Uni degrees should be compulsory for TDs

Fo Real · 14-10-2010 01:09PM #1

Too many of our TDs, especially the rural based ones, come across as ignorant, uneducated buffoons (to put it brashly). Jackie Healy Rae and the infamous PJ Sheehan immediately spring to mind, who both incidentally topped the list for claiming expenses during the Summer. PJ Sheehan doesn't know how to deal with the media and doesn't appear capable of conducting interviews. He recently told a journalist to "cop yourself on" when called up on his shocking expenses claims (over €20,000). On the other hand, I don't understand a word that comes out of Jackie Healy Rae's mouth. And that's not an attack on Kerry people. It's a charming accent but take pride in speaking clearly.

The problem is too many of our TDs are farmers and publicans. I therefore propose that it be made compulsory that all TDs should have obtained a university degree before standing for election. Third level education is free in this country so I don't want to hear arguments that college excludes the poor. It only excludes the stupid.

Personally I'd like to see more TDs with a science or business background enter the Dáil. These are the kinds of people that should be working in our various departments - not farmers.

Permabear · 14-10-2010 01:22PM

This post has been deleted.

oscarBravo · 14-10-2010 01:23PM

Fo Real wrote: »

Third level education is free in this country so I don't want to hear arguments that college excludes the poor. It only excludes the stupid.

For various reasons I didn't go to college in the late 1980s when I finished school. I was one of the lucky few who got a job, and worked my way up a career path that culminated in a senior management position with international responsibility and a salary approaching six figures in today's terms. Since then I've been self-employed and now run a successful business.

But you think I'm unqualified to be a TD?

Elevator · 14-10-2010 01:24PM

I couldn't agree more op

will never happen though

Nodin · 14-10-2010 01:27PM

Fo Real wrote: »

Too many of our TDs,(.....)- not farmers.

Snobbery against the rural community, combined with the fallacy that the achievement of a degree in a certain area gives one competence in all others.......

Fo Real · 14-10-2010 01:31PM

oscarBravo wrote: »

For various reasons I didn't go to college in the late 1980s when I finished school. I was one of the lucky few who got a job, and worked my way up a career path that culminated in a senior management position with international responsibility and a salary approaching six figures in today's terms. Since then I've been self-employed and now run a successful business.

But you think I'm unqualified to be a TD?

If a candidate has proved themselves to be adequately trained in a specific area, they then could be considered to be put up as an election candidate. Bill Cullen never went to college, but has proven himself to be a successful businessman. He could therefore be eligible to run for election and perhaps to be chosen as Minister for Trade and Employment .

College degrees are simply a quick way of seperating the gombeens from those who can be beneficial to the country as a whole.

oscarBravo · 14-10-2010 01:32PM

Fo Real wrote: »

If a candidate has proved themselves to be adequately trained in a specific area, they then could be considered ...

By whom?

BaZmO* · 14-10-2010 01:37PM

Fo Real wrote: »

Third level education is free in this country so I don't want to hear arguments that college excludes the poor. It only excludes the stupid.

I've met plenty of stupid people in college. I've also met plenty of booksmart people that would certainly know their Cos from their Tan but wouldn't know their árse from the elbow when it came to business.

McDougal · 14-10-2010 01:39PM

What a snobby thread. The problem with our TDs isn't that they are thick or uneducated, it is that they are too greedy and crooked. University education wouldn't change that. Look at the kids in university these days? Greedy self-serving snobs who don't give a toss about anything except getting ahead in the world.

Remember this financial crisis was caused by bankers with degrees coming out their holes.

pawrick · 14-10-2010 01:40PM

A qualification/relevant experience should be considered a priority to be appointed to a position on one of the committees (PAC etc.) or as a cabinet member, other then that I can't see why a TD should have a degree.
There are far more ways the system can be improved and will have a greater impact such as in my opinion lowering the number of TD's and giving more power to councils so they are not caught up so much in the local issues as opposed to national issues. The whole system needs to be tweaked in reality.

Fo Real · 14-10-2010 01:41PM

oscarBravo wrote: »

By whom?

