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Far right wing in Ireland?

  • 16-10-2010 11:00AM
    #1
    The After Hours Troll
    Closed Accounts Posts: 121 ✭✭


    Does Ireland have any far right political parties? I have found none and cant understand why we don't.

    Almost every other nation on the planet has a far right political party, and almost certainly every nation in Europe seems to.

    Will we see the rise of any of these parties in the 10 years or so, seeing as immigration may become a concern, and many are disillusioned with the current political parties.


«134567

Comments

  • #2
    Fo Real
    Closed Accounts Posts: 479 ✭✭Fo Real


    This topic was covered very recently

    http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056048590


  • #3
    The After Hours Troll
    Closed Accounts Posts: 121 ✭✭The After Hours Troll


    Right cheers.


  • #4
    The After Hours Troll
    Closed Accounts Posts: 121 ✭✭The After Hours Troll


    Actually that discussion seems more European based and on just right wing discussion, than far right in Ireland.


  • #5
    jackbenimble
    Closed Accounts Posts: 289 ✭✭jackbenimble


    Sinn Fein play that role in Ireland - it's just that most of The Irish can't recognise that fact.


  • #6
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    jackbenimble wrote: »
    Sinn Fein play that role in Ireland - it's just that most of The Irish can't recognise that fact.

    A ridiculous assertion with no basis in fact whatsoever.


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  • #7
    Amhran Nua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    There was some talk among the libertarians hereabouts setting up a right wing party, at least I assume thats what they want.


  • #8
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    jackbenimble wrote: »
    Sinn Fein play that role in Ireland - it's just that most of The Irish can't recognise that fact.

    How exactly do Sinn Féin play a right-wing role?


  • #9
    jackbenimble
    Closed Accounts Posts: 289 ✭✭jackbenimble


    dlofnep wrote: »
    How exactly do Sinn Féin play a right-wing role?

    The OP used the phrase 'far right'. This has a specific contemporary meaning not to be confused with libertarian free marketeers or conservative groupings such as The UK Conservatives under Thatcher or George Bush Republicans.

    Sinn Fein shares elements of it's philosophy with contemporary European 'far right' groups, such as:

    (i) Elevation of so called national culture beyond the national norm.

    (ii) Hatred of a perceived minority (in this case The Ulster British) including all aspects of said minority's culture.

    (iii) Hatred of a neighbouring state (in this case The UK - especially England).

    (iv) An obsession with a grossly distorted version of history.

    (v) Revanchist claims on a neighbouring country's territory.

    (vi) Indulgence in the politics of confrontation - especially street politics.

    (vii) Strong attraction to young people and manipulation thereof.

    (viii) Glorification of historical martyr figures, especially those involved in violence.

    (ix) Mapping out of ethnic areas within towns and cities by the display of tribal flags and emblems.

    (x) Association in the near past with extremely violent terrorist groups responsible for countless murders including many women and children.

    (xi) Contemporary association (covert) with violent elements.

    (xii) Left of centre economic policies.

    (xiii) Drawing their support primarily from the lumpen proletariat.

    (xiv) Support for violent groups internationally.

    (xv) Strong opposition to the state of Israel.

    Not all of these traits are unique to the 'far right' - but their inclusion suggests that the group concerned fits very closely the contemporary 'far right' model.

    Oh, I could add one more:

    Political leadership schooled in sophisticated duplicity apparently at odds with the gut instincts of the party rank and file and electoral support base. Transparent to the initiated.


  • #10
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    jackbenimble wrote: »
    (i) Elevation of so called national culture beyond the national norm.

    That's subjective. Who decides what the "norm" is with regards to national culture. I think you'll find the Irish people as a whole are generally appreciative of their culture.
    jackbenimble wrote: »
    (ii) Hatred of a perceived minority (in this case The Ulster British) including all aspects of said minority's culture.

    Nonsense. Sinn Féin routinely engages in cross-community projects. That's a horrifically sensationalist claim, that's best suited for the likes of The Sun.
    jackbenimble wrote: »
    (iii) Hatred of a neighbouring state (in this case The UK - especially England).

    Nonsense. Sinn Féin doesn't "hate" the UK - But it, along with the nationalist community in general have a general reason to be discontent with the history of British rule in Ireland.
    jackbenimble wrote: »
    (iv) An obsession with a grossly distorted version of history.

    Nonsense. Examples?
    jackbenimble wrote: »
    (v) Revanchist claims on a neighbouring country's territory.

    Sinn Féin, along with all nationalists in the North and South view Ireland as a single cultural entity. They are perfectly entitled to seek for it to be a single political entity - keeping in mind that the partition of Ireland was not a democratic process.
    jackbenimble wrote: »
    (vi) Indulgence in the politics of confrontation - especially street politics.

