Students attack Leinster house with Mars Bars

padmcb1 · 03-11-2010 10:36PM

mal1 wrote: »

I hear a lot of Northern accents in those videos.

Implying what??

Killer Pigeon · 03-11-2010 10:36PM

k_mac wrote: »

That video was clearly edited. Look at the speed of the batons. A baton swung that hard has no force. Something isn't right there. I also like how the bit at the bottom where the protesters are kicking the Gardaí has been omitted.

Well it certainly must have been edited very fast, and by the way, are you a video expert? Can you clarify those comments? I really doubt that the riot police were gentle tapping the students. I saw the guy with the blond hair (not the guy with the long blond hair) and striped grey and black jumper later with blood on his forehead (he's in the front row of the sit-down protest).

Also, Gardaí have a history of this sort of violence so I'm not surprised if they did react in this way.

The people in the sit down protest weren't involved throwing missiles. It was the scum at the back spurring on the violence who were (aka. SF and SWP).

foxinsox · 03-11-2010 10:36PM

Des Carter wrote: »

Of course the USI aren't going to condone the attacks if they promote violence they will lose all credibility.

You should and are allowed to enter a government building and yes the Gardai will move you its just HOW they move you is the problem.

Uts a PUBLIC road you are allowed onto it you dont see police beating up homeless people who are sleeping on the streets.

The Gardais job is to protect the public, not harm them.

I just quoted the USI to keep my copy and paste thing in context..

If you are sitting on the floor in a government building they can move you whatever way they choose to do so, I'd be pretty sure they asked them to move first.. If they chose not to move I'd imagine the Gardai can use necessary force to remove them from the floor.

It is a public road..

I am a member of the public..

Could I have walked up that road safely today?

I believe the Gardai were trying to protect the public.

And, no I have never seen a Garda beating up a homeless person..

Des Carter · 03-11-2010 10:39PM

TashaMonster wrote: »

You were sitting in a public place blocking the movement of people going about their daily business. YOU were in the wrong. Of course you have the right to protest but once you're informed it's time to move along and YOU refuse to do so then YOU must face the consequences.

As for calling the garda a coward, how dare you? 3 gaurds ended up injured today and they were just doing their job, they weren't to know if and when somebody in the crowd would pull out a weapon or try to harm them, you got hurt because you put yourself in a position where you were disobeying the law, what did you expect them to do once you refused to follow instructions, say pretty pretty please. His orders were to clear the street and thats what he did, Grow up and accept responsibility !

What a load of horsesh!t if everyone had that attitude then the Government would do what they always do and send the peaceful protest into a sectioned off street somewhere and let them have their spiff and clear them out before 6. Then hardly mention it on the news saying there were only half the number of students their and its forgotten within a week.

Im sorry but if your happy with that then you deserve to have cuts.

Killer Pigeon · 03-11-2010 10:40PM

Des Carter wrote: »

Of course the USI aren't going to condone the attacks if they promote violence they will lose all credibility.

You should and are allowed to enter a government building and yes the Gardai will move you its just HOW they move you is the problem.

Uts a PUBLIC road you are allowed onto it you dont see police beating up homeless people who are sleeping on the streets.

The Gardais job is to protect the public, not harm them.

Of course they did the Govt has a large share in RTE and so RTE spin and edit stories in favour of the government.

Gary Redmond behind the scenes is just a closeted Fianna Fáiler who does what he's told, I'm not surprised the USI would say this. The sit-down protesters were not causing trouble - just because they were not directly affiliated with the USI doesn't mean they were in the wrong. The SF and SWP as I've said before were the ones causing trouble and they were getting other people hurt.

mickydoomsux · 03-11-2010 10:44PM

What happened today was pathetic. Fees are coming, no matter what happens. The protesters just came off as petulant children in the end. Boo-hoo, you won't be able to go out drinking ever week now.

I even hated students when i was a student.

muffy · 03-11-2010 10:45PM

TashaMonster wrote: »

You were sitting in a public place blocking the movement of people going about their daily business. YOU were in the wrong. Of course you have the right to protest but once you're informed it's time to move along and YOU refuse to do so then YOU must face the consequences.

As for calling the garda a coward, how dare you? 3 gaurds ended up injured today and they were just doing their job, they weren't to know if and when somebody in the crowd would pull out a weapon or try to harm them, you got hurt because you put yourself in a position where you were disobeying the law, what did you expect them to do once you refused to follow instructions, say pretty pretty please. His orders were to clear the street and thats what he did, Grow up and accept responsibility !

