Far right wing in Ireland?

The After Hours Troll

Does Ireland have any far right political parties? I have found none and cant understand why we don't.

Almost every other nation on the planet has a far right political party, and almost certainly every nation in Europe seems to.

Will we see the rise of any of these parties in the 10 years or so, seeing as immigration may become a concern, and many are disillusioned with the current political parties.

Fo Real

This topic was covered very recently

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056048590

The After Hours Troll

Right cheers.

The After Hours Troll

Actually that discussion seems more European based and on just right wing discussion, than far right in Ireland.

jackbenimble

Sinn Fein play that role in Ireland - it's just that most of The Irish can't recognise that fact.

Nodin

jackbenimble wrote: »

Sinn Fein play that role in Ireland - it's just that most of The Irish can't recognise that fact.

A ridiculous assertion with no basis in fact whatsoever.

Amhran Nua

There was some talk among the libertarians hereabouts setting up a right wing party, at least I assume thats what they want.

dlofnep

jackbenimble wrote: »

Sinn Fein play that role in Ireland - it's just that most of The Irish can't recognise that fact.

How exactly do Sinn Féin play a right-wing role?

jackbenimble

dlofnep wrote: »

How exactly do Sinn Féin play a right-wing role?

The OP used the phrase 'far right'. This has a specific contemporary meaning not to be confused with libertarian free marketeers or conservative groupings such as The UK Conservatives under Thatcher or George Bush Republicans.

Sinn Fein shares elements of it's philosophy with contemporary European 'far right' groups, such as:

(i) Elevation of so called national culture beyond the national norm.

(ii) Hatred of a perceived minority (in this case The Ulster British) including all aspects of said minority's culture.

(iii) Hatred of a neighbouring state (in this case The UK - especially England).

(iv) An obsession with a grossly distorted version of history.

(v) Revanchist claims on a neighbouring country's territory.

(vi) Indulgence in the politics of confrontation - especially street politics.

(vii) Strong attraction to young people and manipulation thereof.

(viii) Glorification of historical martyr figures, especially those involved in violence.

(ix) Mapping out of ethnic areas within towns and cities by the display of tribal flags and emblems.

(x) Association in the near past with extremely violent terrorist groups responsible for countless murders including many women and children.

(xi) Contemporary association (covert) with violent elements.

(xii) Left of centre economic policies.

(xiii) Drawing their support primarily from the lumpen proletariat.

(xiv) Support for violent groups internationally.

(xv) Strong opposition to the state of Israel.

Not all of these traits are unique to the 'far right' - but their inclusion suggests that the group concerned fits very closely the contemporary 'far right' model.

Oh, I could add one more:

Political leadership schooled in sophisticated duplicity apparently at odds with the gut instincts of the party rank and file and electoral support base. Transparent to the initiated.

dlofnep

jackbenimble wrote: »

(i) Elevation of so called national culture beyond the national norm.

That's subjective. Who decides what the "norm" is with regards to national culture. I think you'll find the Irish people as a whole are generally appreciative of their culture.

jackbenimble wrote: »

(ii) Hatred of a perceived minority (in this case The Ulster British) including all aspects of said minority's culture.

Nonsense. Sinn Féin routinely engages in cross-community projects. That's a horrifically sensationalist claim, that's best suited for the likes of The Sun.

jackbenimble wrote: »

(iii) Hatred of a neighbouring state (in this case The UK - especially England).

Nonsense. Sinn Féin doesn't "hate" the UK - But it, along with the nationalist community in general have a general reason to be discontent with the history of British rule in Ireland.

jackbenimble wrote: »

(iv) An obsession with a grossly distorted version of history.

Nonsense. Examples?

jackbenimble wrote: »

(v) Revanchist claims on a neighbouring country's territory.

Sinn Féin, along with all nationalists in the North and South view Ireland as a single cultural entity. They are perfectly entitled to seek for it to be a single political entity - keeping in mind that the partition of Ireland was not a democratic process.

jackbenimble wrote: »

(vi) Indulgence in the politics of confrontation - especially street politics.

This doesn't merit a response. I suppose the old age pensioners who gathered together to protest the medical card cuts, or those who gathered to protest healthcare cuts are far right also? You seem to have a problem with people's democratic right to publicly gather to express their views or qualms.

jackbenimble wrote: »

(vii) Strong attraction to young people and manipulation thereof.

