Students attack Leinster house with Mars Bars

steddyeddy · 04-11-2010 04:29PM

Tigger wrote: »

you don't think it looks fun?

no if I did I would get help and seriously think about not having kids

Tigger · 04-11-2010 04:32PM

ok forget i said anything

MagicSean · 04-11-2010 04:34PM

df1985 wrote: »

How is sitting on the ground a riot situation? Sitting on the ground they are practically defenseless being hit by the guards, and about a minute and a half in, the guards drag someone away further antagonising the situation.Let them sit there, a few hours theyll get bored and go home.

Im not a student, but at least one group in this country finally is willing to step up and do something. The rest of us sit in pubs moaning about it. Ive a feeling if its the teachers and nurses sitting on the ground in forthcoming weeks the guards wont swing so easily.

They were in the same group that was throwing the missiles. They were shielding them. By law this makes them a part of the riot.

Lets just set out exactly what happened as per the videos

1 Large group of 30000+ students march peacefully
2 Aproximately 1000 "students" break off and attack a government building
3 Aproximately 50 enter the building illegally and occupy it refusing to leave
4 Gardaí block entrance to Dept of Finance. Objects and abuse thrown at Gardaí and a number of attempts made to force through their line (This is most likely were the 3 Gardaí were injured)
5 Gardaí remove the protesters one by one from Dept of Finance. Some protesters injured.
6. Gardaí maintain line and come under further attack
7 Garda vans come in from the left and block street.
8 Public order unit with shields move in to take up position in front of uniformed Gardaí.
9. Gardaí, still under sustained attack, forcefully push back protesters. A number of protesters sit on the ground in an attempt to claim innocence. Some are dragged behind the Garda line and others are struck on the legs with batons.
10. Mounted unit and dog unit move into newly created space to reinforce public order unit.

To me this appeared to be a fantastic operation by the Gardaí. They were well prepared and organised and performed excellently. Very much improved since the Orang Order riots.

steddyeddy · 04-11-2010 04:35PM

Tigger wrote: »

ok forget i said anything

lol ok it does look a bit fun but I didnt see the gaurds cracking skulls I saw one gaurd pulling some students hair!

Tigger · 04-11-2010 04:38PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

lol ok it does look a bit fun but I didnt see the gaurds cracking skulls I saw one gaurd pulling some students hair!

lol hair pulling

in fairness they should be given pepper spray like the eru have that would sort it
spray one sitter and the rest would leg it

Doctor_Socks · 04-11-2010 05:30PM

k_mac wrote: »

They were in the same group that was throwing the missiles. They were shielding them. By law this makes them a part of the riot.

Lets just set out exactly what happened as per the videos

1 Large group of 30000+ students march peacefully
2 Aproximately 1000 "students" break off and attack a government building
3 Aproximately 50 enter the building illegally and occupy it refusing to leave
4 Gardaí block entrance to Dept of Finance. Objects and abuse thrown at Gardaí and a number of attempts made to force through their line (This is most likely were the 3 Gardaí were injured)
5 Gardaí remove the protesters one by one from Dept of Finance. Some protesters injured.
6. Gardaí maintain line and come under further attack
7 Garda vans come in from the left and block street.
8 Public order unit with shields move in to take up position in front of uniformed Gardaí.
9. Gardaí, still under sustained attack, forcefully push back protesters. A number of protesters sit on the ground in an attempt to claim innocence. Some are dragged behind the Garda line and others are struck on the legs with batons.
10. Mounted unit and dog unit move into newly created space to reinforce public order unit.

To me this appeared to be a fantastic operation by the Gardaí. They were well prepared and organised and performed excellently. Very much improved since the Orang Order riots.

That sums it up perfectly k_mac! The students that said they were 'peacefully' sitting down are a bunch of idiots, if they join a mob throwing missiles at the gardai who are doing there best to maintain public order and prevent large scale damage to a government building of course they are going to be associated with it.

