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Pug puppy wanted in time for Christmas

  • 29-10-2010 1:52pm
    #1
    ronaldo9
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭


    Hi,

    Is anyone or do know of anyone who is a reputable breeder of Pugs?

    I am looking to get one in time for Christmas and want to be well prepared. If anybody has any information it would be greatly appreciated.

    The Pug is wanted for a loving and caring home.

    Many thanks!
    Tagged:


Comments

  • #2
    Cherry Blossom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,972 ✭✭✭Cherry Blossom


    No reputable breeder would ever have puppies ready to go over christmas!


  • #3
    Discodog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,945 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    Even Donedeal are considering a Christmas puppy ban - anyone feel free to encourage them by emailing.

    Most of the UK media have banned these ads so breeders there don't bother.

    Be very wary of a Christmas puppy especially high value breeds like Pugs that, in any event, suffer major hereditary disorders. My friends have a Pug & the Vet told them that, on average, Pugs have the highest Vet bills of any breed - it's already had an expensive eye op !.


  • #4
    Chris_Heilong
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,974 ✭✭✭Chris_Heilong


    you have just openned a can of worms. A post like this will get totally flamed.


  • #5
    Discodog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,945 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    No one here is flaming. This is a board for the reasoned discussion of issues relating to animals & pets. Many posters know & have to deal with the fall out from Christmas puppies. The posts so far are just warning the OP of the pitfalls of buying a Christmas pup.


  • #6
    Saaron
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 614 ✭✭✭Saaron


    A Pug isn't just for Christmas, it's for life.

    You should really think about whether you want this just for Christmas or if you're ready to take on the job of looking after such a high maintenance dog.

    From my experience of them, they have a lot of medical fees, and really need to be constantly looked after. If you don't know about Pugs you could end up getting a badly bred dog with many health issues which can be life long things to deal with. And, not great for the dog's quality of life.

    The vet bills and other health costs are not cheap, but worth it if you're in it for the long run.

    This is coming from someone who has over 7 Pugs in the family.
    We have one rescued Pug, and most of the others were bred by us.
    We show two of them, but at the end of the day they're spoilt and absolutely loved to death! They rule the house pretty much at this stage. It is not cheap, and you have to be there a lot of the time.

    If you really ARE considering this, you should maybe wait till after the hype of Xmas is over. Maybe get out to one of the dog shows and meet some breeders of Pugs. Most would be pretty serious and have high standards so they SHOULD be well bred (in theory that is...).

    You'll get to know many people who can tell you where to begin.
    That's how we began, and we now breed ourselves, but rarely have litters.


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  • #7
    lrushe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,713 ✭✭✭lrushe


    As well as the fact that a responsible breeder won't sell their pups before Christmas most reputable breeders have a waiting list for their present pups. Pug litters wouldn't be very large so I would say any that are on the ground at the minute would be book already.


  • #8
    Cherry Blossom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,972 ✭✭✭Cherry Blossom


    Chris_Heilong wrote: »
    you have just openned a can of worms. A post like this will get totally flamed.

    As the OP has posted looking for help finding a reputable breeder I think its fair to assume he has good intentions ;)


  • #9
    liah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,750 ✭✭✭liah


    Dear lord, people, just because the OP wants a pup around Christmas does not mean they know literally nothing. Literally all it means is they want a pup around Christmas time. NOT that they don't know "a pup is for life, not just for Christmas" (how condescending can you get?), NOT that they haven't researched the breed, and NOT that they haven't a clue.

    They're looking for a reputable breeder, for the love of god can you not give them the benefit of the doubt?

    They don't need a lecture.


  • #10
    Mr. Presentable
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,496 ✭✭✭Mr. Presentable


    Why can't the OP have turkey like the rest of us?


  • #11
    Discodog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,945 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    adrenalinjunkie wrote: »
    As the OP has posted looking for help finding a reputable breeder I think its fair to assume he has good intentions ;)

    But any breeder that has produced pups for the Christmas market will not have good intentions & the pups may suffer as a result. The words "Reputable Breeder" & "Christmas Puppy" just do not go together.


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  • #12
    Cherry Blossom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,972 ✭✭✭Cherry Blossom


    Discodog wrote: »
    But any breeder that has produced pups for the Christmas market will not have good intentions & the pups may suffer as a result. The words "Reputable Breeder" & "Christmas Puppy" just do not go together.

    Yes, I was the first poster to say that. The point I was making was that as the OP was looking to go down the correct routes, he may not have been aware that reputable breeders don't have christmas puppies, or did know somewhere in his head but the penny didn't quite drop. People have continued to breed puppies for decades at christmas after the whole a puppy is for life not just for christmas campaign started and it would make perfect sence to someone who didn't have a very busy house over christmas, has been planning on getting a dog and has time off work at christmas to get one then. I 'hope' OP that the dog is not a present for a child as dogs are the responsibility of the adults in the house and the novelty very quickly wears off like every thing else kids get.


