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If you found out your girlfriend was a transexual what would you do?

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Comments

  • #152
    Cavehill Red
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    gurramok wrote: »
    Huh? They think and behave like women, why is that offensive to you?

    It isn't offensive to me.
    I'm simply asserting the reality that they aren't actually women.
    gurramok wrote: »
    Now, why are you defending one transition of human to animal and yet are abhorrent of an intra-human transition?

    I'm highlighting your inconsistency and hypocrisy in this regard.
    If you believe MTF TG people are women, then you must also believe that Cat Man is a tiger.

    I don't believe either.


  • #153
    L.Jenkins
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,242 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    fonecrusher1 wrote: »
    Can't have a child with a tranny can ya? Get out of that one.

    Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_reassignment_surgery

    Under the heading results specifically.
    Sisko wrote: »
    I'd like to know what you think of my posts, I'd rather discusses this properly then and not have it ruined by trolls.

    Ask what you wish and I'll discuss it.


  • #154
    Kasabian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,688 ✭✭✭Kasabian


    ItsThatManAgain wrote: »
    Well before any person can embark on a sex change, extensive counselling is required and a horrendous amount of appointments with Psychiatrists. Only when there is certainty that hormones is suitable on a case by case basis. Gender Identity Disorder is a recognised condition and Psychiatrist will over appointments to recieve hormones. As for surgery, examination is even more exhausting. Sadly most people fail to realise that transsexuality is apart of human diversity.

    Transsexuality is not a phenomenon either. It's been around alot longer than our so called Western society.

    Agreed, but the question is in regards to the transexual entering into a relationship with someone, who in the OP's scenario believes, is a woman and then discovering that the person was originally a different gender. Do you believe that the transexual is entitled to keep this from their partner because they feel that they are a woman or should they be open about it from the get go?

    Personally I would have an issue with discovering the fact later as I would believe I was being decieved.


  • #155
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    We live in an age where, in Western society at least, it is possible to live many different types of lifestyle as one chooses. Given that the paradigm of the butch, heterosexual male is no longer as universal as it once was, it is now possible for effeminate men to live openly as they wish.

    It seems to me that directing people via counselling to accept who they are in that manner would be preferable to reaching for the scalpel, silicone tits and hormones.

    No one can change their genetics. If you were born male, no amount of cosmetic intervention is going to change that.

    It seems to me that massive amounts of hormones and invasive surgery are not the answer to the question of finding happiness for people who believe they are 'trapped in the wrong body.'

    Teaching them to accept themselves as they are, and permitting them to live as they wish would be less invasive and more successful at producing happiness, I suspect.

    And counselling directs they get sex changes, do you want the councillors sacked?
    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    It isn't offensive to me.
    I'm simply asserting the reality that they aren't actually women.

    I'm highlighting your inconsistency and hypocrisy in this regard.
    If you believe MTF TG people are women, then you must also believe that Cat Man is a tiger.

    I don't believe either.

    Why are you so against said transexuals realising their dream from birth?

    Why are they not women, pleas explain this unusual viewpoint.
    sonic85 wrote: »
    dude hes not defending anything! hes comparing both situations! you might say theyre radically different but theyre not really - the premise is the same

    Since when should transexuals be locked up in a zoo?!


  • #156
    L.Jenkins
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,242 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    Teaching them to accept themselves as they are, and permitting them to live as they wish would be less invasive and more successful at producing happiness, I suspect.

    Unfortunately, Counselling cannot allieviate such a condition as GID. I've tried, believe me. If that statement is not convincing, then the number of suicides carried out by people with GID might be.
    Kasabian wrote: »
    Personally I would have an issue with discovering the fact later as I would believe I was being decieved.

    Firstly, imagine if it we're you that had a sex change. Forget the crude and attempt at being funny remarks, when is the best time to tell someone you've had a sex change?