What in the holy hell are you on about?

jackbenimble wrote: »

(viii) Glorification of historical martyr figures, especially those involved in violence.

All nations remember those who fought for their political freedom. America included.

jackbenimble wrote: »

(ix) Mapping out of ethnic areas within towns and cities by the display of tribal flags and emblems.

That has nothing to do with Sinn Féin - but rather to do with the social landscape that exists in the north on both sides of the community. There is absolutely nothing wrong or right wing about flying your flag.

jackbenimble wrote: »

(xii) Left of centre economic policies.

And that has what to do with being right wing?

jackbenimble wrote: »

(xiii) Drawing their support primarily from the lumpen proletariat.

Nonsense, and moreover - Snobbery elitist bollocks.

jackbenimble wrote: »

(xiv) Support for violent groups internationally.

Do you support American violence in Iraq and Afghanistan?

jackbenimble wrote: »

(xv) Strong opposition to the state of Israel.

There is no opposition to the state of Israel - There is a rightful opposition to the illegal occupation of Palestinian territories by Israel.

jackbenimble wrote: »

Not all of these traits are unique to the 'far right' - but their inclusion suggests that the group concerned fits very closely the contemporary 'far right' model.

I don't know whether to laugh, or to sigh.

karma_

jackbenimble wrote: »

The OP used the phrase 'far right'. This has a specific contemporary meaning not to be confused with libertarian free marketeers or conservative groupings such as The UK Conservatives under Thatcher or George Bush Republicans.

Sinn Fein shares elements of it's philosophy with contemporary European 'far right' groups, such as:

(i) Elevation of so called national culture beyond the national norm.

(ii) Hatred of a perceived minority (in this case The Ulster British) including all aspects of said minority's culture.

(iii) Hatred of a neighbouring state (in this case The UK - especially England).

(iv) An obsession with a grossly distorted version of history.

(v) Revanchist claims on a neighbouring country's territory.

(vi) Indulgence in the politics of confrontation - especially street politics.

(vii) Strong attraction to young people and manipulation thereof.

(viii) Glorification of historical martyr figures, especially those involved in violence.

(ix) Mapping out of ethnic areas within towns and cities by the display of tribal flags and emblems.

(x) Association in the near past with extremely violent terrorist groups responsible for countless murders including many women and children.

(xi) Contemporary association (covert) with violent elements.

(xii) Left of centre economic policies.

(xiii) Drawing their support primarily from the lumpen proletariat.

(xiv) Support for violent groups internationally.

(xv) Strong opposition to the state of Israel.

Not all of these traits are unique to the 'far right' - but their inclusion suggests that the group concerned fits very closely the contemporary 'far right' model.

Oh, I could add one more:

Political leadership schooled in sophisticated duplicity apparently at odds with the gut instincts of the party rank and file and electoral support base. Transparent to the initiated.

No matter how you would like to frame things for your own satisfaction JbN, SF are in fact on the left of the political spectrum. There are two right wing parties in the North, the UUP who are Centre-right and the DUP who are squarely on the right.

Nodin

jackbenimble wrote: »

The OP used the (............)to the initiated.

I see - stuff and nonsense...theres a shock.

McDougal

Fine Gael get the hard right vote in Ireland

McDougal

jackbenimble wrote: »

The OP used the phrase 'far right'. This has a specific contemporary meaning not to be confused with libertarian free marketeers or conservative groupings such as The UK Conservatives under Thatcher or George Bush Republicans.

Sinn Fein shares elements of it's philosophy with contemporary European 'far right' groups, such as:

(i) Elevation of so called national culture beyond the national norm.

(ii) Hatred of a perceived minority (in this case The Ulster British) including all aspects of said minority's culture.

(iii) Hatred of a neighbouring state (in this case The UK - especially England).

(iv) An obsession with a grossly distorted version of history.

(v) Revanchist claims on a neighbouring country's territory.

(vi) Indulgence in the politics of confrontation - especially street politics.

(vii) Strong attraction to young people and manipulation thereof.

(viii) Glorification of historical martyr figures, especially those involved in violence.

(ix) Mapping out of ethnic areas within towns and cities by the display of tribal flags and emblems.

(x) Association in the near past with extremely violent terrorist groups responsible for countless murders including many women and children.

(xi) Contemporary association (covert) with violent elements.

(xii) Left of centre economic policies.

(xiii) Drawing their support primarily from the lumpen proletariat.

(xiv) Support for violent groups internationally.

(xv) Strong opposition to the state of Israel.

