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The self-flagellation of the Irish

  • 09-11-2010 02:11PM
    #1
    steve9859
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭


    Why is it that the Irish feel that they have to beat themselves up? Irish poets have even commented on this character trait. There are 152 (and counting) posts on Morgan Kelly's article yesterday (which I think served no purpose other than to promote Morgan Kelly) and none on todays Irish independent lead ("Irish Economy Still has a Healthy Pulse).

    The talk show hosts with their personal downbeat and sensationalist views dominate the airwaves. In contrast the UK drivetime radio chat shows such as on 5-Live have balanced commentary, dont read out ranting listener texts, and do not focus on the personal views of the presenter (I am talking mainstream stations here, not some small off the wall station).

    I have stopped buying the Irish papers due to what appears to me to be their ongoing aim to outdo each other in sensationalism and focus only on the bad (with rare exceptions such as in the Indo today, which I just happened to pick up in a coffee shop).

    We all know the story. Repeating it ad-nauseam just depresses the country. And yet we seem to want it!! It amazes me that almost any positive, or even just measured, comment on boards.ie is shot down with almost no consideration

    I have just spent the last few months between the UK and the US. Both countries have their troubles. The UK budget was almost as savage as the Irish one will be. And yet the prevailing mood is one of "lets get oursleves out of this" and they generally look for the good. The Irish mood is one of an insatiable appetite for bad news.

    It is that attitude that makes me want to leave this country. Not the economics.

    There are those that will immediately slag me, and fall back on the old argument that "it is in the public interest" that the bad news gets reported. But over and over again??? There is a line that everyone who has influence should be cognisant of: that between informing the public and being responsible.

    Morgan Kelly in my view crossed that line. Smashed it into pieces even. AND WE LOVED IT!!


Comments

  • #2
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Unreal amount of it - it's just as annoying as bigging us up and going on about how brilliant we are. For some, it might seem like an enlightened way of thinking perhaps?


  • #3
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    steve9859 wrote: »
    It is that attitude that makes me want to leave this country.

    If the amount of people that threaten to leave the country on AH actually did go, we'd have a population in the hundreds.


  • #4
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    steve9859 wrote: »
    It is that attitude that makes me want to leave this country.
    Ironically, that's one of the lines the self flagellators use often. :pac:


  • #5
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    steve9859 wrote: »
    Why is it that the Irish feel that they have to beat themselves up? Irish poets have even commented on this character trait. There are 152 (and counting) posts on Morgan Kelly's article yesterday (which I think served no purpose other than to promote Morgan Kelly) and none on todays Irish independent lead ("Irish Economy Still has a Healthy Pulse).

    Ireland is a famine or feast country.
    You could make the same argument about all the articles on property during the boom and how no one read the one or two article talking the boom down.
    We are in the famine period at present, so the media feeds us poverty porn rather than property porn.


  • #6
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,967 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    I used to download the Liveline podcasts. Lots of different topics
    You'd want to kill yourself after listening to some. Such misery and self pity

    Over one and half million people out working. Mortgage rates are low. Rents have collapsed.

    Don't tell me the days when I viewed flats with a queue of 10 other people were the good old days. And it wasn't that many years ago either


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  • #7
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,566 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    I think most countries do the same to be honest.

    Dara O'Briain's book, tickling the English, starts off on pretty much the same subject.


  • #8
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,372 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    It's in our psyche as someone once commented to me when we Irish are asked "How are you?", a common answer is: "Not too bad".


  • #9
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    Is this about Neil Prenderville again?


  • #10
    Maddison
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,594 ✭✭✭Maddison


    I always thought self flaggellation was masturbation related. Thats why I came on here.

    Doh!


  • #11
    Carlos_Ray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 685 ✭✭✭Carlos_Ray


    Never underestimate the power of positive thinking. If we lived in a society that encouraged positive thinking more people would attempt to create opportunities and we would be in a far greater position to overcome the current crisis.

    In America it is looked upon as a virtue to have tried and failed in a business venture. People that have tried and failed and try again are actively sought out by companies in silicon valley for example. Some companies only hire people who have attempted at least 3 previous projects. In Ireland, all too often, people who try and fail are mocked and ridiculed for having the balls to try something new. This atmospehere is not conducive to recovery.

    Of course bit of realism is necessary, but so is positivity. Why doesn't Boards, which is one of the main communication networks in the country, lead the way in positive thinking? Why doesn't it create a forum dedicated to those who refuse to submit to the hysteria? And forum that discusses positive trends and possible solutions?


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  • #12
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Carlos_Ray wrote: »
    Why doesn't it create a forum dedicated to those who refuse to submit to the hysteria?

    Here....... Sunshine, Lollipops & Rainbows
    For the record, it makes me puke my ring.
    Give me doom any day of the week over that.


  • #13
    Carlos_Ray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 685 ✭✭✭Carlos_Ray


    mikom wrote: »
    Here....... Sunshine, Lollipops & Rainbows
    For the record, it makes me puke my ring.
    Give me doom any day of the week over that.


    Something dedicated to positive thinking in relation to the future of the country would be more useful.


