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Should Ireland Re-Join The Sterling?

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    telegraph keep saying euro bad, now they want us to replace that with pounds?

    what a joke, i suppose it sells papers for them


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,819 ✭✭✭dan_d


    No.
    (there's no shoulder shrug icon...)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,789 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    I'd rather join the Cuban Peso ...better picture than old Lizzie :D

    cuban-peso-cup.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭not yet


    yeah why not...we're all west brits anyway


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 695 ✭✭✭RealityCheck


    Oh that makes loads of sense. Our monitary policies are dictated from Frankfurt. I'm sure moving them to London will solve it. :rolleyes:


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 32 gmb


    Painful though it is I think that the only rational choice would be to adopt Sterling. The simple reason is that Ireland will be on a closer economic cycle to the UK than Germany & France and so would have be less likely to be as out of sync on interest rates than if Ireland stays in the Euro.

    It would make sense though to form an economic and political union so maybe this is the route to a united ireland when north and south will be reunited as part of the UK again :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,001 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    gmb wrote: »
    Painful though it is I think that the only rational choice would be to adopt Sterling. The simple reason is that Ireland will be on a closer economic cycle to the UK than Germany & France and so would have be less likely to be as out of sync on interest rates than if Ireland stays in the Euro.

    It would make sense though to form an economic and political union so maybe this is the route to a united ireland when north and south will be reunited as part of the UK again :rolleyes:

    Given the Uk's current em situation, we would probably be better to get in cycle with Germany and form sustainable economic policies for the future.

    The currency isn't really that important if you have stable policies, plenty of examples of countries with less stable currencies than the Euro not collapsing into the abyss.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2 MPSS


    if ireland werent with the Euro we would be experiencing a famine our irish pound would be worthless! :cool:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 178 ✭✭Hector Mildew


    MPSS wrote: »
    if ireland werent with the Euro we would be experiencing a famine our irish pound would be worthless! :cool:

    Not necessarily, the crazy borrowing and spending which resulted in our mess was fuelled by cheap credit due to the Euro


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,000 ✭✭✭dermo88


    A very good and interesting topic here, and one which many have overlooked.

    To begin with, lets have a look at the Irish Pound - Sterling exchange rate, all the way until the inception of the Euro in cash form in 2002.

    Sterling was roughly 10% overvalued against the Euro initially, in 1999, because UK interest rates were higher. The Irish Pound traded as low as 78 pence sterling in 2000-2001.

    If the Irish Pound still existed it is trading at 92 pence sterling now. It is on the basis of the old rate alone 20% overvalued. The cross rate between the two is around 1 Euro to 75 pence sterling.

    The problems began after the Northern Rock crisis, when Sterling began to slip dramatically against the Euro in late 2007.

    HOWEVER, thats not the whole story. Irish costs have dropped by 9% and British ones have risen by 6%. On that basis, the overvaluation vis a vis Sterling is a relatively mild 5%.

    _____________________________________________________________

    Lets look at interest rates, and the context of having a peg to the Euro and Sterling simultaneously. There would be dramatic revaluations of the Irish Pound taking place on an annual basis. Take a look at the performance of the Czech Koruna against the Euro for example. It has appreciuated in value. Ireland would have been vulnerable to flows of "hot" money, as interest rates were raised to stop the housing boom. Rates would hit 9% at peak, and then drop. I think it would have ended with a sharp rise in value with the Euro towards a peak in 2007, and kept at 1-1 on Sterling until that point. The collapse of an Irish Pound would have begun in early 2008, and it would drop dramatically from that point onwards until the Lehmans collapse in September 2008. At that point, the Irish Pound would trade at 80 pence Sterling, and below parity with the Euro from then on.

    At which point the IMF and ECB step in. It would have been an inflationary/deflationary roller coaster of chaos, as Irelands small open economy got battered by International markets.

    The housing boom would be much milder. But the pain of the bust, just as bad.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    Rejoin sterling ? Were we ever part of it, when decimalisation came in didn't we always have the punt ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 103 ✭✭locomo


    Not necessarily, the crazy borrowing and spending which resulted in our mess was fuelled by cheap credit due to the Euro

    Correct. If we had not been in the euro we would not be in this mess. We had not say over euro interest rates during the "tiger" years and as we have only 1% of the population of the eurozone we had to toe the tine to the germans. Had we been part of sterling we would have had more control over our interest rates. The UK can raise or lower theirs, devalue etc to suit their economy. Thats why they have been one of the main contributers to the EC over the years. Its why we are begging ( or will be before too long ) for an IMF loan now ( repayable by our grandchildren @ 5% interest p.a. ). just to continue to pay public servants + social welfare next year. If we had not left the tie with sterling we would not be in this mess. It is by far our main trading partner.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,718 ✭✭✭SkepticOne


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    Rejoin sterling ? Were we ever part of it, when decimalisation came in didn't we always have the punt ?
    We had a currency board with Sterling. This led to similar problems that we are currently having with the Euro so I don't think joining Sterling is a solution to our problems.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 128 ✭✭motherriley


    Forget the patriotism.... Sterling > Euro.

