Inset Stove

Dilbert75 · 09-11-2010 08:35PM

What's the actual size of the opening?

sooty_soupy · 09-11-2010 09:16PM

positron wrote: »

As mentioned earlier, hoping to get a solid fuel stove of some shape or form, but ideally a inset stove - a very helpful local fireplace's person said I have no choice but to remove the existing inside part of the existing fireplace. This is what I have now (it's about 15-16 years old).

Or he suggested I could go for a standalone stove but I am thinking an inset one would look much cleaner. Is my only choice is to rip apart what I think is nice looking antique-finish thingees? Is this design ancient? Is there any other options out there...! Apologies for all the questions - it's the cold messing with my brain..!

Thanks in advance..!!

Would love to know how to post pictures in a body of text, but I can email you some photos of inset we have done with fireplaces like this if anyone wants to see them.

positron · 09-11-2010 10:35PM

sooty_soupy, it's very easy to post photos like above. Just upload the photo into a free picture hosting service like http://imageshack.us/ . Once you have the picture loaded to imageshack, click on the "i" icon by the side of it, and you will get a bunch of links - pick the one for 'Forums' and paste that here. Simples!

Dilbert75, if it's the gap at the front you are referring to - because of the hood and it's design, the maximum height I can get is 585mm (23") and width is 400mm (approx 16").

Thanks again for ideas and suggestions - looking at every option now as I have to at least the living room warm all day from end of Nov..!!

Dilbert75 · 09-11-2010 10:48PM

positron wrote: »

Dilbert75, if it's the gap at the front you are referring to - because of the hood and it's design, the maximum height I can get is 585mm (23") and width is 400mm (approx 16").

Positron I'm sure I won't be the first to post the link to the dimensions of the Clearview vision inset http://www.clearviewstoves.com/visinsetdimensions.htm. The fire back would have to be removed but if you check your measurements on the width you might find a fit.

sooty_soupy · 09-11-2010 10:56PM

positron wrote: »

sooty_soupy, it's very easy to post photos like above. Just upload the photo into a free picture hosting service like http://imageshack.us/ . Once you have the picture loaded to imageshack, click on the "i" icon by the side of it, and you will get a bunch of links - pick the one for 'Forums' and paste that here. Simples!

Dilbert75, if it's the gap at the front you are referring to - because of the hood and it's design, the maximum height I can get is 585mm (23") and width is 400mm (approx 16").

Thanks again for ideas and suggestions - looking at every option now as I have to at least the living room warm all day from end of Nov..!!

I might have sorted it out through the boards site already Positron, but thanks for your help. Try these and see what I mean. One of the images shows what someone insisted we did, to keep the tiles, but I didn't think much to this idea, but the others really look the part in my opinion.

Best regards

inset in modified fireplace.jpg

inset steel insert.jpg

Inset adapted to fireplace.JPG

inset trim.jpg

sooty_soupy · 09-11-2010 10:59PM

Dilbert75 wrote: »

Positron I'm sure I won't be the first to post the link to the dimensions of the Clearview vision inset http://www.clearviewstoves.com/visinsetdimensions.htm. The fire back would have to be removed but if you check your measurements on the width you might find a fit.

Subtle Dilbert....LOL ;-}

positron · 10-11-2010 11:08AM

Dilbert75 wrote: »

... Clearview vision inset http://www.clearviewstoves.com/visinsetdimensions.htm.

Dilbert, Thanks a million for the link, looks like a brilliant stove with great reviews all around. I rechecked the inner metal frame, and it looks like it's 400mm or may be even couple of mm less than that - so I doubt the 405mm Clearview would fit into that. I will re-measure again tonight - just hoping..!

sooty_soupy wrote: »

Try these and see what I mean. One of the images shows what someone insisted we did, to keep the tiles, but I didn't think much to this idea, but the others really look the part in my opinion.

Thanks sooty_soupy, they do look well. The local fireplaces person also suggested something similar, although he didn't say if I can save the outer metal design or not, but he said it would cost me about 200 to get that done, on top of the inset stove (and that the inset stove - a Tripp - doesn't require any flue lining or anything etc too) - over all he 'guesstimated' it to be around 800 euro, including the stove and installation.

However, if I am going that far, would it cost me much more to remove all of the fireplace that's there, and get an inset stove fitted flush to the wall, like in this picture for example?