By universities. Honorary degrees can be conferred on successful figures in the business world and other relevant sections of society. A certain standard of education must be upheld in the Dáil. Otherwise the village idiot could be elected because he promises his neighbours pub licenses or that rural pub goers are exempt from the drink driving law. This sort of gombeenism actually occurs, as we all know.

McDougal · 14-10-2010 01:41PM

oscarBravo wrote: »

For various reasons I didn't go to college in the late 1980s when I finished school. I was one of the lucky few who got a job, and worked my way up a career path that culminated in a senior management position with international responsibility and a salary approaching six figures in today's terms. Since then I've been self-employed and now run a successful business.

But you think I'm unqualified to be a TD?

Yes

Nodin · 14-10-2010 01:44PM

Fo Real wrote: »

.......

College degrees are simply a quick way of seperating the gombeens from those who can be beneficial to the country as a whole.

Fascinating. Therefore somebody who had a third level degree in Economics and qualifed as an accountant - like say Charles Haughey - would be truly the gift of a beneficent God.....

Nodin · 14-10-2010 01:46PM

Fo Real wrote: »

By universities. Honorary degrees can be conferred on successful figures in the business world and other relevant sections of society. A certain standard of education must be upheld in the Dáil. Otherwise the village idiot could be elected because he promises his neighbours pub licenses or that rural pub goers are exempt from the drink driving law. This sort of gombeenism actually occurs, as we all know.

Please explain why a third level education would preclude resorting to such methods to get elected......

Permabear · 14-10-2010 01:50PM

This post has been deleted.

oscarBravo · 14-10-2010 01:52PM

McDougal wrote: »

Yes

Well, you've already expressed disdain for University graduates in this very thread, so clearly that's not the reason why you would consider me unqualified. Would you care to explain why?

mikemac · 14-10-2010 01:54PM

Nodin wrote: »

Fascinating. Therefore somebody who had a third level degree in Economics and qualifed as an accountant - like say Charles Haughey - would be truly the gift of a beneficent God.....

Yep, qualified accountant and trained as a barrister too.
One of the most academically qualified TDs we ever had

So how did that work out OP?

McDougal · 14-10-2010 02:00PM

oscarBravo wrote: »

Well, you've already expressed disdain for University graduates in this very thread, so clearly that's not the reason why you would consider me unqualified. Would you care to explain why?

I dunno, I don't really like these self-employed entrepreneur business types

Nodin · 14-10-2010 02:02PM

McDougal wrote: »

I dunno, I don't really like these self-employed entrepreneur business types

On what basis, might I ask?

oscarBravo · 14-10-2010 02:03PM

Nodin wrote: »

On what basis, might I ask?

We create jobs. Evil fascists, the lot of us.

Rabble Rabble · 14-10-2010 02:04PM

I dont agree with the poster ( there is an obvious anti-rural bias, too, in fact more people go to university from the sticks than in Dublin). Also he is not really aware of what representative democracy should entail.

BUT...

If we are to have this rule, lets have Real Degrees. Science and Engineering. Like China's ruling class.

Anyome who has anything to do with Marxism. Not a hope. If you think the labour theory of value is true. Out out out.

Nodin · 14-10-2010 02:06PM

Rabble Rabble wrote: »

I dont agree with the poster ( there is an obvious anti-rural bias, too, in fact more people go to university from the sticks than in Dublin). Also he is not really aware of what representative democracy should entail.

BUT...

If we are to have this rule, lets have Real Degrees. Science and Engineering. Like China's ruling class.

I lack the confidence to go back at this stage....Therefore I will join our soon to be rapidly expanding Secret Police Force......

Lenny Lovett · 14-10-2010 02:07PM

Fo Real wrote: »

Too many of our TDs, especially the rural based ones, come across as ignorant, uneducated buffoons (to put it brashly). Jackie Healy Rae and the infamous PJ Sheehan immediately spring to mind, who both incidentally topped the list for claiming expenses during the Summer. PJ Sheehan doesn't know how to deal with the media and doesn't appear capable of conducting interviews. He recently told a journalist to "cop yourself on" when called up on his shocking expenses claims (over €20,000). On the other hand, I don't understand a word that comes out of Jackie Healy Rae's mouth. And that's not an attack on Kerry people. It's a charming accent but take pride in speaking clearly.

