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New dog laws - tail docking?

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  • 07-11-2010 11:47pm
    #1
    kaiser sauze
    Registered Users Posts: 1,558 ✭✭✭


    OK, lots of hearsay on the street about this one, but I was wondering if the dog laws that were voted in earlier this year had anything to say about tail docking?

    I know that before the law was passed tail docking was still legal here, but has anything changed?

    What are peoples' views on tail docking?


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    #2
    mymo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭mymo


    There is a thread further down about Jack russells and tail docking, why not take a look there, should be all the info you need.
    Here's the link.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056071681


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    #3
    pokertalk
    Registered Users Posts: 806 ✭✭✭pokertalk


    kaiser sauze wrote: »
    OK, lots of hearsay on the street about this one, but I was wondering if the dog laws that were voted in earlier this year had anything to say about tail docking?


    What are peoples' views on tail docking?

    if ya use the search function there was a thread on ear pinning and tail docking was covered in it


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    #4
    Bubs99
    Registered Users Posts: 304 ✭✭Bubs99


    I think docking tails is wrong...whats the big deal about cutting off your pups tail...ooooh, does it make them look nicer? (sarcastic tone).
    I dont know how anyone can do this to tiny pups. 100% wrong and so painful for them...just imagine how they feel.
    Dogs have tails for a reason and they need them to send signals to us humans and to other dogs (body language/animal behaviour) and to feel things.
    Whoever is breeding out there and is considering on docking the litters tails...please dont. Also and thankfully, very few vets do this anymore so dont even try and do it yourselves at home incase of nerve damage and infection.


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    #5
    kaiser sauze
    Registered Users Posts: 1,558 ✭✭✭kaiser sauze


    The other thread did not seem to have any pointers to the new dog laws though, which is a central part of the thread topic.


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    #6
    andreac
    Registered Users Posts: 8,000 ✭✭✭andreac


    It is still legal to dock in Ireland.


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    #7
    pokertalk
    Registered Users Posts: 806 ✭✭✭pokertalk


    andreac wrote: »
    It is still legal to dock in Ireland.
    i would like to dock my dogs tail he is a lab x
    mastiff but it would look a bit mad.plus i love his tail but he is a tail wagging mad thing and he constantly knocks it off walls edges of doors etc and because of it has lumps on it. what do yez think


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    #8
    kaiser sauze
    Registered Users Posts: 1,558 ✭✭✭kaiser sauze


    Bubs99 wrote: »
    I think docking tails is wrong...whats the big deal about cutting off your pups tail...ooooh, does it make them look nicer? (sarcastic tone).
    I dont know how anyone can do this to tiny pups. 100% wrong and so painful for them...just imagine how they feel.
    Dogs have tails for a reason and they need them to send signals to us humans and to other dogs (body language/animal behaviour) and to feel things.
    Whoever is breeding out there and is considering on docking the litters tails...please dont. Also and thankfully, very few vets do this anymore so dont even try and do it yourselves at home incase of nerve damage and infection.

    If done within the first few days, on the 3rd or 4th day preferably, there is little pain as nerve endings are still in development.

    It would be an exceptionally bad dock to have any risk of infection. The mother will keep any wound clean.


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    #9
    kaiser sauze
    Registered Users Posts: 1,558 ✭✭✭kaiser sauze


    pokertalk wrote: »
    i would like to dock my dogs tail he is a lab x
    mastiff but it would look a bit mad.plus i love his tail but he is a tail wagging mad thing and he constantly knocks it off walls edges of doors etc and because of it has lumps on it. what do yez think

    I have to admit that I would find it odd to ever see a docked labrador. My family has had several through the years, none were ever docked.

    If you have decided to dock, maybe shorten it a little rather than a full dock?

    Are Mastiff's tails normally docked?


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    #10
    pokertalk
    Registered Users Posts: 806 ✭✭✭pokertalk


    kaiser sauze wrote: »
    I have to admit that I would find it odd to ever see a docked labrador. My family has had several through the years, none were ever docked.

    If you have decided to dock, maybe shorten it a little rather than a full dock?

    Are Mastiff's tails normally docked?
    the bumps are more half way up so doing the tip would probably make no deference. i would nt care how bad he looks really once he is happy.it does not seem to bother him at the moment but still it could get worse with time


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    #11
    Discodog
    Registered Users Posts: 15,857 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    As posted in the other thread the organisation that represents Vets in Ireland class any docking as mutilation & will impose penalties on any Vet found carrying it out. Docking will become illegal if & when we get an Animal Welfare Bill.