Not all of these traits are unique to the 'far right' - but their inclusion suggests that the group concerned fits very closely the contemporary 'far right' model.

Oh, I could add one more:

Political leadership schooled in sophisticated duplicity apparently at odds with the gut instincts of the party rank and file and electoral support base. Transparent to the initiated.

What a load of rubbish. And the far right support the Israeli state as their islamophobia exceeds their anti-semitism.

jock101

Dont forget it has it's own private army! Just like Hitlers Brown shirts then replaced with the SS.

jackbenimble

dlofnep said:

That's subjective. Who decides what the "norm" is with regards to national culture. I think you'll find the Irish people as a whole are generally appreciative of their culture.

'Far Right' parties elevate national culture beyond 'the norm' within their nation.

Nonsense. Sinn Féin routinely engages in cross-community projects. That's a horrifically sensationalist claim, that's best suited for the likes of The Sun.

Yes, their military wing's 'cross community projects' included machine gunning members of a minority community to death in places like Kingsmill.

Nonsense. Sinn Féin doesn't "hate" the UK - But it, along with the nationalist community in general have a general reason to be discontent with the history of British rule in Ireland.

Hilarious.

Sinn Féin, along with all nationalists in the North and South view Ireland as a single cultural entity. They are perfectly entitled to seek for it to be a single political entity - keeping in mind that the partition of Ireland was not a democratic process.

All fascist parties 'plough where the soil is fertile'.

deise go deo

jackbenimble wrote: »

dlofnep said:



'Far Right' parties elevate national culture beyond 'the norm' within their nation.

And the question was who decides that norm?

Hilarious.



All fascist parties 'plough where the soil is fertile'.

Why bother:rolleyes:

jackbenimble

karma_ wrote: »

No matter how you would like to frame things for your own satisfaction JbN, SF are in fact on the left of the political spectrum. There are two right wing parties in the North, the UUP who are Centre-right and the DUP who are squarely on the right.

How amusing. The UUP are a mainstream centre right party - so much so that they recently had an alliance with The UK Conservative Party. The DUP are a populist party that shares certain characteristics with SF - though obviously not to the same degree.

SF are not a mainstream left of centre or even left wing party by European standards. They have many characteristics that clearly indicate they are a fascist party. Fascist parties are not right wing conservative parties - they have collectivist economic policies much akin to socialist parties.

It wasn't called National Socialism for nothing...

jackbenimble

McDougal wrote: »

What a load of rubbish. And the far right support the Israeli state as their islamophobia exceeds their anti-semitism.

Not all 'far right' parties across Europe support Israel. You may be thinking of The BNP, who are neutral on The Israeli/Palestine problem. Many 'far right' parties across Europe remain anti-semitic.

dlofnep

jackbenimble wrote: »

'Far Right' parties elevate national culture beyond 'the norm' within their nation.

You're not very good at this, are you? I advised you that your view was subjective, and asked who were you to decide on behalf of the general population the the appropriate amount of weight is for someone's culture? You can't answer it - because you know that your view is entirely subjective, and that it doesn't actually represent anyone but yourself.

jackbenimble wrote: »

Hilarious.

AKA, you can't actually refute my point?

jackbenimble

deise go deo wrote: »

And the question was who decides that norm?





Why bother:rolleyes:

I was just thinking the same about your post. If you've nothing constructive to add why post at all?

dlofnep

jackbenimble wrote: »

How amusing. The UUP are a mainstream centre right party - so much so that they recently had an alliance with The UK Conservative Party. The DUP are a populist party that shares certain characteristics with SF - though obviously not to the same degree.

SF are not a mainstream left of centre or even left wing party by European standards. They have many characteristics that clearly indicate they are a fascist party. Fascist parties are not right wing conservative parties - they have collectivist economic policies much akin to socialist parties.

The UUP are so mainstream, they didn't win one seat in the last elections. :rolleyes: Nobody outside of Ireland & Britain knows or cares about the UUP. Sinn Féin has the largest mandate in the north out of all parties as of the last election - And it is certainly a left wing party, with left wing policies.

You're so out of touch with reality, that you attempt to portray Sinn Féin as a right wing party by affirming their "Left of centre economic policies."

jackbenimble wrote: »

It wasn't called National Socialism for nothing...

