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Mass rapes in DR Congo.

2

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    WindSock wrote: »
    Why do you have to resort to this kind of posting when refuting someone elses? I am sure you are aware that not everyone has studied history or whatever it is you study or have studied yourself. You obviously have a lot of knowledge on some subjects to share but why you have to call people incredibly ignorant in any discussion smacks of your own head being stuck up your proverbial.

    Well Windsock, I didn't realise you were an AH mod but basically when a post is silly I call it that. I don't intend to change that for you.
    Morlar is very into his history so that excuse doesn't work in this case. And the issue at hand was not ignorance of history but his blasé attitude to the Congo and a desire to ignore the worst excesses and crimes of foreign business in the Congo. It was not a lack of knowledge but an overt willingness to misrepresent the situation in the Congo and act as if the Congolese people are backward or always looking for outside help to fix their problems. He then went on to make a lazy commentary about 'Liberal Ireland', basically another way of saying the PC brigade are going to complain, the pretty common theme in AH when someone wants to bash a race/class/country and pretend they're not the bad guys....

    Btw you were a little slow on editing your post, too bad that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    No one has to be a mod to point out their distaste at a persons posting style. It is something I have noticed and giving my opinion that it does not add to your wealth of information when you berate people or their posts in that fashion. imo. Same with anyone else really.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,984 ✭✭✭fonecrusher1


    Pretty disgusting actually.The country is practically lawless.

    Im not going to go down the lets blame The West route but if there was oil reserves found in dr Congo, you would have a lot more interest from the likes of America.

    They have a habit of taking an interest in oil rich countries. Can't think why...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,244 ✭✭✭✭bnt


    Here we go again with the "blame game", the crimes of the past being used to justify the crimes of today. Here's the deal: DR Congo has a government; governments are charged with the protection of the country and its people; the government of DR Congo is failing to discharge its sworn duty under its Constitution.

    What else matters? When you promise to do a job, the mature, professional thing to do is to do it. Only kids and amateurs promise things, then try to cop out make excuses. The police forces of DR Congo swore oaths to uphold the Constitution, and should suffer the consequences of not doing so. Any less, you don't have a country under rule of law.

    Government resting upon the will and universal suffrage of the people has no anchorage except in the people's intelligence.

    — Grover Cleveland



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    Btw you were a little slow on editing your post, too bad that.

    In fairness to Windsock, Scarface was just on in Cineworld :p


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    WindSock wrote: »
    No one has to be a mod to point out their distaste at a persons posting style. It is something I have noticed and giving my opinion that it does not add to your wealth of information when you berate people or their posts in that fashion. imo. Same with anyone else really.
    Get over yourself ffs, dont derail the thread.



    Truly shocking. What is the actually point of the rapes? Make the villages afraid?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Get over yourself ffs, dont derail the thread.

    Truly shocking. What is the actually point of the rapes? Make the villages afraid?

    That, and a crude form of 'reward' for the troops/militias involved, presumably.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,453 ✭✭✭jugger0


    Anyone bitching about the recession should read up on stuff like this, we are so lucky!

    Anyways sending troops in is going to get bad publicity, and not doing so will get bad publicity... it is a lose lose situation.

    Its not as if UN troops do anything anyways, they just stay in their bases and go out on the odd patrol, they're no allowed engage enemy forces unless they are fired at first and the militia arent that stupid.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,984 ✭✭✭fonecrusher1


    bnt wrote: »
    Here we go again with the "blame game", the crimes of the past being used to justify the crimes of today. Here's the deal: DR Congo has a government; governments are charged with the protection of the country and its people; the government of DR Congo is failing to discharge its sworn duty under its Constitution.

    What else matters? When you promise to do a job, the mature, professional thing to do is to do it. Only kids and amateurs promise things, then try to cop out make excuses. The police forces of DR Congo swore oaths to uphold the Constitution, and should suffer the consequences of not doing so. Any less, you don't have a country under rule of law.

    Ever heard of the word corruption?

    If they can't restore some sort of balance to these remote towns then there should be an outside intervention. No one wants anything to do with dr congo, its a mess.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Truly shocking. What is the actually point of the rapes? Make the villages afraid?

    The docu I watched covered a lot of the 'why' it happens.

    You'll have to do some jiggery pokery to watch it, as it's on the BBC iPlayer.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00v781z/Kids_with_Guns_Stacey_Dooley_Investigates/


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    And the issue at hand was not ignorance of history but his blasé attitude to the Congo and a desire to ignore the worst excesses and crimes of foreign business in the Congo.

