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PWC email scandal

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  • 11-11-2010 3:53pm
    #1
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭


    Well, I am sure all of you have heard about this by now:
    The e-mail with the catchline “This would be my shortlist for the top 10” contained pictures of young women who had recently joined the firm.

    One e-mail seen by The Irish Times contained 13 photographs with the employees’ names and departments and was circulated among 17 male staff members.

    One comment on the forwarded e-mail commended the “great work” done in compiling the list.

    The e-mail was later circulated to people working in other companies before coming to the attention of the media.
    Source

    The idea of this thread would be ideally to get mens perspective on it. I would view this, while inappropriate, simply the writing down of what men would probably be saying anyway. Is this much ado about nothing?
    Even in my secondary school there was something going on similar to this except with the female teachers.

    So what are your views on it? Does this happen in your workplace?


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    #2
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Well, I am sure all of you have heard about this by now:


    Source

    The idea of this thread would be ideally to get mens perspective on it. I would view this, while inappropriate, simply the writing down of what men would probably be saying anyway. Is this much ado about nothing?
    Even in my secondary school there was something going on similar to this except with the female teachers.

    So what are your views on it? Does this happen in your workplace?


    Most of it was fine but some of it had unpleasant language which was not fine!


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    #3
    Ms.Odgeynist
    Registered Users Posts: 170 ✭✭Ms.Odgeynist


    Much ado about nothing doesn't quite do it justice.
    The only interesting thing about this story is the stupidity of those involved in allowing these emails to go viral.
    The media are having a field day with the sexist slant, who'd have thunk it?
    The truth is that it is no more sexist than a group of female associates sitting in the canteen and agreeing that one of the male associates is a dreamboat!

    PWC should be investigating the misuse of company emails and company time. Period. Alas the world we live in demands that these damsels in distress have their honour restored. Nevermind that they are big girls now! Big equal strong independent upwardly mobile females! Poor things - I hope they're all ok


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    #4
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    The lads involved may even lose their jobs over this, which is a joke imo.


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    #5
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    13 were fired from Morgan Stanley in 2006 and imo it was less serious then this. So it's taken seriously.

    It goes on in all big companies and yes, it's much ado about nothing. Their mistake was getting caught, only a fool uses company email for this.

    Most likely be fired for a breach of email procedure, that's what they will be hung on.

    But it's not that they offended the girls that is the issue for PWC.
    It's that they dragged PWC in the national and now international media. Some of their clients won't care but some will.


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    #6
    Otis Driftwood
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,925 ✭✭✭Otis Driftwood


    Serious replies only folks,there is a thread in AH for those of you that cant reply in a constructive manner.I dont want to have to delete any more posts but will.

    Personally I think its pretty harmless all in all however the sheer idiocy of those involved is frankly staggering.

    Holy hell,you send emails like this from your company email address to other people in the company.Obviously this was going to get out.

    I wouldnt be surprised to see those that started the emails getting the boot.There would be a big argument there for gross misconduct.

    At best they can expect a severe ass kicking from management.


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    #7
    bigwormbundoran
    Registered Users Posts: 561 ✭✭✭bigwormbundoran


    Ms.Odgeynist wrote: »
    The only interesting thing about this story is the stupidity of those involved in allowing these emails to go viral.

    This is my views precisely, other than this it would have being going down anyway, as in my experience it always happens in some form when ya get a group of lads get together, perhaps not to such an organised degree but grading of some description non the less. Duno if the lassies do the same, but id imagine they do.


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    #8
    Macha
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,376 Mod ✭✭✭✭Macha


    Didn't some women get in trouble for doing this a while back?

    If there's one way in which men and women are the same, it's eyeing up the talent.


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    #9
    BopNiblets
    Registered Users Posts: 3,579 ✭✭✭BopNiblets


    Bit stupid really doing this in work, putting your lechery in writing or on record, just keep it to yourself and friends or just don't do it at all.


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    #10
    Gillo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,566 ✭✭✭Gillo


    I caught a few girls in a previous job doing it years ago, a girl in one branch faxed over (about ten years eleven years ago before they had email) a chart of guys in the company, my boss made a point that her and the other girl in the shop were waiting on a fax for them and it was very private. As soon as it arrived they grabbed it and legged it out for a smoke. I hit the reprint button on the fax:D never had such good leverage for getting away with stuff!!

    When I heard about it earlier today in work, they way I put it was look everyone's gonna talk about the opposite sex, but there's a case for having some "cop on" about it. TBH putting stuff like that in an email, my own opinion is that it was a bit much.
    Pity the poor girls in this case, getting theirs faces splashed over the papers.