And today's Godwin award goes to...

jackbenimble

dlofnep wrote: »

You're not very good at this, are you? I advised you that your view was subjective, and asked who were you to decide on behalf of the general population the the appropriate amount of weight is for someone's culture? You can't answer it - because you know that your view is entirely subjective, and that it doesn't actually represent anyone but yourself.



AKA, you can't actually refute my point?

I'm sorry to disappoint you dlofnep, but you've completely missed the point.

My use of the word NORM was to mean common, in the sense that national culture is valued to a certain degree by the average man in the street, but valued much higher by a fascist party.

tim_holsters

Is O'Duffy our Mosley?

Serious Question.

pwd

tim_holsters wrote: »

Is O'Duffy our Mosley?

Serious Question.

ha they are a Nationalist Socialist party lol

McDougal

So SF are a far right party? Oh this place is brimming with idiots! They are centre-left populist nationalists

Rubik.

Theres the Immigration Control Platform, who ran a candidate in last local elections

http://www.immigrationcontrol.org/index.html

And apparently there is such a thing as the Irish National Party (INP).


http://www.tribune.ie/article/2010/feb/21/nationalist-group-opposed-to-immigration-may-set-u/

tim_holsters

pwd wrote: »

ha they are a Nationalist Socialist party lol

I bet your in the kitchen at your party.

dlofnep

jackbenimble wrote: »

I'm sorry to disappoint you dlofnep, but you've completely missed the point.

On the contrary - I very well understood your point and motive. It doesn't however make your analysis accurate.

jackbenimble wrote: »

My use of the word NORM was to mean common, in the sense that national culture is valued to a certain degree by the average man in the street, but valued much higher by a fascist party.

Your use of the word norm was subjective, and therefore carries no value beyond the scope of your own personal views. Moreover your amusing attempts of association fallacy are very transparent. I suggest coming from a different angle next time.

jackbenimble

dlofnep said:

The UUP are so mainstream, they didn't win one seat in the last elections. :rolleyes: Nobody outside of Ireland & Britain knows or cares about the UUP. Sinn Féin has the largest mandate in the north out of all parties as of the last election - And it is certainly a left wing party, with left wing policies.

You're so out of touch with reality, that you attempt to portray Sinn Féin as a right wing party by affirming their "Left of centre economic policies."

You're hopeless aren't you? You really should try reading a few books (outside of the usual Irish rubbish). Fascism is not a movement of mainstream conservative parties further to the 'right'. Fascism seeks to implement collectivist or 'pseudo-socialist' economic policies. Fascist parties frequently describe themselves as 'anti-capitalist'. Mussolini described himself as a socialist.

I never said SF were a 'right wing' party (this would indicate they are something like The UUP or The Conservative party), I said they were 'far right' indicating they shared many of the characteristics of contemporary European fascist parties/groupings including 'left wing' economic policies.

And today's Godwin award goes to...

Again, you've dropped the ball. I wasn't directly comparing SF with German National Socialism in the thirties - I was underlining the fact that fascism has a socialist or 'pseudo socialist' component.

jackbenimble

McDougal wrote: »

So SF are a far right party? Oh this place is brimming with idiots! They are centre-left populist nationalists

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Sounds pretty close to 'far right' to me.

dlofnep

jackbenimble wrote: »

You're hopeless aren't you?

I'm beginning to feel hopeless with some of the posts on here if I must be frank.

jackbenimble wrote: »

You really should try reading a few books (outside of the usual Irish rubbish).

I don't remember sharing my reading list with you at any point.

jackbenimble wrote: »

Fascism is not a movement of mainstream conservative parties further to the 'right'. Fascism seeks to implement collectivist or 'pseudo-socialist' economic policies. Fascist parties frequently describe themselves as 'anti-capitalist'. Mussolini described himself as a socialist.

I'm well aware what fascism is. You however don't seem to be aware what association fallacy is. In brief



Sinn Féin for example is an internationalist party, which is pro-immigration and integration - a party which is appreciative of other cultures. These are not values that exist within a fascist mindset.

jackbenimble wrote: »

I never said SF were a 'right wing' party (this would indicate they are something like The UUP or The Conservative party), I said they were 'far right' indicating they shared many of the characteristics of contemporary European fascist parties/groupings including 'left wing' economic policies.

Please see the above venn-diagram.

jackbenimble wrote: »

Again, you've dropped the ball. I wasn't directly comparing SF with German National Socialism in the thirties - I was underlining the fact that fascism has a socialist or 'pseudo socialist' component.

I don't think you're getting any of this.