  • #13
    Discodog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,945 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    It's a bit like the spay thread in that responsible owners have to accept that they may be lumped in with the masses !. I recently advised someone here who wants to adopt a second dog that Christmas could be a good time if they have time off & are planning a quiet Christmas.

    Unfortunately we have to generalise to try & convey a message that will help to reduce the huge number of abandoned & unwanted dogs. I hope that any genuine owner would understand & accept this.

    The OP could of clarified the situation following their initial post. My guy was someone's Christmas present as was the little dog who joins us for every walk. He was in the house with the family last Christmas day - now he is ignored.


  • #14
    builttospill
    Registered Users Posts: 734 ✭✭✭builttospill


    liah wrote: »
    Dear lord, people, just because the OP wants a pup around Christmas does not mean they know literally nothing. Literally all it means is they want a pup around Christmas time. NOT that they don't know "a pup is for life, not just for Christmas" (how condescending can you get?), NOT that they haven't researched the breed, and NOT that they haven't a clue.

    They're looking for a reputable breeder, for the love of god can you not give them the benefit of the doubt?

    They don't need a lecture.

    Hear Hear,

    Again I'm just depressed by the volume of pathetic, beguiling and inadvertent trolling. Do you people not realise that your redundant replies will just have the opposite effect to what you want to achieve? (apart from self-serving satisfaction of course)

    A poster that comes here to ask a question like this will just be turned off and scared away by reactions like this and then they will go and source a dog themselves without seeking proper advice.

    Why don't y'all head down to the puppy farms with your "down with this sort of thing" placards and leave the "advice" to people who can actually help with the issue at hand?


  • #15
    Discodog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,945 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    builttospill wrote: »
    Hear Hear,

    Again I'm just depressed by the volume of pathetic, beguiling and inadvertent trolling. Do you people not realise that your redundant replies will just have the opposite effect to what you want to achieve? (apart from self-serving satisfaction of course)

    A poster that comes here to ask a question like this will just be turned off and scared away by reactions like this and then they will go and source a dog themselves without seeking proper advice.

    Why don't y'all head down to the puppy farms with your "down with this sort of thing" placards and leave the "advice" to people who can actually help with the issue at hand?

    Surely there has to be a balance. Do you want everyone to agree ?. Yes a couple of posts have made assumptions but the majority are helping the OP by pointing out the risks of buying a puppy that has been bred for Christmas & also the potential problems with the breed. The OP is at liberty to post but has not done so yet. Maybe they have had the breed before & are knowledgeable, maybe not.

    The facts are that thousands of people will scour the ads for a Christmas present pup & many of those will end up abandoned. If the OP has done even a little research they will know this. They should also know that people will expect the worse until they know better.

    A thread isn't just about the OP & their question. It evolves & becomes a discussion with different views & arguments. Surely that is why we are here. If the OP or anyone else wants uncontested opinion there is plenty available.

    I am in the course of trying to persuade advertisers to follow the voluntary UK advertising ban. If people can't advertise Christmas pups then they won't breed them.

    Why would a genuine person take offence at misguided comments when it is easy to clarify the situation & prove them to be unjustified ?. None of us know the posters here so we all assume, some for the better & some for worst. It is not up to us to cover every eventuality when the OP does not provide information. No animal lover is going to post the whereabouts of a Christmas pup until they know a lot more about the potential owner.


  • #16
    builttospill
    Registered Users Posts: 734 ✭✭✭builttospill


    Discodog wrote: »
    Why would a genuine person take offence at misguided comments when it is easy to clarify the situation & prove them to be unjustified ?. None of us know the posters here so we all assume, some for the better & some for worst. Surely it is not up to us to cover every eventuality when the OP does not provide information.

    A genuine person would most definitely take offence to this kind of nonsense. They are made to feel bad by keyboard warriors who are nothing but bullies. Sure I'm just an observer and I take offence to it while I know a lot of other people who have been turned off by this forum cos of the ridiculous arrogance of some.

    Yes, there has to be a balance when it comes to advice but for the most part I only see scorn.

    Now, I'm going off topic myself so I'm going to leave it at that. I've said all I want to and I've got cats to feed.


  • #17
    liah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,750 ✭✭✭liah


    If you can't tell whether or not the OP has experience, ASK THEM before going off on some self-serving tirade to make yourself look good in front of all the others.

    Try something like "I don't think many good breeders will have them in over Christmas, best to look well in advance or well after."

    or

    "Hey OP! If you're looking for any more info on pugs in general feel free to PM me, I have 6 of them so I can give you some tips if you'd like?"

    But not..

    "Have you done any research? I mean like, DUH, doesn't EVERYONE know that reputable breeders don't have them around Christmas! And pugs have soooo many health problems, anyone who wants to get one must just know absolutely nothing! And obviously, someone who wants one around christmas is clearly going to be a horrible owner and obviously hasn't considered that a pup is for life."