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    #11
    Revolution9
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,743 ✭✭✭Revolution9


    The Press should be more ashamed over this than the lads who actually did it. Those unfortunate girls have had their faces thrown around almost every newspaper in the country. Report on the story by all means, but don't add insult to injury by printing the bloody pictures. Embarassing by all accounts.


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    #12
    SuperInfinity
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,449 ✭✭✭SuperInfinity


    Revolution9 wrote: »
    The Press should be more ashamed over this than the lads who actually did it. Those unfortunate girls have had their faces thrown around almost every newspaper in the country. Report on the story by all means, but don't add insult to injury by printing the bloody pictures. Embarassing by all accounts.

    Did they really? lol. How retarded is that? :rolleyes:

    Jesus, I never realized the press were that dense. I want to see what they did!!!

    I feel bad for the ladies that it happened to though, if I were them I would sue the people in the press that did this for defamation. What stupid idiots...


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    #13
    Dord
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,817 ✭✭✭✭Dord


    Revolution9 wrote: »
    The Press should be more ashamed over this than the lads who actually did it. Those unfortunate girls have had their faces thrown around almost every newspaper in the country. Report on the story by all means, but don't add insult to injury by printing the bloody pictures. Embarassing by all accounts.

    Aye, the Indo had their faces on the front page today! :eek: :rolleyes:

    If they get fired then so be it. I think PWC would be right to do that. They should have some respect in future.


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    #14
    Otis Driftwood
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,925 ✭✭✭Otis Driftwood


    SuperInfinity,you have TWICE ignored an on thread warning about posting constructively ie not posting AH type responses.Any more rubbish you will be banned,no exceptions.


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    #15
    Maguined
    Registered Users Posts: 8,247 ✭✭✭Maguined


    Got the original mail forwarded to me today, felt old when a derogatory slang word was used to describe the women and I didn't know what that word meant.

    I don't understand some of the waves of anger and indignation that some people feel so strongly over this as it's something I expect goes on all the time but I do think the gob****es deserve to get fired for being stupid enough to get caught, everyone knows you don't use your companies email to be sending these sorts of messages about your fellow staff.


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    #16
    uberwolf
    Registered Users Posts: 7,580 ✭✭✭uberwolf


    Maguined wrote: »
    Got the original mail forwarded to me today, felt old when a derogatory slang word was used to describe the women and I didn't know what that word meant.

    it's gained a foothold thanks to its frequent use in the 'Inbetweeners'

    The newspapers actions here are really reprehensible. False indignation and moral high ground whilst putting their pics on every newstand in the country


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    #17
    Revolution9
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,743 ✭✭✭Revolution9


    Their stupidity is the only thing of interest. Of course people will compare and contrast co-workers, show me an office where it doesn't happen, just save it for the pub during lunch not through the company email address.

    The bloke who created Facebook did pretty much the exact same thing except on a far grander scale in his pre-Facebook days.


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    #18
    The Big Red Button
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,390 ✭✭✭The Big Red Button


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    The lads involved may even lose their jobs over this, which is a joke imo.

    But how would they not lose their jobs?! :confused:

    These guys are dealing personally with some of the biggest clients in Ireland every single day of the week. Members of staff of those same clients receive "that" mail in their inbox. And they're expected to take those particular PWC auditors seriously?!


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    #19
    Revolution9
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,743 ✭✭✭Revolution9


    uberwolf wrote: »
    it's gained a foothold thanks to its frequent use in the 'Inbetweeners'

    I havn't seen the email, what old school slang word did they use?


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    #20
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,120 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    It's not Gunt is it?, I only head of it recently, all the young ones know what it means. I felt old.


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    #21
    copacetic
    Subscribers Posts: 16,568 ✭✭✭✭copacetic


    clunge was the word used.

    I'd expect the people who forwarded it on to lose their jobs and hopefully some of the women affected and pwc will sue the papers who printed their pictures and/or names. Cast iron win for them.

    I don't see why people think it is harmless, these people had the time and inclination to trawl trhough all the internal pictures of new junior staff and rate them as the 'top ten' and email it around along with a epitaph indicating the women were only a body part. No doubt there was plenty of sniggering behind peoples backs also. Misuse of company email system, indentification photos, sexual harrasment, opening up company to legal action and just basic pure idiocy. PWC are currently just working out the best way to fire them without any further risk of legal issues.


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    #22
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,120 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Learned another new word, i'm not with it these days. :o

    Don't think anyone should loose there job, the guy who put it together maybe but it's something that happens every year at pwc only some idiot decided to send it to the outside world.
    The indo has proved it to be nothing more than a red top with their coverage.
    There's a lot more important things going on, the girls are owed an apology and the guys need a boliking but that's it, lesson learned, move on. Oh and sue the papers that won't happen though.