    This doesn't merit a response. I suppose the old age pensioners who gathered together to protest the medical card cuts, or those who gathered to protest healthcare cuts are far right also? You seem to have a problem with people's democratic right to publicly gather to express their views or qualms.
    jackbenimble wrote: »
    (vii) Strong attraction to young people and manipulation thereof.

    What in the holy hell are you on about?
    jackbenimble wrote: »
    (viii) Glorification of historical martyr figures, especially those involved in violence.

    All nations remember those who fought for their political freedom. America included.
    jackbenimble wrote: »
    (ix) Mapping out of ethnic areas within towns and cities by the display of tribal flags and emblems.

    That has nothing to do with Sinn Féin - but rather to do with the social landscape that exists in the north on both sides of the community. There is absolutely nothing wrong or right wing about flying your flag.
    jackbenimble wrote: »
    (xii) Left of centre economic policies.

    And that has what to do with being right wing?
    jackbenimble wrote: »
    (xiii) Drawing their support primarily from the lumpen proletariat.

    Nonsense, and moreover - Snobbery elitist bollocks.
    jackbenimble wrote: »
    (xiv) Support for violent groups internationally.

    Do you support American violence in Iraq and Afghanistan?
    jackbenimble wrote: »
    (xv) Strong opposition to the state of Israel.

    There is no opposition to the state of Israel - There is a rightful opposition to the illegal occupation of Palestinian territories by Israel.
    jackbenimble wrote: »
    Not all of these traits are unique to the 'far right' - but their inclusion suggests that the group concerned fits very closely the contemporary 'far right' model.

    I don't know whether to laugh, or to sigh.


  • #11
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,797 ✭✭✭karma_


    jackbenimble wrote: »
    The OP used the phrase 'far right'. This has a specific contemporary meaning not to be confused with libertarian free marketeers or conservative groupings such as The UK Conservatives under Thatcher or George Bush Republicans.

    Sinn Fein shares elements of it's philosophy with contemporary European 'far right' groups, such as:

    (i) Elevation of so called national culture beyond the national norm.

    (ii) Hatred of a perceived minority (in this case The Ulster British) including all aspects of said minority's culture.

    (iii) Hatred of a neighbouring state (in this case The UK - especially England).

    (iv) An obsession with a grossly distorted version of history.

    (v) Revanchist claims on a neighbouring country's territory.

    (vi) Indulgence in the politics of confrontation - especially street politics.

    (vii) Strong attraction to young people and manipulation thereof.

    (viii) Glorification of historical martyr figures, especially those involved in violence.

    (ix) Mapping out of ethnic areas within towns and cities by the display of tribal flags and emblems.

    (x) Association in the near past with extremely violent terrorist groups responsible for countless murders including many women and children.

    (xi) Contemporary association (covert) with violent elements.

    (xii) Left of centre economic policies.

    (xiii) Drawing their support primarily from the lumpen proletariat.

    (xiv) Support for violent groups internationally.

    (xv) Strong opposition to the state of Israel.

    Not all of these traits are unique to the 'far right' - but their inclusion suggests that the group concerned fits very closely the contemporary 'far right' model.

    Oh, I could add one more:

    Political leadership schooled in sophisticated duplicity apparently at odds with the gut instincts of the party rank and file and electoral support base. Transparent to the initiated.

    No matter how you would like to frame things for your own satisfaction JbN, SF are in fact on the left of the political spectrum. There are two right wing parties in the North, the UUP who are Centre-right and the DUP who are squarely on the right.


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  • #12
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    jackbenimble wrote: »
    The OP used the (............)to the initiated.

    I see - stuff and nonsense...theres a shock.


  • #13
    McDougal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 583 ✭✭✭McDougal


    Fine Gael get the hard right vote in Ireland


  • #14
    McDougal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 583 ✭✭✭McDougal


    jackbenimble wrote: »
    The OP used the phrase 'far right'. This has a specific contemporary meaning not to be confused with libertarian free marketeers or conservative groupings such as The UK Conservatives under Thatcher or George Bush Republicans.

    Sinn Fein shares elements of it's philosophy with contemporary European 'far right' groups, such as:

    (i) Elevation of so called national culture beyond the national norm.

    (ii) Hatred of a perceived minority (in this case The Ulster British) including all aspects of said minority's culture.

    (iii) Hatred of a neighbouring state (in this case The UK - especially England).

    (iv) An obsession with a grossly distorted version of history.

    (v) Revanchist claims on a neighbouring country's territory.