    That may be exaggerated but it's certainly how you're coming off, well-intentioned or not.

    What you people don't understand is this.

    1) The "bad" people won't listen to the information you give them anyway.
    2) The good-hearted people will ask for more informaton.

    No one-- I repeat, NO ONE-- enjoys a condescending lecture and I guarantee you that if you start on one, regardless of your intentions, it WILL NOT be well-received. If they want the information they will ask for it directly, but unless gross mistreatment is being shown as acceptable in the OP I seriously suggest keeping your lectures to yourselves. All it's going to do is drive more people away and driving more people away means that nobody is going to want to ask for help here.

    If no one wants to ask for help here that means a lot more animals are being mistreated.

    EDIT: Hah, in an odd way this post reminds me of putting anti-piracy ads in actual DVDs. "Hey, you just legally paid for this DVD! Now we're going to tell you why piracy is bad!" = "Hey, you're looking for a reputable breeder, so we're going to go ahead and tell you how misinformed you are based on little to no information!"

    Ridiculous.


  • #18
    **Vai**
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,302 ✭✭✭**Vai**


    @builttospill; Well said. Theres too much of this pointless drivel being thrown at genuine people who just ask for advice.


  • #19
    Hellrazer
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,822 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    liah wrote: »
    Dear lord, people, just because the OP wants a pup around Christmas does not mean they know literally nothing. Literally all it means is they want a pup around Christmas time. NOT that they don't know "a pup is for life, not just for Christmas" (how condescending can you get?), NOT that they haven't researched the breed, and NOT that they haven't a clue.

    They're looking for a reputable breeder, for the love of god can you not give them the benefit of the doubt?

    They don't need a lecture.

    I agree.The ongoing curse of this forum rears its head in another thread where a user who asks a question gets a lecture.

    Im going to edit out all the unhelpful/flaming posts later on and Im going to start doing this with every thread that this happens in from now on.


  • #20
    Discodog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,945 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    I wonder if, following the How is our driving thread, the Mods might allow this one to go off topic as it has clearly differed opinion & provides an opportunity to discuss a specific example rather than generalities.

    My argument is that when you start a thread you instigate an online discussion & invite opinion. Maybe there should be a separate category for people who just want answers like Yahoo etc.

    Saaron did mention the Dog not just for Christmas phrase but followed it up with experience from owning 7 pugs !. The phrase was mentioned once & every other post has actually contained advice.

    If we were to PM a poster it would defeat the point of Boards. If we want balance is there also not a risk that knowledgeable posters would be less willing to post for fear of being called bullies ?. We could actually lose a lot of valuable knowledge.

    You know of posters who are put off by "being bullied" & I know posters who are put off because of the reaction to criticism. It can't of escaped everyone's notice that virtually no rescues post here (EGAR & a couple of others excepted).

    If the "bad" people won't listen then it makes no difference what we say. Yes people could ask for more information but also a poster could see misunderstanding & chose to correct it. Either way if the poster does not clarify then people are bound to assume.

    You are commenting as if there have been torrents of abuse whereas I see a lot of helpful information not just for the OP but for the many others who read these threads.

    I am unaffected by the bully/cyberwarrior tag but other people may be.

    By the way I know the person who came up with "A Dog is not just for Christmas". The slogan now may well be "A Dog is never for Christmas".

    EDIT Hellrazer: rather than just editing or removing could you leave the comment in place but state your objection so that we all get a chance to comment.


  • #21
    Discodog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,945 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    Hellrazer wrote: »
    I agree.The ongoing curse of this forum rears its head in another thread where a user who asks a question gets a lecture.

    Im going to edit out all the unhelpful/flaming posts later on and Im going to start doing this with every thread that this happens in from now on.

    All the unhelpful posts ?. The vast majority offer good advice.

    As per my edit if we really want this forum to improve could you not remove comments but highlight them & allow a discussion of those points.

    Could we also clarify whether we are allowed to only address an OP's specific issue or answer points as they are made ie have a discussion ?.


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  • #22
    liah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,750 ✭✭✭liah


    I think you're seeing it so favourably because you're on the giving end, not the receiving end.

    Again, I recognize that this crap is borne of good intentions but it doesn't change the fact that it's patronizing, it's condescending, and it's probably putting more animals at risk than helping them considering an awful lot of people would take one look at this nonsense and go find another forum or, worse yet, just continue on anyway without the info they need.

    Nobody ever feels good when they ask a simple question and are instantly treated like a complete ignorant fool. This poster had the misfortune of wanting a puppy near Christmas. All they asked was if anyone knew of any reputable breeders.

    God forbid we actually just simply express the fact that it's unlikely to find a reputable breeder with litters around Christmas, no way! We have to attack this person (who has described their situation as loving and caring and that they were at least looking for an actual breeder) as if they are 100% an unresearched complete moron who knows literally nothing about anything.