Thanks again for all your comments and suggestions so far - invaluable really!

billy_beckham · 10-11-2010 01:28PM

sooty_soupy wrote: »

I might have sorted it out through the boards site already Positron, but thanks for your help. Try these and see what I mean. One of the images shows what someone insisted we did, to keep the tiles, but I didn't think much to this idea, but the others really look the part in my opinion.

Best regards

inset in modified fireplace.jpg

inset steel insert.jpg

Inset adapted to fireplace.JPG

inset trim.jpg

Hi,
I'd like to get something like this done myself. We have a fireplace not unlike the one in those pictures, its 16" with a half moon type insert. I'm wondering does the fireback have to come out? Also what type of stove is shown and finally what's a ballpark figure for the damage!! :-D

rpmcs · 10-11-2010 08:32PM

Hi positron, if you were to go for bare wall with stove you have to take in to account heat on to plaster above, as cracking my occur, few ways out of it but if you have block wall with sand and cement plaster it will probably crack in my opinion,

I hear you mention Tripp inset stove, from my experience in these inset stoves, very poor to say the least, not a big fan of type of stoves that just sit with fire back, small box to start and then efficiency, but if you want to block up a hole and only small budget.... only advice .

If you use your open fire often, well i honestly think that its a good investment, a good efficient stove will pay for itself very quickly, for example a good stove will cut down on amount of fuel you use and parts wont burn out as quickly as cheaper options,
all just my opinion,hope it helps,

positron · 13-11-2010 10:35PM

rpmcs, thanks for the warning about Tripp, would you suggest any other brands that good and now too expensive? As I am now considering what sooty suggested - I might be able to fit any size inset stove as long as it doesn't require any more work other than what was done on sooty's pics.

rpmcs · 13-11-2010 11:10PM

Glad to be some help, as to stoves it depends on budget but as far as my experience goes, stovax, arrow, esse, are all pretty reliable stoves, have no personal experience of clear view but seem ok too.

Also changing insert as said is not a big job, so my advice is go for it as it's well worth it, but bear in mind you need a certain clearance from top of stoves to timber surrround, so just check that.

massey woman · 16-11-2010 11:09PM

How far out from the centre of the flue can the stove stand out
is this distance or space connected with a standard pipe say 10" out or horizontal and then 90 degree bend up vertically into flue
Is there a maximum recommendation please

positron · 17-11-2010 06:37PM

After many more days of googling, I might have found a stove that actually fits my fire (pictures posted earlier in the thread).

It's called "Behemia 30" - any experience with this particular one?

http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/wood_burning_stoves/Bohemia-30-multifuel-stove.html

Thanks a mill!

PS: Actually I have found a few. Aarrow Acord 5, Mendip, Villager Puffin, Stovax Stockton 3 etc - there's a good few that fits my current fireplace opening of 395mm width, 560 or so height.

rpmcs · 17-11-2010 10:57PM

When you say fit your fireplace,, ??? just remember you need about 300mm in front of stove of non combustible material, and if you push stove back in to opening it could do damage to stove if there is not enough air movement around the stove and a lot of heat gets wasted, you would need the stove standing out.

positron · 18-11-2010 03:08PM

rpmcs, thanks for mentioning that - I didn't know stoves had to be free standing. I was hoping that I can take the fireback and make some more "depth" and slide a stove in there. This will give full hearth in front of the stove, but there wouldn't be much room on the sides, back or top of the stove. In fact I didn't realise there needs to be much room around there - how does the insert stoves like Tripp work as they sit flush at the front?

rpmcs · 18-11-2010 11:47PM

They are convection stoves,double box, built in a way to circulate warm air around the inner box and out the vents at the top, known as inset stoves.

paddy147 · 19-11-2010 12:05AM

Stovax Riva 66 multi fuel inset stove installed in my house..
Sumertime all day and night long in my house.Allmost have to get out me bermuda shorts,its that warm and cosy.:D

Black granite hearth is built flush into the floor with the oak flooring,so its all level and you can wwalk over the hearth without tripping over it.

Very handy when it comes to kids messing about with their toys and playing.

rpmcs · 19-11-2010 12:22AM

Hi paddy, lovely stove, have the riva 40 myself!!
Just wee note, doubt the skirting board would meet safety/ insurance specs in my opinion,
I would advise that it would be cut back in line with the granite and maybe to make it look finished return a granite slip up the wall the same height as skirting board, if you know what i mean,

paddy147 · 19-11-2010 12:25AM

I understand.

