Sterilization. At last a good news story.

General Zod · 19-10-2010 02:22PM

candy-gal1 wrote: »

Seriously, how is this bad?! if there was more of this the city would possibly be a nicer place. No scumbags, no scangers, no junkies, no drug pushers! Just normal decent people trying to make a living, but without the threat of s***heads.

Do It Now!!

How is this going to stop people getting addicted to heroin?

In your own time.

candy-gal1 · 19-10-2010 02:28PM

General Zod wrote: »

How is this going to stop people getting addicted to heroin?

In your own time.

It wont, but at least whoever does wont be able to reproduce. And if we get to minimise the people who do try drugs then it will be all the better. Like putting an abortion clinic over here, but thats a different matter for a different forum.

readyletsgo · 19-10-2010 02:29PM

General Zod wrote: »

How is this going to stop people getting addicted to heroin?

In your own time.

It will not/never stop people becoming addicts but it will stop them bringing a child into a horrible life of the junkie parent not looking after them, which is what a parent is ment to do when the child is born is it not?

This is a loosing battle here, junkies = scum.

Bottle_of_Smoke · 19-10-2010 02:30PM

mahamageehad wrote: »

I'm all for doing something about the problem! But this, in my sense of ethics, is wrong. Especially with regards female junkies (i'm biased because I'm female) - there are so many other alternatives available! Mirena coil is good for 5 years, contraceptive injection is good for 3. A junkie in their early 20's has a perfectly good chance of turning it all around in 5 years and becoming a functional member of society. Someone filled with regret that they threw any chance of having kids away for less than a weeks worth of drugs. Extreme example but it keeps coming into my head. Linky

Well as I said earlier the Mirena coil isn't suitable. I would tend to agree with the contraceptive injection over sterilisation though. I do think a heroin addict can pull their life back together and the female tube tying can have complications like all major operations. Vasectomy isn't a major operation.

candy-gal wrote:

Okay, but what junkie is actually going to do that?! its their choice to do drugs/harress people etc so they should not be allowed to breed and pass on more scangeryness to the next generation and the next. just my opinion.

They're the visible junkies we see on the street. If someone was a reformed addict you wouldn't realise it because they'd be eh well... reformed.

optogirl · 19-10-2010 02:31PM

candy-gal1 wrote: »

Seriously, how is this bad?! if there was more of this the city would possibly be a nicer place. No scumbags, no scangers, no junkies, no drug pushers! Just normal decent people trying to make a living, but without the threat of s***heads.

Do It Now!!

So should we consider sterilising all the middle class coke heads and valium, codeine addicts?

candy-gal1 · 19-10-2010 02:31PM

readyletsgo wrote: »

It will not/never stop people becoming addicts but it will stop them bringing a child into a horrible life of the junkie parent not looking after them, which is what a parent is ment to do when the child is born is it not?

This is a loosing battle here, junkies = scum.

+1 there!

Junkies= scum, scangers/scumbags = nearly junkies which is scum.

The Waltzing Consumer · 19-10-2010 02:32PM

My name is URL wrote: »

Horrible initiative imo. What next? Sterilize the poor, and the mentally unfit? It's a slippery slope, and sad that so many see it as a solution to a problem. It won't stop people from becomming addicts, and it won't make anyone want to clean up their act. Sorry for the Godwin, but this reminds me of Himmler's Final Solution

Sorry man, but Himmler did not give any choice to any victims of Nazi policy, and obviously did not give any payment. Trying to equate someones choice to get the snip and exterminating Jews and other minorities is pretty offensive.

optogirl · 19-10-2010 02:32PM

readyletsgo wrote: »

This is a loosing battle here, junkies = scum.

Your loo sings?:eek:

candy-gal1 · 19-10-2010 02:33PM

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Well as I said earlier the Mirena coil isn't suitable. I would tend to agree with the contraceptive injection over sterilisation though. I do think a heroin addict can pull their life back together and the female tube tying can have complications like all major operations. Vasectomy isn't a major operation.

They're the visible junkies we see on the street. If someone was a reformed addict you wouldn't realise it because they'd be eh well... reformed.

Of course, your right there. So if junkies want the rights of everyone else then they will stop being junkies.

candy-gal1 · 19-10-2010 02:35PM

optogirl wrote: »

So should we consider sterilising all the middle class coke heads and valium, codeine addicts?

Yes!

senordingdong · 19-10-2010 02:35PM

mahamageehad wrote: »

It doesn't matter if they're likely to be good or bad parents! You can't just decide a whole group of people shouldn't be allowed to breed, no matter how bad the circumstances!! Who would be put in charge of such a thing..??