    (vi) Indulgence in the politics of confrontation - especially street politics.

    (vii) Strong attraction to young people and manipulation thereof.

    (viii) Glorification of historical martyr figures, especially those involved in violence.

    (ix) Mapping out of ethnic areas within towns and cities by the display of tribal flags and emblems.

    (x) Association in the near past with extremely violent terrorist groups responsible for countless murders including many women and children.

    (xi) Contemporary association (covert) with violent elements.

    (xii) Left of centre economic policies.

    (xiii) Drawing their support primarily from the lumpen proletariat.

    (xiv) Support for violent groups internationally.

    (xv) Strong opposition to the state of Israel.

    Not all of these traits are unique to the 'far right' - but their inclusion suggests that the group concerned fits very closely the contemporary 'far right' model.

    Oh, I could add one more:

    Political leadership schooled in sophisticated duplicity apparently at odds with the gut instincts of the party rank and file and electoral support base. Transparent to the initiated.

    What a load of rubbish. And the far right support the Israeli state as their islamophobia exceeds their anti-semitism.


  • #15
    jock101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 685 ✭✭✭jock101


    Dont forget it has it's own private army! Just like Hitlers Brown shirts then replaced with the SS.


  • #16
    jackbenimble
    Closed Accounts Posts: 289 ✭✭jackbenimble


    dlofnep said:
    That's subjective. Who decides what the "norm" is with regards to national culture. I think you'll find the Irish people as a whole are generally appreciative of their culture.

    'Far Right' parties elevate national culture beyond 'the norm' within their nation.
    Nonsense. Sinn Féin routinely engages in cross-community projects. That's a horrifically sensationalist claim, that's best suited for the likes of The Sun.

    Yes, their military wing's 'cross community projects' included machine gunning members of a minority community to death in places like Kingsmill.
    Nonsense. Sinn Féin doesn't "hate" the UK - But it, along with the nationalist community in general have a general reason to be discontent with the history of British rule in Ireland.

    Hilarious.
    Sinn Féin, along with all nationalists in the North and South view Ireland as a single cultural entity. They are perfectly entitled to seek for it to be a single political entity - keeping in mind that the partition of Ireland was not a democratic process.

    All fascist parties 'plough where the soil is fertile'.


  • #17
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    jackbenimble wrote: »
    dlofnep said:



    'Far Right' parties elevate national culture beyond 'the norm' within their nation.


    And the question was who decides that norm?


    Hilarious.



    All fascist parties 'plough where the soil is fertile'.

    Why bother:rolleyes:


  • #18
    jackbenimble
    Closed Accounts Posts: 289 ✭✭jackbenimble


    karma_ wrote: »
    No matter how you would like to frame things for your own satisfaction JbN, SF are in fact on the left of the political spectrum. There are two right wing parties in the North, the UUP who are Centre-right and the DUP who are squarely on the right.

    How amusing. The UUP are a mainstream centre right party - so much so that they recently had an alliance with The UK Conservative Party. The DUP are a populist party that shares certain characteristics with SF - though obviously not to the same degree.

    SF are not a mainstream left of centre or even left wing party by European standards. They have many characteristics that clearly indicate they are a fascist party. Fascist parties are not right wing conservative parties - they have collectivist economic policies much akin to socialist parties.

    It wasn't called National Socialism for nothing...


  • #19
    jackbenimble
    Closed Accounts Posts: 289 ✭✭jackbenimble


    McDougal wrote: »
    What a load of rubbish. And the far right support the Israeli state as their islamophobia exceeds their anti-semitism.

    Not all 'far right' parties across Europe support Israel. You may be thinking of The BNP, who are neutral on The Israeli/Palestine problem. Many 'far right' parties across Europe remain anti-semitic.


  • #20
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    jackbenimble wrote: »
    'Far Right' parties elevate national culture beyond 'the norm' within their nation.

    You're not very good at this, are you? I advised you that your view was subjective, and asked who were you to decide on behalf of the general population the the appropriate amount of weight is for someone's culture? You can't answer it - because you know that your view is entirely subjective, and that it doesn't actually represent anyone but yourself.
    jackbenimble wrote: »
    Hilarious.

    AKA, you can't actually refute my point?


  • #21
    jackbenimble
    Closed Accounts Posts: 289 ✭✭jackbenimble


    deise go deo wrote: »
    And the question was who decides that norm?





    Why bother:rolleyes:

    I was just thinking the same about your post. If you've nothing constructive to add why post at all?


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  • #22
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    jackbenimble wrote: »
    How amusing. The UUP are a mainstream centre right party - so much so that they recently had an alliance with The UK Conservative Party. The DUP are a populist party that shares certain characteristics with SF - though obviously not to the same degree.

