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Economy has turned the corner - Dtandard & Poor

  • 13-10-2010 09:38AM
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭


    Of course this will be like a red rag to a bull to the pathological pessimists who pollute this forum :D

    http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/economy-has-turned-corner-says-top-rating-agency-boss-2376296.html

    Economy has 'turned corner' says top rating agency boss


    By Thomas Molloy, Michael Brennan and Fionnan Sheahan

    Wednesday October 13 2010

    THE economy will recover more quickly than several other European countries and has 'turned a corner', world financial experts claimed last night.
    A key global credit rating agency offered one of the most optimistic assessments to date of our prospects.
    But the chances of consensus emerging among political parties on Budget measures needed over the next four years remained slim after an unenthusiastic intervention by Taoiseach Brian Cowen.
    Other foreign economists also agreed with the agency's assessment, saying the Irish economy had "turned a corner".
    At the same time, Finance Minister Brian Lenihan is grappling with the prospect of generating up to €4.5bn in tax increases and spending cuts in the forthcoming Budget.
    The Standard & Poor's credit rating agency, which has consistently given Ireland negative economic outlooks, provided a distinctly upbeat assessment of our prospects yesterday.
    Its chief economist, David Beers, made the comments in Washington. He said concerns about fiscal and political risks to the country were exaggerated. And he forecast that the economy would recover faster than other peripheral European countries.
    Mr Beers said: "Ireland's competitiveness is improving because the labour market is flexible; they're cutting wages and salaries. So we think that among the peripheral countries it would be the first to begin to recover.
    "People think that the Irish political establishment may be suffering from exhaustion, reform fatigue. We actually do not detect that," he added.
    He was speaking in Washington in the course of meetings of the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank attended by many of the world's financial leaders.
    He said there could be more bad news in the banking sector, but downplayed market fears that the Government could be losing the willingness to proceed with economic reforms or to keep fiscal discipline.
    Mr Beers said the Irish economy was likely to recover faster than other weak eurozone countries such as Portugal, Spain and Greece because it had a more flexible private sector, and foreign direct investment kept flowing into the country.

    FRAGILE
    After his comments, Gillian Edgeworth, an economist at Italian bank UniCredit, which often comments on the Irish economy, said she believed the Irish economy had "turned a corner" although it remained "fragile" as the Government struggled to push down the country's budget deficit.
    Meanwhile, the prospects of cross-party Budget talks, as proposed by Green Party leader John Gormley, are still remote.
    Giving his second cool reaction to his junior coalition partner's idea, Mr Cowen ruled out "tying himself" into the process.

    Opposition
    His comments had been awaited by the opposition parties, who wanted to find out whether he was serious about giving them a real role in drawing up plans to rescue the public finances over the next four years.
    Although Mr Cowen expressed a willingness to meet the opposition party leaders, he warned that the Government had a responsibility to produce its own four-year budgetary plan.
    "I'm not tying you into a process that you may have reservations about, or I’m not tying myself into a process that suggests that we all end up with some arrangement where bits of everyone’s proposals can be considered.
    That wouldn’t meet the requirements of the situation," he said.
    - Thomas Molloy, Michael Brenna


«1

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 535 ✭✭✭Saadyst


    Tora Bora wrote: »

    Mr Beers said: "Ireland's competitiveness is improving because the labour market is flexible; they're cutting wages and salaries. So we think that among the peripheral countries it would be the first to begin to recover.
    "People think that the Irish political establishment may be suffering from exhaustion, reform fatigue. We actually do not detect that," he added.

    He said there could be more bad news in the banking sector, but downplayed market fears that the Government could be losing the willingness to proceed with economic reforms or to keep fiscal discipline.

    I don't really understand this. Public sector salaries will more or less remain the same due to the agreements in place, until 2014? HSE takes up 1/3rd of the entire budget (iirc) and there seems to be little to no effort to clear up wastage... and I'm not hearing of any reform or commitments of actual regulation in the financial sector..?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,433 ✭✭✭✭Mr Benevolent


    I don't believe that for a second. Wait till we get back into the bond markets. Actually the whole thing sounds like a paid advertisement.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,453 ✭✭✭BluePlanet


    Well im sure things seem rosy from some people's eyes.