Wow...easy pussycat.
I did not say a whole group of people should not be allowed.

And btw, being a junkie isn't a circumstance, it's a life choice.

You might be onto something with the gingers though.

General Zod · 19-10-2010 02:37PM

I'd support giving some of the idiots in this thread 200 quid to get sterilised before I'd offer it to a junkie.

optogirl · 19-10-2010 02:38PM

candy-gal1 wrote: »

+1 there!

Junkies= scum, scangers/scumbags = nearly junkies which is scum.

So all of the following should be/have been sterilised?

David Bowie
William Burroughs
Kurt Cobain
Miles Davis

Damon Albarn
Robert Downey Jr

Ben Franklin

Jerry Garcia
Billie Holiday
Charles Parker
Elvis Presley

Edgar Allan Poe
James Taylor
Irvine Welsh
Robert Kennedy

mahamageehad · 19-10-2010 02:40PM

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Okay, that is some good points. I think the group that offers sterilization has a range of other birth control methods too, it's just this one is a headline maker.

You did not answer my questions regarding the kids though

Sorry my bad. I firmly believe that there are some people out there who should just not be allowed breed.

However, I don't believe in tying it down to a specific group. Yes junkies who can't think past their next hit aren't suitable to be parents. That is true, while the condition is true, if they change their lives around they are as entitled as anyone else to have kids. I don't think that giving a life changing decision like that, with a cash(might as well be drug) incentive is right.

There are plenty of people outside of this group who shouldn't have kids either. Young girls of 14/15, alcoholics, people with borderline mental issues, sick perverts, people who beat people who can't hit back (kids,wife,GF) ... There are plenty of alcoholics that drink heavily while pregnant and proceed to ignore the child when it's born. How is that any better than junkies? Just because you see some junkies on the street?? Lets offer it to all homeless people as well so.

senordingdong · 19-10-2010 02:41PM

optogirl wrote: »

So all of the following should be/have been sterilised?
David Bowie
William Burroughs
Kurt Cobain
Miles Davis

Damon Albarn
Robert Downey Jr
Ben Franklin
Jerry Garcia
Billie Holiday
Charles Parker
Elvis Presley

Edgar Allan Poe
James Taylor
Irvine Welsh
Robert Kennedy

Have any of those produced worth while offspring?

readyletsgo · 19-10-2010 02:42PM

optogirl wrote: »

So all of the following should be/have been sterilised?
David Bowie
William Burroughs
Kurt Cobain
Miles Davis

Damon Albarn
Robert Downey Jr

Ben Franklin
Jerry Garcia

Billie Holiday
Charles Parker
Elvis Presley

Edgar Allan Poe
James Taylor
Irvine Welsh
Robert Kennedy

Well, yes.

And my loo does sing optogirl!

candy-gal1 · 19-10-2010 02:42PM

optogirl wrote: »

So all of the following should be/have been sterilised?
David Bowie
William Burroughs
Kurt Cobain
Miles Davis

Damon Albarn
Robert Downey Jr

Ben Franklin
Jerry Garcia

Billie Holiday
Charles Parker
Elvis Presley

Edgar Allan Poe
James Taylor
Irvine Welsh
Robert Kennedy

Why them? lol

They done worthwhile things with life, their world famous anyway!

Gummy Panda · 19-10-2010 02:44PM

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Great idea let's begin our new eugenics phase on the junkies, then we'll target the unemployed and the Africans, and then ...............finish things off by the reinstating the final solution!!

well the solution better be final this time.

mahamageehad · 19-10-2010 02:46PM

senordingdong wrote: »

Wow...easy pussycat.
I did not say a whole group of people should not be allowed.

And btw, being a junkie isn't a circumstance, it's a life choice.

You might be onto something with the gingers though.

Sorry I didn't mean you personally can't decide, i meant a body of people.

I don't know about that tbh, it starts out as a life choice but can spiral out of control until it's a necessity, then in my mind it becomes circumstance. I mean we can always say "it's their own fault" but at the same time acknowledge that they need help when they decide that they don't want to be doing it anymore. Because when that happens they can't just choose to be not addicted. But i see where you're coming from.

As for the gingers..?

They're already dying out, waste of money imo haha

candy-gal1 · 19-10-2010 02:47PM

The unemployed who are actually looking for jobs are fine tbh, but everyone else.............................................

optogirl · 19-10-2010 02:47PM

senordingdong wrote: »

Have any of those produced worth while offspring?

What, in your opinion, makes a life worthwhile? Are you implying that by virtue of the fact that their parents were heroin addicts, they did not deserve to be born - unless of course they have proved themselves to be 'worthwhile' - whatever the hell that means.