    SF are not a mainstream left of centre or even left wing party by European standards. They have many characteristics that clearly indicate they are a fascist party. Fascist parties are not right wing conservative parties - they have collectivist economic policies much akin to socialist parties.

    The UUP are so mainstream, they didn't win one seat in the last elections. :rolleyes: Nobody outside of Ireland & Britain knows or cares about the UUP. Sinn Féin has the largest mandate in the north out of all parties as of the last election - And it is certainly a left wing party, with left wing policies.

    You're so out of touch with reality, that you attempt to portray Sinn Féin as a right wing party by affirming their "Left of centre economic policies."
    jackbenimble wrote: »
    It wasn't called National Socialism for nothing...

    And today's Godwin award goes to...


  • #23
    jackbenimble
    Closed Accounts Posts: 289 ✭✭jackbenimble


    dlofnep wrote: »
    You're not very good at this, are you? I advised you that your view was subjective, and asked who were you to decide on behalf of the general population the the appropriate amount of weight is for someone's culture? You can't answer it - because you know that your view is entirely subjective, and that it doesn't actually represent anyone but yourself.



    AKA, you can't actually refute my point?

    I'm sorry to disappoint you dlofnep, but you've completely missed the point.

    My use of the word NORM was to mean common, in the sense that national culture is valued to a certain degree by the average man in the street, but valued much higher by a fascist party.


  • #24
    tim_holsters
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭tim_holsters


    Is O'Duffy our Mosley?

    Serious Question.


  • #25
    pwd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,284 ✭✭✭pwd


    tim_holsters wrote: »
    Is O'Duffy our Mosley?

    Serious Question.
    ha they are a Nationalist Socialist party lol


  • #26
    McDougal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 583 ✭✭✭McDougal


    So SF are a far right party? Oh this place is brimming with idiots! They are centre-left populist nationalists


  • #27
    Rubik.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,185 ✭✭✭Rubik.


    Theres the Immigration Control Platform, who ran a candidate in last local elections

    http://www.immigrationcontrol.org/index.html

    And apparently there is such a thing as the Irish National Party (INP).


    http://www.tribune.ie/article/2010/feb/21/nationalist-group-opposed-to-immigration-may-set-u/


  • #28
    tim_holsters
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭tim_holsters


    pwd wrote: »
    ha they are a Nationalist Socialist party lol

    I bet your in the kitchen at your party.


  • #29
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    jackbenimble wrote: »
    I'm sorry to disappoint you dlofnep, but you've completely missed the point.

    On the contrary - I very well understood your point and motive. It doesn't however make your analysis accurate.
    jackbenimble wrote: »
    My use of the word NORM was to mean common, in the sense that national culture is valued to a certain degree by the average man in the street, but valued much higher by a fascist party.

    Your use of the word norm was subjective, and therefore carries no value beyond the scope of your own personal views. Moreover your amusing attempts of association fallacy are very transparent. I suggest coming from a different angle next time.


  • #30
    jackbenimble
    Closed Accounts Posts: 289 ✭✭jackbenimble


    dlofnep said:
    The UUP are so mainstream, they didn't win one seat in the last elections. :rolleyes: Nobody outside of Ireland & Britain knows or cares about the UUP. Sinn Féin has the largest mandate in the north out of all parties as of the last election - And it is certainly a left wing party, with left wing policies.

    You're so out of touch with reality, that you attempt to portray Sinn Féin as a right wing party by affirming their "Left of centre economic policies."

    You're hopeless aren't you? You really should try reading a few books (outside of the usual Irish rubbish). Fascism is not a movement of mainstream conservative parties further to the 'right'. Fascism seeks to implement collectivist or 'pseudo-socialist' economic policies. Fascist parties frequently describe themselves as 'anti-capitalist'. Mussolini described himself as a socialist.

    I never said SF were a 'right wing' party (this would indicate they are something like The UUP or The Conservative party), I said they were 'far right' indicating they shared many of the characteristics of contemporary European fascist parties/groupings including 'left wing' economic policies.
    And today's Godwin award goes to...

    Again, you've dropped the ball. I wasn't directly comparing SF with German National Socialism in the thirties - I was underlining the fact that fascism has a socialist or 'pseudo socialist' component.


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  • #31
    jackbenimble
    Closed Accounts Posts: 289 ✭✭jackbenimble


    McDougal wrote: »
    So SF are a far right party? Oh this place is brimming with idiots! They are centre-left populist nationalists

    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Sounds pretty close to 'far right' to me.


This discussion has been closed.
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