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  • #157
    Sisko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,910 ✭✭✭Sisko


    gurramok wrote: »
    On what basis Oh Wise One?

    Just because your backward 19th Century views were objected to in posts, your last card is to accuse me of been a troll, not once but twice?

    How about debating the subject instead of lashing out in the middle of the night?;)
    ItsThatManAgain wrote: »



    Ask what you wish and I'll discuss it.

    I was just wondering if anything I said was offensive to you. Your debating with people about the ideas of people being born in the wrong bodies (to put it simply and bluntly) where as I do accept that idea, I don't think its unreasonable for people who are attracted to the opposite sex seek out the opposite sex for a partnership without being viewed as discriminatory for not finding those born with the wrong body sexually attractive (with or without said body being augmented to appear as the opposite gender)


  • #158
    Misanthrope
    Closed Accounts Posts: 613 ✭✭✭Misanthrope


    I would immediately go on the defensive and inform them that I am also a transexual and that when I was a girl I was ten times hotter and had much better fashion sense.Then I'd burn all it's shoes and pour rotting fish oil on all it's clothes.Then I'd tell it's parents and extended family and demand compensation to stop me from launching an internet smear/revenge campaign.

    Sugar in gas tanks , slashed tyres and the usual shebang after that I suppose


  • #159
    sonic85
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,459 ✭✭✭sonic85


    gurramok wrote: »
    Since when should transexuals be locked up in a zoo?!

    you are a funny man. then you wonder why people arent taking you seriously on this thread.


  • #160
    Guill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,332 ✭✭✭Guill


    gurramok wrote: »
    Eh, show us examples of how a human became a tiger please?.

    Eh, show me an example of how a man can become a woman.
    FFS


  • #161
    Sisko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,910 ✭✭✭Sisko


    Misanthrope wrote: »
    I would immediately go on the defensive and inform them that I am also a transexual and that when I was a girl I was ten times hotter and had much better fashion sense.Then I'd burn all it's shoes and pour rotting fish oil on all it's clothes.Then I'd tell it's parents and extended family and demand compensation to stop me from launching an internet smear/revenge campaign.

    Sugar in gas tanks , slashed tyres and the usual shebang after that I suppose

    Jaysus....

    sonic85 wrote: »
    you are a funny man. then you wonder why people arent taking you seriously on this thread.

    Just put him on ignore, its pointless debating a troll.


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  • #162
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Sisko wrote: »
    I was just wondering if anything I said was offensive to you. Your debating with people about the ideas of people being born in the wrong bodies (to put it simply and bluntly) where as I do accept that idea, I don't think its unreasonable for people who are attracted to the opposite sex seek out the opposite sex for a partnership without being viewed as discriminatory for not finding those born with the wrong body sexually attractive (with or without said body being augmented to appear as the opposite gender)

    So you backtrack now that you met a real life TS on boards? Hope you learnt something Sisko instead of labelling people as wind-ups!:mad::)


  • #163
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,079 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    Careful now


  • #164
    Cavehill Red
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    ItsThatManAgain wrote: »
    Unfortunately, Counselling cannot allieviate such a condition as GID. I've tried, believe me. If that statement is not convincing, then the number of suicides carried out by people with GID might be.

    There has been quite a few post-op suicides too, not to mention more than a few cases of regret, indicating to me that in many of these cases the issue of the individual's happiness was not resolved by surgery and hormones and cosmetic treatments.

    The fact that a child can assert they think they're the wrong gender and quickly enter a medical pathway to castration (12 was an age mentioned recently about one case) is, to my mind, very wrong.

    If the answer is helping people to feel happy about who they are and comfortable in their own skin, then counselling should be directional in that regard.

    Currently, the counselling merely functions as a methodology to ensure that medics who green-light castrations don't face negligence or malpractice suits for doing so.


