Poll - who is to blame for the Irish property crash?

Slideshowbob · 23-10-2010 11:33AM #1

Well?

ejmaztec · 23-10-2010 11:36AM

Slideshowbob wrote: »

Well?

Yes, it was the well, it ran dry.:(

aidan_walsh · 23-10-2010 11:38AM

Stephen.

Liam Byrne · 23-10-2010 11:41AM

Others

Everyone who got greedy

ChunkyLover_53 · 23-10-2010 11:42AM

Alison O'Riordan & those like her

muletide · 23-10-2010 11:44AM

Financial Regulator

I blame the nurses.

(well that's what everyone else is doing these days)

Mike 1972 · 23-10-2010 11:45AM

Serious Answer: All of the above and then some (e.g. estate agents and anyone else with a vested interest in the bubble)

Blaming "Joe Public" is throwing the net a bit wide though. Not everyone willingly bought into the collective insanity of the tiger bubble years.

AH Answer: I blame the scapegoats. Its always those bloody scapegoats.

bijapos · 23-10-2010 11:47AM

Others

The blame lies on a collective failing of various amounts of all of the parties mentioned above.

Hail 2 Da Thief · 23-10-2010 11:50AM

Others

The Government.
They had crazy tax incentive schemes in place even when it was clear that the construction sector was too large in relation to the rest of the economy.
When it was clear for all to see that something had to be done to slow down the output within the industry they did nothing but sit back & simply allow the bust to happen!
C*nts the lot of em!

Ulysses Gaze · 23-10-2010 11:52AM

C'mon now. Where is the Lehman Bros option? Sure that's who Ahern, St. Lenihan and the rest of FF believed caused the crash.

And sure, nobody could have seen it coming.

Oat23 · 23-10-2010 11:53AM

Osama

Jimbob1977 · 23-10-2010 12:03PM

Everyone who overstretched themselves is collectively responsible - the banking sector, politicians, the financial regulator and Joe Public.

If I had taken out that mortgage for €575k three years ago for a three-bedroom house in Shankill, that would have been my fault.

I was not coerced into it with a gun at my back. The bank did throw money at me and indulged me, but it's my signature on the dotted line. God gave me free will to say yes or no. Thankfully, I was outbid. I was almost caught up in the property madness.

People should accept personal responsibility for paying €6 for a sandwich or €7 for a beer. I sympathise with people in financial difficulty, but it's a modern disease when someone else is always to blame. As Bart Simpson says "I didn't do it".

Mike 1972 · 23-10-2010 12:08PM

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

And sure, nobody could have seen it coming.

Except
1) Those of us whose formative years were in times when the terms "Irish state" and "failure" were synonomus and regarded the whole concept of the "tiger" with a healthy degree of cynicism scepticism
2) Those of us with some awareness of the outside world who had seen the same happen (more than once in some cases) in other countries.

biko · 23-10-2010 12:11PM

Builders

If I were to blame a single person then the financial regulator Patrick Neary, who now enjoys his pension of 630000 Euro.
The man we put in place to watch over the banks failed at his job but instead of being drummed out of the public service for failing Neary gets a massive pension.

Ireland, where sucking at your job will get you paid (if you're with the FF crowd).

MrMatisse · 23-10-2010 12:14PM

Financial Regulator

People should blame themselves. Nobody protested outside the regulators office saying hey stop the banks lending, people were happy to jump on the bandwgon and pay 300K + for a house in a floodplain in Westmeath.

We all share some responsibility.

Liam Byrne · 23-10-2010 12:15PM

Others

Really-Stressed wrote: »

People should blame themselves. Nobody protested outside the regulators office saying hey stop the banks lending, people were happy to jump on the bandwgon and pay 300K + for a house in a floodplain in Westmeath.

We all share some responsibility.

Here we go again......

For "people" in the above post, replace with some people and you might be closer to being right.

HavingCrack · 23-10-2010 12:18PM

The sort of people whp paid €200,000 for a wardrobe sized room on Leeson Street...

MrMatisse · 23-10-2010 12:20PM

Financial Regulator

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Here we go again......

For "people" in the above post, replace with some people and you might be closer to being right.

Sorry, I missed those protests you led outside the regulators office.

Hande hoche! · 23-10-2010 12:26PM

Lizard people.

Ruu_Old · 23-10-2010 12:27PM

Others

All of the above.

TheZohanS · 23-10-2010 12:33PM

Jim DeMint.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero · 23-10-2010 12:36PM

Others

I blamed Joe Public, Financial Regulator, Banks, Developers and the Government. Of course I'm right so dont dare and contradict me.

K-9 · 23-10-2010 12:37PM

There are no foreigners to blame there.

The ECB.

El Siglo · 23-10-2010 12:38PM

Others

Banks, developers, government and financial regulator. All hand-in-hand, fucking everybody.

Capt'n Midnight · 23-10-2010 12:40PM

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Everyone who got greedy

people are greedy, that's one of the main reasons why we have laws

The people responsible are those whose duty it was to prevent it.

almost all of these people lived through the 1980's so they have no excuse for realising that had times existed, phrases like "saving for a rainy day" are very common.

the financial regulator - is treason still a capital offence ?

the government - building of houses is a pyramid scheme , FF mortgaging our future to buy elections, just like they did late '70's early '80's. At least then they bit the bullet with the cuts.

we are due a budget soon with a 4 year plan
we should have had that budget 2 years ago , instead we've got drip feed of the bad news that was known then, and they've been digging a deeper hole with borrowings instead of trimming the fat, so instead of 6 years to get out of that hole, we will have 4 far worse years (at least DOUBLE the €'s per year) , also if they had revealed the bad news then we might believe them now , instead we are still waiting for more billions to be revealed

others -
Overall there should be a balance between risk and reward, if there is no risk then people will chance their arms, the elite here have availed of numerous tax amnesties and there have been a lot of tribunals with very little punishment other than handing back the money (not all of it of course just the bits that were found out) with financial penalties that could be treated as overdraft payments (especially if you got away with other transactions).