In my opinion the guards handled the situation as best they could by taking some people from the crowd and bringing them through the garda wall to handle them.

steddyeddy · 04-11-2010 05:38PM

Doctor_Socks wrote: »

That sums it up perfectly k_mac! The students that said they were 'peacefully' sitting down are a bunch of idiots, if they join a mob throwing missiles at the gardai who are doing there best to maintain public order and prevent large scale damage to a government building of course they are going to be associated with it.

In my opinion the guards handled the situation as best they could by taking some people from the crowd and bringing them through the garda wall to handle them.

If it wasnt for your college earned docterate youd be just socks!

LookingFor · 04-11-2010 06:52PM

I can understand removing people who were sitting down to obstruct, but yanking people by the hair? That's bollocks. Some of the stuff I'm seeing in the vids of this was unnecessary. I think some guards have a thing for students, maybe they're the kind who dropped out of college and the gardai was their fallback.

iamstop · 04-11-2010 07:02PM

Try to watch this an not feel the garda over reacted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPnoAY1wXfI

mikedragon32 · 04-11-2010 07:08PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

If it wasnt for your college earned docterate youd be just socks!

That's MISTER Socks to you.

(Well, if he wasn't a doctor, that is)

FlutterinBantam · 04-11-2010 07:10PM

I watched and I feel the Gardai acted very appropriately.

LookingFor · 04-11-2010 07:15PM

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

I watched and I feel the Gardai acted very appropriately.

Mixed.

They were harassing some people who weren't even involved, all the way up baggot street and steven's green.

Some of the low level interaction also seemed to be overdoing it. Like as I mentioned in particular, seeing one garda grab someone, then change his mind, and grab them by the hair to pull the student out. He already had a fine hold of him, the hair-grab was simply maliciously done after he noticed the guy had long hair. That's not professional.

K-9 · 04-11-2010 07:18PM

iamstop wrote: »

Try to watch this an not feel the garda over reacted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPnoAY1wXfI

I'd say the some protesters over reacted.

WolfForager · 04-11-2010 07:33PM

iamstop wrote: »

Try to watch this an not feel the garda over reacted:

Quite a well executed plan imo. Only think i disagree with is just beating the **** out of guys sitting on the ground and charging the horses into the crowd.

prinz · 04-11-2010 07:38PM

WolfForager wrote: »

Quite a well executed plan imo. Only think i disagree with is just beating the **** out of guys sitting on the ground and charging the horses into the crowd.

You mean they should have just stood there and let themselves and their horses be subjected to having things thrown at them rather than push the crowd back?

WolfForager · 04-11-2010 07:40PM

I'm talking about the charge near the end of the video.The one at the start was pretty much expected.

talla10 · 04-11-2010 07:47PM

K-9 wrote: »

I'd say the some protesters over reacted.

+ 1

There has been many a peaceful protest in this country that went off without a problem. Some minority of students lost the head and tried to cause trouble like throwing objects at gardai and their mounts and most if not all student union's have spoken out against those who tried to have a sit in and said these students acted outside the remit of the peaceful march

prinz · 04-11-2010 07:52PM

WolfForager wrote: »

I'm talking about the charge near the end of the video.The one at the start was pretty much expected.

They were driving them up the street. You can pretty sure they scattered fast when the horses made a bit of a charge at no one in particular which allowed the gardaí on foot move up quickly behind, and the vans behind that.

WolfForager · 04-11-2010 07:57PM

prinz wrote: »

They were driving them up the street. You can pretty sure they scattered fast when the horses made a bit of a charge at no one in particular which allowed the gardaí on foot move up quickly behind, and the vans behind that.

Charging horses is still unacceptable in my eyes.The riot squad was doing a good enough job by themselves.

cedan · 04-11-2010 08:06PM

Ive a question after watching that video. What were the guards trying to achieve?

From what ive seen so far in the vid(taking ages to load) the students seem to be pretty rowdy and roaring abuse at the guards etc.