    They didn't ask for your tips on pugs, they asked on tips as to where to find reputable breeders so they can add a pup to their loving, caring home. Answer the damn questions instead of showing off how much breed knowledge you have, this isn't a dick measuring contest.

    The answers would be suitable to an OP containing "lol hey dudes i wanna get a pug for my sister-brother's baby for the christmas break bt i'm guna throw it away when the holidays r done, its all just for a bit of a laugh rite. is there a pet store i can go to or sommat? thx xx," but the OP in this case certainly was nothing like that.

    Seriously, cop on like.

    EDIT: I wonder how many of these people learned through trial and error with their dogs or legitimately did research the crap out of them. I'd wager at least 70% of people posting grew up with a dog and learned organically and only researched after they'd already had an interest. How soon we forget, hm?


  • #23
    Discodog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,945 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    liah wrote: »
    I think you're seeing it so favourably because you're on the giving end, not the receiving end.

    People that give genuine advice here are often on the receiving end which is why they no longer post. Recently we had had situations where experts that are good enough to be called as witnesses in Court have been accused of being ignorant.

    What is wrong with providing comment on the breed ?. It was mentioned in the OP. Maybe others reading this thread, as many do, are considering a Pug & may not be aware of the pitfalls.

    The general opinion in the "How's are driving thread" was that things had got much better under Seamus's modding & he has seemed to prefer to take a back seat & let a discussion flow.

    Do you really want to reach a point where someone posts asking where to buy a monkey & everyone replies saying that Monkeys are cool & you can get them here !.

    No other forums that I have seen, with the exception of PI, seek to treat OP's with such reverence. If people trying to give advice are bullied off of this board that is just as bad as bullying an OP.

    Maybe it is just because some of us take the criticism & respond to it rather than hitting the "report post" button.


  • #24
    Whispered
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,772 ✭✭✭✭Whispered


    Funny that all of the agression in this thread is coming from the people accusing others of being bullies.....


  • #25
    liah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,750 ✭✭✭liah


    Discodog wrote: »
    People that give genuine advice here are often on the receiving end which is why they no longer post. Recently we had had situations where experts that are good enough to be called as witnesses in Court have been accused of being ignorant.

    What is wrong with providing comment on the breed ?. It was mentioned in the OP. Maybe others reading this thread, as many do, are considering a Pug & may not be aware of the pitfalls.

    The general opinion in the "How's are driving thread" was that things had got much better under Seamus's modding & he has seemed to prefer to take a back seat & let a discussion flow.

    Do you really want to reach a point where someone posts asking where to buy a monkey & everyone replies saying that Monkeys are cool & you can get them here !.

    No other forums that I have seen, with the exception of PI, seek to treat OP's with such reverence. If people trying to give advice are bullied off of this board that is just as bad as bullying an OP.

    Maybe it is just because some of us take the criticism & respond to it rather than hitting the "report post" button.

    You're missing the point. This forum needs to operate on a "answer the question, not what you assume the question to be" basis, imho.

    This isn't about "oh look at all the information we've provided, maybe someone will come along and read it and everyone will be happy yay!"

    Going off on a lecture only puts the OP into a defensive position and makes them less open and willing to accept advice. How do you feel when you're asking a question about something you've got general knowledge of and the person replies giving you an entire history of the subject and every single little detail about it in a massively condescending way assuming you're completely ignorant? It's not a nice feeling.

    If you want an information bank for people other than the OP to read, make a FAQ thread. If you want to actually ANSWER THE QUESTION in the OP, feel free. If you want to lecture, become a teacher.

    I'll say it again: all it is doing is turning away people who are genuinely looking for help with their issues. Once they're turned away, they're not coming back. This means that, by treating newcomers like ignoramuses and talking down to them, you're putting more animals at risk, not less.
    Whispered wrote: »
    Funny that all of the agression in this thread is coming from the people accusing others of being bullies.....

    I must have under 100 posts in the entirety of this forum. I'm aggressive now because I have been reluctant to bother saying anything in the past, but too many people have had issues with this forum and I'm sick of sitting around letting people up on their high horses get away with treating everyone around them like children, whether they realize they're doing it or not.

    I don't post here because I don't feel like having to explain the entirety of my history with animals each and every time I post so I don't have some self-righteous twat going on a rant about things I am very well aware of.

    I mean, what are you guys assuming-- unless they post a resume and cover letter with their question that they have absolutely no idea at all whatsoever?

    Answer the actual questions, not what you think the questions are, and don't make assumptions-- if you want an information bank, create a FAQ and put all your lectures there. That way, everyone's happy.


  • #26
    Whispered
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,772 ✭✭✭✭Whispered


    I really don't care why you are frustrated liah - but hope that in your frustration you can understand how rescues and people involved with rescue feel on this forum sometimes - your posting style is too agressive for me to really read WHAT you are saying - instead I'm reading how you are saying it and switching off iykwim.

