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Poll - who is to blame for the Irish property crash?

24

Comments

  • #32
    kuntboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 290 ✭✭kuntboy


    It's easy to blame in hindsight but at the time any critics were harshly dealt with. If the government had slowed things down there would have been uproar and they would've been voted out. The regulator would have been sacked if he'd rocked the boat. Bankers have a duty to their stockholders to maximise profits and the developers were just opportunists.


  • #33
    maxxie
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 949 ✭✭✭maxxie


    Others
    THFC wrote: »
    I blamed Joe Public, Financial Regulator, Banks, Developers and the Government. Of course I'm right so dont dare and contradict me.

    :mad:


  • #34
    johnmcdnl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,740 ✭✭✭johnmcdnl


    Builders
    anyone who turned houses into an investment to sell at a later date at a profit pretty much

    basically anyone who wanted a house for anything bar to live in or possibly to rent... we'll let them away with it as long as it was "an investment"

    a house should be somewhere to live and blaming the public for paying over the odds for a house is wrong - was the average Joe Bloggs going to stay at home with mammy and daddy or move into a cardboard box - it wasn't their fault that houses cost that much...


  • #35
    audi4444
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 37 ✭audi4444


    Developers
    banks goverment developers some where in that order


  • #36
    audi4444
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 37 ✭audi4444


    Developers
    lets blame joe public he looks like a scap goat oh sorry we have enough of them :D


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  • #37
    Slideshowbob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,462 ✭✭✭Slideshowbob


    Others
    Thanks for d feedback

    I'd tend to apportion blame towards the government ultimately

    Interesting developers are high up there in results. But they only bought & built on sites once banks decided to lend to them. These banks were to be watched over by the regulator who in turn should have been kept in check by the government.....

    Now in order to sort out country all we need to do is establish the total level of stressed/defaulted indebtedness and apportion payback in proportion to this pol'ss findings and commit to pay back over as long a period as possible

    Simples

    Now what is a field in Leitrim or 1bed dog box in tallaght really worth ....


  • #38
    Fighting Irish
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,062 ✭✭✭Fighting Irish


    Financial Regulator
    Really-Stressed wrote: »
    People should blame themselves. Nobody protested outside the regulators office saying hey stop the banks lending, people were happy to jump on the bandwgon and pay 300K + for a house in a floodplain in Westmeath.

    We all share some responsibility.

    People who bought houses at ridiculous prices are to blame


  • #39
    Slideshowbob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,462 ✭✭✭Slideshowbob


    Others
    Fighting Irish wrote: »
    People who bought houses at ridiculous prices are to blame

    should the government not have controlled the flow of money through the regulator?

    did the average joe have the capabilities to analyse if property values were sustainable?!!?

    and what of the auctioneers and estate agents that gave what now turns out tobe misleading guide prices?

    what about the valuers acting for purchasers that would have verified property values for the banks in question for those purchases? would their professional indemnity insurances not be under question given their inaccurate valuations!?

    whats to stop it all happening again (apart from there being no friggin credit)?


  • #40
    th3 s1aught3r
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,925 ✭✭✭th3 s1aught3r


    Others
    Where does the buck stop if not with Bertie Ahern ?
    He was the top dog while the seeds of doom were being sown


  • #41
    Bullseye1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,730 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    I would say all of the above to a smaller or greater extent. Joe public got very greedy when it came to selling and buying multiple properties to rent. They have also to take some responsibility for those apartments put in Spain.


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  • #42
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Others
    I chose every option.


  • #43
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,828 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Others
    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    Serious Answer: All of the above and then some (e.g. estate agents and anyone else with a vested interest in the bubble)

    Blaming "Joe Public" is throwing the net a bit wide though. Not everyone willingly bought into the collective insanity of the tiger bubble years.

    AH Answer: I blame the scapegoats. Its always those bloody scapegoats.

    Fair comments, so many people in all walks of life saw an oppertunity to make easy money in this scheme, only like all pyramid schemes it eventually collapses when the number of punters dry up.