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/author/danielhannan/

    I would not trust any of them on the despatches program it showed UKIP mep's were just signing in to collect their expenses and went home for the day, all of them were on the gravy train and do not want to get off. They were not picking up peanuts either. :confused:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,000 ✭✭✭dermo88


    A very good and interesting topic here, and one which many have overlooked.

    To begin with, lets have a look at the Irish Pound - Sterling exchange rate, all the way until the inception of the Euro in cash form in 2002.

    Sterling was roughly 10% overvalued against the Euro initially, in 1999, because UK interest rates were higher. The Irish Pound traded as low as 78 pence sterling in 2000-2001.

    If the Irish Pound still existed it is trading at 92 pence sterling now. It is on the basis of the old rate alone 20% overvalued. The cross rate between the two is around 1 Euro to 75 pence sterling.

    The problems began after the Northern Rock crisis, when Sterling began to slip dramatically against the Euro in late 2007.

    HOWEVER, thats not the whole story. Irish costs have dropped by 9% and British ones have risen by 6%. On that basis, the overvaluation vis a vis Sterling is a relatively mild 5%.

    _____________________________________________________________

    Lets look at interest rates, and the context of having a peg to the Euro and Sterling simultaneously. There would be dramatic revaluations of the Irish Pound taking place on an annual basis between 2000-2006, from 78 pence to the Euro to the pre 1993 rate of 73 pence (Where the Euro was known as the ECU). Take a look at the performance of the Czech Koruna against the Euro for example. It has appreciated in value. Ireland would have been vulnerable to flows of "hot" money, as interest rates were raised to stop the housing boom. Rates would hit 9% at peak, and then to hold the currency value they would have hit 12% before local industries got incinerated by the lack of credit and high interest rates, just as they were in late 1992-1993. I think it would have ended with a sharp rise in value with the Euro towards a peak in 2007, and kept at 1-1 on Sterling until that point. The collapse of an Irish Pound would have begun in early 2008, and it would drop dramatically from that point onwards until the Lehmans collapse in September 2008. At that point, the Irish Pound would trade at 80 pence Sterling, and below parity with the Euro from then on.

    At which point the IMF and ECB step in. It would have been an inflationary/deflationary roller coaster of chaos, as Irelands small open economy got battered by International markets.

    The housing boom would be much milder. But the pain of the bust, fast quick and brutal. The recovery however, would be following UK lines only stronger due to the multinational sector. It would be anaemic, but sustainable.
    ______________________________________________________________

    Alternatives:

    A currency board system, using a basket of currencies, 30% Sterling, 30% Euro, 30% US Dollar, 10% IMF SDR's, is the best possible system for an economy like Ireland. However, if other comparable regimes, such as Singapore or Hong Kong are anything to go by, it condemns much of the population into debt/wage slavery in order to ensure an independent monetary policy. Its not a pleasant or fair society as a result. Its very unequal, and the social safety net we have in Ireland would be unable to exist in conjunction with it. We'd be competitive, but we'd be miserable, miserly, backstabbing, and always unsure of the future, and paranoid about our bank balances, credit ratings, health insurance, shares, stock options. Frankly....theres more to life.
    ______________________________________________________________

    30 years of hard work has gone into ensuring that the Euro succeeds. Each time Fianna Fail has been in charge, they have engaged in clientelist populist policies for the cronies and constituents, from a bead mauling ould coffin dodger who states "Ah Jaysus, was'nt Charlie wonderful, sure did'nt he give us da free travel" to the county councillor at the racetrack. It was far from the Airport and the Ferryport they were when mothers cried as the brightest and best left.

    With the right to use the Euro, a strong currency that can be used anywhere in Europe, without the Banks a 2.5% cut each time we wish to cross a border, comes the responsibility to manage domestic matters in line with 'best international practice'.

    That means no politician running off with the cheat sheet to Sandyford, and run the printing press so they can win the next election. The busts in Ireland invariably followed 3 years after pump priming to win a General Election.

    I think Irish people would do well to learn from this crisis. Its hell now, but it will get better. A bit more awareness of consequences of politicians who smile, promise the sun moon and stars is required. And a Central Bank that likes to say no might the best solution to the irresponsible cronies who have lead us to this impasse is required.

