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Comments

  • #422
    Midnight_EG
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,807 ✭✭✭Midnight_EG


    Noel2k9 wrote: »
    Pretty much every day ever since for always.

    Anyways I'm bored now.. Toodles

    Can I get an example please...?


  • #423
    Insect Overlord
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,161 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    "Did you do it? Did you make the Face-den?!"


  • #424
    Bonito
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,399 ✭✭✭Bonito


    Hotaru wrote: »
    Epic win guys :D
    Not for everyone.
    D4RK ONION wrote: »
    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTwIZ9wdZ35APFdJBNS7R2yxw-NGPgW8-2BdMZUXIhzJbHxcvY&t=1&usg=__VWzJ54VqKpax62bc9seVivj3kGQ=
    Of course it is, 'cause I didn't bloody see anything but it was posted about in here. :rolleyes:

    Everyone who posts in here who missed whatever it was that was going on was left thinking "What in the sweet name of jaysus is goin' on?"

    I think it's just as bad as trolling. Alas, the conflict, you can't really troll in an off topic thread, 'cause that's what this is.
    Midnight_EG wrote: »
    So what's the story with you three taking the piss out of people chatting in The Den about stuff that happened on a totally different site?
    Craguls wrote: »
    Elitism's funny apparently.
    Noel2k9 wrote: »
    Well I'm presuming they got sick of the MSN like conversations that occur in yaaah/arrgh and decided to show how annoying it is...

    While I agree with you, I think it was childish to do it. If they had a problem with it, there's a feedback thread.

    I'm only fresh in here, I'm not trying to get anybody's backs up but that's life, it happens, not everyone will agree with everyone.

    What went on the other night, whatever way it was planned to fair it between those posting, it's obviously gone pear shaped, cause this thread has been dead since it happened.

    So, this is a request to all.

    Stop excluding posters, it's alienating new people who might want to join in on the fun, myself being one of those posters.

    I think IRC, MSN, Facebook, Bebo, private conversations that everyone can't take part in should be kept out of the den 'cause it's starting to smell of elitism and cliquishness.

    I'm also of opinion and understanding that it's not only new users who are being put off from posting here because of all of this.

    Mods, if you feel this is better placed in feedback, feel free to move it, I'm just voicing my concerns over what went on in here in the last day or 2, 'cause it's obviously upturned some foundations of the place. It's up to yourselves if you want to leave it here for all to see or not.


  • #425
    Insect Overlord
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,161 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    Good points Bonito, and I'll leave the post here where most people are likely to read it. I'm going to spend a while reviewing the Facebook parody/satire/spamming that happened the other night, will post back here again if I feel any further action is required.


  • #426
    Insect Overlord
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,161 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    Right, review completed. I see nothing wrong with what happened here two nights ago. The lads took the piss out of a type of behaviour, and not out of particular posters. I stand by two of the three words I made in the above post: satire and parody. What happened was a comic effort, and a good one at that.


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  • #427
    Bonito
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,399 ✭✭✭Bonito


    Insect Overlord wrote: »
    Right, review completed. I see nothing wrong with what happened here two nights ago. The lads took the piss out of a type of behaviour, and not out of particular posters. I stand by two of the three words I made in the above post: satire and parody. What happened was a comic effort, and a good one at that.

    Not all would agree. Only those involved do. If they don't like some posters having private jokes & convos in the chat thread, a simple note to yourself or a co-mod and then yourselves can act on it and ask the posters to keep it to a min.

    For a review I believe you need to ask everyone who posts in here how they feel. By taking the mickey jagger out of what some people post, you're essentially taking the mickey jagger out of them.

    I'm pretty sure some posters now feel silenced and annoyed and wont post in here at all anymore or as regularly as they used to for fear of a repeat of such intimidating behaviour.


  • #428
    suitcasepink
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 7,854 Mod ✭✭✭✭suitcasepink


    What happened to the thanks given to those posts in question?


  • #429
    storm2811
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,183 ✭✭✭storm2811


    Bonito wrote: »
    Not all would agree. Only those involved do. If they don't like some posters having private jokes & convos in the chat thread, a simple note to yourself or a co-mod and then yourselves can act on it and ask the posters to keep it to a min.