    Afterall, the government has shown a willingness to scarifice the welfare of people of Ireland before disappointing the international money markets.

    So that's great news, if you're in that particular camp.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    This forum thrives on doom and gloom. Anything that is a little less negative doesn't get past the gatekeepers without being re-interpreted so that it fits with their worldview.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭Tora Bora


    This forum thrives on doom and gloom. Anything that is a little less negative doesn't get past the gatekeepers without being re-interpreted so that it fits with their worldview.

    Exactly ............ as I said in my introduction to the original post.

    Standard and Poor, have been quite negative on the Irish economy over the past two years. :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Nijmegen


    The economy may turn the corner faster, but that doesn't bridge the €24bn gap between current spending and tax receipts, nor will it lift nearly half a million people back into the workforce.

    It's a positive note, but our current problems remain.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,554 ✭✭✭tara73


    This forum thrives on doom and gloom. Anything that is a little less negative doesn't get past the gatekeepers without being re-interpreted so that it fits with their worldview.

    I think mostly it thrives on reality, thank god. we don't need anymore bubble talk/lies to brainwash people/economical facts.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 535 ✭✭✭Saadyst


    This forum thrives on doom and gloom. Anything that is a little less negative doesn't get past the gatekeepers without being re-interpreted so that it fits with their worldview.

    Can we see some actual evidence or reasoning to explain where this optimism should (or is) coming from?

    That's all really. Not airy-fairy stuff, but some logic or math.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    I'm still waiting to see these hundreds of thousands of jobs as promised, or even a remotely likely source for same. There's no such thing as a jobless recovery.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    Saadyst wrote: »
    Can we see some actual evidence or reasoning to explain where this optimism should (or is) coming from?

    The piece quoted in the original post easily meets the language I used: "a little less negative". You are moving the goalposts.

    But I am quite happy to affirm that I am of more optimistic disposition than those that I characterise as the gatekeepers here. Mind you, that's a low threshold, given how extreme is the pessimism that they project.
    That's all really. Not airy-fairy stuff, but some logic or math.

    The bond markets work on "airy-fairy stuff" like the judgements of the ratings agencies. If their opinion of our position changes for the better, the cost of our borrowings falls. That means real money.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,858 ✭✭✭podge3


    Down with this sort of thing - optimism, that is :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 38,989 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    Amhran Nua wrote: »
    ... There's no such thing as a jobless recovery.

    Yes, there is. Google gives over 200,000 hits for the phrase, and they are not all denying that the phenomenon exists.

    More to the point, there is a widely-recognised phenomenon of lag between the onset of recovery and growth in employment levels.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,377 ✭✭✭GSF


    It was only yesterday that the government were telling us that these rating agencies know nothing. Today they are being hailed as foresighted geniuses. Make your mind up guys!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,132 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    Amhran Nua wrote: »
    I'm still waiting to see these hundreds of thousands of jobs as promised, or even a remotely likely source for same. There's no such thing as a jobless recovery.


    There will not be hundreds of thousands of jobs created as the hundreds of thousands of jobs lost were mostly boom jobs that never should have existed at all.

    I don't think our recovery will be totally "jobless" but I also do not expect the days of getting a job in-spite of a total lack of ability, experience or even common sense to be back any time soon.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 370 ✭✭wiseguy


    This forum thrives on doom and gloom. Anything that is a little less negative doesn't get past the gatekeepers without being re-interpreted so that it fits with their worldview.

