Israel doesn't want peace.

dlofnep · 16-10-2010 04:04PM #1

They have a genuine opportunity to engage in peace talks with Palestinians, but proved unequivocally, that they have no desire for stabilising the region, when Netanyahu gave the go ahead for further illegal settlements to be built in East Jeruselem. He has been urged by both the US and France to halt the settlements to allow for peace talks, but he threw it away.

It's quite clear that no peace agreement will occur. The UN must go in and establish the borders, as per 1967 with a peace-keeping force. This is the only feasible way for a 2-state solution to come about.

Would anyone here favour UN intervention for establishing a 2-state solution?

catbear · 16-10-2010 04:07PM

I reckon this thread could get to 800 posts and then die from fatigue. Some time will elapse and then another one will kick off.

Memnoch · 16-10-2010 04:20PM

It's all pointless at this stage, and I've honestly given up.

Israel will slowly but surely wipe out the palestinian people and clearly, the rest of the world doesn't care enough to do anything about it. The political price is the one the US seems to be happy to pay in exchange for having Israel where it is as a powerful ally/colony and palestine has nothing valuable that any other superpower wants which would cause them to expend political currency to save them.

It's a completely lost cause and only a matter of time before the state of palestine is annalled in the footnotes of history.

catbear · 16-10-2010 04:24PM

I revise my prediction down to 400 posts, come one people where's the outrage?

questionmark? · 16-10-2010 04:28PM

Although this might ruffle some posters feathers i have always found it ironic that the Israelis treat the Palestinians in the way they do considering what happened in WW2. It may not to be to the same extent in regards to the number of deaths and how the deaths occur but a nation of people are being persecuted because of their race and religion.

Its quite simple a 2 state solution, based on the 1967 borders, is the only way there shall ever be peace.

Memnoch · 16-10-2010 04:30PM

questionmark? wrote: »

Although this might ruffle some posters feathers i have always found it ironic that the Israelis treat the Palestinians in the way they do considering what happened in WW2. It may not to be to the same extent in regards to the number of deaths and how the deaths occur but a nation of people are being persecuted because of their race and religion.

Its quite simple a 2 state solution, based on the 1967 borders, is the only way there shall ever be peace.

Na there will be a SORT of peace once palestine is gone and Israel is all that's left. Though there might be sporadic wars with Israel's neighbours or Iran before then.

Cavehill Red · 16-10-2010 04:30PM

How about a one-state solution?
Replace a theocratic apartheid state and its helot nation with an actual pluralist multicultural democracy?

dlofnep · 16-10-2010 04:33PM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

How about a one-state solution?
Replace a theocratic apartheid state and its helot nation with an actual pluralist multicultural democracy?

A one state solution isn't feasible. Israel wants Israel to be a "Jewish State".

Cavehill Red · 16-10-2010 04:35PM

dlofnep wrote: »

A one state solution isn't feasible. Israel wants Israel to be a "Jewish State".

Why can't they be multicultural like everywhere else is advised to be?
How can they be a fully Jewish state without conducting genocide on the indigenous Arab and nomad population?
Effectively, for Israel to be a Jewish state (a highly fascist ideal, it seems to me), they are required to commit a genocide on their own minority population.
Is that a reasonable aspiration for a nation state?

dlofnep · 16-10-2010 04:41PM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Why can't they be multicultural like everywhere else is advised to be?

In an ideal world - they could be. But this isn't an ideal world, and Israelis won't settle for anything less than an Jewish-driven Israeli state. If they wanted multiculturalism, they'd move to New York or London. Israel is built upon Zionism, and on that basis - it would never be a true multifaceted state. Orthodox Jews there don't even want school-integration, let alone drop it's Zionist outlook for the state.

Jaafa · 16-10-2010 04:44PM

The only hope the Palestinians have is to hold out until oil begins to go into decline. Only then will the US lose interest in the region and stop supporting Israel.

Cavehill Red · 16-10-2010 04:47PM

dlofnep wrote: »

In an ideal world - they could be. But this isn't an ideal world, and Israelis won't settle for anything less than an Jewish-driven Israeli state. If they wanted multiculturalism, they'd move to New York or London. Israel is built upon Zionism, and on that basis - it would never be a true multifaceted state. Orthodox Jews there don't even want school-integration, let alone drop it's Zionist outlook for the state.

But that's effectively a fascist outlook, not to mention bordering on genocidal?

dlofnep · 16-10-2010 04:51PM

Jaafa wrote: »

The only hope the Palestinians have is to hold out until oil begins to go into decline. Only then will the US lose interest in the region and stop supporting Israel.