So what happened? Did the guards try to take control of a situation that they feared could develop before it developed, or did the students overstep their boundaries and force the guards to act in this way.

prinz · 04-11-2010 08:09PM

cedan wrote: »

So what happened? Did the guards try to take control of a situation that they feared could develop before it developed, or did the students overstep their boundaries and force the guards to act in this way.

Both, added of course to protecting public and private property, keeping the streets clear etc.

FlutterinBantam · 04-11-2010 08:11PM

I've another question, why is this forum being hi-jacked to promulgate an obviously orchestrated effort to portray the Gardaí involved in yesterdays protest as thugs.

There were only one set of thugs.

TouchingVirus · 04-11-2010 08:23PM

Because we expect more from the Gardai, not from the anarchists?

I expect the Gardai not to batter innocents anyways, and by the looks of it they managed to completely disappoint me

*Edit*: For the record, I'm not anti-Gardai at all. I think the anarchists and those throwing stuff deserved any clunking they got, but a lot of people there didn't and that is where my issue is. There were other means to achieve a crowd dispersal rather than a baton on the head or a shield to the face.

prinz · 04-11-2010 08:24PM

TouchingVirus wrote: »

I expect the Gardai not to batter innocents anyways, and by the looks of it they managed to completely disappoint me

They performed exactly as they should...

TouchingVirus · 04-11-2010 08:27PM

Crowd dispersal needed to be achieved, but it was nowhere near "by any means necessary". That appears to be the approach that was taken though. I'm aware there was a bit of public order training recently, surely there are alternative ways taught to disperse crowds than beating them into submission?

prinz · 04-11-2010 08:30PM

TouchingVirus wrote: »

Crowd dispersal needed to be achieved, but it was nowhere near "by any means necessary". That appears to be the approach that was taken though. I'm aware there was a bit of public order training recently, surely there are alternative ways taught to disperse crowds than beating them into submission?

At what stage in the video was someone beaten into submission?.... and how else would you do it as a matter of interest?

MagicSean · 04-11-2010 08:31PM

TouchingVirus wrote: »

Crowd dispersal needed to be achieved, but it was nowhere near "by any means necessary". That appears to be the approach that was taken though. I'm aware there was a bit of public order training recently, surely there are alternative ways taught to disperse crowds than beating them into submission?

There was no beating to submission. Some people got hit on the legs. That's hardly any means necessary.

Hazys · 04-11-2010 08:36PM

The Gardai acted more than appropriately in fact i thought they were very leniant in comparison to the one experience i had with riot police. I was foolishly at the G8 riots in Edinburgh when i spent the summer of 2nd year in college there.

I just went along to see what the craic is like i presume the majority of students you see in videos being "innocent" bystanders not the guys causing hassle. I considered myself an innocent bystander at the time just watching while all these lads throw missles at the police and made sh1t of the city. If you are in a rowdy violent crowd, you should leave, because you are not innocent, you are part of the problem the Police are trying to disperse.

If a cop had hit me in Edniburgh i would have cried foul play at the cops (i did get pushed by a shield as they rushed the crowd) but looking back, i shouldn't have been there. Myself and the majority of the crowd who were just onlookers are part of the problem because the trouble makers can hide in the crowd, throw missles, run up and kick a police office and run back into the crowd. The Police's goal is to disperse the crowd and they cannot trust anybody in the crowd.

The people 'innocently' sitting on the ground are idiots. What did you expect the gardai to do...stand there patiently while your ghandi-esque protest blocks them from the guys behind firing missles at them, just after people (who you are also probably sitting on the ground) where kicking gardai? The gardai can take no chance that the violence wont escalate, they had to move people along.

Unfortuanately innocent people just going about their business are going to get caught up in it, like the women with her daughter walking down the street...the gardai cannot let her pass, if they let her pass, then the have to let more people pass, suddenly they are exposing themselves with their backs turned.