I have an injury caused by an unprovoked whack of a baton whilst I was LEAVING the area, that is simply unacceptable. I accept that I sat down in the middle of a public road, I was making my point via peaceful protest, even then that does not warrant beatings like I saw today. The fact that I was in fact leaving the area, as were many others who were batoned, speaks volumes for the class of garda in that riot line today.

WolfForager · 03-11-2010 10:45PM

Fee's are all when and good... if means testing is brought in.

Des Carter · 03-11-2010 10:51PM

foxinsox wrote: »

I just quoted the USI to keep my copy and paste thing in context..

I was just making the general point.

foxinsox wrote: »

If you are sitting on the floor in a government building they can move you whatever way they choose to do so, I'd be pretty sure they asked them to move first.. If they chose not to move I'd imagine the Gardai can use necessary force to remove them from the floor.

But thats not right, if your just sitting there in a peaceful protest they cant choose to remove you by hitting you with battons until your a bloody mess.

foxinsox wrote: »

It is a public road..

I am a member of the public..

Could I have walked up that road safely today?

Its a public road, not a safe road. You could have walked down the street if you wanted to. I may choose to run over and back across a road as it is a public road yet it is dangerous.

foxinsox wrote: »

I believe the Gardai were trying to protect the public.

Yes hitting people on the head with battons is protecting them :rolleyes:

foxinsox wrote: »

And, no I have never seen a Garda beating up a homeless person..

its not Ok to attack homeless people sitting down on the road but it is ok to hit protesters doing the same?

muffy · 03-11-2010 10:51PM

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Gary Redmond behind the scenes is just a closeted Fianna Fáiler who does what he's told, I'm not surprised the USI would say this. The sit-down protesters were not causing trouble - just because they were not directly affiliated with the USI doesn't mean they were in the wrong. The SF and SWP as I've said before were the ones causing trouble and they were getting other people hurt.

I have to agree with you here, and disagree. The sit down protest was the work of SWP, and their guy with the megaphone was urging people to sit down and remain calm. At no point did they advocate violence. Someone handed me an egg, and a passing SWP person said "don't throw that at anyone" (I gave it back anyway). I'm not denying there wasn't thugs there (I know at least one group who were advocating violence, in the interest of fairness, I won't name them-but they are thugs). Again, I am not affiliated with them, although after today I will take time to research them.

Dyr · 03-11-2010 10:52PM

You saying I don't? I'm a single male with no dependants. I've geing getting raped by the tax man my whole adult life while he left loopholes big enough to drive a jaguar to court through for his fiddling buddies on the board of banks

Its not the left, the students or the unions (bless their cotton socks) that have bankrupted this country, it's your pals. Hopefully today is just a taster things are going to get a little rough for yiz soon.

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Pay your way buddy, don't expect John Q Taxpayer to bank roll you to a easy street.

Cop yourself on man.

Killer Pigeon · 03-11-2010 10:53PM

mickydoomsux wrote: »

What happened today was pathetic. Fees are coming, no matter what happens. The protesters just came off as petulant children in the end. Boo-hoo, you won't be able to go out drinking ever week now.

I even hated students when i was a student.

You mean the rioters came off as petulant children, the protest was relatively successful.

Killer Pigeon · 03-11-2010 10:56PM

muffy wrote: »

I have to agree with you here, and disagree. The sit down protest was the work of SWP, and their guy with the megaphone was urging people to sit down and remain calm. At no point did they advocate violence. Someone handed me an egg, and a passing SWP person said "don't throw that at anyone" (I gave it back anyway). I'm not denying there wasn't thugs there (I know at least one group who were advocating violence, in the interest of fairness, I won't name them-but they are thugs). Again, I am not affiliated with them, although after today I will take time to research them.

Aye yes, the Sinn Féiners, don't be afraid to speak the truth. I just assumed that the SWP were because I saw people waving their flags on the same line as the people throwing the missiles.

pwd · 03-11-2010 10:56PM

afatbollix wrote: »

http://pix.ie/jimeatsmenu/2011486/in/album/392900

Here's the tit asking for it

You're not allowed hit people just because they're getting in your face.
But it's grand eh cos it's a guard doing it.

mickydoomsux · 03-11-2010 10:57PM

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

You mean the rioters came off as petulant children, the protest was relatively successful.

Successful at doing what? Fees are still coming and all that happened today was that 3 gardai got injured doing their jobs.

Great success.

