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  • #482
    Grindylow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,919 ✭✭✭Grindylow


    Novella wrote: »
    The tone of this post is completely inappropriate as well, Noel. Everyone has a right to voice their opinion.

    On that note, I'm tired of justifying how I feel in here. It's pointless.

    There is no tone to it. I posted it while contemplating what to watch on TV, hence boredom.


  • #483
    jumpguy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,962 ✭✭✭jumpguy


    Noel2k9 wrote: »
    Aww lord grow up. What has it got to do with you what they said like? How does it offend you? did you mysteriously transform into one of them or something? LIKE SERIOUSLY?
    It might be asked what has it got to do with you as well Noel, and why are you arguing about something that you're not at all involved in?


  • #484
    Insect Overlord
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,033 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    I've made it clear how I feel about this. However, as it is now being discussed with not just one but two Category Moderators I will not be making a "final" decision about this incident yet.

    For now:
    • Attack the post, not the poster.
    • If you've got nothing constructive to say, then don't say anything.
    • The rules apply to everyone, and nobody is above a ban/infraction.
    • Mod decisions are final unless a C-Mod or Admin advises otherwise.
    • This thread is for genuine feedback to improve the whole forum. Keep petty rivalries out of it.
    • If you have an issue with a post, report it and I'll get back to you. Don't just whinge about it and expect a perfect solution to come out of nowhere.
    • If you don't "get" a forum, don't expect it to be changed just for one or two people. Find a forum you do like, and enjoy being a part of that community.

    I'll be back to add more specific feedback some time tomorrow.


  • #485
    Aoibheann
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,383 ✭✭✭Aoibheann


    Novella wrote: »
    On that note, I'm tired of justifying how I feel in here. It's pointless.

    I think it's a case of having to justify oneself if one expects others to justify themselves. If people call others out on things, they should expect the light to be shone right back on them. This isn't specifically directed at you, more a general point to note for everyone.


  • #486
    Pigwidgeon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,590 ✭✭✭Pigwidgeon


    Tbh, I think everything has been blown WAY out of proportion here.

    I agree with Queen of Leon, I didn't notice anything odd about the posts until all this was brought up. I agree with most people when I don't think it was posted maliciously, it was just to get a point across, which it certainly did.

    Can we not just move on from this, is it really such a big deal? It was 11 posts out of I don't know how many in C&H altogether, everyone always says how they like how there's such a good community vibe on here, is there really much point in wrecking the community that's been formed over the last 23 months over something so petty?


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  • #487
    Arcade Panda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭Arcade Panda


    I don't know about the rest of ye but this is the most interesting thing I've read in C&H for months.

    *Sits back with popcorn*

    :rolleyes:


  • #488
    Insect Overlord
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,033 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    Sorry Kate, but too much has been said be some people here to just forget about it and move on. It's being looked into, and a solution/resolution will be found and announced in the next day or two.

    Until then, I'd invite posters to remember that C&H is supposed to be a fun forum. :) Enjoy it!

    @Arcade Panda, go back about 145 posts, and read on from the start of October. This thread has been nuts for a month now!


  • #489
    randylonghorn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,509 ✭✭✭✭randylonghorn


    Bonito wrote: »
    Point to what you like but there's a problem and it's up to the moderators to fix it.
    No, actually, I don't think it is.

    I agree with IO that there is nothing mod-actionable here.

    The fact that, as Knifey pointed out, no-one had reported the relevant posts is a good indication that I'm not the only one who thinks that.

    In my view, this is simply a bit of pish-taking (albeit perhaps with a point) which went a bit OTT and left a few people feeling a bit singled out. As I suggested before, satire is not always the best form of humour among friends, especially in a context which is publicly viewable.

    That said, I can sympathise with both "sides" (for want of a better word, because I hope there really aren't sides here when people calm down a bit, and I don't see why there should be).

    I'm a constant pish-taker, in real life and on Boards, and there are times when I have a smart-alec post all typed out and then I look at it again and think "nah, maybe not" because I realise that someone may take it in a way I don't really intend, so I delete it.