But its ok the way it is,for now anyway.Im not going cutting any thing any more,as I just want to sit back and enjoy my house now,as its been a long and rocky road to get to the end of the build.

I might look into it,when I get my energy and enthusiam back,in the future.

rpmcs · 19-11-2010 12:36AM

As long as your happy,but it would make any insurance void as it in direct line in front of stove that should have non combustible material, just so your aware.
enjoy the lovely heat, nice stove.

another note i think i notice a tv cable hanging ready for tv, be carefull as it it gets quite hot above stove, might overheat tv.

positron · 19-11-2010 01:33PM

rpmcs wrote: »

They are convection stoves,double box, built in a way to circulate warm air around the inner box and out the vents at the top, known as inset stoves.

Thanks again rpmcs - I get you now, I am a bit of dope really!

Refocusing my search to inset stoves, I think the Esse range might fit into the opening - they are saying the width of the opening should be between 396mm to 420mm - I think mine is probably exactly 396 mm (I wonder why they mention the range, is it to allow for expansion?)

Height could still be an issue, and I might have to remove the hood part of my existing fireplace - I had a look inside and it looks like it was fixed to the rest of the metal frame using fire cement or something like that - not sure if I would be able to scrape it off and some how detach the hood alone from the rest of the structure. I think this would look like one of the pictures that sooty posted - fireplace adapted to take an insert stove.

PS: Re-reading all comments - rpmcs has already suggested removing the hood, inner frame and the fireback and get a slightly larger insert stove. Makes
sense really. Looks like I am just trying to minimize work and cost, but may be it's cheaper on the long run to go with what rpmcs is suggesting. Thanks again.

yop · 22-11-2010 10:47AM

Paddy a few questions if you don't mind on yours.

What size is it?
Did you have to cut out much of the existing fire ope?
Is there a back boiler off it?
Does it require a separate flue liner for the chimney?

What price for the stove and associated flue

Thanks

paddy147 · 22-11-2010 11:35PM

yop wrote: »

Paddy a few questions if you don't mind on yours.

What size is it?
Did you have to cut out much of the existing fire ope?
Is there a back boiler off it?
Does it require a separate flue liner for the chimney?

What price for the stove and associated flue

Thanks

Yop....a few answers for you.:)

Stovax Riva 66 multi fuel inset stove.

Size wize.....742mm x 599mm x 395mm (width x height x depth).
You can put turf/logs into it up to a length of 450mm.

Yes,the whole bottom of the fireplace had to be cut out and then widened,then built back up off the ground to accomodate the inset stove.

Riva 66 does not come with a back boiler.

Reccommended by fireplace shop and others to install a stainless twin walled flexi flue liner down the existng chimney,so thats what I did.

The Riva 66,flue liner and instalation was just over 2000 euro.I got the flue liner alot cheaper by shopping around for it myself and not just letting the fireplace company supply it to me.

Hope this helps a bit.:)

yop · 22-11-2010 11:37PM

Gentleman Paddy, all the details I needed.
Food for thought anyway!

opm · 25-11-2010 11:46AM

positron wrote: »

After many more days of googling, I might have found a stove that actually fits my fire (pictures posted earlier in the thread).

It's called "Behemia 30" - any experience with this particular one?

http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/wood_burning_stoves/Bohemia-30-multifuel-stove.html

Thanks a mill!

PS: Actually I have found a few. Aarrow Acord 5, Mendip, Villager Puffin, Stovax Stockton 3 etc - there's a good few that fits my current fireplace opening of 395mm width, 560 or so height.

positron - I'm looking to do the same thing, leave my existing surround untouched, remove the fireback, prep the walls and insert the smallest stove I can find.

In terms of small stoves, I've found two likely candidates from Arada - the Aarrow Acorn 4 (458h x 355w), and the Villager Puffin (525h x 337w).

The Puffin is leading the race as it is taller (despite the pictures), and so will look more "fitted" in my fireplace, and it is narrower offering more clearance. It costs £520 stg in Newry or €875 in Dublin (!), has a 5" flu collar, and 4kW peak output, which is more than sufficient for the size and shape of my living room.

