What can we sell or close to save on spending?

Lenny Lovett · 28-10-2010 10:54AM #1

Having a chat with a couple of colleagues last night about potential to rationalise current Government expenditure, two Semi States came up. RTE and Are Lingus.

RTE Now that we have two independent national radio stations, five regionals and at least one independent station in each county do we really need to fund four state radio stations? Could we afford to just keep Radio 1 and either offer for sale the other three or shut them down? With RTE TV, when RTE 2 started we had virtually no other TV stations available to much of Ireland that were unable to receive UK signals but now most homes have access to TV3 and hundreds of other channels and, to be fair most of the non home produced content is available on the other channels so do we need to continue funding RTE2. Can we afford TnaG at the moment? If it is necessary should we be looking to the EU for funding for it as it is a very niche product? In excess of €200 million of state funding goes to RTE which I believe would be far better used in many other areas right now.

Aer Lingus I think it's high time the Government offloaded it's shares in Aer Lingus. The days of state owned Airlines are long gone and,again, the value of the shares could be better used elsewhere. Ryanair should be allowed to buy it out if they wish however the chances are that Ryanair are no longer interested in a full takeover as they have achieved their goal of scaring away any other potential buyers as nobody else would want to jump into bed with them as co-owners.

donkey balls · 28-10-2010 12:07PM

To sell the govt stake in EI would be crazy it was not that long ago that EI/BA had a duoply on our little island charging upto £300 punts for a flight to London untill the arrival of Ryanair.
The slots in Heathrow are worth alot if EI was to be sold to a hedge fund company our some other airline they would more than likely asset strip EI(now what company did that happen to not so long ago :eek:) and we would be left more than likely with less flights out of Ireland with higher fares.

sealgaire · 28-10-2010 12:26PM

TG4 are completly independent now and none of RTEs money goes to it. So you can stop worrying about that

Lenny Lovett · 28-10-2010 12:34PM

sealgaire wrote: »

TG4 are completly independent now and none of RTEs money goes to it. So you can stop worrying about that

Really? Since when and how does that work with them providing the Nuacht content for RTE TV and Radio? Also what's the story with the money RTE used to give them as a subsidy (in excess of €10million per annum)? Where does that money come from now? How do they finance themselves?

Lenny Lovett · 28-10-2010 12:42PM

donkey balls wrote: »

To sell the govt stake in EI would be crazy it was not that long ago that EI/BA had a duoply on our little island charging upto £300 punts for a flight to London untill the arrival of Ryanair.
The slots in Heathrow are worth alot if EI was to be sold to a hedge fund company our some other airline they would more than likely asset strip EI(now what company did that happen to not so long ago :eek:) and we would be left more than likely with less flights out of Ireland with higher fares.

You can hardly compare then and now. Back then in the days of the Duopoly there just wasn't as many Airlines. Costs were way higher (relatively) to today. If EI disappeared in the morning there would be plenty of contenders clambering to step into the breach so a lack of competition is (IMO) hardly credible.

sealgaire · 28-10-2010 12:44PM

Dunno bout the news content but that subsidy was stopped about 5 years ago. They raise their own revenue via advertising etc, you know, like a tv station . . . .;)

senordingdong · 28-10-2010 12:45PM

Lenny Lovett wrote: »

In excess of €200 million of state funding goes to RTE .

And half of that is in wages.

+1 on RTE & Aer Lingues.

(p.s., why do people abberviate Aer Lingus as EI?)

mikemac · 28-10-2010 12:47PM

senordingdong wrote: »

(p.s., why do people abberviate Aer Lingus as EI?)

The same reason we post FR for Ryanair

Head over to the Aviation forum

Gurgle · 28-10-2010 12:48PM

1) FÀS
2) The Senate
3) RTE
4) HSE

Close the first 2, privatize the second 2.

Lenny Lovett · 28-10-2010 12:58PM

sealgaire wrote: »

Dunno bout the news content but that subsidy was stopped about 5 years ago. They raise their own revenue via advertising etc, you know, like a tv station . . . .;)

Not true at all. Please see this link to the RTE Annual report 2009:
http://www.rte.ie/about/pdfs/RTE_annual_report_%202009_eng.pdf
particularly page 78. It shows a cost to RTE last year of €10.52million for TnaG programming and €73k for Transmission. Now, I know that most if not all of that comes from the licence fee but, as you say: "They raise their own revenue via advertising etc, you know, like a tv station . . . ."... Maybe they should and save us having to pay for something most of us don't use.

Lenny Lovett · 28-10-2010 01:03PM

Gurgle wrote: »

1) FÀS
2) The Senate
3) RTE
4) HSE

Close the first 2, privatize the second 2.