    And hell, maybe there are times when I did post when I should have hit delete instead, but I would hope when that happens that anyone who feels put out would have the gumption and good sense to talk to me quietly about it.

    I consider myself a visitor in this forum, as I left my teens behind a while ago. I pop in partly because I know a few people here, partly because a lot of the younger posters here post in LC as well, and it is both useful and pleasant to be able to interact with them in a context where I do not have to wear a mod hat.

    I have always found it a very pleasant and friendly little forum, and I would hate to see that damaged by what I am increasingly coming to view as over-sensitivity on the one hand and over-stubbornness on the other.

    And yes, it has all been blown out of proportion.

    Sometimes being "right" is not the most important thing, as one or two of the regulars here will have heard me say before IRL.


  • #490
    Midnight_EG
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,775 ✭✭✭Midnight_EG


    Midnight_EG wrote: »
    So what's the story with you three taking the piss out of people chatting in The Den about stuff that happened on a totally different site?

    Since I made this post, not one single person involved has spoken up and explained what was going on, so I'd like to ask why you three haven't replied? Is it simply cowardice coming in, you take the piss out of a few people while the rest of the forum watches, you feel like Kings for a night and go to sleep happy knowing you're going to ignore any backlash? If you made the decision to take part in that piss-taking, why have you now not got the balls to reply to the thread, explain your actions and maybe apologise to anybody it may have hurt or made felt shit about themselves? Did you maybe think of what was going to happen once people read your little joke, did you maybe think people would hold you in high regard and bow beneath your feet, or had you maybe considered the fact that some people will now forever look upon you as cowards who can't justify their actions based on their own opinions.

    I for one know I'll refrain from posting here after this little debacle blows over.

    I ask you to respond, but in your words, not these words of people that have spoken between my quoted post and this post.


  • #491
    Insect Overlord
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,033 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    This whole thing has been blown way out of proportion. Throwing around hyperbolic language and calling people cowards is not going to strengthen your cause. I'd ask you to consider toning down your post and to reconsider what you are saying here. It's already overly-dramatic.


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  • #492
    Midnight_EG
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,775 ✭✭✭Midnight_EG


    Insect Overlord wrote: »
    This whole thing has been blown way out of proportion. Throwing around hyperbolic language and calling people cowards is not going to strengthen you cause. I'd ask you to consider toning down your post and to reconsider what you are saying here. It's already overly-dramatic.
    I stand by absolutely everything I've said, I have absolutely no respect for those involved that haven't spoken up.

    Also, and this is nothing to do you as a person, but I don't think it fair that you, as a friend of those involved, can say such things.


    I expect a C-Mod or an Admin to reply as being friends with someone in real life puts a serious persuasion on some people.


  • #493
    Aoibheann
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,383 ✭✭✭Aoibheann


    I'd just like to say another thing:

    People have said they've been offended by this. That's fair enough, I can understand that at least. But throwing offensive remarks back at people doesn't make it right. Calling someone a bully or a coward is a pretty serious and insulting allegation, and is definitely not going to make people consider an apology!


  • #494
    Insect Overlord
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,033 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    Midnight_EG wrote: »
    I stand by absolutely everything I've said, I have absolutely no respect for those involved that haven't spoken up.

    Also, and this is nothing to do you as a person, but I don't think it fair that you, as a friend of those involved, can say such things.


    I expect a C-Mod or an Admin to reply as being friends with someone in real life puts a serious persuasion on some people.

    What you said above is bordering on personal abuse. I'm giving you the chance to reign it back a little. I also posted some general guidelines for people to remember when posting. Ignoring those would not be a good idea.

    I'll admit that I'm a good friend of D4RK ONION, but I've only met one of the others involved on one or two occasions. That is irrelevant. I approach every action on this forum neutrally and objectively.

    I've already made it very clear that two C-Mods are reviewing this whole thing, so that point is redundant anyway...


  • #495
    Midnight_EG
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,775 ✭✭✭Midnight_EG


    Aoibheann wrote: »
    I'd just like to say another thing:

    People have said they've been offended by this. That's fair enough, I can understand that at least. But throwing offensive remarks back at people doesn't make it right. Calling someone a bully or a coward is a pretty serious and insulting allegation, and is definitely not going to make people consider an apology!
    I'm not looking for an apology, I'm looking for clarification on the comments made over the last day or two.

