'1916 Rising' or '1916 Terrorist Attack' - Poll

GizAGoOfYerGee · 14-10-2010 02:20AM #1

If you were living in 1916 Ireland, would you have supported the terrorists/freedom fighters and their proclamation of an Irish Republic? Or would you have thrown cabbages at them, as the majority of Dubliners did at the time?

The Irish Times reported the "sickening", "dreadful" and "awful" attack on the British Administration in Ireland. As did the majority of papers around the island.

By all accounts, the vast majority of Irish people wanted to be under British rule and were sickened by the 1916 attack on Dublin.

It was only until the Irish terrorists/freedom fighters executed Irish people that colluded with the British, and of course, the atrocities by the ex-convict Black and Tans, when Irish people changed their minds and sided with the Irish terrorists/freedom fighters.

There is a huge anti-Irish sentiment here on AH and I would love to see the outcome of this poll.

Biggins · 14-10-2010 02:22AM

GizAGoOfYerGee wrote: »

...There is a huge anti-Irish sentiment here on AH...

Say what!

GizAGoOfYerGee · 14-10-2010 02:27AM

Biggins wrote: »

Say what!

People in AH are continuously hating on all things Irish.

Just wait for the AH responses below.

Biggins · 14-10-2010 02:29AM

GizAGoOfYerGee wrote: »

People in AH are continuously hating on all things Irish.

Just wait for the AH responses below.

No, I disagree.
Some just dislike some areas of Irish society and goings-on.
We should be more clear about that.

There isn't a huge wide carte-blanch anti-Irish sentiment here in AH I would have to say.

Sharkey 10 · 14-10-2010 02:32AM

GizAGoOfYerGee wrote: »

People in AH are continuously hating on all things Irish.

Just wait for the AH responses below.

No i would disagree , a lot of people here disagree with a lot of the bad things in Irish society and I think the boys in the gpo would have been equally opposed to a lot of stuff that goes on in this country.
By todays the rising would be classed as a act of terror . It was defiantly not a populist act.

hotmail.com · 14-10-2010 02:33AM

GizAGoOfYerGee wrote: »

If you were living in 1916 Ireland, would you have supported the terrorists/freedom fighters and their proclamation of an Irish Republic? Or would you have thrown cabbages at them, as the majority of Dubliners did at the time?

The Irish Times reported the "sickening", "dreadful" and "awful" attack on the British Administration in Ireland. As did the majority of papers around the island.

By all accounts, the vast majority of Irish people wanted to be under British rule and were sickened by the 1916 attack on Dublin.

It was only until the Irish terrorists/freedom fighters executed Irish people that colluded with the British, and of course, the atrocities by the ex-convict Black and Tans, when Irish people changed their minds and sided with the Irish terrorists/freedom fighters.

There is a huge anti-Irish sentiment here on AH and I would love to see the outcome of this poll.

What evidence have you got for this?

You're equating being anti-Irish with being against terrorism. Silly.

Einhard · 14-10-2010 02:34AM

I'm far from nationalist, and I don't give a flying feck if there's ever a United Ireland, but I don't think it's unreasonable to resort to violent methods when the right of self-determination is denied to a people, and the democratic process neutered. The America revolutionaries, the Maquis in WW II, and Neslon Mandela all resorted to such means, and yet I have never heard eny of them denounced with the vitriol that some revisionists reserve for the participants in the Rising.

brianthebard · 14-10-2010 02:34AM

GizAGoOfYerGee wrote: »

By all accounts, the vast majority of Irish people wanted to be under British rule and were sickened by the 1916 attack on Dublin.

Historiographical fail - the worst kind of fail!!!!

rockmongrel · 14-10-2010 02:39AM

Well the definition of a terror attack would be to invoke terror in the populace, and that clearly wasn't the aim of the rising. So definitely 1916 Rising.

14-10-2010 02:42AM

GizAGoOfYerGee wrote: »

There is a huge anti-Irish sentiment here on AH

After whose Hours?

Doneg Al · 14-10-2010 02:45AM

GizAGoOfYerGee wrote: »

If you were living in 1916 Ireland, would you have supported the terrorists/freedom fighters and their proclamation of an Irish Republic? Or would you have thrown cabbages at them, as the majority of Dubliners did at the time?

The Irish Times reported the "sickening", "dreadful" and "awful" attack on the British Administration in Ireland. As did the majority of papers around the island.

By all accounts, the vast majority of Irish people wanted to be under British rule and were sickened by the 1916 attack on Dublin.

It was only until the Irish terrorists/freedom fighters executed Irish people that colluded with the British, and of course, the atrocities by the ex-convict Black and Tans, when Irish people changed their minds and sided with the Irish terrorists/freedom fighters.

There is a huge anti-Irish sentiment here on AH and I would love to see the outcome of this poll.

Man you need to read a book. Lots and lots of books.