    Whilst docking is not technically illegal one could prosecute on the basis of unnecessary suffering. This normally depends of expert Vet evidence. However the Vets have declared the practice to be cruel & would say so in Court where as the defendant would have problems getting their own Vet to testify.


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    #12
    kaiser sauze
    Registered Users Posts: 1,558 ✭✭✭kaiser sauze


    pokertalk wrote: »
    the bumps are more half way up so doing the tip would probably make no deference. i would nt care how bad he looks really once he is happy.it does not seem to bother him at the moment but still it could get worse with time

    What age is your dog? I am guessing he is an adult/young adult at least?

    If you chose to dock, this would require surgery, and it is surgery that only a Vet could do. I would not do that unless you feel that your dog is suffering.


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    #13
    john t
    Closed Accounts Posts: 295 ✭✭john t


    It is a form of mutilation and is wrong. Dogs have tails for wagging, balance when running and turning .. Dogs with doc`d tails should need vet cert too prove it was done for medical reason not visual reason..


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    #14
    Discodog
    Registered Users Posts: 15,857 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    Mods just a thought but does this need merging.


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    #15
    pokertalk
    Registered Users Posts: 806 ✭✭✭pokertalk


    kaiser sauze wrote: »
    What age is your dog? I am guessing he is an adult/young adult at least?

    If you chose to dock, this would require surgery, and it is surgery that only a Vet could do. I would not do that unless you feel that your dog is suffering.
    he is 2 1/2 .im not going to get it done as he is in no discomfort now with it so there is no point. but in the future it might have to go:eek:


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    #16
    pokertalk
    Registered Users Posts: 806 ✭✭✭pokertalk


    Discodog wrote: »
    Mods just a thought but does this need merging.
    +1


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    #17
    kaiser sauze
    Registered Users Posts: 1,558 ✭✭✭kaiser sauze


    john t wrote: »
    It is a form of mutilation and is wrong. Dogs have tails for wagging, balance when running and turning .. Dogs with doc`d tails should need vet cert too prove it was done for medical reason not visual reason..

    I do not know any Vet that would just dock a tail on an owner's whim.

    As regards the rest of your post, that is your opinion.


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    #18
    Discodog
    Registered Users Posts: 15,857 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    kaiser sauze wrote: »
    I do not know any Vet that would just dock a tail on an owner's whim.

    As regards the rest of your post, that is your opinion.

    It is not just his opinion. If you look on the other thread where this post should probably be you will be able to read the actual guidelines issued to Vets where they refer to docking as unnecessary mutilation.


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    #19
    kaiser sauze
    Registered Users Posts: 1,558 ✭✭✭kaiser sauze


    Discodog wrote: »
    It is not just his opinion. If you look on the other thread where this post should probably be you will be able to read the actual guidelines issued to Vets where they refer to docking as unnecessary mutilation.

    That is veterinary guidelines, not the law.


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    #20
    john t
    Closed Accounts Posts: 295 ✭✭john t


    Yep my opinion, and my opinion is i think/ feel it is wrong. Would`nt alter or change apperance in any shape or form of any of gods creatures...


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    #21
    Discodog
    Registered Users Posts: 15,857 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    kaiser sauze wrote: »
    That is veterinary guidelines, not the law.

    We are going round in Circles & posting on two threads is making it worse. It would be much better to continue on the other thread.

    I have answered you there.


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    #22
    Bubs99
    Registered Users Posts: 304 ✭✭Bubs99


    Tail docking is totally wrong!
    I have seen it being done when I was small and the pups were only days old and screeched in agony when the tails were chopped. It was awful to see, (they were yorkies).
    My dad also has a yorkie and the dog has a full tail, people have often commented on him being a yorkie with a full one but he looks adorable, it suits him and he uses it alot, when hes happy, when he's warning off other dogs, when he's looking at things etc etc. When he's groomed, its all fluffy and trimmed well and he loves to strut his stuff while he walks.


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    #23
    Discodog
    Registered Users Posts: 15,857 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    We've moved to the original thread :D


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    #24
    kaiser sauze
    Registered Users Posts: 1,558 ✭✭✭kaiser sauze


    Bubs99 wrote: »
    Tail docking is totally wrong!
    I have seen it being done when I was small and the pups were only days old and screeched in agony when the tails were chopped. It was awful to see, (they were yorkies).
    My dad also has a yorkie and the dog has a full tail, people have often commented on him being a yorkie with a full one but he looks adorable, it suits him and he uses it alot, when hes happy, when he's warning off other dogs, when he's looking at things etc etc. When he's groomed, its all fluffy and trimmed well and he loves to strut his stuff while he walks.

