Teacher murdered on night out...sentences of 5 and 4 years

bigpink

:mad::mad:This made me sick to hear on the news today
http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1108/caseyb.html


If someone could find a link for the news on the RTE player and just look at the scummy,smug heads on the murderers as they leave court so people know how bad justice is in this country

K4t

Kevin Dinan struck Mr Casey in the face and head as he lay unconscious on the ground.

Harry Dinan, who has 64 previous convictions and who was on temporary release from prison at the time of the incident, was given a five-year prison sentence.

Kevin Dinan, who has 17 previous convictions and who was on bail at the time of the offence, was given four years in prison.

Sack the judge tbh.

angelfire9

They were not convicted of murder it was manslaughter

Wibbs

You hear a lot of guff about bad Gardai in this country and IME its mostly untrue, but we hear or complain less about the utterly daft buggers we have as judges. It's not juts one either, it's a lot of them.

bigpink

Its murder.Its nice of you to stick up for the scum

Wibbs

angelfire9 wrote: »

They were not convicted of murder it was manslaughter

So bloody what? They kicked an innocent man to death on the street. 5 years, 4 years? For Gods sake that is utter madness. :mad:

Hazys

No matter how bad the economy is or how bankers/developers raped the country or how corrupt our politicians are...nothing angers me more than hearing of scum getting sentences like that. :mad::mad::mad:

Wolfe Tone

I wouldnt be so quick to blame the Judges tbh, most likely following the letter of th law

zuroph

FFS

the purple tin

Does anyone know the specifics of why they were charged with manslaughter and not murder?

sock puppet

bigpink wrote: »

Its murder.

Except it isn't.

AckwelFoley

Wibbs wrote: »

You hear a lot of guff about bad Gardai in this country and IME its mostly untrue, but we hear or complain less about the utterly daft buggers we have as judges. It's not juts one either, it's a lot of them.

Interpretation of the law.


The Judge can only hand down a certain sentance based on precident.


This was judged as mansalughter based on the evidence.


The problem is not with the Judge, the problem is that our laws needs increased sentances for Manslaughter and murder and other crimes that i can think of.

In the US of A, manslaughter or not, these little turds would never see daylight again

Spudmonkey

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

I wouldnt be so quick to blame the Judges tbh, most likely following the letter of th law

The law is a joke. How the hell are two guys with 64 convictions and 17 convictions even walking the street?

mikemac

bigpink wrote: »

Its murder.Its nice of you to stick up for the scum

Manslaughter, you wouldn't get a murder conviction for this.

BillShorey

My God, how many ****ing convictions must one clock up to be taken off the streets here?

64 previous and he gets 5 years? I hope that judge experiences the horror the people he's letting free on our streets (basically) are inflicting on people. What an utter farce. Those lads deserve chemical castration and to never see freedom again. What the hell is wrong with the judges in this country?

uberwolf

the purple tin wrote: »

Does anyone know the specifics of why they were charged with manslaughter and not murder?

presumably they couldn't prove premeditation. As in that they intended to kill that particular person, and planned their attack with that outcome in mind.

Tech3

Those two convicted are pure scum, have been convicted of other crimes previously. It's a fcuking disgrace theyll be out in a few years and kicking in more people walking the streets of Ennis or wherever. It's makes me sick the way these cnuts get away with this shít.

themandan6611

a shocker and disgracful sentences - they should both have received 15- 20 years.

The law is pants, out-dated, the criminals have all the rights, the judges live in cuckoo world.

This was murder - the man was murdered, fu&ck the actual charge - its a fooking joke & the 2 fuc*ers should burn instead they'll be out in a few years to continue with their reign of crime adn suffering to others :mad:

Pembily

They are scum bags, this is very well know around the area and Brian was kicked and brutally beaten and he couldn't fight back and he wasn't a fighter anyway!!! He was a nice guy and he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time!!!

Ennis is gone so sh!tty and scary lately, pure knacker hole, it is just shocking!!! It was murder as they went out with the intention of causing harm and hurt (the victim didn't matter)- therefore it was MURDER!!!!