    For a review I believe you need to ask everyone who posts in here how they feel. By taking the mickey jagger out of what some people post, you're essentially taking the mickey jagger out of them.

    I'm pretty sure some posters now feel silenced and annoyed and wont post in here at all anymore or as regularly as they used to for fear of a repeat of such intimidating behaviour.

    I'm not involved in what's going on but I would agree that it's put me off a bit tbh, I've just started posting here and I'd be a bit wary of this, who knows how often it happens?
    Mods are meant to set an example to show what's acceptable in a forum and I'm sure if we started doing it we'd get a PM or even an infraction, one or two posts is okay but there really was a lot.


  • #430
    Insect Overlord
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,161 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    Bonito wrote: »
    Not all would agree. Only those involved do. If they don't like some posters having private jokes & convos in the chat thread, a simple note to yourself or a co-mod and then yourselves can act on it and ask the posters to keep it to a min.

    For a review I believe you need to ask everyone who posts in here how they feel. By taking the mickey jagger out of what some people post, you're essentially taking the mickey jagger out of them.

    I'm pretty sure some posters now feel silenced and annoyed and wont post in here at all anymore or as regularly as they used to for fear of a repeat of such intimidating behaviour.

    Are you being serious? Do you genuinely feel that a series of 11 posts in one thread by four regulars is enough to make people want to leave the whole forum?

    I'd advise you not to post on the behalf of others unless you can back it up by telling me who you're posting for. "Some posters now feel silenced" reads like a line from a tabloid article, appealing to as many readers' emotions as possible by giving an illusion of an issue that isn't really there.


  • #431
    Bonito
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,399 ✭✭✭Bonito


    Insect Overlord wrote: »
    Are you being serious?
    Yep.
    Do you genuinely feel that a series of 11 posts in one thread by four regulars is enough to make people want to leave the whole forum?
    The proof is in the puff, none of the regulars, not even those who made the posts, have posted in here since. I'm just calling it as I see it, I'm speaking on behalf of nobody.

    The regulars who the posts were directed aren't going to speak out, because they'll want to avoid any upset in the forum. However, they'd only be tossing the 2nd stone, IMO.
    I'd advise you not to post on the behalf of others unless you can back it up by telling me who you're posting for.
    I'm posting for myself.
    "Some posters now feel silenced" reads like a line from a tabloid article, appealing to as many readers' emotions as possible by giving an illusion of an issue that isn't really there.
    Nope I wrote that line myself, it's not from a newspaper. Like I said, some regulars are hardly going to voice against another group of regulars.

    This must be the only main stream forum where antics like this are allowed. Take TLL for example, the chat thread was abolished because some posters started to form in to a clique and new posters were intimidated, alienated and didn't want to post in the forum as a whole, let alone just the chat thread.

    Since the chat forum has been taken apart, the forum is more open, everyone interacts, there's no more elitist groups that divide it down the middle.

    I'm not saying that the chat thread needs to go, but that IRC and whatever else is clearly forming elitist groups that are seperate from other posters.

    If you're going to exclude other posters then maybe C&H should be private, like IRC. 'Cause IRC, and those who run it/post regular in it, seem to rule the roost here at times.


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  • #432
    unknown13
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,659 ✭✭✭unknown13


    Bonito wrote: »
    .I'm not saying that the chat thread needs to go, but that IRC and whatever else is clearly forming elitist groups that are seperate from other posters.

    If you're going to exclude other posters then maybe C&H should be private, like IRC. 'Cause IRC, and those who run it/post regular in it, seem to rule the roost here at times.

    I agree with this part only of Bonito's post but I will not be commenting further publicly on this matter.


  • #433
    Novella
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,713 ✭✭✭✭Novella


    Tbph IO, I think what happened in here the other night was completely out of order. I do feel it was intimidating posting, and that's the very reason I haven't posted in C&H since.


  • #434
    randylonghorn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,509 ✭✭✭✭randylonghorn


    Insect Overlord wrote: »
    Right, review completed. I see nothing wrong with what happened here two nights ago. The lads took the piss out of a type of behaviour, and not out of particular posters.
    That may be so, IO, but the timing seems to have left particular posters feeling that it was directed at them.
    Insect Overlord wrote: »
    I stand by two of the three words I made in the above post: satire and parody. What happened was a comic effort, and a good one at that.
    I think satire is exactly right.