I don't know much about any of their children although I know Bowie's son Duncan Jones is a film director.

optogirl · 19-10-2010 02:49PM

candy-gal1 wrote: »

Why them? lol They done worthwhile things with life, their world famous anyway!

So how do we classify heroin addicts

*definitely useless STERILISE
*potential to make an album EH, MAYBE NOT

candy-gal1 · 19-10-2010 02:49PM

mahamageehad wrote: »

Sorry I didn't mean you personally can't decide, i meant a body of people.

I don't know about that tbh, it starts out as a life choice but can spiral out of control until it's a necessity, then in my mind it becomes circumstance. I mean we can always say "it's their own fault" but at the same time acknowledge that they need help when they decide that they don't want to be doing it anymore. Because when that happens they can't just choose to be not addicted. But i see where you're coming from.

yes, but it is a life choice, unless it was forced upon you.

senordingdong · 19-10-2010 02:50PM

mahamageehad wrote: »

acknowledge that they need help when they decide that they don't want to be doing it anymore. Because when that happens they can't just choose to be not addicted. But i see where you're coming from.

As for the gingers..? They're already dying out, waste of money imo haha

There are alot of people in this country/world who need help and we do not have the resources etc... to help them all.

Suffice to say, I don't think people who piss their lives away like this are high on the priorities of people to help.

The Waltzing Consumer · 19-10-2010 02:51PM

optogirl wrote: »

What, in your opinion, makes a life worthwhile? Are you implying that by virtue of the fact that their parents were heroin addicts, they did not deserve to be born - unless of course they have proved themselves to be 'worthwhile' - whatever the hell that means.

I don't know much about any of their children although I know Bowie's son Duncan Jones is a film director.

Can you please show me where people were suggesting that ALL addicts should be FORCIBLY sterilised in this thread?

If addicts have the same rights as any of us, they have the right to CHOOSE to get the snip like any of us, that's it. So enough of the hysterics. You do know that many people who are not addicts get sterilized and it is not some nazi action, it is not forced on them, it is their choice :eek:

candy-gal1 · 19-10-2010 02:52PM

optogirl wrote: »

What, in your opinion, makes a life worthwhile? Are you implying that by virtue of the fact that their parents were heroin addicts, they did not deserve to be born - unless of course they have proved themselves to be 'worthwhile' - whatever the hell that means.

I don't know much about any of their children although I know Bowie's son Duncan Jones is a film director.

If they or their kids are going to be hanging around on the street, doing nothing, and harrassing people just because they have nothing else to do then whats the point of them?

candy-gal1 · 19-10-2010 02:54PM

optogirl wrote: »

So how do we classify heroin addicts

*definitely useless STERILISE
*potential to make an album EH, MAYBE NOT

People who have nothing better to do, make peoples lives a hell, rob to support their habit, or breed kids into the same environment.

senordingdong · 19-10-2010 02:55PM

optogirl wrote: »

What, in your opinion, makes a life worthwhile? Are you implying that by virtue of the fact that their parents were heroin addicts, they did not deserve to be born - unless of course they have proved themselves to be 'worthwhile' - whatever the hell that means.

I don't know much about any of their children although I know Bowie's son Duncan Jones is a film director.

No, that is not what I am implying.

The Waltzing Consumer · 19-10-2010 02:55PM

candy-gal1 wrote: »

If they or their kids are going to be hanging around on the street, doing nothing, and harrassing people just because they have nothing else to do then whats the point of them?

Damn :eek:

Not exactly making our side look good, heh

Odysseus · 19-10-2010 03:00PM

mahamageehad wrote: »

Sorry my bad. I firmly believe that there are some people out there who should just not be allowed breed.

However, I don't believe in tying it down to a specific group. Yes junkies who can't think past their next hit aren't suitable to be parents. That is true, while the condition is true, if they change their lives around they are as entitled as anyone else to have kids. I don't think that giving a life changing decision like that, with a cash(might as well be drug) incentive is right.

There are plenty of people outside of this group who shouldn't have kids either. Young girls of 14/15, alcoholics, people with borderline mental issues, sick perverts, people who beat people who can't hit back (kids,wife,GF) ... There are plenty of alcoholics that drink heavily while pregnant and proceed to ignore the child when it's born. How is that any better than junkies? Just because you see some junkies on the street?? Lets offer it to all homeless people as well so.

Would you mind expanding on the borderline mental issues? As with addicts mental illness does not equate with being a bad parent, especially when you qualify it as borderline, what would you do with a serious psychosis if you appear to think that a "borderline issue" is serious enough to qualify as barring a person from being a parent?

Sterilization. At last a good news story.

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