So sad, another tragedy of our justice system!!! The judge followed the law - if he had given them longer sentences they would have appealed and used free legal aid to probaly get off scott free :mad::mad:

bigpink

sock puppet wrote: »

Except it isn't.

A man on on night out walking along minding his own business and 2 men attack him...come on like.If it happened to you and me what would our families call it?

drkpower

Manslaughter is essentially unlawful killing without an intention to kill. But it can still attract a life sentence and it beggars belief that these two guys with serious prior convictions, one of whom kicked the guy in the head while unconcious, could have escaped a higher sentence.

jackiebaron

So let me get this straight. A guy from the Congo who claims dole while working gets banged up for 18 months and would have been canned for 36 months (that's THREE YEARS) if he had not been so cooperative. Also I believe he had no priors.
These cnuts have over EIGHTY prior CONVICTIONS between them, they kill a guy for nothing and they get 4 and 5 years?

Fcukin' Banana Republic!

GLaDOS

What is the maximum sentence for manslaughter does anyone know?

CoalBucket

Wibbs wrote: »

You hear a lot of guff about bad Gardai in this country and IME its mostly untrue, but we hear or complain less about the utterly daft buggers we have as judges. It's not juts one either, it's a lot of them.

+ 1. I'd like to add the DPP to that too though. Constantly bargaining with defence lawyers to get a conviction even if it means a lesser charge and sentence. I'm no expert but it just can't be coinsidence.

Cantona's Collars

The human rights advocates would be crying in the streets if they were jailed for life,we should have a 3 Strikes policy in the country for certain crimes and take the scum off the streets.No thought of the victims human rights when he was being kicked to death on the street.:mad:
Something similar happened down my way and nobody was convicted even though the dogs in the street knew who did it and the truth over what happened.

AckwelFoley

BillShorey wrote: »

My God, how many ****ing convictions must one clock up to be taken off the streets here?

64 previous and he gets 5 years? I hope that judge experiences the horror the people he's letting free on our streets (basically) are inflicting on people. What an utter farce. Those lads deserve chemical castration and to never see freedom again. What the hell is wrong with the judges in this country?

The deserve castration, and the jusge and most of it would love to make sure he got it, but he cant order it. We're not in Saudi Arabia (unfortunatley or not)

So making those wishes about the judge is unfair

AckwelFoley

bigpink wrote: »

A man on on night out walking along minding his own business and 2 men attack him...come on like.If it happened to you and me what would our families call it?

Murder is what we would probably call it but the law may not.

After the evidence is heard, manslaughter is what may be decided.

The difference between manslaughter and murder is intent, intent may only be for a few seconds before the crime.

My name is URL

K4t wrote: »

Sack the judge tbh.

+1.. although, afaik there is no framework in place for being able to do so. Judges are appointed by and can only be removed by the President, and she has never stepped in nor is likely to.

I raised this issue on the Politics forum in the past and the only replies were from people stating that the separation of powers is too important to have the pres step in and sort the judicial system out. What a load of schite that is.. if those worried about the separation of powers were on the receiving end of serious crimes they wouldn't be long changing their tune

the purple tin

Is there any way that the victims family could call for some sort of investigation into the short sentences, why was the judge so lenient given their past history etc?

Rabble Rabble

the whole manslaughter - murder debate is pointless. he should get 20 years for manslaughter.

AckwelFoley

My name is URL wrote: »

+1.. although, afaik there is no framework in place for being able to do so. Judges are appointed by and can only be removed by the President, and she has never stepped in nor is likely to.

I raised this issue on the Politics forum in the past and the only replies were from people stating that the separation of powers is too important to have the pres step in and sort the judicial system out. What a load of schite that is.. if those worried about the separation of powers were on the receiving end of serious crimes they wouldn't be long changing their tune

Sack the Judge. Cool.

Then give them life.

Then have the case taken to a higher court and brought back down to the original sentance because the evidance proved manslaughter not Murder.

The law is tested with every case thats taken, these are the parameters he as a judge had to deal with.


It tastes bad, but thats that.