    I'm basing the 'insults' on the behaviour of the posters, not on them personally.
    Insect Overlord wrote: »
    What you said above is bordering on personal abuse. I'm giving you the chance to reign it back a little. I also posted some general guidelines for people to remember when posting. Ignoring those would not be a good idea.

    I'll admit that I'm a good friend of D4RK ONION, but I've only one of the others involved on one or two occasions. That is irrelevant. I approach every action on this forum neutrally and objectively.

    I've already made it very clear that two C-Mods are reviewing this whole thing, so that point is redundant anyway...

    I posted, originally, in such a way that I was not taking into account the posts made since I last posted. I posted my own opinion and I certainly didn't mean it to come across as personal abuse.

    I'm not questioning how you mod, and certainly wouldn't as I think all the mods here do a fine job, I just think it fair that friends of those involved can't give a verdict on the whole scenario without having talked to all those involved, hence my want of clarification of the whole thing.

    Also, I've been made aware that one, maybe two, C-Mods are having a look at this.


  • #496
    Pygmalion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,082 ✭✭✭Pygmalion


    Midnight_EG wrote: »
    Since I made this post, not one single person involved has spoken up and explained what was going on, so I'd like to ask why you three haven't replied?
    I was busy with college work and installing FreeBSD (I only just now got a web-browser that it isn't painful to use Boards on/has graphics).
    A couple of people have asked me about it through PMs or on IRC and I responded to them, but I wasn't going to try and discuss it while using a browser that repeatedly logged me out and was painfully difficult to browse boards with unless I felt it really necessary.
    If you made the decision to take part in that piss-taking, why have you now not got the balls to reply to the thread, explain your actions and maybe apologise to anybody it may have hurt or made felt shit about themselves?
    I thought the actions were fairly self-explanatory, we were bringing attention to a behaviour that annoyed us.
    I don't think it was unreasonable, and at the time it was thought that it would have more impact than a message that would probably be ignored.

    As has been said before, it was attacking a behaviour, not any individual posters, those it related to have been fine posters for the most part.
    Maybe people read too much into it and/or took it personally, but I don't think that I, or the others, need to apologise for the posts.
    Did you maybe think of what was going to happen once people read your little joke, did you maybe think people would hold you in high regard and bow beneath your feet, or had you maybe considered the fact that some people will now forever look upon you as cowards who can't justify their actions based on their own opinions.
    I wasn't entirely sure what the reaction would be tbh.
    For what it's worth, while it was the 3 (perhaps a couple more if you want to stretch it) of us participating there were quite a few other people annoyed with the behaviour.
    Since it's happened a few people I wouldn't usually be talking to have mentioned to me that they liked the posts and/or are glad the topic was brought up, so I think I'm justified in feeling that it wasn't a cliquey or elitist thing, and the topic was worth bringing up.

    As for how it was brought up, which tbh was the real issue, I can't speak for the others, but basically I felt it was more likely to actually cause discussion than any other way, and tbh I thought that if people saw it for what it was, and not just as an insult, it would be less painful than trying to approach the issue in a more formal way (though that looks the be the way it's going anyway).
    I ask you to respond, but in your words, not these words of people that have spoken between my quoted post and this post.
    Well, I responded.


  • #497
    Midnight_EG
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,775 ✭✭✭Midnight_EG


    Pygmalion wrote: »
    I was busy with college work and installing FreeBSD (I only just now got a web-browser that it isn't painful to use Boards on/has graphics).
    A couple of people have asked me about it through PMs or on IRC and I responded to them, but I wasn't going to try and discuss it while using a browser that repeatedly logged me out and was painfully difficult to browse boards with unless I felt it really necessary.


    I thought the actions were fairly self-explanatory, we were bringing attention to a behaviour that annoyed us.
    I don't think it was unreasonable, and at the time it was thought that it would have more impact than a message that would probably be ignored.

    As has been said before, it was attacking a behaviour, not any individual posters, those it related to have been fine posters for the most part.
    Maybe people read too much into it and/or took it personally, but I don't think that I, or the others, need to apologise for the posts.