GisforGrenade

The After Hours Troll wrote: »

seeing as immigration may become a concern.

Got a good laugh out of that, we are going to have nothing but emigration for the next ten years. Who in their right mind would move to this country in the state its in? Not that there won't be anger directed to those immigrants that have made their home here, but an immigrant who pays their taxes rates a hell of a lot higher in my book than most of the bankers, developers and politicians in this country.

blubloblu

Libertas?

CrankyCod

The reason why there is no far-right party in Ireland is the same reason that there is no far-left party: we don't do ideology, in fact we don't believe in anything at all. We operate a primitive tribalism where we follow a succession of chiefs, who appear to be elected but the choice of candidates is limited to the members of a few extended families.

At present we're just waiting for the next Dev or Michael Collins to appear and lead us out of our misery. That's why 27% of people believe Brian Lenihan is the best man to dig us out of the crisis, even though by any rational critieria the chap has failed, is failing and will continue to fail.

But he fits the profile so he must be the next ""big man"...

karma_

jackbenimble wrote: »

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Sounds pretty close to 'far right' to me.

Your posts make me tired.

If you can imagine a point as far away from fact as yours is, then you are pretty much spot on. Well done, lets get on with life.


I think it's fantastic that Ulster unionists are taking the time to visit boards, but for fcuks sake try to try to make posts with some semblance of reason or fact.

McDougal

jackbenimble wrote: »

dlofnep said:



You're hopeless aren't you? You really should try reading a few books (outside of the usual Irish rubbish). Fascism is not a movement of mainstream conservative parties further to the 'right'. Fascism seeks to implement collectivist or 'pseudo-socialist' economic policies. Fascist parties frequently describe themselves as 'anti-capitalist'. Mussolini described himself as a socialist.

I never said SF were a 'right wing' party (this would indicate they are something like The UUP or The Conservative party), I said they were 'far right' indicating they shared many of the characteristics of contemporary European fascist parties/groupings including 'left wing' economic policies.



Again, you've dropped the ball. I wasn't directly comparing SF with German National Socialism in the thirties - I was underlining the fact that fascism has a socialist or 'pseudo socialist' component.

That's rubbish. Mussolini turned his back on socialism and became involved in gloifying the imperialist war of 1914-1918. His blackshirts were supported by the rich and powerful, the king, the church and business people. Hitler and the nazis were funded by rich right wing industrialists. The main goal of fascists is preserving the privilege of the rich and the ruling class. Just look at Franco in Spain. Fascists are always firmly opposed by socialists and communists and all the left. The right wingers in Britain were initially very sympathetic to the fascists in the 30s. The Daily Mail which was Britains leading right wing paper supported Mussolini and Hitler and Mosley.

rigumagoo

dlofnep wrote: »

Sinn Féin for example is an internationalist party, which is pro-immigration and integration - a party which is appreciative of other cultures. These are not values that exist within a fascist mindset.

a party which is appreciative of other cultures

which is pro-immigration

:rolleyes:

and integration

oh god I LOL'd so hard

dlofnep

rigumagoo wrote: »

:rolleyes:



oh god I LOL'd so hard

Well - Perhaps you might offer a rebuttal instead of rolling your eyes?

Nodin

rigumagoo wrote: »

:rolleyes:



oh god I LOL'd so hard

Your time might be better spent aqquainting yourself with SF policy than posting smilies in a manner which reveals your ignorance of the facts.

Fo Real

Sinn Féin are a considered a joke and will never get into government in the South becasue of their hypocritical nature. They are willing to give up the Irish freedom they fought so hard for and hand the country over to third world immigrants. "BRITS OUT, BLACKS IN" seems to be their modern day slogan. They organise civil rights marches for jobs for Catholics up North, and then they invite Nigerians over (who have zero historical connection to Ireland) to take our jobs. They fly the Palestinian flag simply because the Unionists fly the Israeli one. They argue No for the sake of disagreement. They thrive on being the underdog.

And I won't even explain how a United Ireand is economic suicide - it's been done a million times. Even the most hardcore Shinner will admite this. But after all, Sinn Féin are a one-issue party with no well thought out policies on anything other than "get the Brits outs". The British - who built this country's infrastructure. Imagine building a national railway nework under gombeen Irish government! Laughable!