    Is it necessary to call another poster a "self rightous twat"?


  • #27
    Discodog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,945 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    Whispered wrote: »
    I really don't care why you are frustrated liah - but hope that in your frustration you can understand how rescues and people involved with rescue feel on this forum sometimes - your posting style is too agressive for me to really read WHAT you are saying - instead I'm reading how you are saying it and switching off iykwim.

    Is it necessary to call another poster a "self rightous twat"?

    You forgot to add:

    Crap
    Bullies
    Arrogant
    Pathetic
    Troll

    So much for commenting on the post & not the poster !.


  • #28
    builttospill
    Registered Users Posts: 734 ✭✭✭builttospill


    Discodog wrote: »
    People that give genuine advice here are often on the receiving end which is why they no longer post. Recently we had had situations where experts that are good enough to be called as witnesses in Court have been accused of being ignorant.

    What is wrong with providing comment on the breed ?. It was mentioned in the OP. Maybe others reading this thread, as many do, are considering a Pug & may not be aware of the pitfalls.

    The general opinion in the "How's are driving thread" was that things had got much better under Seamus's modding & he has seemed to prefer to take a back seat & let a discussion flow.

    Do you really want to reach a point where someone posts asking where to buy a monkey & everyone replies saying that Monkeys are cool & you can get them here !.

    No other forums that I have seen, with the exception of PI, seek to treat OP's with such reverence. If people trying to give advice are bullied off of this board that is just as bad as bullying an OP.

    Maybe it is just because some of us take the criticism & respond to it rather than hitting the "report post" button.

    I can't believe I'm going to bother arguing with your nonsense but here goes-

    What is it you don't understand about what we are saying??? We are complaining about people not actually giving relevant advice. This problem is evident in this thread and many others on this forum. A person came on here asking where they could source a pug to get it in time for Christmas. Instead of giving suitable and relevant advice on the subject the person gets hounded and then runs away from the thread and probably into the arms of disreputable breeders.

    If people here have concerns about ethical matters in topics such as this then why don't they inform instead of bully? I mean is it not obvious that the OP is going to get a puppy regardless? In that case if you are so concerned about animal welfare would it not be in your best interests to tell the OP exactly what they should do with regards to finding reputable breeders?

    I would have thought this was completely obvious but evidently not to the moral panic brigade. As I have stated why not hassle the puppy farms instead? Would this not be of more use instead of hassling some innocent poster who needs to be informed rather than scared away.

    Nobody is saying you shouldn't give advice. It's just that I don't see advice. I see hateful trolling. Actual off-topic trolling irrelevant to the OP's question. If you can't see this then I'm afraid you'll have very little success with your perverse attempts to educate and there'll be no point in arguing with you anymore.

    I can't believe I'm still posting here. Talk abut lowering myself down to gutter level. I need a shower.


  • #29
    liah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,750 ✭✭✭liah


    Eh, out of curiosity where did I name and abuse any one poster? It's not personal abuse unless it's directed at a person. Mine's not directed at any one person, it's directed at the overall attitude.

    The most basic point is this:

    The OP asked for where to find a reputable breeder and was instead met with everything BUT an answer to the question.

    Answer the question and not what you assume the question to be and don't make assumptions about the poster unless given VALID reason to.

    Civil enough for you to read now?

    I can't believe I'm the one being demonized for telling people not to assume. Fantastic.


  • #30
    Discodog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,945 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    builttospill wrote: »
    I can't believe I'm going to bother arguing with your nonsense but here goes-

    What is it you don't understand about what we are saying??? We are complaining about people not actually giving relevant advice. This problem is evident in this thread and many others on this forum. A person came on here asking where they could source a pug to get it in time for Christmas.

    Nearly all the "advice" posts were relevant & included references to Pugs & Christmas so how were they off topic. I repeat are we only allowed to give an answer to a specific question ?. If so then Boards is dead.

    Posters have come here complaining about the conduct of others whilst hurling abuse themselves. You may see this as the gutter - I don't.


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  • #31
    builttospill
    Registered Users Posts: 734 ✭✭✭builttospill


    Oh yeah-one last thing with regards to your opinion that we are also bullies:

    Sometimes you have to stand up and bully the bullies for virtuosity to prevail.


  • #32
    Whispered
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,772 ✭✭✭✭Whispered


    liah wrote: »

    I can't believe I'm the one being demonized for telling people not to assume. Fantastic.
    Are you really going to come onto a forum - start an arguement - be very rude to a poster - call people names - accuse people of bullying - use offensive language - and then play the victim?


  • #33
    Discodog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,945 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    liah wrote: »
    :

    The OP asked for where to find a reputable breeder and was instead met with everything BUT an answer to the question.

    Answer the question and not what you assume the question to be and don't make assumptions about the poster unless given VALID reason to.

    Ok so you believe that people should just reply & say no more than "you will find lots in Donedeal" ?. Where else on Boards does this happen ?.