Absolutely I agree with you about Fás and the Senate. Both a massive waste of money.

Today Mary Coughlan has announced that she's starting a new version of Fás in the new year. Another money pit to train people for building skills.... Nobody told her there's not much building going on I guess...

The Senate.... well, has it any redeeming factors? None I can think of. As I stated at the start many departments within RTE could and should be sold off as they are valuable assets in the right hands and could be a nice earner for the exchequer.

Now, The HSE.... I wonder what's more sick, the Patients or the system? They need to outsource the Management, Admin, Catering, Janitorial and Transport sections post haste.

Any other ideas?

Denerick · 28-10-2010 01:29PM

A billion could be sliced off public service admin costs in the HSE and the Civil Service without any serious damage to frontline services. The inefficiency in public sector administration is staggering, private sector companies have to work with half the bureaucratic resources to deliver twice as good a service.

In terms of the rest, the dole will suffer big cuts in the region of 20% over 4 years, and pensions will be cut also. This will create a deflationary spiral, but if we can reduce the level of expenditure in this country it will boost productivity (Especially with a fundamental overhaul of the bureaucracy, there is scope for billions of savings at relatively little pain) and it will also improve our comparative advantage. Deflation may well become a good thing. This great correction is our greatest chance of ever becoming an industrial exporting power once again.

BOHtox · 28-10-2010 01:29PM

The social cost of selling RTE would be bigger than the economic cost.
As for Aer Lingus, I don't think we need 25% maybe 20%. Selling that would be around €60 million.

Do we need to have a share in ESB and Bord Gais?
I'd sell one of them.

I'd also merge, sell and close quangos until there is only about 100( 96 less than present)

magicbastarder · 28-10-2010 01:31PM

could we sell cavan?

BOHtox · 28-10-2010 01:35PM

magicbastarder wrote: »

could we sell cavan?

Sell Cavan and Monaghan to the North! sure

senordingdong · 28-10-2010 01:44PM

BOHtox wrote: »

Sell Cavan and Monaghan to the North! sure

Are ya mad!?

No-one would buy those dumps?

OhNoYouDidn't · 28-10-2010 01:44PM

Close Anglo and we don't need to have this debate.

Lenny Lovett · 28-10-2010 01:55PM

BOHtox wrote: »

The social cost of selling RTE would be bigger than the economic cost.

How do you mean "social cost"? I don't believe RTE as a whole should be sold or closed. I believe we only now need Radio 1 and RTE 1 TV. The rest are unnecessary luxuries that would most likely thrive in private ownership and be a whole lot cheaper to run as well, given that a private entity would trim out all the excess 'fat' that RTE are carrying currently. Also, there is the value of the land they are occupying at Montrose. It would also cut down the cost requirement of a TV Licence to about €65 given that RTE1 TV and Radio 1 currently gets about half the lcience fee. It would also men that RTE get to keep their biggest Ad revenue and listener/viewer vehicles and concentrate on the quality home produced programming and sport and let private enterprise pump out the cheap imports etc.

BOHtox wrote: »

As for Aer Lingus, I don't think we need 25% maybe 20%. Selling that would be around €60 million.

Why keep any of it?

BOHtox wrote: »

Do we need to have a share in ESB and Bord Gais?
I'd sell one of them.

They could and should keep the grid/networks section of ESB as state ownership of the essential infrastructure is crucial. All other parts could and should be sold off. That would be worth a tidy sum. Let's face it our Government has no reason to be woning commercial enterprises as they don't have an ounce of business sense between the whole lot of them.

BOHtox wrote: »

I'd also merge, sell and close quangos until there is only about 100( 96 less than present)

I don't think a specific number should be put on how many Quangos should survive (as long as they leave OscarB's alone

!!). They should just shut down the unnecessary ones and, again, trim the excess on the survivors. The ones that feel the need to maintain offices all over the place when just one would do.

troposphere · 28-10-2010 02:03PM

Air Corps

Einhard · 28-10-2010 02:11PM

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Close Anglo and we don't need to have this debate.

We're currently spending €20 billion a year more than we take in. With or without Anglo, we need to have this debate.

Einhard · 28-10-2010 02:22PM

In relation to RTE, I have to admit that I have a bit of a soft spot for Bog 1 and Bog 2. The fact is that, for the amount of money RTE receives, it provides a valuable service. TV3 is all well and good, but a private entity in this market just wouldn't have the funds to produce the type of high quality programming that RTE are capable of. For example, I've been watching an excellent documentary on the re-introduction of eagles over the past few weeks. I also watched the Voices from the Grave programme on RTE 1 the other night. Neither of these, and many more besides, would have been shown were RTE in private owenership, dependent on advertising alone. An independent state needs to have a media that, to an extent, reflects the nation, and I don't think that can be provided either by cheap foreign imports such as the X Factor, or even cheaper home made productions that would be the norm in a body solely dependent on advertising. I could see the merit however, in getting rid of RTE2, since much of its programming is similar to TV3 or C4. Having said that though, many elderly people in the country only have Bog 1 and 2, so removing one would drastically reduce their viewing options.

