Teacher murdered on night out...sentences of 5 and 4 years

HarryPotter41 · 08-11-2010 08:42PM

ScienceNerd wrote: »

What is the maximum sentence for manslaughter does anyone know?

Maximum sentence is life.

curlzy · 08-11-2010 08:42PM

Oh sweet Jesus, that's just so depressing :eek::mad::(. Like I know the country is gone to **** but it's things like this that really brings it home just how ****ed this country is. We can't afford to keep the utter scum like this off the streets??? Better for some other poor family to have to bury their loved one in 4/5 years??? It's just so sick.

HarryPotter41 · 08-11-2010 08:43PM

curlzy wrote: »

Oh sweet Jesus, that's just so depressing :eek::mad::(. Like I know the country is gone to **** but it's things like this that really brings it home just how ****ed this country is. We can't afford to keep the utter scum like this off the streets??? Better for some other poor family to have to bury their loved one in 4/5 years??? It's just so sick.

And remember they will probably be good little boys in prison and be out in about 3.

Dr Strange · 08-11-2010 08:44PM

ScienceNerd wrote: »

What is the maximum sentence for manslaughter does anyone know?

Not sure, but this guy got a life sentence for manslaughter last year.

EDIT: HarryPotter41 already said it below.

Rabble Rabble · 08-11-2010 08:44PM

snyper wrote: »

Sack the Judge. Cool.

Then give them life.

Then have the case taken to a higher court and brought back down to the original sentance because the evidance proved manslaughter not Murder.

The law is tested with every case thats taken, these are the parameters he as a judge had to deal with.

It tastes bad, but thats that.

Im angry, but the law and its parameters are the wat they are for a reason, ironically to protect the innocent. As i said its the length of time they get in jail that is ****ty, but that takes law reform. Judge afaik cant do it

Surely people have been given more than 5 years for manslaughter? And this was unprovoked attack. are you sure that 5 years was the maximum for manslaughter?

Rabble Rabble · 08-11-2010 08:47PM

From the INDO:

In 2005, the Court of Criminal Appeal was given a sample of sentences imposed in some 50 manslaughter cases when deciding on sentencing on a case before them. Of the 50 cases, the vast majority, 37, resulted in a sentence of less than 10 years while 13 were given more than 10 years. Of the 37 some 24 were sentenced to less than five years and six were suspended.

Although the maximum sentence that may be handed down for a conviction on a manslaughter charge is life imprisonment, this sentence is normally reserved for the worst variation of that offence and is not easily imposed by a court. Indeed according to case law the court must be satisfied that the offence is the "worst or amongst the worst of its kind" for this to happen.

At the upper end of the manslaughter scale sentencing is likely to be more severe if the court considers the incident to be particularly callous or involving more than one person. At the lower end, where little violence was intended, a light prison, or indeed non-custodial, sentence may be applied.

This involved more than one person ( as perps) and violence was most certainly intended.

My name is URL · 08-11-2010 08:47PM

snyper wrote: »

Sack the Judge. Cool.

Then give them life.

Then have the case taken to a higher court and brought back down to the original sentance because the evidance proved manslaughter not Murder.

The law is tested with every case thats taken, these are the parameters he as a judge had to deal with.

It tastes bad, but thats that.

Im angry, but the law and its parameters are the wat they are for a reason, ironically to protect the innocent. As i said its the length of time they get in jail that is ****ty, but that takes law reform. Judge afaik cant do it

I'm not saying that the sentence should be changed now, there's no point in that. There are serious problems within the judicial system here, the inconsistencies in sentencing being the most obvious. You can say that every case is treated individually and that's fine, but when you look at the bigger picture you realize that the disparity between sentences for similar cases varies more widely in Ireland than elsewhere.

AckwelFoley · 08-11-2010 08:47PM

Rabble Rabble wrote: »

Surely people have been given more than 5 years for manslaughter? And this was unprovoked attack. are you sure that 5 years was the maximum for manslaughter?

No, im not sure.

But the judge isnt the sole dictator of the law. If he gave more or less based on the particulars of the case, he knows that it will be "corrected" on appeal.

