Scumbag sues Garda

senordingdong · 13-10-2010 11:28AM

Never seen or heard of an innocent person getting a hiding myself.

thebullkf · 13-10-2010 11:31AM

senordingdong wrote: »

Never seen or heard of an innocent person getting a hiding myself.

i have, more than once.;)

senordingdong · 13-10-2010 11:36AM

thebullkf wrote: »

i have, more than once.;)

Are you sure they were innocent?

_feedback_ · 13-10-2010 11:40AM

senordingdong wrote: »

Are you sure they were innocent?

It doesn't matter if they're innocent or not! Gardaí shouldn't be dishing out beatings!

EDIT: could a mod edit Harrys post? Genuinely too hard to read!

HarryPotter41 · 13-10-2010 11:45AM

senordingdong wrote: »

Glad we have the info now, even though it was a chore to read.

Also glad with the outcome of the case, despite my belief that it should not have come this far already.

My apologies, will tidy that up when I get home, IE6 on a tightly limited work OS.
EDIT : Managed to tidy it up on my phone elvis</p>

ria5000 · 13-10-2010 12:12PM

Verdict of not guilty.well done gerry

senordingdong · 13-10-2010 01:54PM

elviscostello wrote: »

It doesn't matter if they're innocent or not! Gardaí shouldn't be dishing out beatings!

EDIT: could a mod edit Harrys post? Genuinely too hard to read!

Ok ok ok ok...lets not get dragged into this again.

Are we all happy with the result?

dvpower · 13-10-2010 02:32PM

From the Irish Times

A judge has ordered that a garda be found not guilty of assaulting a man following a high-speed car chase in Dublin city.
Gda Gerard Curtis (23) of Ardee, Co Louth, had pleaded not guilty at Dublin Circuit Criminal Court to assault and assault causing harm of John Paul Maughan (19) on Alexandria Road in the Dublin Docks on July 11th, 2009.
During the five-day trial, the jury heard from several Garda witnesses that Gda Curtis had used justified force.
Gda Curtis was found not guilty by direction of Judge Donagh McDonagh after he ruled that the prosecution failed to disprove the accused was acting in self-defence when he hit the suspect with his baton.
However, the judge said a CCTV recording of the incident reminded him “of the Rodney King beating”.
“Self control was sadly lacking,” he told the court in the absence of the jury. “This to me is a case of a single garda overreacting.”
He also questioned why gardaí decided to smash the car’s windows instead of waiting for Mr Maughan and his accomplice to get out when Mr Maughan was clearly not going to escape after the stolen vehicle crashed.
“I do not believe flight was possible, nor do I believe the gardaí thought flight was possible.”
Referring to the other gardaí who gave evidence, Judge McDonagh said: “I do not believe his colleagues bathed themselves in glory either. Too much of the evidence in this trial was clearly partisan.”
Yesterday, the jury were shown footage of the moment when the car crashed and Mr Maughan was dragged out. About 15 gardaí arrived quickly on the scene and a garda can be seen striking the suspect with his baton, although Mr Maughan himself is partly concealed in the footage by other gardaí.
Several gardaí gave evidence that Mr Maughan was kicking out violently during the arrest and getting ready to spit at them.
Mr Maughan told Maurice Coffey BL, prosecuting, that gardaí surrounded the car before the passenger window was smashed with a baton and he was pulled through. He said he told the gardaí to relax and then put his arms out so he could be handcuffed.
He claimed the group of gardaí ignored him and started to hit him with their batons and kick him, leaving him with cuts and bruises over his body.
He said they then pulled him up and handcuffed him before kicking him again and putting him in a Garda van. He said he could not identify any of his alleged attackers.
Judge McDonagh thanked the jury for their attendance before dismissing them and telling the accused he was free to go.

The judge is very critical of the gardai (both the defendant and those who gave evidence). I wonder what reaction, if any, the garda authorities will have to that.

_feedback_ · 13-10-2010 02:41PM

senordingdong wrote: »

Ok ok ok ok...lets not get dragged into this again.

