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Reasons why religion fails to impress

  • 24-11-2010 03:07PM
    #1
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Note: I didn't create this thread, our Holy Lord Moderator, the Greatest, the Most Merciful, the Compassionate cut the post out of the 'Questions for Atheists' thread and made this one with it. Spotlights are on, time to blush!

    Jesus, Mary and Holy Saint Joseph! I wouldn't ever talk about religion if I didn't have it shoved in my face every God-damned day by my family, the news, the posters for the Irish Faith Centre and the Redeemed Christian Church of God on the buses, Muslim fanatics flying planes into buildings and all the preaching at every corner of God's green Earth. I've seen the former ad so many times that I can recite the entire God-forsaken thing verbatim.

    'What think ye of Christ?' Blah blah blah, go to Hell. :pac:

    You'd think that for God's sake that they'd just shut up. But no, they're not using the brains that God gave them. And then when atheists say 'hey, I don't believe it' or 'you know, this whole Bible thing seems a bit immoral to me... what with the executions for homosexuality and genocide and whatnot' or 'stop telling my kids lies', they wonder why we talk about their psychosis all the time? :confused:

    Please God, help us rationalists in our time of need.

    God bless,
    coconutlulz
    xxx


«134567

Comments

  • #2
    liamw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,780 ✭✭✭liamw


    sebastian4jc wrote: »
    If you're so convinced that there is no God... why on earth do you spend so much time talking about Him?

    Again:

    Blasphemy law (church/state seperation and freedom from religion)
    Problem getting non-catholic kids into primary schools
    People flying planes into buildings
    People blocking rights of homsexuals on religious grounds
    Irrational belief / faith as a virtue is unhealthy
    Child indoctrination
    Presidents of countries praying instead of taking action
    Wars and violence between groups based on religion
    Teaching of creationism in schools over real science


  • #3
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,458 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Perhaps we could keep a forum list?

    I'd like to add:

    Massive waste of resources - financial, human, intellectual etc
    Intentional destruction of local cultures and worldviews
    Encouragement of antisocial feelings - self-righteousness, pomposity, arrogance, intolerance


  • #4
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    robindch wrote: »
    Perhaps we could keep a forum list?

    I'd like to add:

    Massive waste of resources - financial, human, intellectual etc
    Intentional destruction of local cultures and worldviews
    Encouragement of antisocial feelings - self-righteousness, pomposity, arrogance, intolerance

    Get to work, Mr. Moderator. :p


  • #5
    Reed Cold Tweet
    Posts: 0 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Reed Cold Tweet


    robindch wrote: »
    Perhaps we could keep a forum list?

    I'd like to add:

    Massive waste of resources - financial, human, intellectual etc
    Intentional destruction of local cultures and worldviews
    Encouragement of antisocial feelings - self-righteousness, pomposity, arrogance, intolerance

    Don't forget "none of these things are problems because I don't think they are and they don't personally affect me lalala"


  • #6
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,458 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    If anybody else has any suggestions, please add them!

    If we can whittle them down to a reasonably short and concise selection, we'll park them in one of the forum stickies.


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  • #7
    zuroph
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,097 ✭✭✭✭zuroph


    This message is also a place holder. First.


  • #8
    Des Carter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 720 ✭✭✭Des Carter


    Good thread but I would disagree with some points. However I am not a fan of institutionalised religions.
    liamw wrote: »
    Blasphemy law (church/state seperation and freedom from religion)
    Agree
    liamw wrote: »
    Problem getting non-catholic kids into primary schools
    This problem doesnt exist in modern day Ireland (not sure about other countries.
    liamw wrote: »
    People flying planes into buildings
    That was the US Government
    liamw wrote: »
    People blocking rights of homsexuals on religious grounds
    Agree - Although homophobia would still exist and there are still questions regarding child rearing
    liamw wrote: »
    Irrational belief / faith as a virtue is unhealthy
    People have every right to be irrational and to believe what they want and they should not be forced to change their beliefs. Also calling every theist irrational is ridiculous/untrue/offensive and downright ignorant
    liamw wrote: »
    Child indoctrination
    Agree - this is also the case in many different spheres of life and is also true for many Atheists.
    liamw wrote: »
    Presidents of countries praying instead of taking action
    They only do this cause they dont have a clue as to what to do, its not like there is a solution infront of them and they choose to ignore it.
    liamw wrote: »
    Wars and violence between groups based on religion
    Wars and violence would still happen
    liamw wrote: »
    Teaching of creationism in schools over real science
    Not the case in modern Ireland (dont know enough about other countries)
    robindch wrote: »
    Massive waste of resources - financial, human, intellectual etc
    This happens in all different spheres of life not just religion.
    robindch wrote: »
    Intentional destruction of local cultures and worldviews
    not anymore - now its capitalism and globalization etc so it would have happened anway
    robindch wrote: »
    Encouragement of antisocial feelings - self-righteousness, pomposity, arrogance, intolerance
    The exact same could be said about Atheists