    The OP didn't get an answer because there is not an answer. The fact remains that no reputable breeder will have Christmas pups. We can't magic up a source.


  • #34
    Discodog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,945 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    builttospill wrote: »
    Oh yeah-one last thing with regards to your opinion that we are also bullies:

    Sometimes you have to stand up and bully the bullies for virtuosity to prevail.

    How do you know that we are not doing this ;)

    I just think that, what could be a fabulous source of information & discussion, is being denied a lot of input. I would love to see rescues, vets, legislators, spca's etc etc giving their input instead of running away. Some of them end up with threatening legal action rather than coming here to voice their views because of comment like this.


  • #35
    liah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,750 ✭✭✭liah


    Whispered wrote: »
    Are you really going to come onto a forum - start an arguement - be very rude to a poster - call people names - accuse people of bullying - use offensive language - and then play the victim?

    1) Name what poster I was rude to.
    2) Name who I called a name.
    3) Name who I called a bully.
    4) Language I don't care about. I could say "ah ye cnut, how are ye?" or "You are a vile, disgusting human being." Which would you be more offended by, the sentence where the word "cnut" was used? Or the one that implied you were a vile, disgusting human being? I know I'd be much more concerned about the latter. The words used mean nothing. It's about the intent.

    I was not rude to any one poster. I did not call any one poster any names and I'm fairly certain I didn't use the word bully in reference to any one poster. Just because I call an attitude self-righteous and condescending does in no way mean I'm attacking anyone personally.

    I'm allowed to disagree with things, you know.
    Discodog wrote: »
    Ok so you believe that people should just reply & say no more than "you will find lots in Donedeal" ?. Where else on Boards does this happen ?.

    The OP didn't get an answer because there is not an answer. The fact remains that no reputable breeder will have Christmas pups. We can't magic up a source.


    When on earth did I say that? I even gave an example of things that would make sense without assuming too much.

    All that had to be posted was "You'd be better off waiting til after Christmas, good breeders won't have pups around this time as too many people want them for the wrong reasons."

    Instead, they basically turned on the OP and implied that the OP knew nothing and only wanted a pup for the wrong reasons. That is assumption. Assumption is wrong.

    If the OP asks for more information, give them more information. But never, ever, ever assume something about someone's situation.

    It's innocent until proven guilty, everyone here seems to be operating on the inverse: guilty until proven innocent. Hardly fair.


  • #36
    Whispered
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,772 ✭✭✭✭Whispered


    liah wrote: »
    1) Name what poster I was rude to.
    2) Name who I called a name.
    3) Name who I called a bully.
    4) Language I don't care about. I could say "ah ye cnut, how are ye?" or "You are a vile, disgusting human being." Which would you be more offended by, the sentence where the word "cnut" was used? Or the one that implied you were a vile, disgusting human being? I know I'd be much more concerned about the latter. The words used mean nothing. It's about the intent.

    I'm not going to go back quoting you - you know what you said read it yourself. Are you trying to say you're not being agressive?

    Regarding language; Yes it is about intent and your intent was pretty obvious. To insult and belittle. Not to mention this forum can be a source of information to many people, including ones younger than yourself.

    EDIT: I'm not continuing this conversation because it will go nowhere and is so far off topic it's just silly (not to mention the fact dinner is ready!)- suffice to say that in trying to stick up for posters - and I'm sure your intentions are only good - you've been very insulting to posters - who, like you, are only trying to help.


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  • #37
    liah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,750 ✭✭✭liah


    Whispered wrote: »
    I'm not going to go back quoting you - you know what you said read it yourself. Are you trying to say you're not being agressive?

    Regarding language; Yes it is about intent and your intent was pretty obvious. To insult and belittle. Not to mention this forum can be a source of information to many people, including ones younger than yourself.

    EDIT: I'm not continuing this conversation because it will go nowhere and is so far off topic it's just silly (not to mention the fact dinner is ready!)- suffice to say that in trying to stick up for posters - and I'm sure your intentions are only good - you've been very insulting to posters - who, like you, are only trying to help.

    You're not going to go back quoting me because there is no case at all where I am attacking a poster over a post. Not a one. You're upset because I'm not being as flowery as everyone else, fine. That's personal preference.

    I am being aggressive because I'm sick of this attitude and it seriously bothers me that so many people have been turned away from this forum, meaning an awful lot of animals could have been helped out that may now not have the opportunity. I am being aggressive because nobody deserves to be treated like how they have been treated (I've been following this forum for 2 years, this is not the first time this has happened this week let alone in general).

    I have sat quiet long enough and that "A Puppy is for Life, Not Just Christmas" thing put me straight over the edge.

    The attitude needs to be checked at the door. I'm not arguing about just this thread, either. I'm arguing about the history of this forum. Nobody can deny that the issue comes up at least once a week, if not more. Nobody can deny that it's always the same issue. If the same issue is coming up weekly over a very extended period of time, don't you think it's about time we finally did something about it?