    As an <ex_public_service> pensioner why would you be gloomy?
    You won't be the one cleaning up this debt derived mess via your taxes and pensioners are untouchable when it comes to cuts. :pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,023 ✭✭✭Tipp Man


    When we stop borrowing billions and billions of Euro annually to fund the excesses/waste of governement spending and get unemployment down to an acceptable level (through creating job and not emigration) then we can say we have turned a corner

    Currently none of this has been done so no corner turned for me


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    wiseguy wrote: »
    As an <ex_public_service> pensioner why would you be gloomy?
    You won't be the one cleaning up this debt derived mess via your taxes and pensioners are untouchable when it comes to cuts. :pac:

    It's inappropriate to bring my personal circumstances into a general discussion.

    Now consider this: I care about people other than myself. That includes young and old; people in the private sector and the public sector and unemployed; rich and poor. My participation in political discussion is motivated by my wanting the best for everybody.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,023 ✭✭✭Tipp Man


    The piece quoted in the original post easily meets the language I used: "a little less negative". You are moving the goalposts.

    But I am quite happy to affirm that I am of more optimistic disposition than those that I characterise as the gatekeepers here. Mind you, that's a low threshold, given how extreme is the pessimism that they project.



    The bond markets work on "airy-fairy stuff" like the judgements of the ratings agencies. If their opinion of our position changes for the better, the cost of our borrowings falls. That means real money.

    I wonder how much worse off you will be after the next budget compared to the "pessimists"

    It's easy be optimistic when you're not the 1 paying for the mess we are in


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 713 ✭✭✭HellsAngel


    Tipp Man wrote: »
    I wonder how much worse off you will be after the next budget compared to the "pessimists"

    It's easy be optimistic when you're not the 1 paying for the mess we are in
    I don't agree with Ahern much, but maybe you could take his advice about what people who are always moaning and cribbing should do with themselves ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    Tipp Man, wiseguy - don't personalise the discussion. Having a go at other posters is not acceptable.

    moderately,
    Scofflaw


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭senordingdong


    We've turned afew corners already.
    I think we're back where we started.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,023 ✭✭✭Tipp Man


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    Tipp Man, wiseguy - don't personalise the discussion. Having a go at other posters is not acceptable.

    moderately,
    Scofflaw

    ok noted
    HellsAngel wrote: »
    I don't agree with Ahern much, but maybe you could take his advice about what people who are always moaning and cribbing should do with themselves ?

    Why don't you produce some evidence to suggest that this country has turned a corner and that we are better off than we were 3, 6, 9 months ago


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 802 ✭✭✭Scarab80


    Tipp Man wrote: »
    Why don't you produce some evidence to suggest that this country has turned a corner and that we are better off than we were 3, 6, 9 months ago

    Ripped from here

    In the week when all of the banking costs were announced the following announcements were also made...

    Friday 24 September:
    CSO report merchandise exports up 12.1% in July over July 2009 and the merchandise trade surplus at an all-time high 0f 4,421.7 million euros.



    Wednesday 29 September:
    CSO report that the seasonally-adjusted number on the live register fell by 5,400 in September.


    Wednesday 29 September:
    CSO report that milk output was up by 12% in August as compared with August 2009.


    Wednesday 29 September:
    CSO report that agricultural prices were up by 10.9% in July as compared with July 2009, while input prices were down 1.4%, giving an unprecedented increase in agricultural terms of trade of 12.4% in July, as compared with July 2009.


    Friday 1 October:
    CSO report that the volume of retail sales was up 1.3% in August, as compared with August 2009.


    Friday 1 October:
    SIMI report that new car sales in August were 93.8% higher than in August 2009.


    Sunday 3 October:
    Media leaks that CSO figures to be published in a few weeks will show a big rebound in the number of foreign tourists in Q3, up 15% seasonally-adjusted as compared with Q1 and Q2.


    Monday 4 October:
    Department of Employment report that the number of redundancies in September were at the lowest since 2007, down 29.6% as compared with August 2009, and little more than half their peak in early 2009.


    Monday 4 October:
    Department of Finance report best exchequer returns since 2007. Tax receipts up 11.4% in September as compared with September 2009. Tax receipts above target (profile) for the third consecutive month, again the first time this has happened since 2007. The amount by which tax receipts are short of target (profile) has fallen from 1.6% in June, to 1.4% in July, to 0.7% in August, to 0.2% in September.