  • #9
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Des Carter wrote:
    This problem doesnt exist in modern day Ireland (not sure about other countries.

    Yes, it does. State-run schools are mostly Catholic, with members of the Church sitting on many management boards, professing a Catholic ethos, with children expected to be taught religion and make their communion and confirmation at some point; I'm not sure how you can believe there is no bias against non-Catholics. In fact, I daresay the discrimination against openly atheist parents and their children is worse than that against families of other faiths, because free-thinking children are dangerous.
    Des Carter wrote:
    That was the US Government

    I'm ignoring this for obvious reasons.
    Des Carter wrote:
    Agree - Although homophobia would still exist and there are still questions regarding child rearing

    I see no reason to think that homophobia has anything other than a religious source.
    Des Carter wrote:
    People have every right to be irrational and to believe what they want and they should not be forced to change their beliefs. Also calling every theist irrational is ridiculous/untrue/offensive and downright ignorant

    Atheism does not force people to change their beliefs. Don't like what atheists have to say? Then don't listen. We aren't the ones decreeing that apostasy is punishable by death or eternal torture at the hands of the omnipotent dictator. Atheists are quite gentle about professing their beliefs when compared with the fanatics of the Bible and the Qu'ran.

    When people call theists irrational, they aren't saying they are irrational in general; they mean the theist is irrational about their theism. The same way if I call you a moron when we debate a particular topic, I don't mean you're a moron about everything. Theism requires faith (apologetics is a reactionary, post-hoc rationalising), and is by definition irrational. You can hardly lecture us about ignorance; the Earth, 6,000 years old? Religious fundamentalism buries its head in the sand and tolerates no challenges to its ignorant dogma.
    Des Carter wrote:
    Agree - this is also the case in many different spheres of life and is also true for many Atheists.

    While I have no doubt that there are atheists like that, they are few and far between. Religion, on the other hand, commands its followers to indoctrinate children from birth and institutionalises that indoctrination in the laws and education systems of entire nations.
    Des Carter wrote:
    They only do this cause they dont have a clue as to what to do, its not like there is a solution infront of them and they choose to ignore it.

    Or, they choose to pray instead of thinking about a problem and formulating a solution. It's pretty much the same contrast between religion and science. You have no way of knowing that 'they only do this because...'
    Des Carter wrote:
    Wars and violence would still happen

    Absolutely, but some of the most vicious wars are faught between religions or systems inspired by religion.
    Des Carter wrote:
    Not the case in modern Ireland (dont know enough about other countries)

    Children are simultaneously taught old-Earth creationism alongside physics and biology. What a mind-f*ck.
    Des Carter wrote:
    This happens in all different spheres of life not just religion.

    Alright, and how exactly is this a counter to protesting against it when it's religion? You're essentially saying 'sure, everyone else does it, why pick on the religious?'
    Des Carter wrote:
    not anymore - now its capitalism and globalization etc so it would have happened anway

    I am no fan of capitalism but globalisation unites humanity under common solidarity and the goal of finding out who we are and if we're alone in the universe. Contrast this with religion which teaches 'see those darkies over there? Jesus is going to burn them in hell!'
    Des Carter wrote:
    The exact same could be said about Atheists

    Here's the thing though: contrary to what you might believe, there is such a thing as objective reality. Faith, while admired by the religious, actually isn't a good thing; it results in disastrous consequences because it is not based on reality, it is based on fantasy. There is nothing pompous about saying 'I don't believe in God because you have no convincing evidence'. Not all worldviews are created equal.


  • #10
    WeeBushy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,572 ✭✭✭WeeBushy


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Children are simultaneously taught old-Earth creationism alongside physics and biology. What a mind-f*ck.

    I can't speak for all schools, but I went to a very religious (Jesuit) school, and old earth creationism wasn't taught at all, let alone in science classes. Thankfully.