    I wasn't entirely sure what the reaction would be tbh.
    For what it's worth, while it was the 3 (perhaps a couple more if you want to stretch it) of us participating there were quite a few other people annoyed with the behaviour.
    Since it's happened a few people I wouldn't usually be talking to have mentioned to me that they liked the posts and/or are glad the topic was brought up, so I think I'm justified in feeling that it wasn't a cliquey or elitist thing, and the topic was worth bringing up.

    As for how it was brought up, which tbh was the real issue, I can't speak for the others, but basically I felt it was more likely to actually cause discussion than any other way, and tbh I thought that if people saw it for what it was, and not just as an insult, it would be less painful than trying to approach the issue in a more formal way (though that looks the be the way it's going anyway).


    Well, I responded.
    Thanks for responding, but now the question remains as to why you had to do it publically and not by sending a PM to let either the mods know, or the people involved that it was a bit much...?


  • #498
    Novella
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,713 ✭✭✭✭Novella


    I really liked your post just there, Pyg. :)

    Y'see, the way I saw it was like this : First, I read it and was completely confused. I mean, I even checked your Facebook page 'cause I really thought someone had said something funny on there. Then I was more confused 'cause there was nothing. After a while, I started to think, I dunno, that you guys had been having some sort of discussion together and wanted to slag other people off.

    Then I thought that was mean. I do get where you're coming from, really I do but tbh, I still don't think it was the best course of action. With a forum like this, you don't know people well enough to judge how they're gonna react to what you might see as a joke... so that's why I think it was insensitive.

    You say you wanted to start a discussion, but after that The Den was completed deserted. I won't speak for others, but I did feel intimidated. I felt that if you were talking about these kind of things, who knows what you were saying about me etc., and the thought that I was annoying any of you upset me... so I stopped posting.

    I'm sure that wasn't your intention, but that's how it made me feel.


  • #499
    Pygmalion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,082 ✭✭✭Pygmalion


    Midnight_EG wrote: »
    Thanks for responding, but now the question remains as to why you had to do it publically and not by sending a PM to let either the mods know, or the people involved that it was a bit much...?

    Well letting a mod know just seemed a bit excessive to me, maybe I was wrong.

    As for PMing you, I figured that a single PM would just come across as "I don't like your behaviour, stop annoying me".
    If the group of us all PMed in my opinion that would be more intimidating than having it said publically; seems like it'd feel like being ganged up on privately vs. opening up an actual discussion. That's how I'd feel if I was on the receiving end anyway. (Obviously the intent wouldn't actually be to "gang up on" anyone, but you can see where I'm coming from).

    I'm not going to claim I thought everything through perfectly anyway, but it just seemed like of the options available treating it lightheartedly, at the time, seemed like a reasonable approach.


  • #500
    challengemaster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,930 ✭✭✭✭challengemaster


    Midnight_EG wrote: »
    Thanks for responding, but now the question remains as to why you had to do it publically and not by sending a PM to let either the mods know, or the people involved that it was a bit much...?

    Tbh i've been fairly clueless about this all until now - had a peek over most of it....my opinion?

    If you've got a problem with a particular posting style or a few people - STFU and keep it to yourself. Because I'd be willing to bet there's plenty of others that might feel the same way about your posting style, or you. Here's an example. "Herp de derp derp linux, derp de derp maths"

    Boards has an ignore option, so if you really feel that strongly about it, add the users to your ignore list and get over it.

    Absolutely no need to berate other users. If people want to post certain ways, whats the problem. So long as it's not fecking 1337-speak or anything that majorly disrupts the flow of the forum, where's the issue. This isn't nazi germany, like.


  • #501
    Midnight_EG
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,775 ✭✭✭Midnight_EG


    Pygmalion wrote: »
    Well letting a mod know just seemed a bit excessive to me, maybe I was wrong.

    As for PMing you, I figured that a single PM would just come across as "I don't like your behaviour, stop annoying me".
    If the group of us all PMed in my opinion that would be more intimidating than having it said publically; seems like it'd feel like being ganged up on privately vs. opening up an actual discussion. That's how I'd feel if I was on the receiving end anyway. (Obviously the intent wouldn't actually be to "gang up on" anyone, but you can see where I'm coming from).