Im angry, but the law and its parameters are the wat they are for a reason, ironically to protect the innocent. As i said its the length of time they get in jail that is ****ty, but that takes law reform. Judge afaik cant do it

HarryPotter41

ScienceNerd wrote: »

What is the maximum sentence for manslaughter does anyone know?

Maximum sentence is life.

curlzy

Oh sweet Jesus, that's just so depressing :eek::mad::(. Like I know the country is gone to **** but it's things like this that really brings it home just how ****ed this country is. We can't afford to keep the utter scum like this off the streets??? Better for some other poor family to have to bury their loved one in 4/5 years??? It's just so sick.

HarryPotter41

curlzy wrote: »

Oh sweet Jesus, that's just so depressing :eek::mad::(. Like I know the country is gone to **** but it's things like this that really brings it home just how ****ed this country is. We can't afford to keep the utter scum like this off the streets??? Better for some other poor family to have to bury their loved one in 4/5 years??? It's just so sick.

And remember they will probably be good little boys in prison and be out in about 3.

Dr Strange

ScienceNerd wrote: »

What is the maximum sentence for manslaughter does anyone know?

Not sure, but this guy got a life sentence for manslaughter last year.

EDIT: HarryPotter41 already said it below.

Rabble Rabble

snyper wrote: »

Sack the Judge. Cool.

Then give them life.

Then have the case taken to a higher court and brought back down to the original sentance because the evidance proved manslaughter not Murder.

The law is tested with every case thats taken, these are the parameters he as a judge had to deal with.


It tastes bad, but thats that.

Im angry, but the law and its parameters are the wat they are for a reason, ironically to protect the innocent. As i said its the length of time they get in jail that is ****ty, but that takes law reform. Judge afaik cant do it

Surely people have been given more than 5 years for manslaughter? And this was unprovoked attack. are you sure that 5 years was the maximum for manslaughter?

Rabble Rabble

From the INDO:

In 2005, the Court of Criminal Appeal was given a sample of sentences imposed in some 50 manslaughter cases when deciding on sentencing on a case before them. Of the 50 cases, the vast majority, 37, resulted in a sentence of less than 10 years while 13 were given more than 10 years. Of the 37 some 24 were sentenced to less than five years and six were suspended.

Although the maximum sentence that may be handed down for a conviction on a manslaughter charge is life imprisonment, this sentence is normally reserved for the worst variation of that offence and is not easily imposed by a court. Indeed according to case law the court must be satisfied that the offence is the "worst or amongst the worst of its kind" for this to happen.

At the upper end of the manslaughter scale sentencing is likely to be more severe if the court considers the incident to be particularly callous or involving more than one person. At the lower end, where little violence was intended, a light prison, or indeed non-custodial, sentence may be applied.

This involved more than one person ( as perps) and violence was most certainly intended.

My name is URL

snyper wrote: »

Sack the Judge. Cool.

Then give them life.

Then have the case taken to a higher court and brought back down to the original sentance because the evidance proved manslaughter not Murder.

The law is tested with every case thats taken, these are the parameters he as a judge had to deal with.


It tastes bad, but thats that.

Im angry, but the law and its parameters are the wat they are for a reason, ironically to protect the innocent. As i said its the length of time they get in jail that is ****ty, but that takes law reform. Judge afaik cant do it

I'm not saying that the sentence should be changed now, there's no point in that. There are serious problems within the judicial system here, the inconsistencies in sentencing being the most obvious. You can say that every case is treated individually and that's fine, but when you look at the bigger picture you realize that the disparity between sentences for similar cases varies more widely in Ireland than elsewhere.

AckwelFoley

Rabble Rabble wrote: »

Surely people have been given more than 5 years for manslaughter? And this was unprovoked attack. are you sure that 5 years was the maximum for manslaughter?

No, im not sure.

But the judge isnt the sole dictator of the law. If he gave more or less based on the particulars of the case, he knows that it will be "corrected" on appeal.

He would like to have given them 50 and throw away the key etc, but he knows if he does, based on previous sample cases, that it wont stand

GLaDOS

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

Maximum sentence is life.