    I know it's a major problem in the US, but does it occur here?


  • #11
    aidan24326
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,925 ✭✭✭aidan24326


    WeeBushy wrote: »
    I know it's a major problem in the US, but does it occur here?

    Anyone who went to a religious school here (which would be alot of us i expect) were told from an early age that god made the world in seven days etc etc, so to that extent it has always been here yes.

    But in the US there seems to be a (relatively) new hardcore creationist movement who are bible literalists*, fervently anti-evolution, anti-science and who are often capable of the most astounding feats of mental gymnastics** in attempting to defend their ludicrously indefensible position.

    * earth is 10,000 yrs old, this means humans coexisted with dinosaurs, noah's ark really happened etc.

    **sometimes amounting to full-on howl-at-the-moon lunacy.


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  • #12
    Gregor Samsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,140 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    WeeBushy wrote: »
    I can't speak for all schools, but I went to a very religious (Jesuit) school, and old earth creationism wasn't taught at all, let alone in science classes. Thankfully.

    I know it's a major problem in the US, but does it occur here?

    I went to a CBS. I distinctly remember the page about the origin of the universe in the religion book (I don't recall origins being discussed in science, biology or geography at all).

    There were 3 columns on the page. One was about the Steady State Theory, one about Divine Creationism and the last about the Big Bang Theory. All 3 were given equal prominence, and each were presented as being as valid (or plausible) as the others. When I brought it up with my teacher for further discussion, she said that there was not enough evidence one way or the other to make one seem more likely than the other. I pushed her on which one she believed, and she said "Well, I think the Bible has it right".

    If anyone else had been awake in the class, that was it: The sum total of their formal education on the origin of the universe reduced to "the Bible has it right".


  • #13
    Des Carter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 720 ✭✭✭Des Carter


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Yes, it does. State-run schools are mostly Catholic, with members of the Church sitting on many management boards, professing a Catholic ethos, with children expected to be taught religion and make their communion and confirmation at some point; I'm not sure how you can believe there is no bias against non-Catholics. In fact, I daresay the discrimination against openly atheist parents and their children is worse than that against families of other faiths, because free-thinking children are dangerous.
    Untrue but has already been discussed.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    I see no reason to think that homophobia has anything other than a religious source.
    I completely disagree
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Atheism does not force people to change their beliefs. Don't like what atheists have to say? Then don't listen. We aren't the ones decreeing that apostasy is punishable by death or eternal torture at the hands of the omnipotent dictator. Atheists are quite gentle about professing their beliefs when compared with the fanatics of the Bible and the Qu'ran.

    When people call theists irrational, they aren't saying they are irrational in general; they mean the theist is irrational about their theism. The same way if I call you a moron when we debate a particular topic, I don't mean you're a moron about everything. Theism requires faith (apologetics is a reactionary, post-hoc rationalising), and is by definition irrational. You can hardly lecture us about ignorance; the Earth, 6,000 years old? Religious fundamentalism buries its head in the sand and tolerates no challenges to its ignorant dogma.
    I was taking the post at face value
    Deleted User wrote: »
    While I have no doubt that there are atheists like that, they are few and far between. Religion, on the other hand, commands its followers to indoctrinate children from birth and institutionalises that indoctrination in the laws and education systems of entire nations.
    Have you any statistics? Actually there was a thread here not too long ago about why you are an atheist and there were a large number of posts saying it was because their parents were.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Or, they choose to pray instead of thinking about a problem and formulating a solution. It's pretty much the same contrast between religion and science. You have no way of knowing that 'they only do this because...'
    There is no evidence for this whatsoever and I think this rarely happens.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Absolutely, but some of the most vicious wars are faught between religions or systems inspired by religion.
    Agreed - although Im sure there were many underlying agendas
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Children are simultaneously taught old-Earth creationism alongside physics and biology. What a mind-f*ck.
    Again untrue
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Alright, and how exactly is this a counter to protesting against it when it's religion? You're essentially saying 'sure, everyone else does it, why pick on the religious?'
    Ya thats exactly what Im saying and if you were to use this as a negative you would also have to take the positives into account like a source of employment, tourism and the running and development of many communities.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    but globalisation unites humanity under common solidarity and the goal of finding out who we are and if we're alone in the universe.
    Im ignoring this for obvious reasons.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Here's the thing though: contrary to what you might believe, there is such a thing as objective reality. Faith, while admired by the religious, actually isn't a good thing; it results in disastrous consequences because it is not based on reality, it is based on fantasy. There is nothing pompous about saying 'I don't believe in God because you have no convincing evidence'. Not all worldviews are created equal.
    No there is nothing pompous about saying that but there is something pompous about saying something like
    Deleted User wrote: »
    You can hardly lecture us about ignorance
    or looking down on others cause you think their beliefs are wrong.