Not being smart here, but you were asking questions, and I gave an answer.

senordingdong wrote: »

Never seen or heard of an innocent person getting a hiding myself.

senordingdong wrote: »

Are you sure they were innocent?

elviscostello wrote: »

It doesn't matter if they're innocent or not! Gardaí shouldn't be dishing out beatings!

senordingdong wrote: »

Are we all happy with the result?

Yeah, happy with the result, never wished any bad luck on the Garda.

senordingdong · 13-10-2010 02:43PM

I wonder if a defendant is due an apology when they win a case like this.

dvpower · 13-10-2010 02:46PM

senordingdong wrote: »

I wonder if a defendant is due an apology when they win a case like this.

Why? There was a case to answer and it was answered.
If anything he should be apologising.

thebullkf · 13-10-2010 02:52PM

delighted for the gardain question tbh.

doubt this will go any further within rank and file.

senordingdong · 13-10-2010 02:53PM

dvpower wrote: »

Why? There was a case to answer and it was answered.
If anything he should be apologising.

Becasue he is innocent untill proven guilty.
The verdict was not guilty.

IRLConor · 13-10-2010 02:54PM

dvpower wrote: »

Why? There was a case to answer and it was answered.
If anything he should be apologising.

I doubt either party would be making an apology any time soon.

It was a tricky enough case, with a good chance it could have gone either way.

GreeBo · 13-10-2010 02:59PM

I love the opinion of these fellas who think that they can avoid capture and force a high-speed chase but then once caught the garda are supposed to believe that they will now come quietly and not punch/kick/leggit again at the first opportunity.

Thats why he got dragged out of the car and restrained, because you dont give fruit loops like this an ounce of respect as they abuse it.

You never see police forces that have full backing act like librarians against these thugs. Even if they are innocent, thats all determined with the guy on the ground, hands behind his back and your knee on his head. So you, the police force are in full control of the situation.

dvpower · 13-10-2010 03:17PM

senordingdong wrote: »

Becasue he is innocent untill proven guilty.
The verdict was not guilty.

The verdict was not guilty but the garda didn't come out it it smelling like roses. The judge was quite critical of the garda.

However, the judge said a CCTV recording of the incident reminded him “of the Rodney King beating”.

“Self control was sadly lacking,” he told the court in the absence of the jury. “This to me is a case of a single garda overreacting.”

“I do not believe flight was possible, nor do I believe the gardaí thought flight was possible.”

Perhaps he will reflect on his actions, while short of a criminal offence, attract these kind of comments from a judge.

senordingdong · 13-10-2010 03:23PM

dvpower wrote: »

The verdict was not guilty but the garda didn't come out it it smelling like roses. The judge was quite critical of the garda

I don't think the judges opinions are a matter of fact.

The letter of the law was followed here and the verdict was not guilty.
The garda therefore according to the law, is innocent, judges comments and body odours aside.

seamus · 13-10-2010 03:32PM

dvpower wrote: »

The verdict was not guilty but the garda didn't come out it it smelling like roses. The judge was quite critical of the garda.

Perhaps he will reflect on his actions, while short of a criminal offence, attract these kind of comments from a judge.

To be quite frank, the Judge's opinion is irrelevant. The judge wasn't there and has a cheek to be making comments about the incident on the basis of some scant CCTV footage.

We all know that most judges are completely out of touch with reality in any case.

dvpower · 13-10-2010 03:36PM

senordingdong wrote: »

I don't think the judges opinions are a matter of fact.

They aren't, but they should be taken seriously. The 'Rodney King' comment is already being widely reported, so the garda may be seen as bringing the gardai into disrepute.

When a judge compares an incident involving a garda to the Rodney King incident, the garda authorities should take note.

dvpower · 13-10-2010 03:37PM

seamus wrote: »

To be quite frank, the Judge's opinion is irrelevant. The judge wasn't there and has a cheek to be making comments about the incident on the basis of some scant CCTV footage.

We all know that most judges are completely out of touch with reality in any case.

ffs.
They aren't called judges for nothing:rolleyes:

You do realise that it was the judge that directed the not guilty verdict?

Turner · 13-10-2010 04:08PM

dvpower wrote: »

They aren't, but they should be taken seriously. The 'Rodney King' comment is already being widely reported, so the garda may be seen as bringing the gardai into disrepute.