    One definition of satire (admittedly pulled from Wiki, but 'tis accurate and to the point) ...

    "In satire, vices, follies, abuses, and shortcomings are held up to ridicule, ideally with the intent of shaming individuals, and society itself, into improvement. Although satire is usually meant to be funny, its greater purpose is constructive social criticism, using wit as a weapon.

    A common feature of satire is strong irony or sarcasm—"in satire, irony is militant" — but parody, burlesque, exaggeration, juxtaposition, comparison, analogy, and double entendre are all frequently used in satirical speech and writing. This "militant" irony or sarcasm often professes to approve (or at least accept as natural) the very things the satirist wishes to attack."

    I have highlighted a few words which may bear thinking about.

    I suppose I would simply question whether satire is necessarily the best form of humour in a forum of this nature, especially if the timing is such that others may feel that it is at least partially directed at them.

    That said, I don't believe for a minute that there was an ounce of malice or the intent to hurt involved here. At the very worst, a failure to fully think through how others might end up feeling.

    This discussion isn't going in a good direction.

    Nor should it be necessary.

    Those directly involved need to have a quiet chat off the public site.

    It shouldn't take more than a few words to defuse this and leave it behind us, which is where it should be.

    As I say, I don't believe that there was an ounce of malice or intent to hurt involved here, and it would be a pity to see it affect *anyone's* involvement in or enjoyment of this forum.


  • #435
    Bonito
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,399 ✭✭✭Bonito


    I agree with you Randy with one exception and please, nobody take me up wrong on this. If I were part of what happened the other night and did it for a laugh more than malice, and seen what upset it has caused, I'd have apologised a mountain of times by now but yet those involved have stayed silent.

    IMO, that's the sort of behaviour I'd expect from some sort of bully, not regulars of C&H. I'm sure the posters who had the mick taken out of them feel bullied and intimidated and that's why they've not posted.

    With no apology, there's clearly no remorse for the actions.


  • #436
    randylonghorn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,509 ✭✭✭✭randylonghorn


    I think it's more a failure to see that it has caused upset, or indeed why it should cause upset, Bonito.

    A little space for reflection may be useful, rather than the adding of fuel to the fire.


  • #437
    unknown13
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,659 ✭✭✭unknown13


    Just read over the pages in question and there is some distasteful posts in those pages.


  • #438
    Bonito
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,399 ✭✭✭Bonito


    randylonghorn wrote: »
    I think it's more a failure to see that it has caused upset, or indeed why it should cause upset, Bonito.

    A little space for reflection may be useful, rather than the adding of fuel to the fire.
    Agreed, I think those involved need to get in touch with each other and talk it out.

    Maybe without a moderators perspective at 1st. However if there's going to a repeat, something will have to be done to keep everyone happy.


  • #439
    Ally7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,207 ✭✭✭Ally7


    I agree with bonito here. Maybe the posters involved meant no malice, but it's just an example of the 'cliqueiness' that was discussed in forum feedback not too long ago, something that was found that put some new (and some regular) posters off this forum.


  • #440
    Jay P
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,944 ✭✭✭Jay P


    To be honest, I just have no idea what went on with all that. It's easily ignored, which is exactly what I did.


  • #441
    Namlub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,298 ✭✭✭Namlub


    Not going to go raking through everything that's happened because I'd just be repeating what others have said, but I have to say I agree 100% with this...
    storm2811 wrote: »
    Mods are meant to set an example to show what's acceptable in a forum and I'm sure if we started doing it we'd get a PM or even an infraction, one or two posts is okay but there really was a lot.
    Call me cynical, but I'd seriously question whether the response would have been the same had it been three different members; I don't see how the fact it was humorous (apparently) excuses that kind of behaviour...


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  • #442
    Grindylow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,919 ✭✭✭Grindylow


    Bonito wrote: »
    Not all would agree. Only those involved do. If they don't like some posters having private jokes & convos in the chat thread, a simple note to yourself or a co-mod and then yourselves can act on it and ask the posters to keep it to a min.