  • #14
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,458 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Des Carter wrote: »
    Deleted User wrote: »
    [...] I'm not sure how you can believe there is no bias against non-Catholics. In fact, I daresay the discrimination against openly atheist parents and their children is worse than that against families of other faiths [...]
    Untrue but has already been discussed.
    From a post by Dades:
    Dades wrote: »
    I found out last weekend my cousin's daughter was denied a place in her local community school as she wasn't baptised.
    Des Carter wrote: »
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Children are simultaneously taught old-Earth creationism alongside physics and biology. What a mind-f*ck.
    Again untrue
    From the post above yours:
    phutyle wrote: »
    I went to a CBS. I distinctly remember the page about the origin of the universe in the religion book (I don't recall origins being discussed in science, biology or geography at all). [...] There were 3 columns on the page. One was about the Steady State Theory, one about Divine Creationism and the last about the Big Bang Theory. All 3 were given equal prominence, and each were presented as being as valid (or plausible) as the others. [...] The sum total of their formal education on the origin of the universe reduced to "the Bible has it right".
    Your arguments would be more convincing if the facts you produce to support them were more accurate.


  • #15
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I see no reason to think that homophobia has anything other than a religious source.

    Yes, because atheists are never homophobic, are they?
    "'To John Lauritsen: I am a female head of an American Atheists group. You are a cock- sucker. You like men and boys. You don't like women. We don't have cocks for you to suck. Also, we are not Marxists as you are. Form your own group of cock-sucking Atheist Marxists and be happy, kiddo; but don't count on me as an ally.' letter, May 20, 1976" (Madalyn O'Hair)


  • #16
    antiskeptic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭antiskeptic


    PDN wrote: »
    Yes, because atheists are never homophobic, are they?


    Aah.. but that was...
    May 20, 1976

    In the ever onward-&-upward evolution of man, 25 years is an eternity.


  • #17
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Des Carter wrote:
    Have you any statistics? Actually there was a thread here not too long ago about why you are an atheist and there were a large number of posts saying it was because their parents were.

    So what? That doesn't imply indoctrination in the slightest. All children are born atheist, therefore it is likely that they will not become theist if their parents are atheists.
    Des Carter wrote:
    There is no evidence for this whatsoever and I think this rarely happens.

    Of course there isn't; I was hypothesising, just like you were, except you asserted your speculation as though it were fact.
    Des Carter wrote:
    Again untrue

    No, it's not. Children of Catholic parents are brought up in national schools (and even public secondary schools) to pray and believe in a God who supposedly created the universe and all life on Earth, while at the same time they're taught about science.

    I don't need evidence, I had a personal experience. :pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:
    Des Carter wrote:
    Ya thats exactly what Im saying and if you were to use this as a negative you would also have to take the positives into account like a source of employment, tourism and the running and development of many communities.

    Do those things really counter-balance the negatives of religion? I really doubt it. The good works done by religious groups can be achieved by purely secular means.
    Des Carter wrote:
    No there is nothing pompous about saying that but there is something pompous about saying something like

    ...

    or looking down on others cause you think their beliefs are wrong.

    Sorry if you disagree, but religion does breed and demand ignorance. It's not even a matter of opinion. If you believe that the Earth is six thousand years old, or that the entire universe (as it is today) was created in a week, or that the theory of evolution is unsubstantiated, you are ignorant. Those beliefs are factually wrong.

    Additionally, it is purely my opinion that positive claims about the existence of a god have not met their burden of proof, and that beliefs based purely on faith are irrational and should not be respected. Why should I respect the religious any more than I respect the loon who believes in personal angels, homoeopathy and magical crystals which can cure disease?

    If something comes along which disagrees with religion, the latter is either dragged kicking and screaming into the present (the Catholic Church, which now accepts the fact of evolution) or it refuses to listen and threatens its detractors (Christian fundamentalism and Islam).
    PDN wrote: »
    Yes, because atheists are never homophobic, are they?