  • #165
    L.Jenkins
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,242 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    Sisko wrote: »
    I was just wondering if anything I said was offensive to you. Your debating with people about the ideas of people being born in the wrong bodies (to put it simply and bluntly) where as I do accept that idea, I don't think its unreasonable for people who are attracted to the opposite sex seek out the opposite sex for a partnership without being viewed as discriminatory for not finding those born with the wrong body sexually attractive (with or without said body being augmented to appear as the opposite gender)

    I find most of this thread offensive. It is possible to have the wrong body, it's to do with too much exposure to androgyne during gestation, where the mind develops as female and the body as male.

    It is possible to be attracted to a transsexual, but the real issue is when to be open about it, which is a serious dilema for Trans people. Imagine it from my perspective. If I tell the wrong person I'm trans, they could potentially kill me for that and no other reason. So would you feel telling someone straight out or waiting.


  • #166
    fonecrusher1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,976 ✭✭✭fonecrusher1


    Sisko wrote: »
    Jaysus....


    The second i seen the thread title i knew it would be a sh!tstorm of accusations & counter accusations.:pac:


  • #167
    alwaysadub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,554 ✭✭✭✭alwaysadub


    fonecrusher1 wrote: »
    The second i seen the thread title i knew it would be a sh!tstorm of accusations & counter accusations.:pac:

    How right you are!


  • #168
    Cavehill Red
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    gurramok wrote: »
    And counselling directs they get sex changes, do you want the councillors sacked?

    No, I'd like to see them directing their counselling towards helping people accept who they are WITHOUT surgery.
    gurramok wrote: »
    Why are you so against said transexuals realising their dream from birth?

    I'm not. But they're not women.
    Why are you so against Cat Man realising HIS dream from birth?
    gurramok wrote: »
    Why are they not women, pleas explain this unusual viewpoint.

    Nothing unusual about it. It's basic science. On the chromosomal level, the fundamental level of life deep in our DNA, they are male and that cannot be changed by a few snips, long hair and some hormones.


  • #169
    L.Jenkins
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,242 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    There has been quite a few post-op suicides too, not to mention more than a few cases of regret, indicating to me that in many of these cases the issue of the individual's happiness was not resolved by surgery and hormones and cosmetic treatments.

    This typically occurs, because the patient never resolved the psychological issues they've had prior to transition. But suicide is a consequence of many things, acceptence being one. On the note of transitioning being wrong for someone, hormones are not permanent, surgery is.


  • #170
    Kasabian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,688 ✭✭✭Kasabian


    ItsThatManAgain wrote: »
    Firstly, imagine if it we're you that had a sex change. Forget the crude and attempt at being funny remarks, when is the best time to tell someone you've had a sex change?

    Where have I been crude?

    To be respectful I will attempt to asnswer your question, not with a question but with an opinion.

    When it looks like a relationship may be forming. As with all human interaction I believe greatly in honesty, often to my own detrement.


  • #171
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Guill wrote: »
    Eh, show me an example of how a man can become a woman.
    FFS

    Have you not heard of Gender Identity Disorder? Have you not researched this topic at all?
    Sisko wrote: »
    Just put him on ignore, its pointless debating a troll.

    Eh, why? You cannot refute posts as you know you are in the wrong and accuse me for a fifth time without evidence of been a troll, so who is the one here ignoring other posters views?!


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  • #172
    Cavehill Red
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    ItsThatManAgain wrote: »
    This typically occurs, because the patient never resolved the psychological issues they've had prior to transition. But suicide is a consequence of many things, acceptence being one. On the note of transitioning being wrong for someone, hormones are not permanent, surgery is.

    I entirely agree with you. That's why I'm opposed to children undergoing such operations. If an adult chooses of their own free will to be castrated, that's their adult choice.

    We're in agreement that cosmetic changes including surgery doesn't always resolve the identity issues that some people face. That's why I'd rather see directional counselling towards helping people accept themselves.


  • #173
    L.Jenkins
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,242 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    But they're not women.