    The tails were chopped? With a knife or similar??

    Who would dock tails in this way?


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    #25
    Bubs99
    Registered Users Posts: 304 ✭✭Bubs99


    I was only 7 and a we were at a pals farm, the guys dog just had a litter of 4 pups and a friend of his came in with a big knife, like a butchers and chop straight down. It was awful, the pups screeched and moved around and there was a good bit of blood. But apparently, they all went to homes later.
    Ill never forget it...so im against!


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    #26
    kaiser sauze
    Registered Users Posts: 1,558 ✭✭✭kaiser sauze


    Bubs99 wrote: »
    I was only 7 and a we were at a pals farm, the guys dog just had a litter of 4 pups and a friend of his came in with a big knife, like a butchers and chop straight down. It was awful, the pups screeched and moved around and there was a good bit of blood. But apparently, they all went to homes later.
    Ill never forget it...so im against!

    I've never heard of tails being docked in this way, that is terrible.


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    #27
    Bubs99
    Registered Users Posts: 304 ✭✭Bubs99


    it was terrible. You know those knives they use to chop bones, i think the guy used that and they were tiny, they could fit in your palm, yorkie pups.
    im glad my yorkie has his full tail, its gorgeous, reminds me of a fluffy squirrels or a skunks when hes groomed, all trimmed and fluffed up with a brush.
    I think hes proud of it...LOL! You should see the way he struts. So cute so I think it should be illegal...tail docking.
    Ive seen boxers, staffies and greyhounds with full ones and they look lovely.


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    #28
    Shanao
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 919 ✭✭✭Shanao


    I absolutely despise docking!! Working in a vets a few years back, I had to witness what was probably one of the most horrible things I have seen. A man and his son came in with their twelve week old boxer and asked the vet to dock it!! Both the vet and myself asked them repeatedly to reconsider but they insisted on having it done. I watched it being done... the poor little mite screamed its head off when the bone was clipped. I actually felt sick for about a week afterwards. To be perfectly honest, other than medical reasons, I see absolutely no reason to dock. A lot of people have even said to me that seeing dogs like rotties and dobermans with their full tails actually makes the dogs look a lot more approachable. And at least its a lot easier to read their signals.


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    #29
    kaiser sauze
    Registered Users Posts: 1,558 ✭✭✭kaiser sauze


    Shanao wrote: »
    I absolutely despise docking!! Working in a vets a few years back, I had to witness what was probably one of the most horrible things I have seen. A man and his son came in with their twelve week old boxer and asked the vet to dock it!! Both the vet and myself asked them repeatedly to reconsider but they insisted on having it done. I watched it being done... the poor little mite screamed its head off when the bone was clipped. I actually felt sick for about a week afterwards. To be perfectly honest, other than medical reasons, I see absolutely no reason to dock. A lot of people have even said to me that seeing dogs like rotties and dobermans with their full tails actually makes the dogs look a lot more approachable. And at least its a lot easier to read their signals.

    Hang on...

    12 weeks???

    No anaesthetic???

    That Vet should be docked himself. :mad: You worked with a prize lemon there.


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    #30
    lrushe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,710 ✭✭✭lrushe


    john t wrote: »
    Dogs have tails for wagging, balance when running and turning .QUOTE]

    I have a docked dog who does agility, having no tail hasn't hampered her in this field, she's as sure footed as any Boarder Collie. Dogs with docked tails compensate by rearranging their centre of gravity much like a dog who loses a limb.


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    #31
    Discodog
    Registered Users Posts: 15,857 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    lrushe wrote: »
    john t wrote: »
    Dogs have tails for wagging, balance when running and turning .QUOTE]

    I have a docked dog who does agility, having no tail hasn't hampered her in this field, she's as sure footed as any Boarder Collie. Dogs with docked tails compensate by rearranging their centre of gravity much like a dog who loses a limb.

    A dog with three legs will compensate. The following is from Veterinary Ireland:

    "The tail is not a limb but an appendage and is the end part of the spinal column comprising approximately 20 coccygeal vertebrae, muscle, nerves and a blood supply. The muscular structure plays an important role in body shape, function and communication.

    The tail is used as a counterbalance in various locomotory activities: running, walking and squatting to defecate. The tail is used to communicate the mood and attitude of the dog: its emotional state, assertion of social status, acceptance of a subordinate or equal position, or willingness to fight. We also believe that the use of the tail to communicate is essential to a dog’s well being."


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