The "United Ireland" brigade and the economic crisis

Permabear · 13-10-2010 03:24PM #1

This post has been deleted.

Iwasfrozen · 13-10-2010 03:32PM

They know there's a recession. They just don't care...

jackbenimble · 13-10-2010 03:35PM

It's a pseudo-religion. Do people stop believing in God, just because inflation creeps up?

OhNoYouDidn't · 13-10-2010 03:37PM

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Because for some people principles are more important than money...

Of course economics matter, but to nationalists the costs of reunification if and when they arise will be both worth it and dealt with at the time. Economics simply won't be the over-riding or deciding factor in this issue.

KeithAFC · 13-10-2010 03:41PM

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Because for some people principles are more important than money...

Of course economics matter, but to nationalists the costs of reunification if and when they arise will be both worth it and dealt with at the time. Economics simply won't be the over-riding or deciding factor in this issue.

Not when it comes to living every day. Food on the table etc etc.

OhNoYouDidn't · 13-10-2010 03:44PM

KeithAFC wrote: »

Not when it comes to living every day. Food on the table etc etc.

I'm not disputing that, but the idea that nationaists will cease to want unification in bad times is as laughable as the idea that you would want to have ended the union when the Celtic Tiger was roaring for a few more quid at the end of the month.

Recessions come and go. Core political beliefs remain.

Sisko · 13-10-2010 03:45PM

When your country is split in two by a foreign power you want to see it put back together no matter what the cost I would imagine.

Economically speaking its never been a good idea , but did that stop Germany?

Personally while I would love to see it in my lifetime , I'm aware how romantic the idea is and how unlikely it is to happen any time soon. So I don't think you have to worry about it happening during this economic crisis that's for sure.

I'm just offering what I would imagine the 'dreaded united ireland brigade's' feelings on the subject would be.

deise go deo · 13-10-2010 04:29PM

Many Nationalist beleive that the Border dosent make economic sence, Having two public services, two police forces etc with all its unnessary waste on an Island this size just dosent make sence,
The UK cannot keep paying for NI as it has till now, So staying in the UK is not the answer to NI's economic woes.
I beleive a UI is the only long term economic solution for the economic basket case that is NI.
Cross Border co-operation is already recognised by most as the most efficient way to do things in several areas, I just want that to be roled out to everything else.

Wolfe Tone · 13-10-2010 05:43PM

Thing were not exactly super in the 70s and 80s were they?

Lots of these type of threads on the go now.

southsiderosie · 13-10-2010 05:53PM

From an economic perspective, if NI could get it together, they might actually be better off becoming independent. One of the main complaints about German reunification was that there was basically nothing for cities in East Germany to 'do': Berlin became the capital, but banking and industrial centers were already well developed in the West. Belfast and Derry struggle as it is; within a united Ireland, what role would these cities play? Dublin is the center of government and services, and Galway is the "cute Western university town". And heavy industry is gone and it ain't coming back.

Granted this is all theoretical, but it's something to think about. Political principles are well and good, but let's not pretend that economic imperatives play (and played) a huge role here.

karma_ · 13-10-2010 06:01PM

These threads pop up because this is a political forum, and the NI issue has been at the political forefront for a good 90 years now. I'm actually wondering why you find this surprising?

Terrontress · 13-10-2010 06:28PM

What I have observed in Northern Ireland on both Republican and Loyalist sides is that it is in the most disadvantaged areas where people are most passionate about the national question.

Take a group of people from Ballymurphy or the Lower Newtownards Road and they are going to be poor under either system so I'd imagine the current Irish economic crisis would worry them too much.

Once you move up into middle earners, they are too busy at present trying to make money to worry about the national question. I think that, in the event of a referendum, this silent group would grow more vocal and support the maintaining of the status quo.

Even when the Celtic Tiger was in full swing, middle earning people in NI did not think they would be better off living under Dublin rule given the higher cost of living and poorer public services.

Bottle_of_Smoke · 13-10-2010 06:35PM

Starting to think I should change my new forum suggestion to a request for a Republic of Ireland Politics subforum.

On topic it is true the population of the island cannot afford to reunify right now.

This is however largely irrelevant to discussing the prospect. Everyone who aspires to a united Ireland is well aware it is not going to happen right now.

People who want to achieve it through peaceful means know it is going to take many years before a border poll even takes place. If successful it would take many more years to negotiate a constitution and national flags/symbols/anthems etc, as well as putting structures in place to make the transition.

Even militant republicans know that if their deluded fantasy of ''bombing the British out of Ireland'' was successful it would be many years before reunification took place

Cú Giobach · 13-10-2010 07:53PM

Though it is hard for some people to believe, there are people around who consider some things more important than money.
Some people don't judge their quality of life by how much money they have.

Personally I would accept a drop in my standard of living for a UI, and I would accept that a lot easier than having it drop because some rich banker bast*rds made a few bad decisions trying to make themselves richer.

Bottle_of_Smoke · 13-10-2010 08:05PM

Personally I would accept a drop in my standard of living for a UI, and I would accept that a lot easier than having it drop because some rich banker bast*rds made a few bad decisions trying to make themselves richer.

I think Britain pays 10billion to the north and takes in 5billion in taxation

..... So nama could fund the north for 10 years...:eek:

jackbenimble · 13-10-2010 08:06PM

deise go deo wrote: »

Many Nationalist beleive that the Border dosent make economic sence, Having two public services, two police forces etc with all its unnessary waste on an Island this size just dosent make sence,
The UK cannot keep paying for NI as it has till now, So staying in the UK is not the answer to NI's economic woes.
I beleive a UI is the only long term economic solution for the economic basket case that is NI.
Cross Border co-operation is already recognised by most as the most efficient way to do things in several areas, I just want that to be roled out to everything else.

