Student died after heavy drinking session

hondasam · 04-11-2010 09:53PM

Overheal wrote: »

What shouldn't we be discussing exactly? Should the dangers of alcohol be swept under the rug because someone died? Or is that the best time to bring the danger to light?

I suspect the family understands that.

dangers of alcohol ya but a person who died tragically no.

marxcoo · 04-11-2010 09:57PM

hondasam wrote: »

dangers of alcohol ya but a person who died tragically no.

There's a very good chance seeing as there is so much information in the news report that the family gave consent regarding the details being put in the public domain. Probably for the very purpose of highlighting the dangers.

shefra · 04-11-2010 09:57PM

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

At the end of the day will this make any diffetence to anyone with regards to alcohol? This death really was horrible, at least if it was a car crash he would be a statistic. Now all he is is dead. Ya I probably am being far too harsh but as that lad and his family found out, life is harsh.
Im a teen and the way the majority abuse alcohol is just horrible. People getting plastered week after week. But hey, I guess thats the norm. As is drinking pretty much from first year in secondary school.

Apologies for the rant, not that any of you will take any notice of this post.

I so agree with you. The 'norm' is too readily accepted and encouraged in Irish society. Sadly. R.I.P

grrrrrrrrrr · 04-11-2010 09:57PM

HavingCrack wrote: »

But a large enough proportion can. We're all aware that sometimes peope drink over their limits. If you (in general, not your specifically) were clearly as dangerously intoxicated as your man was, it'd be nice to think our friends would call an ambulance rather than stripping us and dumping us in a lift. If his friends had called an ambulance instead of doing what they did he might still be alive today or at least he would have had a better chance.
I had to do this myself for a girl I know on one occasion where pneumonia would have been a significant risk if we'd all just left her "because she drank too much".

And if he hadn't died it would have been just another great story to tell the boys the next morning. As mentioned above they probably had a fair bit of alcohol consumed too.

What connects all of this? Alcohol......

hondasam · 04-11-2010 09:57PM

rebel10 wrote: »

Unfortunately, if stories like this don't get discussed, they are swept under the carpet and very little is learnt from them. I am sure that the Murphy family are greiving more than anyone of us can even imagine, but i am also sure that they would be keen to never have this happen to another student like it did their son. If lessons can be learnt, i believe, it is worth discussing. Sorry, not being disrespectful.:(

thats ok but if it were my son I would not want it discussed by a group of people who did not know me or him. It could be discussed without ref to him.

rebel10 · 04-11-2010 09:59PM

_LilyRose_ wrote: »

But I get where you're coming from..a lot of it, especially in SPHE classes, is pure bull****. Videos from the 80s about Johnny who 'hung out with the wrong crowd as a teen' and some fake sob story do no good. They should bring actual live people who've real experience and maybe some scars to show for it to scare us.

I don't know what teachers are scared of. I mean, they don't even teach proper sex education...sorry bout this but they're still telling girls of 16 about periods when they should have moved on to contraception and stds two years beforehand...

Its not really down to individual teachers, sorry, its down to the Dept. of Ed who tell the teachers this is exactly what you have to teach the 16yr old. If they say "they need to be told about the menstrual cycle at 16," then that is the teachers obligation. The Dept. are very strict on age appropriateness. It may be suitable to teach some 14 year olds about STD's but not others and so there is a fine line. You can get in serious trouble if you cross it. Generally, the schools do invite people who have had problems with addictions and such totalk to the the students, but once again you have to be careful for a number of reasons. I, as a teacher, couldn't walk down the street, find a reformed alcoholic or a survivor of an accident and ask them to speak to my class.

There needs to be serious reform in our education of these matters. Sex education, drug education, alcohol education, all of them need a complete over-haul.

themandan6611 · 04-11-2010 10:00PM

Princess Peach wrote: »

Imagine how his friends feel

hopefully fu&king terrible - bunch of idiots treating him like that.

seanbmc · 04-11-2010 10:02PM

rebel10 wrote: »

Or if he hadn't drunk that amount of alcohol. All the blame can't be put on the friends. Hardly think he would have been fine.