Until those who broke the letter of the law (and the spirit of the law) are seen to be punished it will continue to happen in the future, the only difference is that they won't be quite as blatant about it. I keep saying this but by diverting funds from the public finances the end result is that people die because of reduced health spending and other things like road improvements and inspections etc.

self regulation just doesn't work in this country when money is involved

If the organisation you worked for has taken a bath then the decision makers there should be held accountable
Those guilty of reckless trading should be prosecuted
The financial regulator isn't a member of the judiciary. So people can't use the excuse that because they weren't reprimanded by the regulator it was OK to do stuff they should have known to be wrong under laws of trading partners or best practice.

In future companies should be banned from handing out bonuses over a certain % of wage without it being dependent on the future health of the company, perhaps buying the exec a house over 10 years. A signifigant proportion of executives are psycopaths in that they don't really care about the company's future just about short term gains ( if they cared about the company more than their pockets they'd stay, unlike those lower down they don't need the money from a steady job - head hunters should have a duty of care here too )

Diposal of assets to wives etc. - the law on stolen goods is quite clear. If the money was stolen then it wasn't you asset to give away. The law on stolen goods is quite clear for those receiving them too.

mikemac · 23-10-2010 12:43PM

Financial Regulator

Government

Building section 23 estates in rural areas that nobody wanted, the locals wouldn't even buy them.
Our village is blighted with a closed up, unfinished Section 23 estate nobody wanted, nobody will ever buy and who knows what will happen it.

Sure the biggest local employer is the Spar shop so who would move here?

Tax breaks for hotels, it did provide employment but many hotels are closing so was it worth it?
I do think the section 50 scheme for student accommodation was a good idea but that started in 1999 and was planning ahead

Mike 1972 · 23-10-2010 12:52PM

K-9 wrote: »

There's are no foreigners to blame there.

The ECB.

A lot of people (including the Government) are looking to the ECB (i.e. the German taxpayer) to get us out of the mess.

Im sure the Germans are getting pi$$ed off at one stage. For one thing we had our chance (enabled by decades of their investment) and blew it (blatently disregarding the ECB rulebook in the process). For another the EU is now far bigger and there are other parts of it (including parts of Germany itself) far more deserving of economic assistance. Not to mention that the Germans themselves have played by the rules and didnt get themselves into trouble with unsustainable notions of universal home ownership coupled (contradictially) with the idea that ever rising property "values" were unquestionably a good thing.

Its laughable the way people condem social welfare reciepiants for having a sense of entitlement to have the Irish taxpayer to fund their lifestyle and bad decisions when their own are being funded by the Germans.

The ECB/German taxpayer may well yet tell Ireland (and the Italians/Greeks etc)to go and f**k themselves and I wouldnt blame them for one second if they did.

Son Of A Vidic · 23-10-2010 01:00PM

Others

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Except
1) Those of us whose formative years were in times when the terms "Irish state" and "failure" were synonomus and regarded the whole concept of the "tiger" with a healthy degree of cynicism scepticism
2) Those of us with some awareness of the outside world who had seen the same happen (more than once in some cases) in other countries.

Amen to that!

tricky D · 23-10-2010 01:06PM

Others

Tent users in Connacht

Biggins · 23-10-2010 01:39PM

Others

Short version:

The Government: Lack of proper regulations (and one they brought in were a joke) - then they actually (stupidly) de-regulated some areas! They failed then in other areas, to give the regulators the legal teeth to stand up to the banks.
(convenient of course when so many of them were/are in bed with the building business)

The Regulators: Not standing up to the government and saying "WE DO NOT HAVE THE NECESSARY POWERS WE NEED" - and if they did say it at any stage, it was with the bark of a poodle!
What abilities they had, back by the letter of the law, they consistently failed to enact using those laws and rules! They were lazy, turned a blind eye sometimes and in cases, went along with some every questionable goings on.

Banks/Developers/Builders: They all on their own or with each other took the money, rules and twisted everything to their warped advantage. They not only bought the government (see "Drumcondra Mafia") and pressurised others on the opposite side of the Dail - as well as being too in bed with them, then took complete advantage of a Celtic Tiger and abused all its possibilities.

...Thats the short version!

Luxie · 23-10-2010 01:56PM

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Except
1) Those of us whose formative years were in times when the terms "Irish state" and "failure" were synonomus and regarded the whole concept of the "tiger" with a healthy degree of cynicism scepticism
2) Those of us with some awareness of the outside world who had seen the same happen (more than once in some cases) in other countries.

This. I was being told by folk at home in 2005, 'ah sure come home, you'll have no problem getting a job and the banks are giving out 100% mortgages'.

Or was 120%, can't remember.

Anyway refused, as no way was I getting into that much debt on my own.

And as a child of the eighties, was naturally suspicious/cautious of the whole circus that was the Celtic Tiger anyway.

Poll - who is to blame for the Irish property crash?

Poll - who is to blame for the Irish property crash? 770 votes

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