  • #14
    thewing
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 661 ✭✭✭thewing


    I don't think Kelly's article was for the purpose of self-promotion or being overly downbeat.

    He has correctly predicted events in the past with carefully thought-out articles and there is an appetite for the truth amongst the public as to what is going on during the darkest hour since the beginning of the state

    The 'We're ok...ok maybe its not as ok as first thought out.....oh we're really bunched' approach of those in power is leaving the majority think that the worst is yet to come, and it is....

    As for self-flagellation - I totally agree with you. We are completely OTT in this country for being hard on ourselves.We got it wrong, we'll take our medicine learn our lessons and move on. Stop being so down about it....


  • #15
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,967 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    Carlos_Ray wrote: »
    Something dedicated to positive thinking in relation to the future of the country would be more useful.

    We have a motivation and personal development forum.

    No economic plans in there but it's something


  • #16
    Cheap Thrills!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,723 ✭✭✭Cheap Thrills!


    Hey PollyAnna! Git outta here wit yer optimisim, we durnt want yur sort around HERE! :mad:


  • #17
    KrazeeEyezKilla
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 420 ✭✭KrazeeEyezKilla


    I hate endless negativity about Ireland as much as anyone but in this country positivity usually means being told a load of $hite about how if we all stand behind the two Brians everything will be fine, before that it was telling people to kill themselves. More ideas and less FF guff.


  • #18
    PeterIanStaker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭PeterIanStaker


    Its the catholic guilt trip that has been ingrained into the Irish mindset over the centuries. Its not healthy.


  • #19
    gbee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,384 ✭✭✭gbee


    steve9859 wrote: »
    which I just happened to pick up in a coffee shop).

    . The UK budget was almost as savage as the Irish one will be. !!

    Firstly there are over 144,000 of those papers just lying around in coffee shops all over Ireland.

    There is a much bigger population to spread the pain in the UK if our budget is the same as the UK's

    And if the UK just gave us one of their aircraft carriers that they are scrapping, we could sell it an wipe out our National Debt in one stroke.


  • #20
    sron
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 264 ✭✭sron


    Oh bugger off.

    If we had listened to Morgan Kelly's doomsaying years ago we would have avoided this mess. And now that he's been proven right again and again you want to further ignore him?

    I suppose you cheered when the Bert told the naysayers to "commit suicide" too. Delude yourself with the Indo if you please, but don't attack anyone else for grappling with a painful reality brought to us by the illusion of invulnerablility, an illusion sustained by the unfailing positivity of the past few years.


  • #21
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    I think the negativity is just reality, but the OP has a point about a lot of Irish people falling over themselves to go on about how sh1t "we" are.


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  • #22
    scientific1982
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,562 ✭✭✭scientific1982


    Its ok for us to criticize ourselves, but anyone one else had better keep their mouths shut.


  • #23
    Karmafaerie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,871 ✭✭✭Karmafaerie


    God bless the Irish, for we are truely mad.
    For all our wars are happy, and all our songs are sad.


  • #24
    steve9859
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭steve9859


    gbee wrote: »
    Firstly there are over 144,000 of those papers just lying around in coffee shops all over Ireland.

    There is a much bigger population to spread the pain in the UK if our budget is the same as the UK's

    And if the UK just gave us one of their aircraft carriers that they are scrapping, we could sell it an wipe out our National Debt in one stroke.

    Osborne announced £80bn public sector spending cuts. In addition to £11bn wefare cuts in June this year. Part of a total budget deficit of £150bn (11% of GDP, biggest in EU) which has to be eliminted. 500,000 public sector jobs to go. Welfare and public sector hammered. But the sound of the wailing and gnashing of teeth is not nearly as loud over there as it is here.


    And to SRON: Despite your recognition of the 'unfailing positivity' of recent years you are not even prepared to consider that there is an element of 'unfailing negativity' now.


  • #25
    Hazys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,510 ✭✭✭Hazys


    Keep Fear Alive!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBuySDS_w1Y


  • #26
    topper75
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭topper75


    sron wrote: »
    If we had listened to Morgan Kelly's doomsaying years ago we would have avoided this mess. And now that he's been proven right again and again you want to further ignore him?

    My beef with Kelly would be that he was either:
    1. Somehow privy to over-aggressive lending and creative accounting going on in Anglo and kept it to himself
    2. Talking things down for the sake of it, knowing that cyclically he would one day be right and look good
    Whichever of the two was true, I have a problem with him.


  • #27
    scientific1982
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,562 ✭✭✭scientific1982


    steve9859 wrote: »
    Osborne announced £80bn public sector spending cuts. In addition to £11bn wefare cuts in June this year. Part of a total budget deficit of £150bn (11% of GDP, biggest in EU) which has to be eliminted. 500,000 public sector jobs to go. Welfare and public sector hammered. But the sound of the wailing and gnashing of teeth is not nearly as loud over there as it is here.


    And to SRON: Despite your recognition of the 'unfailing positivity' of recent years you are not even prepared to consider that there is an element of 'unfailing negativity' now.
    Yep and the North is in for some serious cuts this year.


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