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Black & Tans painting in the Pharmacy Building

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭Eliot Rosewater


    dog_pig wrote: »
    Saying that a people's suffering isn't worthy of sensitivity/respect because that suffering wasn't as 'bad' as the worst possible example one could give is absolutely ridiculous, I suggest you rethink your logic.

    May I suggest that people read what I actually say before making suggestions of me?

    I said that the actions of the Nazi regime were not proportional to that of the Black and Tans. I said that having a painting of the Black and Tans hanging in a building is not comparable to running around UCC with a Nazi flag.

    I did not justify the Black and Tans. Though nearly every time I've tried to challenge the "Easter Risers are Heroes / Brits never did a good thing here" narrative I've been pigeon-holed as a British sympathiser or a West Brit.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    I think it's surprising decision to say the least. I'd be interested to hear the artists motivation behind it. Also what way the painting is labelled - if it's correctly contextualised and depending on the artists motivation it may not be that big a deal. On the other hand if it's an attempt at some sort of revisionist rehabilitiation of them then I would have a major issue with it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 117 ✭✭UnionOfV


    dog_pig wrote: »
    Regardless of you finding it regrettable or not, there most definitely is a strong correlation between the two.
    What are you basing this off of? Outside of the sphere of Northern Irish Unionism, I have never encountered any pro-union protestants, even among English immigrants. In fact I have never even heard of a single Irish individual who endorsed the actions of the Black and Tans, regardless of religion. We aren't living in early 20th century Ireland any longer, we should leave these ridiculous stereotypes behind.


  • Registered Users Posts: 685 ✭✭✭dog_pig


    UnionOfV wrote: »
    What are you basing this off of? Outside of the sphere of Northern Irish Unionism, I have never encountered any pro-union protestants, even among English immigrants. In fact I have never even heard of a single Irish individual who endorsed the actions of the Black and Tans, regardless of religion. We aren't living in early 20th century Ireland any longer, we should leave these ridiculous stereotypes behind.

    I think you've misinterpreted what I've said.

    The point I was making was that as the artist is (likely) a southern Irish Catholic, it is extremely unlikely he would be inclined to produce a piece glorifying the Black & Tans.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,477 ✭✭✭grenache


    Orizio wrote: »
    ...have you checked out the actual purpose of the painting, by, for example, contacting the artist and asking him? Before you decided this was the greatest injutice in Irish history since Michael Collins?
    i do not care for the purpose or artistic function of the painting. Its mere existence on the wall of any building on this island is a fcuking disgrace.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59 ✭✭JohnyDarko


    grenache wrote: »
    i do not care for the purpose or artistic function of the painting. Its mere existence on the wall of any building on this island is a fcuking disgrace.

    Wow, over-sensitive much? Just erase the whole episode from our nations collective history and deny they ever existed or that they were human beings just like you and me?

    As others have pointed out, its not as if the painting is glorifying them like.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,725 ✭✭✭charlemont


    Iv a feeling once the UCC staff read this thread, the insulting picture will be removed, hopefully thrown into the River Lee...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,477 ✭✭✭grenache


    JohnyDarko wrote: »
    Wow, over-sensitive much?
    Nope. I just don't see how putting up a bunch of thugs on a university wall is appropriate.
    JohnyDarko wrote: »
    Just erase the whole episode from our nations collective history and deny they ever existed or that they were human beings just like you and me?
    You misunderstand the basis of my complaint. I'm asking UCC to take it down, not erase our history. I can't change our history, i wouldn't want to; its made us who we are.


  • Registered Users Posts: 685 ✭✭✭dog_pig


    grenache wrote: »
    i do not care for the purpose or artistic function of the painting. Its mere existence on the wall of any building on this island is a fcuking disgrace.

    Surely by that logic any book that mentions the Black & Tans found in the library be thrown out as well?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,477 ✭✭✭grenache


    dog_pig wrote: »
    Surely by that logic any book that mentions the Black & Tans found in the library be thrown out as well?
    No, that is not my logic, that's not what i'm getting at. Sticking up a painting of them and reading about them in a history book are two totally different things. This painting inadvertently glorfies them. A history book merely tells of their actions, a statement of historical facts.

    Why do you think the two are the same? :confused:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59 ✭✭JohnyDarko


    grenache wrote: »
    Nope. I just don't see how putting up a bunch of thugs on a university wall is appropriate.

    Couldn't you say that about any painting depicting soldiers, police or even some people? How do you know that wasn't the one guy who was a perfect gentleman to all? Or the artists wish of what it should have been like: peaceful.
    You misunderstand the basis of my complaint. I'm asking UCC to take it down, not erase our history. I can't change our history, i wouldn't want to; its made us who we are.

    Thats not what you posted, you believed its mere existence on any wall in Ireland would be a disgrace, which is very small minded indeed. Its just a painting of a man.

    If it was more like this then I might be inclined to agree with ya, but its not, and you're making a mountain out of a molehill.
    Untitled-8.jpg?t=1289781509


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,477 ✭✭✭grenache


    JohnyDarko wrote: »
    Couldn't you say that about any painting depicting soldiers, police or even some people? How do you know that wasn't the one guy who was a perfect gentleman to all? Or the artists wish of what it should have been like: peaceful.



    Thats not what you posted, you believed its mere existence on any wall in Ireland would be a disgrace, which is very small minded indeed. Its just a painting of a man.

    If it was more like this then I might be inclined to agree with ya, but its not, and you're making a mountain out of a molehill.
    Untitled-8.jpg?t=1289781509
    But i and several others on here find it offensive, so it clearly is not a molehill. Its about having respect for our ancestors. You know those people who fought for our freedom? 'Respect' - something the men in the painting didn't have.

    You seriously think i'm small minded for complaining about a painting depicting a bunch of thugs smiling? If that's your definition of "small-minded" then you're hardly worth debating with.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 874 ✭✭✭Max001


    grenache wrote: »
    I have a major objection with this piece of "art" being given space in an Irish university. Let us not forget that this group of thugs/criminals raped and plundered the country less than 100 years ago. They shot my own grandfather in the leg for the heinous crime of refusing to answer a question. Yet there they are in all their glory, on the wall to the right just inside the main door, smiling and laughing and immortalised forever by an over-accommodating University College Cork. :mad:

    What next, Oxford to put up an IRA mural? :rolleyes:

    Have you taken the time to ask the artist what s/he was seeking to depict? For all you know, this painting might be depicting their brutality.
    Just because you're outraged by what you think the image represents, thats no reason to censor artistic expression. Judging by your level of intelligence and inability to engage brain before mouth, your grandfather probably deserved a lot worse and the soldier was probably aiming for his balls but missed these tiny objects owing to the lack of a sniper scope :p


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,477 ✭✭✭grenache


    Max001 wrote: »
    Have you taken the time to ask the artist what s/he was seeking to depict? For all you know, this painting might be depicting their brutality.
    Just because you're outraged by what you think the image represents, thats no reason to censor artistic expression. Judging by your level of intelligence and inability to engage brain before mouth, your grandfather probably deserved a lot worse and the soldier was probably aiming for his balls but missed these tiny objects owing to the lack of a sniper scope :p
    Cut the crap, i do not care for what he was "trying" to infer, i know in my own mind that it is disrespectful to those who have gone before. People who actually did something for their country.

    Also If you cant debate without throwing insults at fellow posters, then i suggest you head over to After Hours along with the other children :) Judging by your crude remarks about a deceased family member of mine, you are an obnoxious individual.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,460 ✭✭✭Orizio


    Thread closed.

    I'll come back tomorrow when I am sober, and yes, I will hand out bans. ;)


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