    Irish society is too intertwined at the higher echelons. The Aherns, the Haugheys, the Sutherlands, The Flynns, the Lenihans, the DeValeras and others too numerous to mention have gone to the same schools, colleges, and worked for the same firms. They have proven themselves to be beholden to each other first, party second, nation third, and the citizenry last.

    I conclude, sadly, that for 5 years, an outsider is required, just as it was in Iceland. Take the medicine, take the pain, and then a new beginning.

    A crisis is an opportunity. This crisis represents and opportunity to remove these cancerous entities, and ensure a better, fairer, freer, more rational sane nation.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,889 ✭✭✭sarumite


    Not to shoot the messenger.....but the daily torygraph? really? lol


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,102 ✭✭✭am i bovvered


    Not necessarily, the crazy borrowing and spending which resulted in our mess was fuelled by cheap credit due to the Euro

    i used to think this but now I realise we have not had the political leadership in the last 10 years to make the decisions needed, if we had not entered the euro the government would have placed people in the central Irish bank to implement their reckless policies.
    And we would have voted for it !!!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 219 ✭✭CCCP


    Judging by the cost of living in UK compared to Ireland, Regardless of the Uk's current situation the pound still has more bang for its buck, and is an appealing alternative.

    Also Judging from the fact that the UK under various incarnations has about 1000 more years of experience running an economy than the Irish, and a mighty one at that, I think they have less to worry about then us.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 575 ✭✭✭RockinRolla


    Well, we certainly have proved to the world and the British in particular that we are incapable of governing ourselves..

    Padraig Pearce wept.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,604 ✭✭✭Kev_ps3


    You disgraceful traitorous west brits would love that wouldn't you. Pathetic.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 972 ✭✭✭MultiUmm


    Kev_ps3 wrote: »
    You disgraceful traitorous west brits would love that wouldn't you. Pathetic.

    "West Brit" ... the most tired strung out phrase in almost every thread related to the UK. :D

    It's thinking pragmatically, not thinking like a "west-brit". Do try it some time.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 767 ✭✭✭HxGH


    The Australian dollar looks nice... How about it? :pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 103 ✭✭locomo


    Even during the "celtic tiger" boom years we were getting billions of euros + pounds each year in grants from the 2 main EC contributers, Germany + UK.
    We have proved we are not capable of governing ourselves. The proof is the lender of last resort, the IMF being here, because nobody else will lend to us anymore. Fact.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭Jeboa Safari


    sarumite wrote: »
    Not to shoot the messenger.....but the daily torygraph? really? lol

    There was a suggestion of it in the Financial Times today aswell.

    Leaving aside politics, what would the economic implications be?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,911 ✭✭✭HellFireClub


    We've sucked 20% of the ECB dry and we are still in the sh*t's. Do you think the Sterling would have us?!?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    Well, we certainly have proved to the world and the British in particular that we are incapable of governing ourselves..

    saupload_norway_others_surplus_eu_countries.png

    greek%20debt%202.jpg

    I think we'll go with Europe for the foreseeable future.
    There was a suggestion of it in the Financial Times today aswell.
    This was the same Financial Times that was spreading unfounded rumours lately about overnight lending problems for Irish banks?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,952 ✭✭✭two wheels good


    locomo wrote: »
    If we had not been in the euro we would not be in this mess.

    You're fogetting all the incentives and tax-breaks that fuelled the boom. True, control of national interest rate would have been an effective tool but the govt could have used other means to dampen the boom and the money supply.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    And lest we forget...
    In 1976 Britain faced financial crisis. The Labour government was forced to apply to the International Monetary Fund (IMF) for a loan of nearly $4 billion. IMF negotiators insisted on deep cuts in public expenditure, greatly affecting economic and social policy.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 350 ✭✭rubensni


    SkepticOne wrote: »
    We had a currency board with Sterling. This led to similar problems that we are currently having with the Euro so I don't think joining Sterling is a solution to our problems.

    If the Euro breaks up/splits it might be the only solution. Ireland is too small to have a free floating currency.
    Kev_ps3 wrote: »
    You disgraceful traitorous west brits would love that wouldn't you. Pathetic.

    Get over yourself, there was incredible anti-British sentiment at the foundation of the state but we kept sterling as the alternative wasn't feasible. When we broke the link with sterling we immediately pegged ourselves to the Deutschmark...which became the Euro.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭thetonynator


    We would be far better off reintroduce the punt at 1:1 with the euro and let it become devalued making our debt a lot easier to pay off.


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