The people in this video are lucky they were having this 'protest' outside the Irish Dept of Finance not the White House or Downing Street or the French Parliment, etc becuase their would be at least triple the amount of trained riot police and there wouldn't be just 3 arrests and a lot more people would be going home with sore heads.

The student protest would have been successful only for a handful that ruined, now its an embrassment to the student union. 40,000 people walking peacefully around the streets of Dublin causes enough disruption to the city and gathers enough publicity, some thugs ruined it.

Killer Pigeon · 04-11-2010 09:07PM

k_mac wrote: »

They were in the same group that was throwing the missiles. They were shielding them. By law this makes them a part of the riot.

Lets just set out exactly what happened as per the videos

1 Large group of 30000+ students march peacefully
2 Aproximately 1000 "students" break off and attack a government building
3 Aproximately 50 enter the building illegally and occupy it refusing to leave
4 Gardaí block entrance to Dept of Finance. Objects and abuse thrown at Gardaí and a number of attempts made to force through their line (This is most likely were the 3 Gardaí were injured)
5 Gardaí remove the protesters one by one from Dept of Finance. Some protesters injured.
6. Gardaí maintain line and come under further attack
7 Garda vans come in from the left and block street.
8 Public order unit with shields move in to take up position in front of uniformed Gardaí.
9. Gardaí, still under sustained attack, forcefully push back protesters. A number of protesters sit on the ground in an attempt to claim innocence. Some are dragged behind the Garda line and others are struck on the legs with batons.
10. Mounted unit and dog unit move into newly created space to reinforce public order unit.

To me this appeared to be a fantastic operation by the Gardaí. They were well prepared and organised and performed excellently. Very much improved since the Orang Order riots.

They were NOT intentionally sheilding them, a crowd of Sinn Féin knackers decided to come along to the DoF protest and stir more sh*t by throwing stuff. Government buildings were not attached, a DoF spokeswomen said in the Into today that there was no security issue until the Gardaí arrived. You were not there, you didn't see what happened. I know very respectable people who were in the sit down protest that day from places like Trinity and UCD and did not to cause trouble. They were not thugs.

TouchingVirus · 04-11-2010 09:18PM

By submission I meant submitting to the will of the Gardai, that is to say dispersing and not submission as in "I'm bleeding everywhere, please stop, argh".

A poor choice of words lads, I'll admit submission wasn't appropriate.

k_mac: A girl (maybe a guy with long hair) was dragged out by the hair, it's hardly an appropriate way to remove somebody now is it? What about the guy who's pouring blood from his head? Not the fleshy part of his arm or his leg, his head. And the really annoying mobile video with 3gp in the title where some lad is screaming "Sit down" repeatedly shows the public order unit moving in, stamping on people and throwing the baton down in a carefree fashion. That's hardly appropriate in my book.

prinz, is there a law against the use of teargas in this country? If so it should be repealed, and would have been ideal. Instead of looking at bloody heads, noses, pools of blood on the ground, Gardai tally-ho'ing into the crowd like they're in the wild west trampling people a quick burst of tear gas into the crowd outside the Department of Finance would have dispersed the crowd a whole lot quicker and a whole lot less violently than charging them. I hear there's a water cannon in the Public Order unit, where was that and why wasn't it used?

I honestly think the Gardai should be applauded in making the decision to move people away from the Department of Finance, it's a tight road, it was a public safety issue and things were getting really out of hand. It could have been so much worse so the right decision was made. The implementation of it was flawed.

I'm not sure I agree that once they got to the wider part of the road (e.g. 6:00 in that video) there was a need to charge them again. I didn't see any thuggery in that short clip or any video of that time during the protest.

There are quite a few people I know, including a few Gardai, trumpeting the whole "You're lucky this was Ireland and not France" line. It doesn't matter where this happened, it doesn't make it right. If the French would have done more and battered everybody then they're just more wrong than the Gardai, that's all.

Students attack Leinster house with Mars Bars

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