Also, the €200 million currently spent on RTE doesn't come from direct taxation, and thus wouldn't help the budget situation were it abolished.

sealgaire · 28-10-2010 02:22PM

Lenny Lovett wrote: »

Not true at all. Please see this link to the RTE Annual report 2009:
http://www.rte.ie/about/pdfs/RTE_annual_report_%202009_eng.pdf
particularly page 78. It shows a cost to RTE last year of €10.52million for TnaG programming and €73k for Transmission. Now, I know that most if not all of that comes from the licence fee but, as you say: "They raise their own revenue via advertising etc, you know, like a tv station . . . ."... Maybe they should and save us having to pay for something most of us don't use.

Did you really go off searching for that.?

Most of us don't use A&E either so that reasoning isn't much of an argument IMO

Lenny Lovett · 28-10-2010 02:41PM

sealgaire wrote: »

Did you really go off searching for that.? Most of us don't use A&E either so that reasoning isn't much of an argument IMO

Maybe not but it proves that TnaG isn't self funding at all. And is it worth €10 million of subvention? I don't think so.

MagicSean · 28-10-2010 03:48PM

I think we should sue NTR for the money they got for the M50 buyout. They couldn't hold up their end of the bargain so they were bought out. It's ridiculous. The contract should have been cancelled and control reverted to the government.

Jaysoose · 28-10-2010 04:16PM

RTE - any organisation that can pay Joe duffy 350k plus a year for the his dross needs to take a long look at the books.

Avgas · 28-10-2010 04:52PM

Bord Gas could be sold to the Russians/Gazprom. The market valuation would be between 1bn-2bn...but being conservative you might get between Euro 500-800m minimum for it. There was mention of it an recent edition of Business & Finance. Apparently Bord Gas also have a cash pile-of several hundred million euro. Gazprom have been looking for a corporate vehicle to enter the lucrative domestic western gas sales business which gives them a revenue stream.....they would possibly use it to enter the UK and NI markets..

Not perfect but this an EMERGENCY.

donkey balls · 28-10-2010 05:08PM

Lenny Lovett wrote: »

You can hardly compare then and now. Back then in the days of the Duopoly there just wasn't as many Airlines. Costs were way higher (relatively) to today. If EI disappeared in the morning there would be plenty of contenders clambering to step into the breach so a lack of competition is (IMO) hardly credible.

Yep there would be plenty of other airlines who would operate out of Dub:rolleyes: as some one who has worked in the industry(non EI employee). i have seen other lo cost airlines arrive in Ireland onlly to be lashed out of it by Ryanair,then once their gone ryanair cut down on the flight frequency that the other lo cost operator was flying to.
The point i am trying to make is that EI have extremely good slots into Heathrow if they are to be bought out by another airline/hedge fund company,I could see EI been asset stripped bit like the way rambo burke sold off our gas fields:eek:.

cyclopath2001 · 28-10-2010 06:01PM

so-called 'Decentralisation'

Stop it now.

Easier to redeploy staff if they all work in the same city.

oppenheimer1 · 28-10-2010 06:24PM

Lenny Lovett wrote: »

You can hardly compare then and now. Back then in the days of the Duopoly there just wasn't as many Airlines. Costs were way higher (relatively) to today. If EI disappeared in the morning there would be plenty of contenders clambering to step into the breach so a lack of competition is (IMO) hardly credible.

I doubt it. Ryanair has the cash to smother out any competition on any route. They use this tactic all the time.

The Heathrow slots are a strategic state asset and should not be sold.

oppenheimer1 · 28-10-2010 06:26PM

BOHtox wrote: »

The social cost of selling RTE would be bigger than the economic cost.
As for Aer Lingus, I don't think we need 25% maybe 20%. Selling that would be around €60 million.

Do we need to have a share in ESB and Bord Gais?
I'd sell one of them.

I'd also merge, sell and close quangos until there is only about 100( 96 less than present)

The ESB and Bord Gáis generate dividends for the government.

donkey balls · 28-10-2010 06:34PM

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

The ESB and Bord Gáis generate dividends for the government.

800 million euro a year the ESB pay the govt, as for Ryanair MOL flew over to Frankfurt Hahn this week to announce that Ryanair will be pulling out of the airport.

What can we sell or close to save on spending?

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