He died from pnemonia from being left in the lift with no clothes on... among other things. Not saying he would have been fine, but he wouldn't have died that's for sure.

rebel10 · 04-11-2010 10:03PM

hondasam wrote: »

thats ok but if it were my son I would not want it discussed by a group of people who did not know me or him. It could be discussed without ref to him.

I think that is what is happening here. I'm sorry, but i presume the family know it is going to be discussed by people up and down the country who don't know them. Sadly when a story is this shocking it needs to be discussed so it highlights the flaws amongst us. Ignorance and unease when dealing with these issues gets society nowhere.

Diapason · 04-11-2010 10:07PM

seanbmc wrote: »

He died from pnemonia from being left in the lift with no clothes on... among other things. Not saying he would have been fine, but he wouldn't have died that's for sure.

I really don't think that's sure at all. From what I can tell, you don't catch pneumonia from being naked, and you don't catch it from being cold.

mikemac · 04-11-2010 10:08PM

marxcoo wrote: »

There's a very good chance seeing as there is so much information in the news report that the family gave consent regarding the details being put in the public domain. Probably for the very purpose of highlighting the dangers.

Maybe

It all came from an inquest at the coroner's court.
So realy, it's public knowledge.
I wouldn't think a family can demand a coroner and the media not to release information,
RTÉ have it today, it will be in the papers tomorrow

Maybe a question for the legal forum on what information comes out of a coroner court.

Anyway, my sympathies to the family.

_LilyRose_ · 04-11-2010 10:09PM

rebel10 wrote: »

Its not really down to individual teachers, sorry, its down to the Dept. of Ed who tell the teachers this is exactly what you have to teach the 16yr old. If they say "they need to be told about the menstrual cycle at 16," then that is the teachers obligation. The Dept. are very strict on age appropriateness. It may be suitable to teach some 14 year olds about STD's but not others and so there is a fine line. You can get in serious trouble if you cross it. Generally, the schools do invite people who have had problems with addictions and such totalk to the the students, but once again you have to be careful for a number of reasons. I, as a teacher, couldn't walk down the street, find a reformed alcoholic or a survivor of an accident and ask them to speak to my class.

There needs to be serious reform in our education of these matters. Sex education, drug education, alcohol education, all of them need a complete over-haul.

Fair enough..and agreed.

shefra · 04-11-2010 10:09PM

_LilyRose_ wrote: »

I didn't mean in school there's this special drugs awareness course and the people who teach it have to do a course and everything..

But I get where you're coming from..a lot of it, especially in SPHE classes, is pure bull****. Videos from the 80s about Johnny who 'hung out with the wrong crowd as a teen' and some fake sob story do no good. They should bring actual live people who've real experience and maybe some scars to show for it to scare us.

I don't know what teachers are scared of. I mean, they don't even teach proper sex education...sorry bout this but they're still telling girls of 16 about periods when they should have moved on to contraception and stds two years beforehand..

It's the responsibility of adults to tell kids about these things. Would they rather 12-yr-olds to learn about life the hard way, through the rape and murder of a schoolfriend? or the drug overdose of a sibling? or the death of a group of locals in a drink-driving accident?

The sad thing is, the death of this poor man will be old news in a matter of days, and very few will learn from his death.

Agree and yet again the most fundamental basics for young people are totally denied. Run with the pack or be the odd one out. Sadly that is the generally accepted attitude. Better the 'odd one out' than running with the pack.

04-11-2010 10:11PM

seanbmc wrote: »

He died from pnemonia from being left in the lift with no clothes on... among other things. Not saying he would have been fine, but he wouldn't have died that's for sure.