    I didn't say homophobics are exclusively religious; one can be homophobic and atheist. However, I believe the source of homophobia is religion (Abrahamic religion in this case). One may not believe in any deities but they may have cultural homophobia drilled into them from birth from parents or a community which is heavily influenced by religion.

    Homosexuality is considered a sin in Judaism, Christianity and Islam, but is commonplace in many species and was accepted as relatively normal in several high-profile civilisations which were not Abrahamic.

    A single letter from an obviously uneducated twat in 1976 is your ultimate weapon? :pac:


  • #18
    housetypeb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,197 ✭✭✭housetypeb


    antiskeptic wrote: »
    Aah.. but that was...1976



    In the ever onward-&-upward evolution of man, 25 years is an eternity.


    If 25 years is an etenity -how long is 34 years?


  • #19
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,458 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    While I don't wish to appear to approve, even for one second, of the homophobic rantings of woman who's been dead for 34 years (not 25, antiskeptic), I can't help but notice that she wrote it in (a presumably private)
    PDN wrote: »
    letter
    Whereas no less a man than our friend Ratzinger has described the state of being gay as "an objective disorder" "ordered" "towards an intrinsic moral evil". A description which is part of a much wider homophobic tendency within christianity.

    I've no idea how many people acquired Ms O'Hair's views from her -- I suspect few, if any -- but I know plenty of people who view Ratzinger's homophobic ravings, literally, as gospel.


  • #20
    Stercus Accidit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,758 ✭✭✭Stercus Accidit


    PDN wrote: »
    Yes, because atheists are never homophobic, are they?

    LOL

    Individuals now speak for the masses, halelujah. I take it that her homophobia came from the atheist bible and is taught to millions.


  • #21
    senordingdong
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭senordingdong


    Abiding by the doctrin of most religions ususally constitutes not having any fun.

    Simply put.


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  • #22
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    Deleted User wrote: »
    A single letter from an obviously uneducated twat in 1976 is your ultimate weapon? :pac:

    Not at all. Although I find it interesting that the most high-profile atheist in America, and the head of American Atheists, was "an obviously uneducated twat".

    What about China? Until very recently the vast majority of Chinese despised Abrahamic religions, yet, under an officially atheist regime, gays were rounded up, tortured, and executed. Indeed, the Chinese Psychiatric association still lists homosexuality as a mental disorder - and gays are still subjected to electric shock treatment to 'cure' them.

    That's all religions fault, is it?

    Your problem, and it's own that surfaces on this board from time to time, is that your own obvious bias makes your views so laughably unbalanced that you alienate anyone who doesn't alrready share your biases.

    Anything bad in the world is religion's fault.
    Anything good that developed through religion "would have happened anyway".

    Can you not see the fundamental dishonesty in this approach?

    George Bush is a 'bad' man - and he says he believes in God and prays. Proof that religion is bad!

    But hang on, lots of people think Obama is 'good' - and he says he believes in god and prays?

    Ah, then Obama must be pretending!

    What evidence is there that Obama is pretending, especially since he has talked about his relationship with God more than Bush ever did?

    Ah, the proof that Obama is pretending is that you can't be elected in America unless you're a Christian.

    But doesn't that argument apply just as much to Bush as it does to Obama?

    Let's not talk about that now. Obama isn't bad like George Bush, so he can't really be religious!

    This specious nonsense reaches its height when Christopher Hitchens, unwilling to concede that Rev Martin Luther King Jr was moved to do good by his faith (even though he continually quoted from Scripture) feels motivated to argue that this 'good' man wasn't really a Christian.

    Jesus wept!


  • #23
    Reed Cold Tweet
    Posts: 0 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Reed Cold Tweet


    senordingdong wrote: »
    Abiding by the doctrin of most religions ususally constitutes not having any fun.

    Simply put.

    Careful or we'll have the usual "you know it's true but you're only denying it so you don't have to give up your lifestyle" :pac:

    coconut: tbh, just like there are non-religious pro-lifers, there are non-religious homophobes. I think the religious ones might have more publicity but they're not alone


  • #24
    ColmDawson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭ColmDawson


    I very much doubt that religion was the source of homophobia.


  • #25
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    Stercus Accidit wrote: »
    LOL

    Individuals now speak for the masses, halelujah. I take it that her homophobia came from the atheist bible and is taught to millions.

    Congratulations. If Missing the point ever becomes an Olympic sport then Ireland is assured of a gold medal.