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    #23
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    I think the lesson for people who find themselves the subject of these type of things is to keep stum or you could be headline news!


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    #24
    folan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭folan


    Id expect the guys to be in alot of trouble, exactly the same as if girls did it.

    Do not do something like this at work. It can be construed as sexual harassment. That is a serious issue, for both males and females.

    I have no sympathy for them. They were at work, not sitting around having a pint. As far as im concerned, its common sense and common decency.

    Work is work, thats why its called work. Its not called funny email time.


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    #25
    Handsome Bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,905 ✭✭✭✭Handsome Bob


    Childish in the extreme, and I would of said that too if the gender roles were reversed. These were senior officials too apparently which just makes it all the more embarassing. But I wouldn't say they feel embarassed, I'd say these are the kind of brass neck frat boy clowns who never grew up from their college days.


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    #26
    Euro_Kraut
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,957 ✭✭✭Euro_Kraut


    SuperInfinity wrote: »
    Did they really? lol. How retarded is that? :rolleyes:

    Jesus, I never realized the press were that dense.

    They didn't do it out of stupidity or lack of foresight. Its was a cynical calculated move to beef up sales while at the same time faining indignation over the issue.

    The papers that published the pictures were the Irish Daily Mail and the Irish Independent. We would be better off as a county without those two papers, imo.


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    #27
    Imhof Tank
    Registered Users Posts: 2,122 ✭✭✭Imhof Tank


    Maguined wrote: »
    I don't understand some of the waves of anger and indignation that some people feel so strongly over this as [B]it's something I expect goes on all the time [/B].

    If people arent going to be indignant then how is this sort of thing ever going to change.

    My firm's employee handbook defines conduct which includes displaying sexually suggestive material, or sending suggestive or sexually explicit correspondence, unwelcome sexual comments or jokes as sexual harassment.

    Most of the replies in this thread seem to be along the lines of they were idiots to get caught etc, and I suppose comming from that viewpoint, the whole equality agenda is just political correctness gone mad.

    If PWC dont fire these guys then the girls (all of the intake, not just the top 10) would be have a better shot at suing the employer than they would have at suing the newspapers.

    Publishing the pics in the paper was purient in the extreme - but they know their target market and they only reflect what the readers want to read about. The Indo may not be popular with Boards.ie posters but isnt it by far the biggest selling daily in the country?


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    #28
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users Posts: 7,771 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    Can someone explain in what way the emails are actually sexist? I understand that they could be taken as sexual harassment, and the guys who did it were stupid and deserve punishment, but in what way where they sexist?


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    #29
    Otis Driftwood
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,925 ✭✭✭Otis Driftwood


    Because they were rated on their looks only.


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    #30
    dubhthach
    Registered Users Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    There's also the issue that they all signed email & Internet usage policies when they joined PwC. The email is in breach of these signed policies so they can be fired on that alone.


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    #31
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    Revolution9 wrote: »
    The Press should be more ashamed over this than the lads who actually did it. Those unfortunate girls have had their faces thrown around almost every newspaper in the country. Report on the story by all means, but don't add insult to injury by printing the bloody pictures. Embarassing by all accounts.
    Euro_Kraut wrote: »
    They didn't do it out of stupidity or lack of foresight. Its was a cynical calculated move to beef up sales while at the same time faining indignation over the issue.

    The papers that published the pictures were the Irish Daily Mail and the Irish Independent. We would be better off as a county without those two papers, imo.

    Evening Herald slapped their pics all over the front page too. I'm sure the women just want to have this forgotten about ASAP. Now everyone in the country knows their faces and they are the butts of jokes nationwide (I'm sure most work canteens have the aforementioned newspapers with employess palying the very same game now for the craic). The paapers should be ashamed (they wont be).
    Oddly, on the same day the Daily Mail's front page headline was of similar 'outrage' in relation to a story about people illegally buying abortion pills over the internet. In their article they put down the website adresses and prices! Well done lads. I had no idea how to buy abortion pills online before the article was printed but do now, just like how I didn't know who the women in the PWC case were but do now. :rlleyes:

    The men involved in the PWC should be seriously reprimanded for misuse of company emails, wasting company time and bringing public riduicule to the company. Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if the ringleaders were fired and they wouldnt have much right to feel aggrieved (saying "Everyone else does it!" doesn't absolve blame either).
    It's only natural to comment on members of the opposite sex you find attractive. Talk like that should be restricted to pub banter however.


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