    I'm not going to claim I thought everything through perfectly anyway, but it just seemed like of the options available treating it lightheartedly, at the time, seemed like a reasonable approach.
    A PM would have made a point though.

    So ganging up publically versus privately is different...how?


    I appreciate the fact you're willing to talk this out.


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  • #502
    **Timbuk2**
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 7,396 Mod ✭✭✭✭**Timbuk2**


    OK I may be too 'new' to C+H to notice what has been said, but since the start of last summer I haven't noticed a change in atmosphere at all. It's still the same helpful, extremely friendly forum as it always was.

    As jumpguy excellently put it earlier, the change in atmosphere arises from the new posters. The 'older' members (the ones that have been here the longest) have been used to a certain group of regulars, and now that is slowly shifting into a new group. For example, I did my Junior Cert in 2008 and my Leaving Cert in 2010 - many regulars of this forum did their Leaving Cert before I did my Junior Cert. I'm a first year in college, so it might be even more extreme for those in secondary school!

    As for the posts in the Den - I really think it has been blown out of proportion - and this is coming from someone who knows virtually no-one from C+H, therefore it's not like I'm part of a clique. It was 11 posts out of 23,070 (approx) total posts. [latex]\displaystyle \frac{11}{23070}[/latex] = 0.04% of the total posts. Imagine the same proportion of a box of Rice Crispies, you'd be left with a single Rice Crispie grain. This example has no relevance, I just love numbers :P
    There was no malice intended in those posts. I do appreciate that it can be intimidating for a new member, but as pointed out a while ago in this very thread, the connection between users is part of what makes this forum! I have been a member of this site since 2005, long before C+H existed (I think!) and didn't post until mid-2010, although I read the forum many times before. I was too intimidated to post in C+H because it seemed like everybody knew everybody. And this was the 'old' C+H. Once I joined I felt instantly welcomed. In fact, I think the 'new' C+H is even more welcoming of new members than the old one!

    Posting about facebook statuses and whatnot isn't a huge problem, in my opinion, once you let people in on it. I don't like reading "Somebody seems to have been fraped",etc. when the post can only be understood by a minority of C+H users. As much as I hate namedropping, even Fad did something similar earlier - about mentioning other reasons why he would want to not post anymore in C+H. I'm not blaming Fad personally, and it's not like I want to know what it is in a nosey way, but if somebody is going to be vague about something, even if it makes sense to some C+H users, then they shouldn't post it publicly - PMs/MSN/Visitor Messages/Facebook would be a more appropriates means.

    Sorry for being so unorganised and scattered with my thoughts - it's a bit late at night for my brain to function! I'll read through this in the morning and correct any spelling mistakes, etc.

    tl;dr
    C+H = doing really well, welcoming!
    new atmosphere => caused by new members
    problems that exist now actually did exist in the past, but maybe the regulars that have been here for a while didn't notice because they were part of it, and thus didn't feel marginalised (just a theory!)


  • #503
    Insect Overlord
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,033 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    challengemaster wrote: »
    If you've got a problem with a particular posting style or a few people - STFU and keep it to yourself. Because I'd be willing to bet there's plenty of others that might feel the same way about your posting style, or you. Here's an example. "Herp de derp derp linux, derp de derp maths"

    Would you pass that same message onto the posters who felt offended by a different kind of posting style 48 hours ago? Or are they right to voice their grievances, while others STFU?


  • #504
    challengemaster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,930 ✭✭✭✭challengemaster


    Insect Overlord wrote: »
    Would you pass that same message onto the posters who felt offended by a different kind of posting style 48 hours ago? Or are they right to voice their grievances, while others STFU?

    Slightly different circumstances.

    1) Person doesn't like other persons post style.

    2) person publically voices opinions about this, and berates other user.

    My point being, it shouldn't have happened in the first place. That's where the STFU/keeping it to yourself bit comes in. As for being taken the piss out of, they're more than right (and justified) to voice their concerns.