    Blaming the west for this is a cop out and it is the same old schtick.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,584 ✭✭✭digme


    curlzy wrote: »
    http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18/20101015/twl-dr-congo-troops-accused-in-new-rape-696b303.html

    "DR Congo government troops are raping and killing women in remote villages where hundreds were the victims of mass rapes by militias just a few weeks ago, a top UN envoy has said.
    Margot Wallstrom, UN special envoy on sexual violence against women in conflict, said it was "unimaginable" that the same communities in the mineral-rich eastern Democratic Republic of Congo were again the target of sexual assaults.


    She said the UN mission, MONUSCO, had reported new attacks in the Walikale region where in late July and August militias and Rwandan rebels rounded up women and raped them in front of their villages and families.
    Wallstrom has in the past called DR Congo the "rape capital" of the world.
    "I am gravely concerned about the ongoing military operations by FARDC (DR Congo army) in the Walikale territory and the implications for the protection of civilians," she told the UN Security Council on Thursday.
    "Thousands of FARDC troops have now been deployed to the territory in an operation to implement the president's moratorium on mining in the area and to reassert government control.
    "There is already some information from MONUSCO peacekeepers on the ground that rapes, killings and lootings have been perpetrated by FARDC soldiers.
    "The possibility that the same communities that were brutalized in July and August by FDLR and Mai-Mai elements are now also suffering exactions at the hands of FARDC troops is unimaginable and unacceptable."
    Wallstrom called on the DR Congo government to quickly investigate the new attacks and "hold any perpetrators to account."
    She had blamed the rebel Democratic Forces for the Liberation of Rwanda (FDLR) and Mai-Mai militia for the mass rapes in July and August.
    A Mai-Mai leader, Lieutenant Colonel Mayele, was arrested in an operation by Indian peacekeepers with the MONUSCO mission on October 5.
    Wallstrom praised the Indian soldiers and called the arrest of Mayele an "important precedent".
    "When commanders can no longer rest easy in the certainty of impunity, when it begins to cross their mind that they may be turned in by their own, for commissioning or condoning rape, this is the moment when we open a new front in the battle to end impunity," she said.
    She said the Security Council should "escalate" the focus of the DR Congo sanctions committee on sexual crimes.
    Wallstrom identified a militia leader, Lieutenant Colonel Seraphim, of the FDLR, and said he should be added to the list of those facing international sanctions, alleging that he was also to blamed for the mass rapes in July and August.
    Wallstrom said the arrests sent a strong signal to the thousands of victims of rape in DR Congo each year, calling it: "A moment of solace, that the world is not blind to their plight."
    But also highlighted what she called the "nexus" between the pattern of rapes and attacks and the presence of the huge mineral and natural resource wealth in eastern DR Congo.
    "The mineral wealth that should be the source of their great prosperity is instead the source of their greatest suffering," she declared.
    Wallstrom said that UN peacekeepers in DR Congo are "overstretched and under-resourced" with a "widening gap" between the expectations made of the force and the means it is given.
    "They are demoralized by the sheer scale of the problems and constant barrage of criticism from all quarters."
    MONUSCO has about 20,000 staff and troops from more than 50 countries. Costing more than 1.3 billion dollars a year, it is one of the world's biggest UN security operations."




    Anyone else glad they don't live in DR Congo?

    Africa is a ****ing ****hole and they should not be allowed into ireland you don't know who your getting.Sick bastards


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,708 ✭✭✭curlzy


    digme wrote: »
    Africa is a ****ing ****hole and they should not be allowed into ireland you don't know who your getting.Sick bastards

    FACEPALM AND DOUBLE FACEPALM, and also alot of tutting and shaking of head.:(


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,584 ✭✭✭digme


    whys that?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,708 ✭✭✭curlzy


    I think blaming the DR Congo for the state they're in is kinda like blaming the victims of the mass rapes. DR Congo has been methaphorically raped for decades, by the west and who ever else, to me it really doesn't matter because the powers that be that cause sh*t like this NEVER pay, so why spend time and energy on that? After the country is fixed we could concentrate on bringing people to justice but at the moment that wouldn't do a thing for the people. Personnally, this type of suffering is so epically beyond anything I can even imagine that I would have ZERO problem with our country giving peace keepers, doctors, money etc. I know our economy is bad (blah blah blah) but we know nothing of suffering compared to the DR Congo. It's just so sad, it's the type of thing that just makes me kinda sorry to be human, because how we can be so very scummy to each other is just stomach turning.