Nodin

Fo Real wrote: »

Sinn Féin are a considered a joke and will never get into government in the South becasue of their hypocritical nature. They are willing to give up the Irish freedom they fought so hard for and hand the country over to third world immigrants. "BRITS OUT, BLACKS IN" seems to be their modern day slogan. They organise civil rights marches for jobs for Catholics up North, and then they invite Nigerians over (who have zero historical connection to Ireland) to take our jobs. ..........................

I'd like to know what the comment "Brits out, Blacks in" is based on, with specific reference to SF policy. Likewise I'd like to know - again with specific reference to SF policy - where "they invite Nigerians over.....to take our jobs" comes from. Extracts from speeches by leading SF members will do in a pinch for either.

You might also explain in detail what exactly you mean by "They are willing to give up the Irish freedom they fought so hard for and hand the country over to third world immigrants" as this seems to make no relation to even the wildest reading of any SF statement I've heard, and I've been voting SF some 23 years now.

dlofnep

Fo Real wrote: »

They are willing to give up the Irish freedom they fought so hard for and hand the country over to third world immigrants. "BRITS OUT, BLACKS IN" seems to be their modern day slogan. They organise civil rights marches for jobs for Catholics up North, and then they invite Nigerians over (who have zero historical connection to Ireland) to take our jobs.

Slow day on Stormfront?

Fo Real wrote: »

They fly the Palestinian flag simply because the Unionists fly the Israeli one.

It has nothing to do with reactionary politics. You lack any understanding on why anyone would empathise with the Palestinian situation.

Fo Real wrote: »

But after all, Sinn Féin are a one-issue party with no well thought out policies on anything other than "get the Brits outs".

What policies exactly on the latest pre-budget submission did you take issue with? I'm willing to go out on a limb and say that you're one of those who makes claims like this, but yet never actually read their submissions to put you in a position to actually critique them. It's all well and good to say that they are a one-issue party - as it allows you to avoid actually discussing their policies.

Fo Real

Nodin wrote: »

..... and I've been voting SF some 23 years now.

First off, let me just say wow. I had you pegged as a leftie Nodin, but a Shinner?! You really are in a tiny minority. The rest of the country despise Sinn Féin and the general consensus is they are a bunch of thugs. Regarding the 23 years...well, your outdated opinions will die out along with your generation, thanks god.

Regarding Sinn Féin's "Brits out, Blacks in" motto: They, along with a coaliton of lefties (Socialist Party, Labour, Greens) opposed the Citizenship referendum of 2004. It was passed with a landslide majority of course, as Ireland usually does the opposite of what Sinn Féin supports. It's a good indicator of what the right answer is. Allow me to post a video of Gerry Adams, King of the Beards, during his photo op with a gang of blacks outside the Dáil:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yJ87y7BR80&feature=player_embedded#!

dlofnep

Fo Real wrote: »

First off, let me just say wow. I had you pegged as a leftie Nodin, but a Shinner?! You really are in a tiny minority. The rest of the country despise Sinn Féin and the general consensus is they are a bunch of thugs. Regarding the 23 years...well, your outdated opinions will die out along with your generation, thanks god.

He's perfectly entitled to express his democratic right, and vote for whoever he wants. You don't have the right to chastise him for his vote. This is a democracy we live in - Not an authoritarian state.

Fo Real wrote: »

Regarding Sinn Féin's "Brits out, Blacks in" motto: They, along with a coaliton of lefties (Socialist Party, Labour, Greens) opposed the Citizenship referendum of 2004. It was passed with a landslide majority of course, as Ireland usually does the opposite of what Sinn Féin supports. It's a good indicator of what the right answer is. Allow me to post a video of Gerry Adams, King of the Beards, during his photo op with a gang of blacks outside the Dáil:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yJ87y7BR80&feature=player_embedded#!

Racist dribble.

Nodin

Fo Real wrote: »

First off, (.....), thanks god.

If I wanted to know, I would have asked.

Fo Real wrote: »

Regarding Sinn Féin's "Brits out, Blacks in" motto: They, along with a coaliton of lefties (Socialist Party, Labour, Greens) opposed the Citizenship referendum of 2004. It was passed with a landslide majority of course, as Ireland usually does the opposite of what Sinn Féin supports. It's a good indicator of what the right answer is. Allow me to post a video of Gerry Adams, King of the Beards, during his photo op with a gang of blacks outside the Dáil:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yJ87y7BR80&feature=player_embedded#!

Opposition to the citizeship referendum does not logically equate to "Brits out, Blacks in". Even taking it as its crudest level, there are countries outside the EU etc that are not populated by dark skinned people, suprising as you might find it.