Killer Pigeon · 03-11-2010 10:57PM

muffy wrote: »

I have to agree with you here, and disagree. The sit down protest was the work of SWP, and their guy with the megaphone was urging people to sit down and remain calm. At no point did they advocate violence. Someone handed me an egg, and a passing SWP person said "don't throw that at anyone" (I gave it back anyway). I'm not denying there wasn't thugs there (I know at least one group who were advocating violence, in the interest of fairness, I won't name them-but they are thugs). Again, I am not affiliated with them, although after today I will take time to research them.

If you're ever interested in the left - join labour :P :P :P :P

Killer Pigeon · 03-11-2010 11:00PM

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Successful at doing what? Fees are still coming and all that happened today was that 3 gardai got injured doing their jobs.

Great success.

It wasn't the intention of the USI to protest in front of the Dept of Education which caused all the injury in the first place.

Miss Lockhart · 03-11-2010 11:00PM

TashaMonster wrote: »

You were sitting in a public place blocking the movement of people going about their daily business. YOU were in the wrong. Of course you have the right to protest but once you're informed it's time to move along and YOU refuse to do so then YOU must face the consequences.

I'm sorry, can you just clarify something here for me.

Let's say we agree that someone is sitting in a public place, blocking people going about their business. Let's say we agree they are in the wrong. Let's say we agree that if they refuse to move when told by Gardai then they are in the wrong. Let's say we agree that then they should face the consequences.

Are you saying that you think the consequences should be being beaten over the head with a baton?

TashaMonster wrote: »

3 gaurds ended up injured today and they were just doing their job, they weren't to know if and when somebody in the crowd would pull out a weapon or try to harm them,

Yes, they obviously had reason to suspect that a weapon could, possibly, be pulled out - considering there had been things thrown and some Gardai injured.

However, they are supposed to be trained to deal appropriately with these situations. I sincerely doubt that indiscriminately hitting people, who are sitting down, with batons, is the appropriate response.

If a person has thrown a missile at a Garda then they should be arrested. However, if at the time of arrest they are sitting down and not being threatening, then I honestly think hitting them with a baton is excessive force.

TashaMonster wrote: »

you got hurt because you put yourself in a position where you were disobeying the law, what did you expect them to do once you refused to follow instructions, say pretty pretty please. His orders were to clear the street and thats what he did, Grow up and accept responsibility !

I was not at this protest. I am not a student and I don't even totally support their position.

Those of us who were not there do not know the exact details of the events yet, so we cannot be certain of how things happened.

However, it seriously concerns me that people think that someone who is sitting down protesting - even if they are blocking a public area, should be beaten. There are ways to move them without the use of such force.

TashaMonster · 03-11-2010 11:00PM

Des Carter wrote: »

What a load of horsesh!t if everyone had that attitude then the Government would do what they always do and send the peaceful protest into a sectioned off street somewhere and let them have their spiff and clear them out before 6. Then hardly mention it on the news saying there were only half the number of students their and its forgotten within a week.

Im sorry but if your happy with that then you deserve to have cuts.

I'm not talking about the government, I'm not talking about the protest, I'm not talking about the media coverage and I'm not talking about the cuts.

Reread my post before you call it horsesh!t. My point was about that poster not taking responsibility for his own actions and accepting that negative consequences will arise when you act outside the law. Simples

muffy · 03-11-2010 11:02PM

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Aye yes, the Sinn Féiners, don't be afraid to speak the truth. I just assumed that the SWP were because I saw people waving their flags on the same line as the people throwing the missiles.

I saw people of all creeds, colours and political persuasion throwing things today...once the gardai got heavy handed I think many rational people snapped. Personally I lost it for a second when I got a whack of a baton, I remember myself and continued running away from the gardai then.
(Your in the right vein with SF...less political,more...thugs were this group). There was a definite rent a crowd there.

ValJester · 03-11-2010 11:03PM

TashaMonster wrote: »

Reread my post before you call it horsesh!t. My point was about that poster not taking responsibility for his own actions and accepting that negative consequences will arise when you act outside the law. Simples

AND those negative consequences extend to undue force and restraint being used by gardai?

foxinsox · 03-11-2010 11:04PM

I don't know how to do the multi quote thing so you'll have to forgive me for that please.

Des Carter wrote: »

I was just making the general point.

me too

But thats not right, if your just sitting there in a peaceful protest they cant choose to remove you by hitting you with battons until your a bloody mess.

I don't condone violence of any sort, but I do believe they have the right to remove people from where they do not have permission to be, by any reasonable means available to them. This is my personal opinion.

Its a public road, not a safe road. You could have walked down the street if you wanted to. I may choose to run over and back across a road as it is a public road yet it is dangerous.

I understand what you are saying, but as a member of the public the road was not accessible to me today without risking my safety. The Gardai are there to protect the public. Again my opinion on the matter.