    Aggressive or not something needs to be done and quite often aggression is the only way people will take notice.


  • #38
    builttospill
    Registered Users Posts: 734 ✭✭✭builttospill


    Discodog wrote: »
    Ok so you believe that people should just reply & say no more than "you will find lots in Donedeal" ?. Where else on Boards does this happen ?.

    The OP didn't get an answer because there is not an answer. The fact remains that no reputable breeder will have Christmas pups. We can't magic up a source.

    See this is an example of why it's pointless arguing with you. Nobody is saying that. What you are doing now is generalising and twisting rhetoric to suit your argument. We are saying that posters should be informed instead of hounded. Why do you continue to say that the forum needs debate or else people will be told to go on done deal or if thay are looking for a monkey they will be told yeah great come here or whatever nonsense you spouted earlier.

    You are actually making stuff up. Can you not see this? Anyone reading this will be able to see this. Nobody wants to give the sort of advice you are accusing the forum of descending into. We want people to inform reasonably.

    The forum needs debate? Or course it does but if someone asks a simple question why can a suitable informative answer not be given?

    I'll ask you one more time-can you not see that this unhelpful criticism does not work? You've been told earlier by a mod that it doesn't. Countless other people have stated that it doesn't and I don't see the OP replying as is the case in other similar threads.


  • #39
    liah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,750 ✭✭✭liah


    Would just like to add, there's a big difference between someone starting a thread for discussion about a matter and someone starting a thread to get an answer for a question.

    I should hope most people are able to tell the difference. This was one of the latter cases.


  • #40
    dahat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,846 ✭✭✭✭dahat


    people must be so perfect in there own live's...........

    someone just asked a question/looked for info and all the righteous opinions came at him/her.......


  • #41
    dahat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,846 ✭✭✭✭dahat


    builttospill wrote: »
    The forum needs debate? Or course it does but if someone asks a simple question why can a suitable informative answer not be given?

    I'll ask you one more time-can you not see that this unhelpful criticism does not work? You've been told earlier by a mod that it doesn't. Countless other people have stated that it doesn't and I don't see the OP replying as is the case in other similar threads.

    hear hear(from my limited time on boards).
    sometime's people just want basic info/answers not opnions rammed into them by people who clearly wish to ram them into people.


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  • #42
    builttospill
    Registered Users Posts: 734 ✭✭✭builttospill


    liah wrote: »
    Would just like to add, there's a big difference between someone starting a thread for discussion about a matter and someone starting a thread to get an answer for a question.

    I should hope most people are able to tell the difference. This was one of the latter cases.

    It really is this simple and what we are calling for is quite simple yet the argument just escalates into farce. Tiresome just isn't the word...

    I'm off to stick my cat in the microwave out of pure anger*



    *Obviously a joke, but if the ridiculous Tubridy thread the other day is anything to go by I'll probably wake up tomorrow morning to an angry mob outside my house.

    This forum needs a tetanus injection.


  • #43
    Whispered
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,772 ✭✭✭✭Whispered


    It's a discussion board though - yes sometimes people are overzealous in how they give their opinions - but without opinions the forum wouldn't exist.

    I think the "hows our driving thread" is going very well and your opinions on how to improve the forum would be very helpful over there. I think the more people posting in it the better to get a good handle on what needs to be done. Starting fights on threads and passive agressive posting along the lines of "oh some people...." is not really going to achieve much.


  • #44
    Discodog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,945 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    The poster asked a question that did not have an answer therefore it had to result in a discussion. If you disagree with me & then other posters join you is that not hounding ?. That is what happens every day in virtually every forum. Some people appear to voice similar opinions & others oppose them.

    I keep wondering why all the grief apparently happens here yet I see far worse in many other Boards fora ?. Recently there have been some good discussions on pretty contentious issues with no mod input. Is it just linked to who clicks the report post button ?.


  • #45
    Cherry Blossom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,972 ✭✭✭Cherry Blossom


    Discodog wrote: »
    It's a bit like the spay thread in that responsible owners have to accept that they may be lumped in with the masses !. I recently advised someone here who wants to adopt a second dog that Christmas could be a good time if they have time off & are planning a quiet Christmas.

    Unfortunately we have to generalise to try & convey a message that will help to reduce the huge number of abandoned & unwanted dogs. I hope that any genuine owner would understand & accept this.

    The OP could of clarified the situation following their initial post. My guy was someone's Christmas present as was the little dog who joins us for every walk. He was in the house with the family last Christmas day - now he is ignored.