I'm off now to check the sizes of the other small stoves you found. Ta!

positron · 25-11-2010 12:31PM

opm, from what rpmcs said earlier on this thread, I think the general wisdom is that if you put normal stoves into small openings (like what you or I will have if I were to remove the fireback and brick up the walls into a square), it wouldn't be very efficient as there won't be much space around the stove for air to heat up and to flow into the room. He was suggesting inset stoves that uses convection (double box and channels to the front of the stove to let hot air into the room). Will keep an eye on to see what your research brings up..

yabadabado · 28-11-2010 02:48AM

I am in the process of changing my open fire and putting in a insert.I have a fireplace like the one pictured but with dark granite hearth and I have the same problem were I need to remove the inner part of the fireplace,tiles and cast iron.

Im going to do what sooty_Soup has shown and im wondering what this material is?

inset trim.jpg

I was thinking about putting granite in to match the hearth .What other materials have people used/would recommend?

BTW this thread has been a wonderful help.

piskins72 · 08-01-2011 12:52AM

Hi, just came across this thread and have a question, can any one tell me if these inset stoves are suitable for a fireplace that already has a firefront installed? don't know if any one remembers these things, http://www.donedeal.co.uk/donedeal/classifieds/viewFullPhoto.jsp?cid=4781328&ad=1761002

the fireplace also has a back boiler installed so I am wondering if this would be possible because of that?

sooty_soupy · 08-01-2011 11:26AM

skigolf wrote: »

Sorry to intrude into this interesting debate re insert stoves...

But can I just say, that in the south of Ireland anyway, the amount of misinformation and bad advice out there is seriously alarming.

I have concerns about my recent stove installation and I hope some of you better qualified people can give me some advice. I initially assumed that the 'experts' I employed knew what they were doing, my installation went as follows, as far as I could see...

A nice granite panel with a hole in it was used to cover up the existing fireplace. A 45 deg connection bend was inserted into the hole in the granite (it definitely did not extend longer than a 9"/12" on the chimney side of the panel - no register plate etc.), then the 45 deg bend connection was connected to the rear outlet of the appliance.

The couple of times we lit the stove there was no heat output...

Called the fitter, said we needed the chimney lined, fair enough, tried to get the 6" chimney liner down the chimney - wouldn't fit due to chimney bends. He suggested using a 5" liner and connecting to 6" outlet using a flue narrowing connection - I asked was it ok to reduce the diameter - pressure drops - possibly lower dew point temp, condensation etc. He said it was fine, he'd done it before...

Following my own research, looking at the buildings regs etc., the regs say that the flue diameter should not be smaller than the appliance outlet.

So, two major concerns (1) the possibly incorrect connection to the stove outlet and (2) the problem with reducing the CSA of the flue.
What should I do - help?

The fact he has done it before would be of grave concern to be blunt, and from your interpretation of the building regulations you are quite right that this is in fact an incorrect and quite frankly dangerous installation. My thought would be to tell him to come and take everything out and either start again, or give you a full refund or you are taking legal action.

Am I right in thinking that when you say they have used 45 degree bends, you actually mean they have used 90 degree bends, which would take the flue on a horizontal plain to another 90 degree bend. If they had used 45 degree bends then the flue should be going through the stone backdrop at an upward angle. If it is horizontal, the maximum you can travel at this angle is 6".

Either way, the fact that soot could have accumulated behind this panel before the liner was attempted would be consideredd a fire hazard, and even more worryingly is their blatant disregard to manufacuturers and building controls rules of NEVER reducing the diameter of the flue. My advice would be to tell them you have been told it is dangerous and have been told not to use it under any circumstances until the thing has been installed properly.

Hope this helps

sooty_soupy · 08-01-2011 11:28AM

piskins72 wrote: »

Hi, just came across this thread and have a question, can any one tell me if these inset stoves are suitable for a fireplace that already has a firefront installed? don't know if any one remembers these things, http://www.donedeal.co.uk/donedeal/classifieds/viewFullPhoto.jsp?cid=4781328&ad=1761002

the fireplace also has a back boiler installed so I am wondering if this would be possible because of that?

Your fire front would need to be removed, and so would the boiler to fit most inset stoves, as the very nature of a true inset is that the body slides into the opening, but allows a convection current to bring the heat into the room. Have a look at this link to see what I mean
http://www.countydownstovesandflues.co.uk/images/stories/Vision%20inset%20fact%20sheet.pdf

Hope this helps

Inset Stove

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