Is there something wrong with being seen with a group of Africans now?

You didn't answer my question with regard to "they invite Nigerians over.....to take our jobs" or "They are willing to give up the Irish freedom they fought so hard for and hand the country over to third world immigrants".

southsiderosie

Whether you like Sinn Fein or not, they are surprisingly open to immigration given the fact that they are essentially a nationalist party. From what I've read of their party platform, and the conversations I've had with SF officials, both in NI and the Republic (particularly in NI), they are very conscious about minority issues, which when you think about it isn't that surprising, given their politics and history.

I would also add that the nationalist community in the north has a MUCH better record on dealing with the day-to-day issues around immigration than the unionist/loyalist community. The vast majority of physical attacks on immigrants stem from the loyalist community; there is a reason why the immigrant population in South Belfast is gravitating towards the Lower Ormeau and away from the Village area. This is not to say that nationalists are perfect, but both in terms of their politics and their attitudes on the ground, they are surprisingly progressive.

That said, I would agree with the earlier poster than by and large, Irish voters don't seem to be overly interested in strong "isms" on the left or right, with the notable exception of nationalism.

newmug

southsiderosie wrote: »

Whether you like Sinn Fein or not, they are surprisingly open to immigration given the fact that they are essentially a nationalist party. From what I've read of their party platform, and the conversations I've had with SF officials, both in NI and the Republic (particularly in NI), they are very conscious about minority issues, which when you think about it isn't that surprising, given their politics and history.

I would also add that the nationalist community in the north has a MUCH better record on dealing with the day-to-day issues around immigration than the unionist/loyalist community. The vast majority of physical attacks on immigrants stem from the loyalist community; there is a reason why the immigrant population in South Belfast is gravitating towards the Lower Ormeau and away from the Village area. This is not to say that nationalists are perfect, but both in terms of their politics and their attitudes on the ground, they are surprisingly progressive.

That said, I would agree with the earlier poster than by and large, Irish voters don't seem to be overly interested in strong "isms" on the left or right, with the notable exception of nationalism.

What exactly does that mean? Their "politics" always was, and never has been anything but, to fight for equality and fairness, even to the point of facing a violent death at the hands of the british army. I dont know of ANY party to put their money where their mouth is as much as Sinn Fein.

southsiderosie

newmug wrote: »

What exactly does that mean? Their "politics" always was, and never has been anything but, to fight for equality and fairness, even to the point of facing a violent death at the hands of the british army. I dont know of ANY party to put their money where their mouth is as much as Sinn Fein.

Because nationalism is generally quite exclusionary and often reactionary, so they are a bit of an outlier in this regard.

Jesus, calm down.

Fo Real

dlofnep wrote: »

He's perfectly entitled to express his democratic right, and vote for whoever he wants. You don't have the right to chastise him for his vote. This is a democracy we live in - Not an authoritarian state.

You're right - he is entiled to vote for whoever he wants. And I'm not chastising him, I was just surprised. I had a guarded respect for Nodin as a political commentator on this forum, even if I didn't agree with him. That respect has immediately vanished. He doesn't have to answer this, but I wonder does he live in a constituency where his Sinn Féin vote actually matters? Theres no point being a Shinner in the Carlow-Kilkenny constituency where your single vote will be drowned out in a sea of FF votes.

Racist dribble.

You are becoming a parody of yourself. Playing the racist card is the oldest trick in the book to avoid dealing with the issue.

I suppose 79.17% of Ireland is also racist? It doesn't really matter, the citizenship referendum was passed with a landslide. The childern of non-nationals will never be considered Irish . You are 7 years late. In the future, you Shinners will do your side more help by staying silent. Everytime Sinn Féin supports an issue, it sends the middle of the road voters running to the opposite side.

Nodin

Fo Real wrote: »

You're right - .........drowned out in a sea of FF votes..

You would be better advised to deal with the issues raised in relation to the subject of the thread than wondering about such irrelevancies. There are also a number of questions that you have yet to answer.

Fo Real wrote: »

You are becoming a parody of yourself. Playing the racist card is the oldest trick in the book to avoid dealing with the issue...

....but you are openly racist.

Fo Real wrote: »

I suppose 79.17% of Ireland is also racist? It doesn't really matter, the citizenship referendum was passed with a landslide. The childern of non-nationals will never be considered Irish . ...

....unless their parents become citizens.