    I appreciate the fact that an awful lot of API threads come up near the top of the list when people google similar questions. However I also appreciate the fact that 1 single person (whom I am sure is now long gone) asked this particular question. This is one of the reasons why I was delighted to see mention of an FAQ section in the 'Hows our driving thread'. Lots of people have plenty to say on individual threads, but when someone starts a general information thread no-one has anything to say. For example that whole post on health issues pugs have. I'm just going to use this as an example but this was a thread I started with the intention of it being informative.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056028365

    The thread amounted to 17 posts in total, 9 where actually relevant to the topic, 1 highlighted 'designer breeds' and the rest were people pushing rescue dogs and debating on wether or not they had more or less health issues, wasn't really the point of the thread, it quickly lost interest and fizzled out, a lot of the people who make regular posts on threads like this about breed problems made no contribution, I don't know if this is because they didn't see the point of doing so or didn't see the thread. I think if we had an FAQ section (sooner rather than later) to point people in the direction of, all would be necessary would be to link to the relevant posts with a brief note saying 'some relevant info on the breed here for you for information purposes', rather than giving a lecture on breed and health issues. Everyone would get their point across without it being seen as condescending, agressive or whatever else and every thread wouldn't errupt like this one has done and it hasn't helped anyone. Incidently I thought it was a perfectly acceptable thread till everyone starting arguing with each other. Just my 2 cents worth, don't kill me anyone!:P


  • #46
    liah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,750 ✭✭✭liah


    Discodog wrote: »
    The poster asked a question that did not have an answer therefore it had to result in a discussion. If you disagree with me & then other posters join you is that not hounding ?. That is what happens every day in virtually every forum. Some people appear to voice similar opinions & others oppose them.

    I keep wondering why all the grief apparently happens here yet I see far worse in many other Boards fora ?. Recently there have been some good discussions on pretty contentious issues with no mod input. Is it just linked to who clicks the report post button ?.

    Yes, it did have an answer. A very simple one that I've provided the answer to many times.

    "You're unlikely to find a reputable breeder with litters around Christmas because too often they'd fall into the wrong hands. You'd be best waiting til after Christmas."

    Simple, doesn't assume the OP knows nothing yet gives the reasons why there aren't any good breeders with pups around this time. Would that have been so hard? Really?

    Also, I've said this before and I'll say it again: there is a MASSIVE difference between a topic for discussion and a topic in which a person is asking a simple question.

    The pug thread just needed a simple answer. They asked for information regarding reputable breeders who may have pups around Christmas. They did not ask what anyone's opinion was on whether or not it's right to get a pup near Christmas. They did not ask what the breed strengths and weaknesses are. If you want to have a discussion thread about all these things, by all means, start one! But don't hijack a thread just to sit there and lecture them on things they didn't ask about because you ASSUME they're the wrong sort of people.


  • #47
    Cherry Blossom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,972 ✭✭✭Cherry Blossom


    Discodog wrote: »
    The poster asked a question that did not have an answer therefore it had to result in a discussion.

    I believe it did have an answer, and was given in the first reply, why not wait for the OP to come back and give or ask for more information before assuming it is wanted or needed. The state the thread is in now, if I was a newcommer I wouldn't be reading this post I'm currently typing as I'd have long abandoned it. Personally I believe the argument started here:
    Chris_Heilong wrote: »
    you have just openned a can of worms. A post like this will get totally flamed.

    At this point people start looking for underlying meanings of posts that may well not exist or have been intended ;) This post served no purpose in this thread and was the first Off Topic post!


  • #48
    Whispered
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,772 ✭✭✭✭Whispered


    adrenalinjunkie wrote: »
    Off Topic post!

    You're right adrenalinjunkie - OP I'm sorry for being involved in your thread being pulled off topic. I hope you understand that everyone on the thread are just trying to help.

    If you were hoping to get a dog as a gift I'm sure your probably disappointed that it would be difficult if not impossible to find a good breeder willing to let a pup go near christmas. Could you buy all of the things associated with a dog, leads, bowl, blankets etc and put your name down for a litter due after christmas and get a pic of the mother. You could give the dog things and the picture to your giftee and tell them that because it was important to you to get a dog from a good breeder you didn't want to take a christmas puppy - but you have one booked for them for the new year.

    As an animal lover I'd be so touched if someone thought of doing that for me instead of buying from a less than great breeder.


  • #49
    Discodog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,945 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    adrenalinjunkie wrote: »
    Incidently I thought it was a perfectly acceptable thread till everyone starting arguing with each other. Just my 2 cents worth, don't kill me anyone!:P

    Yeah I thought that too. I think that most of us believed that API was doing well of late. We have managed to have some good discussions with strongly opposing views.


  • #50
    Hellrazer
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,822 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    Im away for the evening but I`ll post my views on this thread later today/tonight.

    The way I see it is that I agree 100% with the sentiment that a dog shouldnt be bought as a xmas present/at xmas but Im with Liah on this that the way the original posters questions were answered is just getting out of hand.

    The thread should have really ended with "a reputable breeder will not have pups over the xmas period"

    But look at the state this thread is in now.

    Im locking it for now and Ill post my thoughts on the feedback thread when I get a minute.


This discussion has been closed.
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