It sounds like aspiration pneumonia to me, ie inhalation of gastric contents (vomit). The low pH of the gastric juices can severely damage the bronchioles, and there can also be a secondary bacterial infection. Becoming hypothermic due to being left in the lift with no clothes on is very unlikely to have been a factor, although it may have been when he was unsupervised in the lift that he aspirated.

mikemac · 04-11-2010 10:17PM

Good info there James, thanks for posting

_LilyRose_ · 04-11-2010 10:18PM

Deleted User wrote: »

It sounds like aspiration pneumonia to me, ie inhalation of gastric contents (vomit). The low pH of the gastric juices can severely damage the bronchioles, and there can also be a secondary bacterial infection. Becoming hypothermic due to being left in the lift with no clothes on is very unlikely to have been a factor, although it may have been when he was unsupervised in the lift that he aspirated.

It's just so sad that someone would willing put themselves in this state. I know some of ye are going to quote this and be all, 'he hardly wanted to be naked in a lift and die from choking on vomit' or whatever, but it was him who decided to go drinking, and him who kept going when his friends told him to.

The attitude towards drink in this country is disgusting. 14-yr-olds shouldn't be able to chat about 'last weekend's session' but some do, and it only gets worse at 16, 17...is something like this a possibility for many college students now?

Overheal · 04-11-2010 10:18PM

hondasam wrote: »

thats ok but if it were my son I would not want it discussed by a group of people who did not know me or him. It could be discussed without ref to him.

On the contrary, I've seen many posts on this website made be grieved family members who would rather honor their loved ones by highlighting the dangers by exemplifying their deaths. I remember being particularly moved when someone wrote about the death of their brother in the motors forum.

hondasam · 04-11-2010 10:18PM

rebel10 wrote: »

I think that is what is happening here. I'm sorry, but i presume the family know it is going to be discussed by people up and down the country who don't know them. Sadly when a story is this shocking it needs to be discussed so it highlights the flaws amongst us. Ignorance and unease when dealing with these issues gets society nowhere.

There is a difference between discussing the dangers of alcohol and discussing someone's son.

mardybumbum · 04-11-2010 10:19PM

seanbmc wrote: »

He died from pnemonia from being left in the lift with no clothes on... among other things. Not saying he would have been fine, but he wouldn't have died that's for sure.

As mentioned above, this is very unlikely to be the cause.
It was most likely an aspiration pneumonia, nothing at all to do with the way his "friends" treated him but rather an unfortunate incident.

Sad news.

Overheal · 04-11-2010 10:19PM

hondasam wrote: »

There is a difference between discussing the dangers of alcohol and discussing someone's son.

Only until it becomes someone else's son. And then another. And another.

pipelaser · 04-11-2010 10:26PM

It just said on the news that he was admitted to hospital with 5 times the legal drink drive limit.

Had to be more than that surely!

hondasam · 04-11-2010 10:28PM

Overheal wrote: »

On the contrary, I've seen many posts on this website made be grieved family members who would rather honor their loved ones by highlighting the dangers by exemplifying their deaths. I remember being particularly moved when someone wrote about the death of their brother in the motors forum.

I seen that myself and if the OP is a family member then fair enough.

dougal-maguire · 04-11-2010 10:34PM

pipelaser wrote: »

It just said on the news that he was admitted to hospital with 5 times the legal drink drive limit.

Had to be more than that surely!

doubt it,was reading a bit bout the drummer from stereophonics,who died in a similar way,and he was 5 times over the limit.a pint might put you over the limit,but it might take 3+ pints to be twice over the limit,not sure how it works.

enda1 · 04-11-2010 10:35PM

Unlucky kid to have died from the booze all the same. I know myself it would be up all over the place whenever I go well past my limit.

I wouldn't blame his friends too much myself. They were just taking the piss. But at least they tried to save him by calling the services when they noticed the problem might be more serious than just a bit of drunkenness. Unfortunately their actions were too little too late.

x in the city · 04-11-2010 10:40PM

Saila wrote: »

but most courses are only 3 years long

not everyone does arts..:rolleyes:

TequilaMockingBird · 04-11-2010 11:52PM

When I was about 13/14 a teacher gave me a copy of "Go Ask Alice" - it scared the sh*te out of me and I have never touched drugs (I'm hitting 40).