    For a review I believe you need to ask everyone who posts in here how they feel. By taking the mickey jagger out of what some people post, you're essentially taking the mickey jagger out of them.

    I'm pretty sure some posters now feel silenced and annoyed and wont post in here at all anymore or as regularly as they used to for fear of a repeat of such intimidating behaviour.

    But isn't that exactly what they had in this thread? It was a private joke among them, right? Same as it was between the other posters.. So like double standards much?


  • #443
    Bonito
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,399 ✭✭✭Bonito


    Noel2k9 wrote: »
    But isn't that exactly what they had in this thread? It was a private joke among them, right? Same as it was between the other posters.. So like double standards much?
    No, it was a parody in which it directly ripped the piss out of other posters. It was clearly pre-meditated & pre-organised privately and then instigated on the thread when it was planned out.

    It's not double standards, if they had a problem with some posters having private conversations or private jokes then all they had to do was point it out to a mod, not publically rip the piss out of fellow posters and have a laugh amongst themselves, that's a horrible thing to do.

    However, you're right, there is double standards, 'cause they get away with it.


  • #444
    Insect Overlord
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,161 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    As I said before, I genuinely feel the posters involved have nothing to apologise for. As such, I will not be asking them to do so. If any of them decides to apologise independently, through their own individual conscience, then they are free to do so.

    This is the second occasion where two Ladies Lounge regulars have tried to propose changes to this forum based on feedback given in tLL. (I refer specifically to Novella and Bonito when I say this, and will point to the recent argument in the Forum Feedback thread for reference.) This is not the Ladies' Lounge, which is now recognised as a Societies-category forum. This is C&H, which is a Recreational Social forum. While they may have some similarities, they have more than enough differences to be recognised independently of each other.

    The necessity for change to improve one forum is not an indication that the same changes should be made elsewhere. A problem arose in tLL, a solution was proposed to suit needs of that forum, people were happy. That's great for the users of that forum, and they should be happy to enjoy the improvements made there. They should not go trying to apply the same rules to other forums in other categories.

    I do not appreciate the use of the word "bullies" in relation to the posters in question here. The four posters involved are among the most regular contributors this forum has had in its 23-months in existence. This does not give them a privileged position, and they are subject to the same rules as every other poster. I'm not going to say much more on their behalf, as they are more than capable of speaking for themselves, apart from this:
    • They did not personally insult any individual poster.
    • Their posts did not isolate any particular group, but merely aped a style of posting that has been quite prevalent recently.
    • In its own way, the prank was a form of feedback itself. However, because they chose to be "clever" in their feedback, their points are being dismissed as elitist. The point they addressed is being drowned out because some posters are getting offended on the behalf of others.
    • This is an off-topic chat thread. It's one part of what is an ever-growing forum. If friends want to chat here they can do so, provided they do so within the rules of the forum charter.

    As for the question of mod-leadership? I read 99% of the posts made on this forum. I don't have to do that, but I do it anyway. I respond to every single reported post, unless KnifeWRENCH or Piste gets to it before me. None of the posts in this thread were reported. None of the silent "intimidated" posters highlighted the problem in the 36 hours between the posts and Bonito's posts today. When somebody did suggest there was a serious problem, I reviewed it and decided that no further action was required. The 11 posts did nothing to deserve Warnings, Infractions or Bans. The ensuing discussion has highlighted the opinions of the users, and that is all the consequence I feel is required here.


  • #445
    KnifeWRENCH
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,148 ✭✭✭✭KnifeWRENCH


    First of all, I've just moved a load of posts from the Den here because there's obviously a problem that needs to be sorted out here. We've had the whole "clique" debate already and tbh I don't think everyone's gonna agree about that issue.

    Secondly, I don't know how many times this has to be said but for God's sake, IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH A POST, REPORT IT. The whole "Mods should lead by example" thing doesn't work if the Mods don't know that there's an issue. If there's a problem, report it. I can't speak for IO or Piste, but I for one:
    (a) do not read the forum every single day, and
    (b) am not psychic.