  • #505
    Davidius
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,893 ✭✭✭Davidius


    It was supposed to be a humorous way of highlighting a certain behavioural pattern in recent posts. I'm going to be honest and say that I was never particularly attentive of who was making the posts, it was the trend that irked me a bit.

    With that noted I don't really see how PMing the posters in question is a better way of going about it. For one it doesn't really highlight the issue on a forum level which seemed like part of the point. Also because I assume people would be more inclined to think they were being singled out and criticised specifically what with it being a form of one-on-one communication.

    I didn't anticipate people even paying much heed to our posts let alone it sparking a serious outrage. Even so I feel the reaction here has been fairly disproportionate, I seriously cannot say I would react the same way if the situation was reversed.

    My personal point of view, speaking for nobody but myself here was that the issue was silly enough that parodying it seemed like a harmless enough way of bringing it up. I stand by that, I think the reaction here has been absolutely ridiculous.


  • #506
    Insect Overlord
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,033 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    Once again, people seem to be missing a very important fact.

    No individual user was singled out by name, by location, by gender, or by any other means. Nobody was abused, berated or deliberately intimidated.

    If anything, the way in which people recognised elements of themselves in such extravagantly exaggerated posts says more about how they view themselves than anything else.

    Telling one group to STFU while standing up for another is not fair, and is not an appropriate way to address this problem.


  • #507
    Midnight_EG
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,775 ✭✭✭Midnight_EG


    Right-o, I thank you ,davidius, for replying.



    Now that I have clarification, I can say I'm gonna stop posting in C&H.


    Stay classy, bye now.


  • #508
    challengemaster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,930 ✭✭✭✭challengemaster


    Insect Overlord wrote: »
    Once again, people seem to be missing a very important fact.

    No individual user was singled out by name, by location, by gender, or by any other means. Nobody was abused, berated or deliberately intimidated.
    No, no SINGLE user was. Multiple users were, and by the way they post on the forum.

    Also, incase you haven't noticed, pygmalion, in his post just there, singled out Midnight_EG.
    Midnight_EG wrote:
    Thanks for responding, but now the question remains as to why you had to do it publically and not by sending a PM to let either the mods know, or the people involved that it was a bit much...?
    Pygmalion wrote:
    As for PMing you
    If anything, the way in which people recognised elements of themselves in such extravagantly exaggerated posts says more about how they view themselves than anything else.
    Or, that they're able to spot where someone's taking the piss out of them by exaggerating their posting style.

    Would you say the same thing if a student was being bullied by the same means? Say, for example, mocking an accent, and a group of students REALLY exaggerate it. You'd feel justified saying that if they recognised elements of themselves in it, it says more about how they view themself? Honestly?
    Telling one group to STFU while standing up for another is not fair, and is not an appropriate way to address this problem.
    You're missing the point. There would be no problem if "one group" kept their opinions to themselves in the first place. It's none of their business how other users decide to post.


  • #509
    randylonghorn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,509 ✭✭✭✭randylonghorn


    Insect Overlord wrote: »
    Telling one group to STFU while standing up for another is not fair, and is not an appropriate way to address this problem.
    I agree.

    I do think though that a bit more tolerance all round for other peoples posting styles would be no harm. I regularly skim past posts in this and other forums which don't interest me or which occasionally make me go :rolleyes:, but I don't get my knickers in a knot about them unless they're abusive or in breach of charter or the general Boards rules.

    In Noc, I used to regularly skim past pages of late night discussions re: computer programming, often involving some of my co-mods ... the very same people who would have a fit about 3 posts in a row about sports, and say it was hijacking the forum!! :D

    But a lot of Noc-users were into their programming, and were happy to discuss it at 2 in the morning in the Lair, and the fact that I hadn't a bull's clue what they were on about never bothered me. I tend, for example, to treat the recurrent maths theme here much the same.

    Tolerance.

    So good it might have been made by Carlsberg.
    Davidius wrote: »
    My personal point of view, speaking for nobody but myself here was that the issue was silly enough that parodying it seemed like a harmless enough way of bringing it up. I stand by that, I think the reaction here has been absolutely ridiculous.
    As I said above, I think people often under-estimate the power of satire to get under peoples skins.