Einhard · 14-10-2010 02:45AM

GizAGoOfYerGee wrote: »

By all accounts, the vast majority of Irish people wanted to be under British rule and were sickened by the 1916 attack on Dublin.

I don't know how you possibly stand by the former statement. The Home Rule Party (IPP) was consistently the largest party on the island of Ireland, and its support clearly showed that Irish people wanted a break from the Union at the very least. That Sinn Fein, which advocated complete seperation through the establishment of a Republic won 46% of the vote in 1918, shows that the electorate were favourably disposed to independence.

hotmail.com · 14-10-2010 02:54AM

Einhard wrote: »

I don't know how you possibly stand by the former statement. The Home Rule Party (IPP) was consistently the largest party on the island of Ireland, and its support clearly showed that Irish people wanted a break from the Union at the very least. That Sinn Fein, which advocated complete seperation through the establishment of a Republic won 46% of the vote in 1918, shows that the electorate were favourably disposed to independence.

Just to qualify that 46.9% - If you remove the unionist vote, 68% of nationalists voted for Dev's SF.

The_Kew_Tour · 14-10-2010 02:54AM

GizAGoOfYerGee wrote: »

By all accounts, the vast majority of Irish people wanted to be under British rule and were sickened by the 1916 attack on Dublin.

^^^
When end year poll comes along and votes asked for stupid comments then this will get my vote.

minidazzler · 14-10-2010 03:03AM

I wouldn't consider it a terrorist attack given it wasn't done in a way that involved the harm of non-combatants.

It was an insurgency more than anything.

Insurgency does not equal terrorism.

That said, the cnuts who went on bombing campaigns in later years were nothing short of terrorists and I hope they burn in jet fuel fires if their is a hell.

OutlawPete · 14-10-2010 03:06AM

Strange Poll, not sure what to make of the thread.

Anyway, of the thousands that took part in The Rising, I am proud of every single one of them.

As far as the people that gave the Rebels a hard time, most of those were getting money from the British state because they had family members that fought for the British Army in World War I.

Obviously there was the executions in Kilmainham and further executions elsewhere in Dublin (not to mention those that were interened, over a thousand) but it was still the principal act that led to the Anglo Irish Treaty.

Irish citizens, that think that the Old IRA were 'terrorists', should take the boat as far as I'm concerned.

Napper Hawkins · 14-10-2010 03:49AM

Didn't think anyone would be stupid enough to consider the old IRA terrorists.

I reckon they'd be fairly disgusted with how we've managed to **** up everything they fought and died for though.

Could you imagine what Michael Collins and his crew would make of the scum running todays show? Imagine him meeting the likes of Bertie or Cowen...

StupidLikeAFox · 14-10-2010 03:53AM

GizAGoOfYerGee wrote: »

People in AH are continuously hating on all things Irish.

Just wait for the AH responses below.

Since when did Irish people use the phrase "hating on"?

"Yo, Collins, Pearse, these brits be hatin on all your asses, they been all up in our faces for 800 years y'all, lets get our rising on"

digme · 14-10-2010 04:16AM

GizAGoOfYerGee wrote: »

If you were living in 1916 Ireland, would you have supported the terrorists/freedom fighters and their proclamation of an Irish Republic? Or would you have thrown cabbages at them, as the majority of Dubliners did at the time?

The Irish Times reported the "sickening", "dreadful" and "awful" attack on the British Administration in Ireland. As did the majority of papers around the island.

By all accounts, the vast majority of Irish people wanted to be under British rule and were sickened by the 1916 attack on Dublin.

It was only until the Irish terrorists/freedom fighters executed Irish people that colluded with the British, and of course, the atrocities by the ex-convict Black and Tans, when Irish people changed their minds and sided with the Irish terrorists/freedom fighters.

There is a huge anti-Irish sentiment here on AH and I would love to see the outcome of this poll.

stocklholm sydrome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Athlone_Bhoy · 14-10-2010 04:35AM

adrian280582 wrote: »

^^^
When end year poll comes along and votes asked for stupid comments then this will get my vote.

Don't know about majority but they were indeed spat at by certain locals.

Irish citizens, that think that the Old IRA were 'terrorists', should take the boat as far as I'm concerned.

Old IRA? Whats the difference between the Old IRA and the likes of the PIRA? Oh don't bother anwering I know the answer.

Jamiekelly · 14-10-2010 04:45AM

Athlone_Bhoy wrote: »

Don't know about majority but they were indeed spat at by certain locals.

Old IRA? Whats the difference between the Old IRA and the likes of the PIRA? Oh don't bother anwering I know the answer.

2 minutes ago the poll showed 0 votes for "1916 A terrorist attack" and coincidently after your comment was posted some fool gave it a vote. You're a SPY!!!1

OutlawPete · 14-10-2010 05:03AM

Athlone_Bhoy wrote: »

Oh don't bother anwering I know the answer.