  • #44
    Fighting Irish
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,062 ✭✭✭Fighting Irish


    Financial Regulator
    kuntboy wrote: »
    It's easy to blame in hindsight but at the time any critics were harshly dealt with. If the government had slowed things down there would have been uproar and they would've been voted out. The regulator would have been sacked if he'd rocked the boat. Bankers have a duty to their stockholders to maximise profits and the developers were just opportunists.

    perfectly said


  • #45
    Fighting Irish
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,062 ✭✭✭Fighting Irish


    Financial Regulator
    johnmcdnl wrote: »
    anyone who turned houses into an investment to sell at a later date at a profit pretty much

    basically anyone who wanted a house for anything bar to live in or possibly to rent... we'll let them away with it as long as it was "an investment"

    a house should be somewhere to live and blaming the public for paying over the odds for a house is wrong - was the average Joe Bloggs going to stay at home with mammy and daddy or move into a cardboard box - it wasn't their fault that houses cost that much...

    lol


  • #46
    Finnbar01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,107 ✭✭✭Finnbar01


    Others
    Fractional reserve banking (ponzi scheme) and fiat currencies (counterfeiting).


  • #47
    Miguel_Sanchez
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,417 ✭✭✭Miguel_Sanchez


    Really-Stressed wrote: »
    People should blame themselves. Nobody protested outside the regulators office saying hey stop the banks lending, people were happy to jump on the bandwgon and pay 300K + for a house in a floodplain in Westmeath.

    I wasn't. I didn't buy a house. Don't blame me.

    And before you say I should have been protesting outside the financial regulator's office - I don't know anything about finance, there are supposed to be checks and balances in place to make sure a system is running properly. Whose fault is it that these weren't adhered to? The banks and the government's fault essentially, not mine.

    So don't blame me for this. I had nothing to do with it.


  • #48
    Fighting Irish
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,062 ✭✭✭Fighting Irish


    Financial Regulator
    Slideshowbob wrote: »
    should the government not have controlled the flow of money through the regulator?

    http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68652325&postcount=32
    Slideshowbob wrote: »
    did the average joe have the capabilities to analyse if property values were sustainable?!!?

    It's not hard to figure out if something is way overpriced or not, stupid excuse
    Slideshowbob wrote: »
    and what of the auctioneers and estate agents that gave what now turns out tobe misleading guide prices?

    what about the valuers acting for purchasers that would have verified property values for the banks in question for those purchases? would their professional indemnity insurances not be under question given their inaccurate valuations!?

    People have jobs to make money, and like everyone they want to make as much profit as possible


  • #49
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,828 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Others
    Finnbar01 wrote: »
    Fractional reserve banking (ponzi scheme) and fiat currencies (counterfeiting).
    Perfect building blocks for a pyramid, only problem is they built it upside down!

    We can look forward to some clever financial shenanigans when the debts are inflated away along with your savings.


  • #50
    bobblepuzzle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,256 ✭✭✭bobblepuzzle


    biko wrote: »
    If I were to blame a single person then the financial regulator Patrick Neary, who now enjoys his pension of 630000 Euro.
    The man we put in place to watch over the banks failed at his job but instead of being drummed out of the public service for failing Neary gets a massive pension.

    Ireland, where sucking at your job will get you paid (if you're with the FF crowd).

    I think you'll find he was doing his job... with the rules that were laid out in front of him at the time


  • #51
    Falcon Crest
    Closed Accounts Posts: 67 ✭✭Falcon Crest


    Others
    Probably a little bit of every option is to blame.


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  • #52
    Son Of A Vidic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    Others
    At the end of the day it's irelevant who we blame, because we're all now in this sh1te together.


  • #53
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    Banks
    Basel II was a big factor.


  • #54
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    medicman2009 wrote: »
    At the end of the day it's irelevant who we blame,

    I wonder if Saddam's defence lawyers tried that one
    medicman2009 wrote: »
    because we're all now in this sh1te together.

    Except
    1) (to some extent) those of us who choose to live outside the state or are planning to do so in the near future
    2) Those members of the Golden circle (i.e. those largely responsible) who have managed to hold onto their jobs (or have "resigned" with fat pensions/golden handshakes) and are highly unlikely to spend a single day inside a prison cell.

    Its mostly No 2 above who are spinning the "we're all in this together" line when it is patently bulls**t


  • #55
    Fighting Irish
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,062 ✭✭✭Fighting Irish


    Financial Regulator
    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    I wonder if Saddam's defence lawyers tried that one



    Except
    1) (to some extent) those of us who choose to live outside the state or are planning to do so in the near future
    2) Those members of the Golden circle (i.e. those largely responsible) who have managed to hold onto their jobs (or have "resigned" with fat pensions/golden handshakes) and are highly unlikely to spend a single day inside a prison cell.