The problem is too many of our TDs are farmers and publicans. I therefore propose that it be made compulsory that all TDs should have obtained a university degree before standing for election. Third level education is free in this country so I don't want to hear arguments that college excludes the poor. It only excludes the stupid.

Personally I'd like to see more TDs with a science or business background enter the Dáil. These are the kinds of people that should be working in our various departments - not farmers.

What a load of utter tosh! They're giving out degrees to every Tom Dick and Harry these days. Go into any University Bar and you'll see a bunch of morons who haven't a clue about life. They have all the theory maybe (and that's even questionable) but little or no cop on. As to your assertion about Publicans and Farmers, you need to be fairly switched on to be either of them.

McDougal wrote: »

I dunno, I don't really like these self-employed entrepreneur business types

The country would be in an even worse state without us. We're the only ones generating revenue and propping up the Public Services.

McDougal · 14-10-2010 02:10PM

Nodin wrote: »

On what basis, might I ask?

They're always moaning about the minimum wage being too high and giving out out workers rights. Then they always give it the "I create jobs" sh1te and think it means they are a hero. Just because someone opens up another bloody coffee shop doesn't mean they are some national icon.

onlyrocknroll · 14-10-2010 02:24PM

Elevator wrote: »

I couldn't agree more op(

I couldn't agree less.

It's profoundly undemocratic. It's almost like a modern version of the philosopher kings in Plato's Republic.
It would preclude the majority of the population from government, denying many Irish people any form of representation.
I know many successful people who do not have third level education.
I know more academically successful people who can't manage their own lives never mind a country.

p.s. OP, rural people today are more likely to have a third level degree than urban people. It would be the urban working class that would be most harmed by this.

Nodin · 14-10-2010 02:29PM

McDougal wrote: »

They're always moaning about the minimum wage being too high and giving out out workers rights. Then they always give it the "I create jobs" sh1te and think it means they are a hero. Just because someone opens up another bloody coffee shop doesn't mean they are some national icon.

You don't know all of them, however. I'd suggest you're generalising on the basis of the 'Michael o'leary' type of ass.

ILA · 14-10-2010 02:34PM

I immensely dislike both sides of this arguement, it seems people either want business leaders in government or they want highly educated politicians with degrees in actuarial science or information technology.

That's no what democracy is about. If we want the system to work, we have to remove the incentives for crooks to enter politics. So TDs should only receive the average industrial wage, have vouched expenses, and only perform their primary role of creating and reviewing legislation.

No more 90k a year plus expenses, no more clientelism and parish pump operations on local government issues, no more corporate funding for parties. Remove the benefits which attract corrupt gombeens who want a cushy lfiestyle and only have to compete in a popularity contest every five years.

Byron85 · 14-10-2010 02:35PM

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Harvard not good enough?

:D

With regard to people in rural areas, there is still a stigma in attached to further education in certain areas. Where i'm from in Co. Carlow is a testament to that. I'm from a small rural village of less than 1000 people, which was even smaller when I was growing up in the mid-nineties, and for some reason that isn't beyond me, a lot of people cannot comprehend further education. If they do comprehend it, somehow, then you are questioned along the lines of "what can you do with that" or "will you earn a lot of money". My sister was asked why did she "bother moving to Galway to study for a degree when you could stay at home, do a PLC course and then draw the dole".

While only being anecdotal, I find it somewhat interesting even if it is a little off topic.

djpbarry · 14-10-2010 02:36PM

Fo Real wrote: »

Third level education is free in this country so I don't want to hear arguments that college excludes the poor. It only excludes the stupid.

Academic achievement ≠ Intelligence

Fo Real wrote: »

Personally I'd like to see more TDs with a science or business background enter the Dáil. These are the kinds of people that should be working in our various departments - not farmers.

Farming isn’t a business?

djpbarry · 14-10-2010 02:37PM

McDougal wrote: »

Just because someone opens up another bloody coffee shop doesn't mean they are some national icon.

Perhaps not. But it certainly places them above the begrudging guy complaining about them on an anonymous internet forum. In my eyes at least.

Zambia · 14-10-2010 02:46PM

Maybe prior to being a candidate a test could be taken and the results made public?

Uni degrees should be compulsory for TDs

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