    :rolleyes: Happy friday everyone. I'm gonna go look for a happy story to make into a thread, sorry for being such a ruiner of fun!!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    Morlar wrote: »
    Blaming the west for this is a cop out and it is the same old schtick.

    How did Moboto stay in power so? What companies and countries are making money from illegal mining and extraction? Who has the UN consistently blamed for the biggest problems in the Congo? Its the same schtick cause its true, its not a cop out you just don't want to face the truth.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,584 ✭✭✭digme


    How did Moboto stay in power so? What companies and countries are making money from illegal mining and extraction? Who has the UN consistently blamed for the biggest problems in the Congo? Its the same schtick cause its true, its not a cop out you just don't want to face the truth.
    Th IMF controls that country along with every other one in Africa bar 1, Eritrea
    The IMF is mostly owned by the usa.




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    There's an interesting article here with some more information on the background...
    An agreement between the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and China in 2008 to swap 10 million tonnes of copper ore for US$9 billion worth of mine and civic infrastructure looked like a genuine win-win.

    But ever since the International Monetary Fund (IMF) demanded renegotiation of the deal in May 2009, China and the DRC have been on a roller-coaster ride of risk. Today, Beijing anxiously eyes a growing list of major dysfunctional problems - and a $100 million adverse judgment in a Hong Kong court - that could derail the "deal of the century".

    ...

    The third was onerous indebtedness, which forced the DRC to concentrate on the IMF's priorities of debt repayment and fiscal and financial reform instead of its own desperate need for social and infrastructure spending.

    The Chinese deal was, in its essence, barter. The state-owned Export-Import Bank of China (China Eximbank) would fund the opening of a copper mine in the DRC's Katanga province for $3 billion and underwrite $6 billion of infrastructure projects, paid in two tranches. The bank would be repaid using profits of Sicomines, a joint venture between the DRC and China that would receive the rights to extract 10 million tonnes of copper and 600,000 tonnes of cobalt reserves from the Katanga mine.

    Undoubtedly, the deal was a potential bonanza for China. In addition, Chinese companies might well have hoped to take advantage of the DRC government by manipulating the contracting process to provide the capacity-challenged and corruption-prone nation with overpriced infrastructure.

    An expert on the DRC's developmental challenges told Asia Times Online he was pessimistic about what might be delivered. "I'm not sure what to expect, beyond a bit of new pavement on some old roads. I 'trust' a corrupt, but efficient government like Angola to squeeze value out of Chinese and Western companies. Not the DRC."

    Nevertheless, for China as well the deal represented a remarkable leap of faith. At the time when the DRC was a financial, political and economic basket case, China agreed to put $6 billion into the country up front in the first four years before the mine - which would enter into production at 2014 at the earliest - had produced a pound of copper.

    To its discredit, the West's response to news of the agreement was anger compounded by fear and jealousy. Kabila conveyed his resentment of this response in an interview with the New York Times: [1]

    No sooner had the agreement been praised in Congo as a desperately needed lifeline than Congo's Western allies started griping that the Chinese got a sweetheart deal and began pressing Mr Kabila to revise the terms.

    "What revolted me was the fact that there was resistance to this agreement and there was no counterproposal," Mr Kabila said.

    The West expressed its displeasure in a concrete way through the most effective avenue available to it - the IMF.

    The IMF dominates the DRC's international economic activity through its administration of a debt workout process for so-called HIPC or "Highly Indebted Poor Countries".

    The HIPC workout has been criticized as a coercive and self-serving exercise designed primarily to protect the interests of Western sovereign creditors who over-lent to developing countries.

    To prevent a wave of national defaults, and avoid the need for creditors to immediately write off foreign debt that impoverished borrowers are unable to service, the IMF interposes itself to set fiscal and structural reform obligations in return for bridge financing and the employment of its good offices to effect eventual cancelation of debts by the Paris Club of the largest Western holders of bad national debt.

    Somewhat absurdly, the DRC, even in the depths of the global recession in 2009, was making more than $170 million in interest payments to stay in the good graces of the IMF.

    This self-sacrifice is necessary so that the IMF will eventually certify to the Paris Club creditors that their $6 billion share of the DRC's $11 billion foreign debt is worthy of being written off. The debt was actually incurred by the kleptocratic predecessor regime of Mobuto Sesi Seko, who fled the country in 1997 when it was still called Zaire; he died the same year.