    The point is not that O'Hair's atheism made her homophobic - but rather that alll kinds of people are homophobic, including some religious people and some atheist people.
    I take it that her homophobia came from the atheist bible and is taught to millions
    No, the particular atheists that taught homophobia to the masses weren't in America. They were in the Soviet Union, China, Cuba, Eastern Europe, and even today are still at it in that bastion of Abrahamic religion known as North Korea.

    Many forms of religion are undoubtedly homophobic, as have been many forms of atheism. However, you can dodge that truth, and maintain the myth that all homophobia stems from religion, by playing the 'one true Scotsman' argument and maintaining that all those guys in the Soviet Union, China, Cuba, Eastern Europe, and North Korea weren't 'real' atheists at all.

    Or maybe you can argue that the atheistic regimes taught hatred for homosexuals because they had been corrupted by the nasty Christians.

    Or, even better, you can dismiss me as a troll for pointing out the rather massive pachyderm that looms in this forum everytime homophobia is discussed. :)


  • #26
    Stercus Accidit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,758 ✭✭✭Stercus Accidit


    ColmDawson wrote: »
    I very much doubt that religion was the source of homophobia.

    Maybe they evolved from a common ancestor.


  • #27
    Stercus Accidit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,758 ✭✭✭Stercus Accidit


    PDN wrote: »
    Congratulations. If Missing the point ever becomes an Olympic sport then Ireland is assured of a gold medal.

    The point is not that O'Hair's atheism made her homophobic - but rather that alll kinds of people are homophobic, including some religious people and some atheist people.

    Good point and well made, the point made in this thread as a whole is that religion is homophobic and can be used as a validation for that homophobia. Glad to see that point stands unchallenged.

    No, the particular atheists that taught homophobia to the masses weren't in America. They were in the Soviet Union, China, Cuba, Eastern Europe, and even today are still at it in that bastion of Abrahamic religion known as North Korea.

    Many forms of religion are undoubtedly homophobic, as have been many forms of atheism. However, you can dodge that truth, and maintain the myth that all homophobia stems from religion, by playing the 'one true Scotsman' argument and maintaining that all those guys in the Soviet Union, China, Cuba, Eastern Europe, and North Korea weren't 'real' atheists at all.

    Or maybe you can argue that the atheistic regimes taught hatred for homosexuals because they had been corrupted by the nasty Christians.

    Or, even better, you can dismiss me as a troll for pointing out the rather massive pachyderm that looms in this forum everytime homophobia is discussed. :)

    Atheism doesn't teach homophobia though, neither does non-stamp collection, I'd hazard a guess that the 'atheist' regimes you so masterfully listed were also non-stamp collecting.

    Face it, atheism isn't a doctrine or a system of beliefs, religions are.
    PDN wrote: »
    Congratulations. If Missing the point ever becomes an Olympic sport then Ireland is assured of a gold medal.

    Whoah nelly you were excited to write this post weren't you!


  • #28
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    Stercus Accidit wrote: »
    Atheism doesn't teach homophobia though, neither does non-stamp collection, I'd hazard a guess that the 'atheist' regimes you so masterfully listed were also non-stamp collecting.

    Your guess about stamp collecting is about as accurate as your opinions on homophobia: http://www.jstor.org/pss/179216 :pac:


  • #29
    liamw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,780 ✭✭✭liamw


    ColmDawson wrote: »
    I very much doubt that religion was the source of homophobia.

    Not the source, considering religion is man-made anyway. The primary culprit for homophobia persisting to modern day? Probably.


  • #30
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,458 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    PDN wrote: »
    No, the particular atheists that taught homophobia to the masses [...] are still at it in that bastion of Abrahamic religion known as North Korea.
    A reasonable point of view, given that Bradley Martin's excellent and exhaustively researched book on the regime in the DPRK, Under the Loving Care of the Fatherly Leader: North Korea and the Kim Dynasty, claims that Kim Sung, the regime's founder, grew up in Khabarovsk (AFAIR) in Russia, the son of evangelical christian preachers and was an evangelical himself pretty much until he became a jungle-revolutionary himself.

    Certainly, on my trip to the DPRK, there were quite a few non-deistic analogs of christian deistic beliefs to be seen. Had I noticed the copying earlier, I'd have kept notes.


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  • #31
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I see no reason to think that homophobia has anything other than a religious source.
    Religion isn't be the source of anything, it is the end result.


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