US interest in Israel isn't one of resources. Israel holds a very strong influence in Washington. A candidate for presidency of the US would never got elected if he did not state that he fully supported Israel.

Bottle_of_Smoke · 16-10-2010 04:52PM

It does appear they have no interest in peace or a fair society. It will continue this way until a powerful western nation makes a stand and denounces them and invades the West bank

Jaafa · 16-10-2010 04:55PM

dlofnep wrote: »

US interest in Israel isn't one of resources. Israel holds a very strong influence in Washington. A candidate for presidency of the US would never got elected if he did not state that he fully supported Israel.

Yes but why does it hold influence? Because at the moment the US needs it. Israel knows that,and it is using it to its advantage. Nothing short of directly attacking the US will stop that. Theirs is a relationship of necessity. They spy and undermine each other while pretending to be best of friends.

Believe me when the oil stops flowing in the middle east,then the blood will stop too.

Cavehill Red · 16-10-2010 04:55PM

The West Bank's already under occupation. Surely it's the rest of Palestine needs invading?

Mr. Loverman · 16-10-2010 04:58PM

Judaism tells them they have to take over all the Palestinian land if they want their messiah to come, so there can't be peace.

Thread over.

catbear · 16-10-2010 05:01PM

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

Thread over.

Impossible, these threads never die this quick.

senordingdong · 16-10-2010 05:07PM

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

Judaism tells them they have to take over all the Palestinian land if they want their messiah to come, so there can't be peace.

Thread over.

Well for whatever reason, I definatley agree that they want to fight but don't want to instigate the fight.
Whatever happens, Israel will portray themselves as victims.

Ellian · 16-10-2010 05:09PM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

How about a one-state solution?
Replace a theocratic apartheid state and its helot nation with an actual pluralist multicultural democracy?

I've always wondered why this solution does not at least get some airtime.

lugha · 16-10-2010 05:14PM

Ellian wrote: »

I've always wondered why this solution does not at least get some airtime.

Especially around these parts, as there is such a wide spread view that a single state is the solution to our own little problem.

Nodin · 16-10-2010 05:34PM

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

Judaism tells them they have to take over all the Palestinian land if they want their messiah to come, so there can't be peace.

Thread over.

No, I'd say thats a bizarre misrepresentation which helps things not at all.

Nodin · 16-10-2010 05:38PM

Ellian wrote: »

I've always wondered why this solution does not at least get some airtime.

....because its a non runner as far as the vast majority of the Israeli body politic are concerned, nor would all on the Palestinian side favour such a move. Realistically, theres too much blood been spilled and too many extremists on both sides to imagine such a state any time soon.

BlaasForRafa · 16-10-2010 05:48PM

This thread will be full of the usual simplistic ****e and anti-israeli rhetoric because people are not interested in talking about the issues without demonising one side.

dlofnep · 16-10-2010 05:50PM

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

This thread will be full of the usual simplistic ****e and anti-israeli rhetoric because people are not interested in talking about the issues without demonising one side.

The usual Israeli-apologist rhetoric.

Address the issue at hand. During peace-talk negotiations, Israel allows for illegal settlements to be built in East-Jerusalem - knowing that it would ruin any chance of peace-talks, and against the wishes of France and the US - some of it's biggest allies.

Mr. Loverman · 16-10-2010 06:35PM

Nodin wrote: »

No, I'd say thats a bizarre misrepresentation which helps things not at all.

I agree. Tell that to the Jewish fundamentalists.

Overheal · 16-10-2010 06:41PM

Israel doesn't want peace.

neither side wants peace, they just want to kill each other.

dlofnep · 16-10-2010 06:58PM

Overheal wrote: »

neither side wants peace, they just want to kill each other.

I think the Israeli & Palestinians civilians would very much settle for peace - But peace will not occur when Israel creates a situation that provokes war. Let us not fool ourselves - In most part the ongoing war is a direct result of Israel's illegal occupation of Palestinian territory and when PA reps try to reach out for peace-talks, Netanyahu provokes them by giving the go ahead for more settlements.

Sand · 16-10-2010 07:27PM

I just dont understand why Palestinians hate Jewish people so much. What did they ever do to them?

A Dub in Glasgo · 16-10-2010 07:36PM

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

This thread will be full of the usual simplistic ****e and anti-israeli rhetoric because people are not interested in talking about the issues without demonising one side.

This is classic closing down conversation

catbear · 16-10-2010 09:01PM

I'm worried about this thread, it might not make it to 100 going by the current rate. Somebody needs to misinterpret someone else soon so we can get a battle going.

Israel doesn't want peace.

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