  • #446
    Grindylow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,919 ✭✭✭Grindylow


    Bonito wrote: »
    No, it was a parody in which it directly ripped the piss out of other posters. It was clearly pre-meditated & pre-organised privately and then instigated on the thread when it was planned out.

    It's not double standards, if they had a problem with some posters having private conversations or private jokes then all they had to do was point it out to a mod, not publically rip the piss out of fellow posters and have a laugh amongst themselves, that's a horrible thing to do.

    However, you're right, there is double standards, 'cause they get away with it.

    Well then why doesn't it just get referred to someone who isn't friends with either party involved? At least then everyone will be happy with the outcome.


  • #447
    Aoibheann
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,383 ✭✭✭Aoibheann


    I'm going to post this as someone who doesn't really use the forum so much these days, so I don't think it would be fair to count me as a part of any clique.

    Personally, I wouldn't find those posts very offensive. I think that one can choose to be offended, or they can choose to get over it and believe that no malice was intended. I would be very much of the mindset that the posts were clearly a joke, and that they were nothing worth getting upset over.

    With that said, it's fair enough of people to get upset over it. But I think that it should be the people it was allegedly aimed at, as opposed to others complaining on their behalf. Nobody can accurately speak for someone else.

    I'll also say this: we have some of the most dedicated mods on this site. Reported posts get dealt with ridiculously quickly. Messes get cleared up quickly. We're lucky to have that. I'll probably be hung out to dry for this one because of who I'm defending, but I honestly don't think that IO would have dealt with any other posters differently. Himself, Piste and KnifeWRENCH are nothing but fair when it comes to forum politics, in my opinion.

    Oh, and I'd like to quote this:
    Jay P wrote: »
    To be honest, I just have no idea what went on with all that. It's easily ignored, which is exactly what I did.

    I couldn't agree more.


  • #448
    Bonito
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,399 ✭✭✭Bonito


    Insect Overlord wrote: »
    As I said before, I genuinely feel the posters involved have nothing to apologise for. As such, I will not be asking them to do so. If any of them decides to apologise independently, through their own individual conscience, then they are free to do so.
    Why would you need to ask someone to apologise? If someone needs to be told or asked to apologise, then they don't mean it.
    This is the second occasion where two Ladies Lounge regulars have tried to propose changes to this forum based on feedback given in tLL. (I refer specifically to Novella and Bonito when I say this,
    Beg your pardon? I'm not a regular of the Ladies Lounge so you can retract that statement.
    and will point to the recent argument in the Forum Feedback thread for reference.) This is not the Ladies' Lounge, which is now recognised as a Societies-category forum. This is C&H, which is a Recreational Social forum. While they may have some similarities, they have more than enough differences to be recognised independently of each other.
    Point to what you like but there's a problem and it's up to the moderators to fix it.
    The necessity for change to improve one forum is not an indication that the same changes should be made elsewhere. A problem arose in tLL, a solution was proposed to suit needs of that forum, people were happy. That's great for the users of that forum, and they should be happy to enjoy the improvements made there. They should not go trying to apply the same rules to other forums in other categories.
    I never said the same changes need to be made, I clearly stated that when I said, and I quote "I'm not saying we need to get rid of the chat thread", but changes might be needed.
    I do not appreciate the use of the word "bullies" in relation to the posters in question here.
    They may not be bullies but behaviour like there's the other night is very intimidating and bullyesque.
    The four posters involved are among the most regular contributors this forum has had in its 23-months in existence. This does not give them a privileged position, and they are subject to the same rules as every other poster.
    That's not what it looks like.. I'm not going to say much more on their behalf, as they are more than capable of speaking for themselves, apart from this:
    • They did not personally insult any individual poster.[/quote] How do you know? Did you ask them?
    • Their posts did not isolate any particular group, but merely aped a style of posting that has been quite prevalent recently. If it was so prevalent, why didn't either A) The mods act on it before something like this happened or B) They report it if it bothered them to the point where they had to plot a little game plan to rip the mick out of the posters that were having private conversations? In what they did, it makes them no better than the posters that were excluding others with their private conversations. IMO, it makes them worse, 'cause they seem to have did it maliciously to put an end to something they didn't like rather than voicing their concerns.
    • In its own way, the prank was a form of feedback itself. However, because they chose to be "clever" in their feedback, their points are being dismissed as elitist. The point they addressed is being drowned out because some posters are getting offended on the behalf of others. I'd put it closer to the rule of "don't be a dick" than being clever. It wasn't fair on other posters. Both the ones it was directed at and the ones like myself who were caught in the middle of it and had to see it.
    • This is an off-topic chat thread. It's one part of what is an ever-growing forum. If friends want to chat here they can do so, provided they do so within the rules of the forum charter. I'll have a thorough read of them in a minute.
    As for the question of mod-leadership? I read 99% of the posts made on this forum. I don't have to do that, but I do it anyway. I respond to every single reported post, unless KnifeWRENCH or Piste gets to it before me.
    Who questioned mod-leadership?
    None of the posts in this thread were reported. None of the silent "intimidated" posters highlighted the problem in the 36 hours between the posts and Bonito's posts today. When somebody did suggest there was a serious problem, I reviewed it and decided that no further action was required. The 11 posts did nothing to deserve Warnings, Infractions or Bans.
    If they were reported, you'd still be of the opinion no action was needed.
    The ensuing discussion has highlighted the opinions of the users, and that is all the consequence I feel is required here.
    I wouldn't draw a line under this yet 'til the other posters make their own points.