Preusse wrote: »

Not sure, but this guy got a life sentence for manslaughter last year.

EDIT: HarryPotter41 already said it below.

Well baring that in mind whether it's murder or manslaughter is academic. Sentence passed down is a joke, especially considering their history, and that one was on temporary release and the other on bail

Callan57

snyper wrote: »

Murder is what we would probably call it but the law may not.

After the evidence is heard, manslaughter is what may be decided.

The difference between manslaughter and murder is intent, intent may only be for a few seconds before the crime.

As I understand it they pleaded guilty to manslaughter ... so the evidence was not heard. IMO someone with prior convictions should not under any circumstances be given bail.
:mad:

PanchoVilla

Manslaughter in Ireland is punishable with a maximum sentence of life imprisonment or a fine at the discretion of the court or both.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/huge-scope-for-penalty-from-life-in-prison-to-a--simple-fine-1517326.html

It's the Independent but I assume they have that particular information correct. The judge should be sacked for incompetence. I wonder if the family will petition the president to have him/her removed.

Edit: By the way, that kid got 10 years and I believe he had had no prior convictions.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1219/nolans.html

Mister men

I've always said and always will say hard time and labour is the only way forward for these kind of crimes. Unless you have a deterent that scares the **** out of these kind of scumbags you will never solve the problem of violent crime.

scientific1982

If something like that happened one of my family members id rather take the law into my own hands. As it stands, id probably get a light sentence anyway.

arse..biscuits

If I ran this country I'd reduce the cost of running the prisons by investing in a 6 foot lenght of rope

Son Of A Vidic

A) Victim is struck by a punch, falls to the pavement striking his head = Manslaughter, his death was unintentional.

Victim lies unconscious and helpless on the ground, where he is then viciously attacked again. = Murder, the attacker demonstrated clear and obvious willful intent to cause further serious harm to his defencless victim.

Unfortunately, quite often the law and the judiciary dont' do cop on! These scum will serve half their sentence at best. In fact, I often think the bigger your criminal record is, the more rights you seem to have in this country.

Mister men

scientific1982 wrote: »

If something like that happened one of my family members id rather take the law into my own hands. As it stands, id probably get a light sentence anyway.

Fella in my neighbourhoods daughter (9 year old) got knocked down by a drunken driver there few years back. The idiot mounted the path and hit her side on leaving her with serious injuries but thankfully alive. She was in and out of the hospital for months in terrible pain. The driver will be in and out of the hospital for the rest of his life because of what the girls auld fella did to him when he caught up with him. I don't blame him one little bit when you see what's going on in the courthouses of our nation.

jackiebaron

zerks wrote: »

The human rights advocates would be crying in the streets if they were jailed for life,we should have a 3 Strikes policy in the country for certain crimes and take the scum off the streets.No thought of the victims human rights when he was being kicked to death on the street.:mad:
Something similar happened down my way and nobody was convicted even though the dogs in the street knew who did it and the truth over what happened.

I have to disagree with you on this "3 strikes" policy, zerks. It's a stupid cliched American joke that incarcerates non-violent petty criminals for life for sh!t as pathetic as stealing a pizza. However...I would go so far as to advocate that when you kill someone and you've got over 60 fcukin priors well then 60 strikes and you're WELL AND TRULY OUT would apply. These **** are unrepentant menaces to society and should be looking at no less than a 15 to 20 year stretch.

geespot

so the drunk driver hospitalises this young girl then her father hospitalises the driver then his father shoots the girls father then his father shoots his father then his brother shoots his brother will i go on

geespot

we could do with alf the number of gardai if we would build a big shed nothing fancy a few sheets of galvanise and electric fencing a drain in the middle to sh1t and piss and a trough to feed at just check the papers its the same people who commit all the crimes week in week out usually while out on bail or on early release.

Gaudizeit

It's fairly sickening in this case. One can only hope they get throttled inside, or taken down on their first few steps of freedom. It is manslaughter, but with their previous records it is a terrible call by the judge. These thugs are a threat to society and will probably be out in a few years causing more harm.