He would like to have given them 50 and throw away the key etc, but he knows if he does, based on previous sample cases, that it wont stand

GLaDOS · 08-11-2010 08:51PM

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

Maximum sentence is life.

Preusse wrote: »

Not sure, but this guy got a life sentence for manslaughter last year.

EDIT: HarryPotter41 already said it below.

Well baring that in mind whether it's murder or manslaughter is academic. Sentence passed down is a joke, especially considering their history, and that one was on temporary release and the other on bail

Callan57 · 08-11-2010 08:52PM

snyper wrote: »

Murder is what we would probably call it but the law may not.

After the evidence is heard, manslaughter is what may be decided.

The difference between manslaughter and murder is intent, intent may only be for a few seconds before the crime.

As I understand it they pleaded guilty to manslaughter ... so the evidence was not heard. IMO someone with prior convictions should not under any circumstances be given bail.
:mad:

PanchoVilla · 08-11-2010 08:54PM

Manslaughter in Ireland is punishable with a maximum sentence of life imprisonment or a fine at the discretion of the court or both.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/huge-scope-for-penalty-from-life-in-prison-to-a--simple-fine-1517326.html

It's the Independent but I assume they have that particular information correct. The judge should be sacked for incompetence. I wonder if the family will petition the president to have him/her removed.

Edit: By the way, that kid got 10 years and I believe he had had no prior convictions.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1219/nolans.html

Mister men · 08-11-2010 08:56PM

I've always said and always will say hard time and labour is the only way forward for these kind of crimes. Unless you have a deterent that scares the **** out of these kind of scumbags you will never solve the problem of violent crime.

scientific1982 · 08-11-2010 09:04PM

If something like that happened one of my family members id rather take the law into my own hands. As it stands, id probably get a light sentence anyway.

arse..biscuits · 08-11-2010 09:05PM

If I ran this country I'd reduce the cost of running the prisons by investing in a 6 foot lenght of rope

Son Of A Vidic · 08-11-2010 09:07PM

A) Victim is struck by a punch, falls to the pavement striking his head = Manslaughter, his death was unintentional.

Victim lies unconscious and helpless on the ground, where he is then viciously attacked again. = Murder, the attacker demonstrated clear and obvious willful intent to cause further serious harm to his defencless victim.

Unfortunately, quite often the law and the judiciary dont' do cop on! These scum will serve half their sentence at best. In fact, I often think the bigger your criminal record is, the more rights you seem to have in this country.

Mister men · 08-11-2010 09:18PM

scientific1982 wrote: »

If something like that happened one of my family members id rather take the law into my own hands. As it stands, id probably get a light sentence anyway.

Fella in my neighbourhoods daughter (9 year old) got knocked down by a drunken driver there few years back. The idiot mounted the path and hit her side on leaving her with serious injuries but thankfully alive. She was in and out of the hospital for months in terrible pain. The driver will be in and out of the hospital for the rest of his life because of what the girls auld fella did to him when he caught up with him. I don't blame him one little bit when you see what's going on in the courthouses of our nation.

jackiebaron · 08-11-2010 09:23PM

zerks wrote: »

The human rights advocates would be crying in the streets if they were jailed for life,we should have a 3 Strikes policy in the country for certain crimes and take the scum off the streets.No thought of the victims human rights when he was being kicked to death on the street.:mad:
Something similar happened down my way and nobody was convicted even though the dogs in the street knew who did it and the truth over what happened.

I have to disagree with you on this "3 strikes" policy, zerks. It's a stupid cliched American joke that incarcerates non-violent petty criminals for life for sh!t as pathetic as stealing a pizza. However...I would go so far as to advocate that when you kill someone and you've got over 60 fcukin priors well then 60 strikes and you're WELL AND TRULY OUT would apply. These **** are unrepentant menaces to society and should be looking at no less than a 15 to 20 year stretch.

geespot · 08-11-2010 09:23PM

so the drunk driver hospitalises this young girl then her father hospitalises the driver then his father shoots the girls father then his father shoots his father then his brother shoots his brother will i go on

geespot · 08-11-2010 09:29PM

we could do with alf the number of gardai if we would build a big shed nothing fancy a few sheets of galvanise and electric fencing a drain in the middle to sh1t and piss and a trough to feed at just check the papers its the same people who commit all the crimes week in week out usually while out on bail or on early release.