  • #449
    Grindylow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,919 ✭✭✭Grindylow


    Bonito wrote: »
    Why would you need to ask someone to apologise? If someone needs to be told or asked to apologise, then they don't mean it.

    Beg your pardon? I'm not a regular of the Ladies Lounge so you can retract that statement. Point to what you like but there's a problem and it's up to the moderators to fix it.

    I never said the same changes need to be made, I clearly stated that when I said, and I quote "I'm not saying we need to get rid of the chat thread", but changes might be needed.

    They may not be bullies but behaviour like there's the other night is very intimidating and bullyesque. That's not what it looks like.. I'm not going to say much more on their behalf, as they are more than capable of speaking for themselves, apart from this:

    Dude, in fairness, you've started posting in C&H with what? 2 weeks? You don't know any of the posters that well and you don't know how C&H works. This is a totally different forum to all the others on boards as it's specifically aimed at teenagers. The people in question had been posting in an incorrect manner for a long time, and this is probably going to come across wrong but I'm going to refer to Novella's previous post in feedback about how hard it is for new members to join in the forum. I'm not trying to aim this at you personally Novella, but in the Yaaah/Arrgh thread along with a few other posters, you guys started to discuss stuff that was carried over from facebook, and like if that's not hypocritical at all, I don't know what is. It just brings across my point that people are quick enough to point out what other people have done wrong, but not themselves.


  • #450
    Bonito
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,399 ✭✭✭Bonito


    Noel2k9 wrote: »
    Well then why doesn't it just get referred to someone who isn't friends with either party involved? At least then everyone will be happy with the outcome.

    Like who? A co-mod, C-mod, Admin?


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  • #451
    Bonito
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,399 ✭✭✭Bonito


    Noel2k9 wrote: »
    Dude, in fairness, you've started posting in C&H with what? 2 weeks? You don't know any of the posters that well and you don't know how C&H works. This is a totally different forum to all the others on boards as it's specifically aimed at teenagers. The people in question had been posting in an incorrect manner for a long time, and this is probably going to come across wrong but I'm going to refer to Novella's previous post in feedback about how hard it is for new members to join in the forum. I'm not trying to aim this at you personally Novella, but in the Yaaah/Arrgh thread along with a few other posters, you guys started to discuss stuff that was carried over from facebook, and like if that's not hypocritical at all, I don't know what is. It just brings across my point that people are quick enough to point out what other people have done wrong, but not themselves.
    Think it's closer to 8 weeks or so. Why didn't you bring it to the attention of the mods if the posting in the arghhh/yarrr thread?

    Yeah, you're right, I don't know many posters but I can create my opinion of them based on their online persona and your comment of me not being here a wet day is covered in an elitist mentality. Just because I'm not here as long as others, doesn't mean I should be excluded on any measures. This forum is still under the platform of boards and has to behave accordingly, it's not a hosted forum.

    BTW, I'm 19, I'm nowhere near the eldest of posters in here.


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