    That's what makes it such an effective political weapon.

    I have to admit that as soon as I saw that series of posts I could feel the storm sign gathering in my rheumatic-y joints. Probably a symptom of what challengemaster insists on calling my advanced years! Or maybe it's just experience.

    That said, I agree that there has been complete over-reaction.

    In a sane world, this should have played out thus:

    "Here, can't say I / we liked those posts much, I / we found them a bit offensive."

    "Oh, right. Look, we were trying to make a point, and to make it light-heartedly, we didn't actually mean to make anyone feel small. Sorry about that."

    "Fair enough, forget about it."

    (Make-up sex optional)

    And it should have played out away from public view (esp. if it got to the sex part).


  • #510
    Insect Overlord
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,033 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    challengemaster wrote: »
    No, no SINGLE user was. Multiple users were, and by the way they post on the forum.

    It is claimed that multiple users were singled out, but I'm astounded that the loudest reaction about it is coming from posters who very rarely use the forum. Are they personally offended, despite their own posts not being in question? I don't see the motivation behind certain posters' arguments today.
    challengemaster wrote: »
    Also, incase you haven't noticed, pygmalion, in his post just there, singled out Midnight_EG.

    That is a very selective quote, and paints the entire scene from a deliberately obscured angle. Pygmalion was responding to a question posed by one person, Midnight. By responding to them personally, it was inevitable that Midnight would be addressed individually.

    And anyway, that was a post that occurred over 48 hours after the original "offending" posts, and should in no way be thrown in with them when it's taken from a very different part of this argument.
    challengemaster wrote: »
    Or, that they're able to spot where someone's taking the piss out of them by exaggerating their posting style.

    Would you say the same thing if a student was being bullied by the same means? Say, for example, mocking an accent, and a group of students REALLY exaggerate it. You'd feel justified saying that if they recognised elements of themselves in it, it says more about how they view themself? Honestly?

    You are not comparing like with like here. The analogy doesn't work. Instead it serves only to associate three posters with brutal behaviour that has never actually occurred here. That kind of extrapolation deflects attention from what is actually at the root of the issue. Comparing ten satirical posts with racial bigotry is not right, not fair and not appropriate.
    challengemaster wrote: »
    You're missing the point. There would be no problem if "one group" kept their opinions to themselves in the first place. It's none of their business how other users decide to post.

    One group made an effort to create something a little bit different, and to stimulate productive discussion. They made their point briefly and in good humour. They broke no rules. They have as much of a right to voice their opinions as anyone else here.

    Another group took offence by it, and spent the best part of twelve hours building it up into a problem of epic proportions. They took up the time of their fellow posters, moderators and even two cat-mods with emotional outbursts and even with some off-target attempts at forum-wide feedback. This despite the issue having arisen in only one thread. They too have had their opinions and their voices heard.

    This is being dealt with, a fact many people seem to be ignoring. No further feedback is required. We know what happened. We know who is involved. We know how different parties have reacted. A decision will be reached soon. We'll aim to address every concern and continue in our efforts of making this a great forum to post in. A number of posters have already intimated that they no longer wish to post here. That's a great shame, but it's entirely their own choosing. They're always welcome to come back and join in again if they change their minds.

    I said it at 23:55 and I'll say it again now. The matter is being dealt with. Go and make use of the rest of the forum. Enjoy it. Find the things you do find interesting and talk about those for a while.


    That is a direct mod-instruction. I do not want to see another reply here between now and 10:00 in the morning, unless it is made by Piste, KnifeWRENCH, g'em or Trout. Use private messages in the mean time, if needs be.

    Goodnight.


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  • #511
    Piste
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,440 ✭✭✭✭Piste


    Right I feel a bit retarded cos there's a massive question hanging over the last couple of pages that nobody has seemed to answer....Midnight_EG, Bonito and Novella I get that you think the forum seems cliquey, but why are you three particularly offended by the satirical posts made earlier in the thread? It only seems to have bothered you three personally, although a few more have siad they disagree with the posts, do you feel the posts were indirectly targetting you?

    Feel free to PM me or wait until the thread is unlocked :)


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