Gaudizeit · 08-11-2010 09:33PM

It's fairly sickening in this case. One can only hope they get throttled inside, or taken down on their first few steps of freedom. It is manslaughter, but with their previous records it is a terrible call by the judge. These thugs are a threat to society and will probably be out in a few years causing more harm.

x in the city · 08-11-2010 09:34PM

4 and 5 years, lol

what a farce, Ireland is ****ed up totally.

Them little scumbags should be lined up agaisnt a wall with a bag over their head and a nice big SUV should be rammed into them nice and fast.

ytareh · 08-11-2010 09:34PM

Mister men wrote: »

Fella in my neighbourhoods daughter (9 year old) got knocked down by a drunken driver there few years back. The idiot mounted the path and hit her side on leaving her with serious injuries but thankfully alive. She was in and out of the hospital for months in terrible pain. The driver will be in and out of the hospital for the rest of his life because of what the girls auld fella did to him when he caught up with him. I don't blame him one little bit when you see what's going on in the courthouses of our nation.

What happened the girl's father ?

galwayrush · 08-11-2010 09:37PM

Hmm, so they didn't intend to kill him, why did they attack him in such a savage way? Surely that intent alone warranted a more severe sentence.
Some Judges are really stupid, did this one not take into consideration the amount of previous convictions the 2 scumbags had?

Reminds me of another Judge with blood on their hands, the bastard who raped and killed the 17 year old Swiss student in Galway had previous convictions, and had been arrested in connection of the rape of a French student a few days before hand. The Judge in question , despite the Garda's protests allowed the scumbag out on bail, and sadly we know what happened as a result.

Augmerson · 08-11-2010 09:51PM

Life is what they should have gotten. If those things had gotten longer sentences for atleast half of the crimes they committed, they would not have been out on the street killing innocent people. Why did they Judge give such a lenient sentence? Jesus if I had some of those headshop drugs on me and got caught I'd get 8 years outright...WTF?!

enfant terrible · 08-11-2010 09:56PM

snyper wrote: »

Sack the Judge. Cool.

Then give them life.

Then have the case taken to a higher court and brought back down to the original sentance because the evidance proved manslaughter not Murder.

The law is tested with every case thats taken, these are the parameters he as a judge had to deal with.

It tastes bad, but thats that.

Im angry, but the law and its parameters are the wat they are for a reason, ironically to protect the innocent. As i said its the length of time they get in jail that is ****ty, but that takes law reform. Judge afaik cant do it

Sounds like we don't need judges if their hand are completely tied.

Mister men · 08-11-2010 10:01PM

ytareh wrote: »

What happened the girl's father ?

Nowt.

Terry · 08-11-2010 10:06PM

zerks wrote: »

The human rights advocates would be crying in the streets if they were jailed for life,we should have a 3 Strikes policy in the country for certain crimes and take the scum off the streets.No thought of the victims human rights when he was being kicked to death on the street.:mad:
Something similar happened down my way and nobody was convicted even though the dogs in the street knew who did it and the truth over what happened.

They're the real problem when it comes to sentencing criminals in this country.

Merzbow · 08-11-2010 10:12PM

I suppose it is "societys" fault they killed him :rolleyes: Seriously no matter how left-wing or liberal you are, can anyone even remotely justify these sentences

vintac34 · 08-11-2010 11:29PM

What we need in this now bankrupt country is JUSTICE, simple plain justice!!!!
What we get is LAW and greedy overpaid lawyers poncing/performing posing around in wigs and black skirts laden down with books full of stupid precedents using every possible loophole to keep criminals out of jail where they belong...
Huge gravytrain,i.e 13yr tribunal probably with end result as in beef tribunal=nil!
Give more power and make more use of jury based courts and allow them hand down the jail term..Take the power from the doddery old politically appointed leeches and
tell the lawyers to stick their books where the sun never shines....
Give us JUSTICE not bloddy law!!!!

nlgbbbblth · 08-11-2010 11:42PM

I thought it was only middle class / upper class / rich people that got light sentences for manslaughter.

Oh wait....:rolleyes:

Teacher murdered on night out...sentences of 5 and 4 years

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