Yes it can.

Cú Giobach · 13-10-2010 08:08PM

jackbenimble wrote: »

Yes it can.

But will it want to.

Terrontress · 13-10-2010 08:08PM

Cú Giobach wrote: »

Though it is hard for some people to believe, there are people around who consider some things more important than money.
Some people don't judge their quality of life by how much money they have.

Personally I would accept a drop in my standard of living for a UI, and I would accept that a lot easier than having it drop because some rich banker bast*rds made a few bad decisions trying to make themselves richer.

There are people who are on the cusp of financial difficulties and imposing a further tax on them could tip them over the edge. While you may be able to take a financial hit, there are those who could not.

You only have to look at the areas where SF get their mandate in NI, some of the poorest areas in the UK. People who have little income to tax but, as we all know, use their vote to maximum effect. Try to increase tax for a united Ireland and voter apathy amongst the middle classes will reduce.

amacachi · 13-10-2010 08:10PM

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Because for some people principles are more important than money...

Of course economics matter, but to nationalists the costs of reunification if and when they arise will be both worth it and dealt with at the time. Economics simply won't be the over-riding or deciding factor in this issue.

People aren't stupid though. When my family over the border hear about the kinds of things we pay for and the amount we pay for necessities they're incredulous. They're not stupid enough to vote to lose their NHS, their low prices and the constant flow of money from London.

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Thing were not exactly super in the 70s and 80s were they?

Lots of these type of threads on the go now.

Bit of a difference between now and then, as well you know.

jackbenimble · 13-10-2010 08:14PM

Cú Giobach wrote: »

But will it want to.

I'm afraid so old boy. Bad luck on The Oirish.

tim_holsters · 13-10-2010 08:15PM

The idea of a united Ireland is pure fantasy at the minute.

Do southern nationalists imagine that all catholics from the north want a united Ireland?

If so they are mistaken.

southsiderosie · 13-10-2010 08:22PM

jackbenimble wrote: »

Yes it can.

If the six countries floated away tomorrow, I honestly do not think that London would give a ****, and many people in the UK would breathe a sigh of relief.

Cú Giobach · 13-10-2010 08:35PM

jackbenimble wrote: »

I'm afraid so old boy. Bad luck on The Oirish.

So you say.

Cú Giobach · 13-10-2010 08:46PM

Terrontress wrote: »

There are people who are on the cusp of financial difficulties and imposing a further tax on them could tip them over the edge. While you may be able to take a financial hit, there are those who could not.

You only have to look at the areas where SF get their mandate in NI, some of the poorest areas in the UK. People who have little income to tax but, as we all know, use their vote to maximum effect. Try to increase tax for a united Ireland and voter apathy amongst the middle classes will reduce.

There are many examples of people who take a serious drop in their living standards for things like independence. I know politicians usually "dress up" the prospect of this "freedom" with the promise of great riches once the yoke is thrown off, and the reality is often very different and it can take many years for people to obtain a standard they had before changes were made. But people will often put up with a heck of a lot for such things (including dying for it).

jackbenimble · 13-10-2010 08:48PM

southsiderosie wrote: »

If the six countries floated away tomorrow, I honestly do not think that London would give a ****, and many people in the UK would breathe a sigh of relief.

If Liverpool floated away tomorrow 'I honestly do not think that London would give a ****, and many people in the UK would breathe a sigh of relief'...

Oh, and you can replace the word 'Liverpool' with anywhere else in The UK.

Zambia · 13-10-2010 08:50PM

I dont believe it could pay for itself.

Imagine if scotland breaks from the Union

Wales follows suit a few years later.

The people of England realise they are supporting the ass end of the union from there own Taxes and demand that as the union pretty much has collapsed NI should be released as well.

It could happen and if so I reckon the south would be seen in a whole new light resembling a economic Halo. You cant be a unionist if there is no union.

jackbenimble · 13-10-2010 08:51PM

Cú Giobach wrote: »

So you say.

Indeed I do. And unlike those who live in Oirland and spend their time obsessing over a pseudo-religion I actually know what I'm talking about.

Zambia · 13-10-2010 08:52PM

jackbenimble wrote: »

If Liverpool floated away tomorrow 'I honestly do not think that London would give a ****, and many people in the UK would breathe a sigh of relief'...

Oh, and you can replace the word 'Liverpool' with anywhere else in The UK.

If London floated away tomorrow 'I honestly do not think that London would give a ****, and many people in the UK would breathe a sigh of relief'...

jackbenimble · 13-10-2010 08:53PM

Zambia232 wrote: »

I dont believe it could pay for itself.

Imagine if scotland breaks from the Union

Wales follows suit a few years later.

The people of England realise they are supporting the ass end of the union from there own Taxes and demand that as the union pretty much has collapsed NI should be released as well.

It could happen and if so I reckon the south would be seen in a whole new light resembling a economic Halo. You cant be a unionist if there is no union.

And then the leprechauns dance the night away with the banshees and saint Patrick falls over drunk...

Zambia · 13-10-2010 08:55PM

jackbenimble wrote: »

And then the leprechauns dance the night away with the banshees and saint Patrick falls over drunk...

What is rule 1 of boards?

Cú Giobach · 13-10-2010 08:58PM

jackbenimble wrote: »

Indeed I do. And unlike those who live in Oirland and spend their time obsessing over a pseudo-religion I actually know what I'm talking about.

A staunch NI Unionist decrying a pseudo-religion, oh the irony.

The "United Ireland" brigade and the economic crisis

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