

I'm pretty sure Brian Cowen wasn't making any speeches there on Monday though; I never saw him. There must be other people who like chequered floors and pillars in their buildings as well I guess.

Di0genes · 25-11-2010 10:29PM

King Mob wrote: »

Helen Kellar was a satanist?
Wow.

No her guide dog just kept dragging her to black masses.

Brown Bomber · 25-11-2010 10:34PM

Di0genes wrote: »

!Bag foiled again by sign language tourettes!

Di0genes wrote: »

It's like that claim that Obama Bush et all are making the universal symbol for satan

http://wn.com/Satanic_Hand_Signs

when it actually happens to be the american sign language symbol for I love you

Hate to state the obvious but that symbol has 3 horns

:D:D. That one of those Sellafield bulls?......

[/QUOTE]

That satanic gesture doesn't have the thumb sticking out; your I love you symbol does. !Bag foiled again

Freemasons?

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