    Define women without using biology!
    Kasabian wrote: »
    When it looks like a relationship may be forming. As with all human interaction I believe greatly in honesty, often to my own detrement.

    Thats a fair point. Do you fear getting stabbed or killed for being honest though?


  • #174
    Cavehill Red
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    gurramok wrote: »
    so who is the one here ignoring other posters views?!

    That would be you.

    Specifically, you've been ignoring the question I put to you four times: why is a man who undergoes surgery to look like a woman female, but a man who undergoes surgery to look feline NOT a tiger?


  • #175
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    No, I'd like to see them directing their counselling towards helping people accept who they are WITHOUT surgery.

    How on earth is that possible in that they are women deep inside and act and think like women?

    Why deprive them? What have you against them?
    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    I'm not. But they're not women.
    Why are you so against Cat Man realising HIS dream from birth?

    Catman ain't moving to another human and growing a tail, can you not see this?
    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    Nothing unusual about it. It's basic science. On the chromosomal level, the fundamental level of life deep in our DNA, they are male and that cannot be changed by a few snips, long hair and some hormones.

    Huh? How does the male body signify how the man inside thinks? This one I have to hear.


  • #176
    Cavehill Red
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    ItsThatManAgain wrote: »
    Define women without using biology!

    Don't be silly. Gender is inherently biological.


  • #177
    Kasabian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,688 ✭✭✭Kasabian


    ItsThatManAgain wrote: »
    Thats a fair point. Do you fear getting stabbed or killed for being honest though?

    I don't understand the question unless you are alluding to it being a fear held by transexuals who give their history.

    Personally I don't fear being stabbed or killed for anything I do in my life.


  • #178
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    That would be you.

    Specifically, you've been ignoring the question I put to you four times: why is a man who undergoes surgery to look like a woman female, but a man who undergoes surgery to look feline NOT a tiger?

    Ah here, its been explained to you many times in countless posts. Firstly, there is no procedure to make a man look like a cat and you cannot surely compare transgendered people to the animal world? Thats crazy logic!


  • #179
    L.Jenkins
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,242 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    I entirely agree with you. That's why I'm opposed to children undergoing such operations. If an adult chooses of their own free will to be castrated, that's their adult choice.

    We're in agreement that cosmetic changes including surgery doesn't always resolve the identity issues that some people face. That's why I'd rather see directional counselling towards helping people accept themselves.

    Kim Petras started at 12, but she was an exceptional case and her process required court order. She was only recently allowed her final surgery at 18.

    As for directional counselling, it's a must even for me and when that has been exhausted, then I go and get surgery. I have to see a minimum of 1 Counsellor, 1 Psychologist, 1 Endocrinologist and 2 Psychiatrists before I can transition. Anyone taking a flight of fancy would get píssed of very quickly with all the hassle.


  • #180
    Cavehill Red
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    gurramok wrote: »
    How on earth is that possible in that they are women deep inside and act and think like women?

    How deep is deep? They're not women on the chromosomal level, which is the one that defines gender.
    gurramok wrote: »
    Why deprive them? What have you against them?

    It's not an issue of deprivation. If the core problem is people feeling unhappy about their identity, then the answer is to help them feel happy with their identity.
    gurramok wrote: »
    Catman ain't moving to another human and growing a tail, can you not see this?

    So if he has tail surgery, then you'd accept he's a tiger?
    gurramok wrote: »
    Huh? How does the male body signify how the man inside thinks? This one I have to hear.

    You seem to believe that what someone thinks defines their reality. However, there is a fundamental reality.

    You're slowly grasping that in relation to Cat Man. He may believe he's a tiger inside, but he's not really a tiger because his DNA says otherwise. So it is with men who have surgery to 'become' women.


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  • #181
    L.Jenkins
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,242 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    Don't be silly. Gender is inherently biological.

    Sex is biological, gender is a social construct.


This discussion has been closed.
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