I wish I had read one about alcohol as well. My daughter will be reading Go Ask Alice and Gary Murphys story. Soon.

RIP young man.

Go Ask Alice http://www.amazon.com/Go-Ask-Alice/dp/0689817851

PeakOutput · 05-11-2010 12:04AM

TequilaMockingBird wrote: »

When I was about 13/14 a teacher gave me a copy of "Go Ask Alice" - it scared the sh*te out of me and I have never touched drugs (I'm hitting 40).

I wish I had read one about alcohol as well. My daughter will be reading Go Ask Alice and Gary Murphys story. Soon.

RIP young man.

Go Ask Alice http://www.amazon.com/Go-Ask-Alice/dp/0689817851

i strongly recomend not doing this, your daughter is a totally different generation to you and will more then likely not have the same reaction you did to this sort of thing(the poor guys story fair enough but the book is a bad idea imo)

what happens if you give her the book and she thinks of well thats terrible ill never do that it will ruin my life

then she is out with friends and sees someone smoking a joint and realises the next day that it didnt ruin their life. maybe she will try it and when she realises you lied about its affects she is going to wonder what else you lied about

the gods honest truth is all that is necessary and that is not 'if you do drugs your life will be ruined'. i reckon tell them the facts be honest dont be sensationalist and let them make their own informed choice and you will always be pleasantly suprised by the choices they make

but then i have no kids i only base my opinion on seeing friends raise theirs and the different choices they make and the affects it has on their kids

Yo Buddy. You still alive? · 05-11-2010 12:09AM

Alcohol is a disease in ireland.

Raise the age to 21 for drinking and smoking says me.

Overheal · 05-11-2010 12:09AM

not to go on a tangent but I gave up the smoke not when I read some book but when I read my own words. I decided (sober) that when I was stoned I'd start writing down (actually typed) stray thoughts and ideas I had while I was stoned. The result when read back when I was sober again was a completely dysfunctional mess of words and phrases and metaphors. Despite feeling more intelligent when stoned, the evidence in the cold light of day showed otherwise.

I'd suggest if you're going to try and quit something, write your own journal, don't simply rely on one other person's account.

Dudess · 05-11-2010 12:12AM

Go Ask Alice is supposed to be a fabrication - written by some teacher...

PanchoVilla wrote: »

I personally think there was a lot more to that story than some guy taking a few mushrooms. I've know lots of people that have been out of their head on mushrooms and not one ever thought they could fly. That doesn't even happen with LSD. The only drug I know of that would have that effect is PCP and that's not particularly popular is this country.

That LSD/magic mushroom thing story seems everywhere - urban legend I'd bet.

jackiebaron wrote: »

Ah, here we go....."probably", "I bet", yada yada.
People have died because they can't break down a double brandy, OK, Quincy?
Girls have gone into diabetic comas after their first Bacardi Breezer.
People's livers have shutdown and they've died after ONE ecstasy tablet.

People die of SHOCK....no alcohol involved.

I'm not a pathologist like you but I can say with a certain degree of confidence that the amount of alcohol he flooded his body with, combined with falling onto tables (concussion), combined with being stripped naked and left in a lift had something to do with his demise and I doubt that them not putting him in a "correct" sleeping position was the reason for his death.

Why the need for the aggressive "Quincy" and "pathologist" comments? And being in the wrong sleeping position DOES cause death due to choking on vomit. I knew a man to whom it happened. Who do you know who died after taking one ecstasy tablet, or of shock alone? I think Minidazzler's point is very valid and not deserving of an attack...

Pneumonia due to vomit on the lung as JamesL85 mentioned earlier (and he seems to be very much in the know) also makes sense.

Student died after heavy drinking session

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