Don't bother asking the question then.

K-9 · 14-10-2010 05:45AM

Einhard wrote: »

I don't know how you possibly stand by the former statement. The Home Rule Party (IPP) was consistently the largest party on the island of Ireland, and its support clearly showed that Irish people wanted a break from the Union at the very least. That Sinn Fein, which advocated complete seperation through the establishment of a Republic won 46% of the vote in 1918, shows that the electorate were favourably disposed to independence.

This to me sums it up.

Home Rule was by far the biggest party pre 1916 among men who could vote, about 30% of the population (as women didn't have the vote and there were age restrictions on males).

Three things changed that for me. 1916 obviously, as shown by SF bye elections wins between 1916 and the General Election of 1918, the Home Rule Bill not being passed in 1916 (why did the soldiers go to WW1), due to partition becoming a major issue and the threat of conscription that was later suggested as an enticement to get HR.

So, in 1916 SF wasn't that particularly popular but something happened to change that in 2 short years. Home Rule died away (First past the post system wiped it out), resistance from Unionists even to HR and SF's time had come, helped by 1916.

Where they terrorists? By todays description, maybe. But, within 2 years they had a massive democratic mandate.

jethro081 · 14-10-2010 07:07AM

The 1916 risin was not terrorism. The idea of a democratic mandate or even a popular mandate is not relevant to the issue of whether or not it was in fact terrorism.

The simple facts are that the Volunteers of 1916 seized what they estimated to be the most valuable strategic centres they could within Dublin. Their aim was not to strike terror into anyone, they genuinely believed (for the most part, and however naievely) that they had a chance to succeed.

It can be described as a militant extremist coup, it can be described as unwanted or unwarranted depending on your political opinions and affiliations.

it can not however be described as terrorism.

THe war of independance however is a different matter....

dvpower · 14-10-2010 07:46AM

There's a big difference between supporting Home Rule and supporting the rising. it's clear that there was a widespread support for Home Rule in 1916 but a much lower support for any armed rising (especially one that was bound to fail).

Still, I don't think it can be categorised as a terrorist attack. They faced the fight straight on, even in the knowledge that they were doomed from the outset; more than can be said for some of Collins' later actions.

TerryTibbs! · 14-10-2010 07:58AM

The terrorist act was the Brits showing up here in the first place.

RMD · 14-10-2010 08:00AM

GizAGoOfYerGee wrote: »

The Irish Times reported the "sickening", "dreadful" and "awful" attack on the British Administration in Ireland. As did the majority of papers around the island.

The Irish Times was a unionist paper at the time so it's not a fair judgement, but yes the rising was disliked by the majority of the population at the time. Once they realised they were being executed without trial, then they started to receive support.

10green bottles · 14-10-2010 08:11AM

RMD wrote: »

, but yes the rising was disliked by the majority of the population at the time. Once they realised they were being executed without trial, then they started to receive support.

No ****!!!

lugha · 14-10-2010 08:35AM

jethro081 wrote: »

The 1916 risin was not terrorism. The idea of a democratic mandate or even a popular mandate is not relevant to the issue of whether or not it was in fact terrorism.

Got it in one. Mode of engagement and mandate are two different things. It is amazing how many people don't get this, and it is not unique to Irish affairs.

Personally I blame George W. Bush and Jack Bauer for all the tendency to decry "terrorist" when "unjustified" is what is intended. :pac: And this of course invites the daft logical arguments: Mandela was a terrorist, Mandela's actions can be justified, therefore my favourite terrorists can be justified

Truth is that even modern physical force republicans (unlike the loyalists) did not / do not seek to instil terror in the wider population. They by and large, targeted "crown forces" so terrorism isn't really an apt description of them. But are their actions justified? No, because like the 1916 crew they do not have a mandate from those they claim to represent.

Predator_ · 14-10-2010 08:39AM

Depends on what side of the fence you are. If your Gaelic Irish then they were/are freedom fighters. If your foreign/west-brit/brainwashed-traitor then they usually were/are terrorists.

R P McMurphy · 14-10-2010 08:44AM

dvpower wrote: »

There's a big difference between supporting Home Rule and supporting the rising. it's clear that there was a widespread support for Home Rule in 1916 but a much lower support for any armed rising (especially one that was bound to fail).

Still, I don't think it can be categorised as a terrorist attack. They faced the fight straight on, even in the knowledge that they were doomed from the outset; more than can be said for some of Collins' later actions.

Fought head on but always doomed to failure doing so against a much bigger military infrastructure. Collins was a realist and certainly a revolutionary strategist. If you consider the insurgents in Iraq, if they came out and fought the coalition forces head on they would be bombed from the face of the map. Their position necessitates the adoption of urban guerrilla techniques in order to survive. The fact that they are still there ten years later in the face of vastly superior military might would indicate the validity of their approach. Not their aims I might add but the tactics they have adopted

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