    Tueday 5 October:
    Department of Social Welfare report that, for the second month running, the number of PPSNs issued to foreign nationals in September was up on a year ago, 14.1% higher than in September 2009.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    Yes, there is. Google gives over 200,000 hits for the phrase, and they are not all denying that the phenomenon exists.
    How many hits do you get for UFOs?
    More to the point, there is a widely-recognised phenomenon of lag between the onset of recovery and growth in employment levels.
    Where will these jobs come from? Name one initiative, one policy that has created one economically advantageous job in the last five years. The talk of jobless recoveries and employment lags is starting to sound like a cargo cult strategy.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭senordingdong


    GSF wrote: »
    It was only yesterday that the government were telling us that these rating agencies know nothing. Today they are being hailed as foresighted geniuses. Make your mind up guys!

    Link?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    Scarab80 wrote: »
    Friday 24 September:
    CSO report merchandise exports up 12.1% in July over July 2009 and the merchandise trade surplus at an all-time high 0f 4,421.7 million euros.
    Which presumably includes the multinationals yes? That money doesn't stay in the economy.
    Scarab80 wrote: »
    Wednesday 29 September:
    CSO report that the seasonally-adjusted number on the live register fell by 5,400 in September.
    Already heavily disputed in another thread, and in fact predicted by even the pessimists as the government ships unemployed people off the live register and into courses.
    Scarab80 wrote: »
    Wednesday 29 September:
    CSO report that milk output was up by 12% in August as compared with August 2009.

    Wednesday 29 September:
    CSO report that agricultural prices were up by 10.9% in July as compared with July 2009, while input prices were down 1.4%, giving an unprecedented increase in agricultural terms of trade of 12.4% in July, as compared with July 2009.
    Ah so its agriculture that will save the coutnry.
    Scarab80 wrote: »
    Friday 1 October:
    CSO report that the volume of retail sales was up 1.3% in August, as compared with August 2009.

    Friday 1 October:
    SIMI report that new car sales in August were 93.8% higher than in August 2009.
    Which owes more to the scrappage scheme than to any particular improvements in the economy. And aside from short term VAT injections, what do car dealerships bring to the economy exactly?
    Scarab80 wrote: »
    Sunday 3 October:
    Media leaks that CSO figures to be published in a few weeks will show a big rebound in the number of foreign tourists in Q3, up 15% seasonally-adjusted as compared with Q1 and Q2.
    Someone had better tell the hotels, they're closing left and right.
    Scarab80 wrote: »
    Monday 4 October:
    Department of Employment report that the number of redundancies in September were at the lowest since 2007, down 29.6% as compared with August 2009, and little more than half their peak in early 2009.
    Also long predicted, the first wave of redundancies were the low hanging fruit. After that come the extended slower and harder decisions.
    Scarab80 wrote: »
    Monday 4 October:
    Department of Finance report best exchequer returns since 2007. Tax receipts up 11.4% in September as compared with September 2009.
    Great news! Er... nothing to do with the car scrappage scheme again is it?
    Scarab80 wrote: »
    Tueday 5 October:
    Department of Social Welfare report that, for the second month running, the number of PPSNs issued to foreign nationals in September was up on a year ago, 14.1% higher than in September 2009.
    I'm sure all the people without a job in Ireland will be delighted to hear that news.

    Look, I get that doom and gloom is bad, I do. But the government built a monstrous house of cards and they let the entire nation depend on it. In useful industrial terms the damn boom probably set up back by a decade rather than moving us forward. We need to see hard strategies, real plans, not pointing a wavering finger at the banks and telling us it will all be okay.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,560 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    Given their shambolic performance over the last three to four years, I find it amazing that anybody pays a whit of attention to S&P (or any of the major ratings agencies) these days.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,007 ✭✭✭SIX PACK


    Come on tell us another fib. Thats just to keep us all Sane
    Lets get real about the situation as Brian Lenihan would say. Fcuking Mind bending politicians :mad:


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