    It would appear that the IMF relishes the leverage it holds over the DRC by virtue of its control of the country's financial lifeline to the outside world, and resented the idea that the DRC could, through an ore-for-infrastructure swap, pursue its developmental goals in disregard of the priorities of the IMF and its Western backers.
    Maybe not the most unbiased source, but it does look like the IMF, European and American investors are getting together to make the situation a lot worse than it should be. When the humanitarian situation has escalated to the state that it has, or anywhere near it, its time for a major re-evaluation of priorities.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    curlzy wrote: »
    I think blaming the DR Congo for the state they're in is kinda like blaming the victims of the mass rapes.

    Not even remotely..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,584 ✭✭✭digme


    I rest my case.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,708 ✭✭✭curlzy


    digme wrote: »
    whys that?

    Honestly I'd have to write an essay to address all the things that were wrong with your post (IMO), but suffice it to say that I don't think being racist to assylum seekers and foreign nationals is an appropriate response to the issue being discussed.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,584 ✭✭✭digme


    curlzy wrote: »
    Honestly I'd have to write an essay to address all the things that were wrong with your post (IMO), but suffice it to say that I don't think being racist to assylum seekers and foreign nationals is an appropriate response to the issue being discussed.
    You lost the argument already bud, you brought race into it,if that's the best you can do go over to Africa/sh!thole and enjoy yourself on the dole.
    bye bye now.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,708 ✭✭✭curlzy


    prinz wrote: »
    Not even remotely..

    Explain please??? If you disagree a more robust response would be much appreciated. Also if you're going to quote me it's kinda unfair to quote one sentence without the next sentence which qualifies what I meant.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,386 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Sub Saharan Africa is pretty fooked. We can debate the whys all day, but that bit's hardly debatable. Yes of course the west played and still plays a huge part in it, but we need to start calling a spade a spade and face up to the fact that it needs more than charity, ploughing money at the problem and wringing of hands. Other African leaders need to start getting involved. Take Mugabe. Utter scumbag, who with his cronies have turned what was once the breadbasket of Africa into a craphole so bad, there are regular food shortages. Yet his neighbours rarely if ever say or do a damn thing. The Chinese are moving in at the moment across the continent, economic imperialism pretty much. I can't see that going any better for the locals any time soon.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,708 ✭✭✭curlzy


    digme wrote: »
    You lost the argument already bud, you brought race into it,if that's the best you can do go over to Africa/sh!thole and enjoy yourself on the dole.
    bye bye now.

    1. I'm female.
    2. I have an excellent job.
    3. You're original response was that Africa is ****ed and we shouldn't let African's into the country, so it was you who brought race into it.
    4. :p


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,584 ✭✭✭digme


    curlzy wrote: »
    1. I'm female.
    2. I have an excellent job.
    3. You're original response was that Africa is ****ed and we shouldn't let African's into the country, so it was you who brought race into it.
    4. :p
    I don't care what you are.You brought race up like a little girl.
    It's a delinquent backwards country, because the west raped it and continue to do so,those people over there in africa aren't even educated for christ sake.As i said it's a sh!thole.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,708 ✭✭✭curlzy


    digme wrote: »
    I don't care what you are.You brought race up like a little girl.
    It's a delinquent backwards country, because the west raped it and continue to do so,those people over there in africa aren't even educated for christ sake.As i said it's a sh!thole.

    :rolleyes: Does your parents know you're using the internet unsupervised? Tut tut, naughty, naughty!!! You know Santa won't come if you go on like that?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,584 ✭✭✭digme


    curlzy wrote: »
    1. I'm not a guy.
    2. I have an excellent job.
    3. You're original response to this thread was that Africa is a ****hole and we shoudn't let african's into the country, so it was in fact you who brough race into it.
    4. :p
    I don't care what you are.You brought race up like a little girl.
    It's a delinquent backwards country, because the west raped it and continue to do so,those people over there in africa aren't even educated for christ sake.As i said it's a sh!thole.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,584 ✭✭✭digme


    curlzy wrote: »
    :rolleyes: Does your parents know you're using the internet unsupervised? Tut tut, naughty, naughty!!! You know Santa won't come if you go on like that?
    ah now sucking up to me won't get you anywhere ya racist :p
    oh btw miss great job, it's not who you are , it's what you do.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,708 ✭✭✭curlzy


    digme wrote: »
    I don't care what you are.You brought race up like a little girl.
    It's a delinquent backwards country, because the west raped it and continue to do so,those people over there in africa aren't even educated for christ sake.As i said it's a sh!thole.

    Stop repeating yourself. If you've nothing intelligent to add would you not just go play with your transformers or something?


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