When a judge compares an incident involving a garda to the Rodney King incident, the garda authorities should take note.

Policing is a tough physical business and when viewed on cctv can look disturbing...

The state has given Gardai the power to use necessary force up to and including lethal force.

The last time a judge was probably involved in a physical incident was during rugby training in Clongowes Wood 50 years ago.

Excellent video of a violent prisoner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z64D-l6JUS8

And i cannot believe the Judge made a comment about them using batons to break the window. Why would they want to do that i wonder.

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ezx5s95Yz98

HarryPotter41 · 13-10-2010 04:17PM

The judges comments are irrelevant and in some instances suggest a complete lack of knowledge particularly to suggest that there was no need to break the window of the car and drag them out, that they should have waited until they both got out.

The idea of breaking the window is to disorientate the suspects and to ensure they have no time to make any move or take out any concealed knife or gun which would threaten the safety of the Gardai or the public.

Standing there waiting for them to open the door and get out would give ample opportunity to produce a dangerous weapon, and remember that the call the Gardai got was of a car stolen with the keys taken from the owner at knife point. As far as the Gardai were concerned the suspects had weapons.

Breaking windows in vehicles containing suspects is common practise among polive forces the world over. The judge should really stick to something they know about, allegedly the law. but then again, its because of their lemient interpretation of same that most of these lads are still on the streets.

archer22 · 13-10-2010 04:22PM

dvpower wrote: »

From the Irish Times

The judge is very critical of the gardai (both the defendant and those who gave evidence). I wonder what reaction, if any, the garda authorities will have to that.

putting it in basic language the judge said the defendant was guilty as hell and his coleagues were a pack of liars.He then directed he be found not guilty :eek:.Jesus no wonder this country is in the state its in and has the police force it deserves.

dvpower · 13-10-2010 04:23PM

Chief--- wrote: »

Policing is a tough physical business and when viewed on cctv can look disturbing...

The state has given Gardai the power to use necessary force up to and including lethal force.

The last time a judge was probably involved in a physical incident was during rugby training in Clongowes Wood 50 years ago.

It may well be very difficult to judge things from a distance and CCTV images shown in a courtroom aren't a substitute for actually being there, but that is the system that we have and short of giving gardai judicial powers, I can't see a better way.

It may be that the Rodney King comments are OTT (judges do sometimes say things that are OTT), but they can hardly be ignored. I'd expect that garda management will respond in some way.

Chief--- wrote: »

And i cannot believe the Judge made a comment about them using batons to break the window. Why would they want to do that i wonder.

Yeah. That struck me as odd too. I'd have thought there would be a standard procedure for this type of scenario.

taytothief · 13-10-2010 04:23PM

Chief--- wrote: »

Excellent video of a violent prisoner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z64D-l6JUS8

I don't see any violence there at all. Resistance maybe.

dvpower · 13-10-2010 04:25PM

archer22 wrote: »

putting it in basic language the judge said the defendant was guilty as hell and his coleagues were a pack of liars.He then directed he be found not guilty :eek:.Jesus no wonder this country is in the state its in and has the police force it deserves.

Things are never just black or white.
I read this as the judge saying that there wasn't the evidence to sustain the charge, but the behaviour of the garda fell below the standard we should expect.

dvpower · 13-10-2010 04:28PM

taytothief wrote: »

I don't see any violence there at all. Resistance maybe.

Resistance is futile!
(in this case anyway)

Degsy · 13-10-2010 04:31PM

taytothief wrote: »

I don't see any violence there at all. Resistance maybe.

And a "hardman" screaming for help like awoman.

archer22 · 13-10-2010 04:33PM

dvpower wrote: »

Things are never just black or white.
I read this as the judge saying that there wasn't the evidence to sustain the charge, but the behaviour of the garda fell below the standard we should expect.

Should it not have been up to the jury to decide if there was enough evidence.Is that not what they were there for.

dvpower · 13-10-2010 04:42PM

archer22 wrote: »

Should it not have been up to the jury to decide if there was enough evidence.Is that not what they were there for.

Juries determine what is fact (based on the evidence), judges determine what the law says. I presume in this case the judge didn't think it came down to a fact being determined (but I don't know what the reasoning was).

Scumbag sues Garda

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