Yes hitting people on the head with battons is protecting them :rolleyes:

They didn't hit me so I can't really comment on other peoples' experiences.

its not Ok to attack homeless people sitting down on the road but it is ok to hit protesters doing the same?

I have never heard of 50 homeless people sitting in the Department of Finance, I have no facts to back this one up..

I'm not a student, it doesn't really bother me whether the fees go up or not, not being smart but it just doesn't affect me.

I was just adding my thoughts to the thread. I do think it's a shame that it turned sour after so many students did turn out to protest for what they believe is a legitimate cause.

Apologies to all for the horrible blue typing :-)

wonderfulname · 03-11-2010 11:05PM

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Successful at doing what? Fees are still coming and all that happened today was that 3 gardai got injured doing their jobs.

Great success.

Hes pointing out that the protest and the violence were separate incidents, the gardai weren't injured at the protest, they were injured when the SWP started acting the mick a short period after the protest had ended. Get your facts straight.

muffy · 03-11-2010 11:08PM

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

If you're ever interested in the left - join labour :P :P :P :P

Ah the militant recruitment of the left wing

(or centre left if you prefer). It's refreshing! Nice to see political groups taking an active interest in the youth. I'm keeping my options open!

TashaMonster · 03-11-2010 11:10PM

Well they were pulling people off the road as well and everyone is giving out about that as well. So if they cant pull them off, they can't hit them and they refuse to move when they're told. I understand that the gaurds have special training but there's no magical secret to make people move when they refuse to. Everyone is complaining about the apparent "excessive force" but I don't see anybody putting up any suggestions as to how to move a protesting crowd.

In fact I think overall the Gardai are fairly restrained compared to police forces from other countries. There was no gas used, there was no water canons.

If anyone replies to this and is disagreeing with me can they please include their suggestion as to how to move a large crowd without using any of the above tactics. I understand the people have a right to protest but the gards are simply following orders.

Miss Lockhart · 03-11-2010 11:13PM

TashaMonster wrote: »

Well they were pulling people off the road as well and everyone is giving out about that as well. So if they cant pull them off, they can't hit them and they refuse to move when they're told. I understand that the gaurds have special training but there's no magical secret to make people move when they refuse to. Everyone is complaining about the apparent "excessive force" but I don't see anybody putting up any suggestions as to how to move a protesting crowd.

In fact I think overall the Gardai are fairly restrained compared to police forces from other countries. There was no gas used, there was no water canons.

If anyone replies to this and is disagreeing with me can they please include their suggestion as to how to move a large crowd without using any of the above tactics. I understand the people have a right to protest but the gards are simply following orders.

So, to clarify, do you think that being beaten with a baton is appropriate consequence for sitting down protesting, blocking a road or occupying a building?

steve9859 · 03-11-2010 11:15PM

TashaMonster wrote: »

Everyone is complaining about the apparent "excessive force" but I don't see anybody putting up any suggestions as to how to move a protesting crowd.

In fact I think overall the Gardai are fairly restrained compared to police forces from other countries. There was no gas used, there was no water canons.

Agree completely. To the idiots on this board who are advocating more violent protests, I just want to say that in return I hope we start letting our Gardai behave like the Greece or Italian police.

Killer Pigeon · 03-11-2010 11:17PM

muffy wrote: »

Ah the militant recruitment of the left wing (or centre left if you prefer). It's refreshing! Nice to see political groups taking an active interest in the youth. I'm keeping my options open!

Personally I'd like to maintain a centre left stance but whatever floats your boat. I know some fairly patriotic socialists though.

TashaMonster · 03-11-2010 11:17PM

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

So, to clarify, do you think that being beaten with a baton is appropriate consequence for sitting down protesting, blocking a road or occupying a building?

Well they were breaking the law, so yes they were bound to face some negative consequences. As I asked in my post can you suggest an alternative way to move a crowd?

Clarify for me do you think its appropriate for protesters to throw missiles at gardai who are just standing nearby and haven't yet interacted with them in any way?

Killer Pigeon · 03-11-2010 11:21PM

steve9859 wrote: »

Agree completely. To the idiots on this board who are advocting more violent protests, I just want to say that in return I hope we start letting our Gardai behave like the Greece or Italian police.

Oh please, nobody here is advocating violent protests. The violence was centered around a group of hooligans (a.k.a., Sinn Féiners) who decided to disrupt a separate protest outside the Dept. Finance by throwing stuff. We need more tacticians in the gardaí who target the people who are creating the violence and not just mowing down anyone they see. Brut force will never work.

Students attack Leinster house with Mars Bars

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