    Its mostly No 2 above who are spinning the "we're all in this together" line when it is patently bulls**t

    jealous much


  • #56
    De Dannan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 486 ✭✭De Dannan


    medicman2009 wrote: »
    At the end of the day it's irelevant who we blame, because we're all now in this sh1te together.

    Its unlikely that a top politician or banker who has retired on a tasty pension will have trouble paying the mortgage or the heating bill this winter.
    Personally I didnt take any part in the propery bubble, but now I will have to pay more tax to bail out those that did, seems unfair ?


  • #57
    lostwallet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23 ✭lostwallet


    Others
    th3 s1aught3r wrote: »
    Where does the buck stop if not with Bertie Ahern ?
    He was the top dog while the seeds of doom were being sown

    +1

    Robbed from the Property Pin Glossary:

    Definition: Bertugabe

    De accountant...... who's not an accountant
    De LSE graduate....... who never went to LSE
    De Minister fer Finance wi' no bank account (He just used de daughters')
    De Leader wit no skeletons
    De man who never took no 50k in a car park from no one
    Definitely Not de B in B&T account (dat' B fer building defo')
    De Financial genius wha' cashes his Punt wage cheques in sterling before relodging dem in Punts again.
    De man wha' doesn't remember details but definitely remembers NO DOLLARS!!!
    De empatiser wi' de homeless (sure wasn't he a squatter in Lukes fer years)
    De renovater of Landlords Gaffs
    De champion of Dail Privelege (snot about him its about de princdiples)
    De saviour of great Aunts everywhere
    De scourge of tax evaders everywhere
    De Sartorial champion of Canary yellow
    De most cunning and devious of dem all
    De future President of Europe


    It's BERTUGABE !!!!!!!!

    http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?p=67877#p67877


  • #58
    PanchoVilla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭PanchoVilla


    Others
    Basically the only people you can honestly blame is the government. They are paid massive salaries to ensure the stability of this country and they failed miserably. They allowed banks to lend ridiculous sums of money to people who couldn't pay it back. They allowed land lords and estate agents to sell houses many times above their actual value. They allowed developers to build properties that nobody wanted. They allowed migrant workers to flood the country and take a good bit of money out of the national economy. They allowed Irish businesses to fail while giving tax breaks and other assistance to foreign companies. They sold off our nation's resources to line their own pockets.

    So yeah, I'd say the government is squarely to blame here.


  • #59
    flash1080
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭flash1080


    People should blame themselves. It's not FF's fault.


  • #60
    PanchoVilla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭PanchoVilla


    Others
    flash1080 wrote: »
    People should blame themselves. It's not FF's fault.

    So what in the fúck are we paying them for? They are responsible for guiding the country and ensuring stability. They are responsible for ensuring the laws of this country and the articles of the constitution are upheld.

    Saying it's not FF's fault is like saying it's not the parent's fault when their child gets into the press under the sink and drinks a bottle of Domestos. This country had never seen so much wealth before so it's understandable people went a bit mental. It was the government's responsibility to ensure the economy was stable and people weren't being ripped off left, right, and center.


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  • #61
    Fighting Irish
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,062 ✭✭✭Fighting Irish


    Financial Regulator
    PanchoVilla wrote: »
    Basically the only people you can honestly blame is the government. They are paid massive salaries to ensure the stability of this country and they failed miserably. They allowed banks to lend ridiculous sums of money to people who couldn't pay it back. They allowed land lords and estate agents to sell houses many times above their actual value. They allowed developers to build properties that nobody wanted. They allowed migrant workers to flood the country and take a good bit of money out of the national economy. They allowed Irish businesses to fail while giving tax breaks and other assistance to foreign companies. They sold off our nation's resources to line their own pockets.

    So yeah, I'd say the government is squarely to blame here.

    They gave the public what they wanted
    kuntboy wrote: »
    It's easy to blame in hindsight but at the time any critics were harshly dealt with. If the government had slowed things down there would have been uproar and they would've been voted out. The regulator would have been sacked if he'd rocked the boat. Bankers have a duty to their stockholders to maximise profits and the developers were just opportunists.

    .


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