Would you mind if Ireland rotted?

jiggawigga · 12-10-2010 07:34PM #1

I'm 28 years old. All my family going back as far as I know are Irish. I'm self employed, work 12+ hour days (regularly more), 6/7 days a week.

I'm well educated and an expert in my field. In terms of economy I only follow the basics. My understanding is the country is destroyed and for the next 10+ years the Irish taxpayer must suffer to repair the damage that has been done.

Personally at this moment in time I hate Ireland and anything Irish. The people, the politicians, the banks, the media. I've worked hard, in school, college, in any job I ever had and now for myself. I don't want to pay for a mess that I had no hand in creating. I'd love nothing more than to leave this country and watch it sink deep into the Atlantic. As you can tell I'm pretty annoyed. I'm just wondering, how many people want to leave but can't and for those that can do they care that this place is ruined?

2qk4u · 12-10-2010 07:45PM

I agree, the only good thing about this country is the fact that you can get a flight out of it (one way). Im waiting until my kids are finished school and old enough to look after themselves. Then Im going weather my wife is going or not..

Sand · 12-10-2010 07:47PM

On the one hand, I dont blame you for that anger and then turning it against as you say "anything Irish".

But dont forget, the people, the politicians, the banks, the media. The reason they have ****ed us is because they dont think Ireland or the Irish people deserve anything better than cute hoorism and skin deep xenophobic nationalism. The Irish people dont deserve good government, cant be trusted with a liberal economic system, must be whipped and beaten into speaking a language we dont want to, must do as they say.

All thats down to them holding the wider Irish people and Irish state in contempt. Anyone who had respect for either wouldnt engage in the amount of corruption and cynicism that describes their activities.

Dont become part of the problem.

Amhran Nua · 12-10-2010 07:54PM

jiggawigga wrote: »

Personally at this moment in time I hate Ireland and anything Irish. The people, the politicians, the banks, the media. I've worked hard, in school, college, in any job I ever had and now for myself. I don't want to pay for a mess that I had no hand in creating.

Brilliant, so instead of doing what you seem to be doing, which is sitting on your arse crying about it, why aren't you involved in changing it? Getting involved with a political party, going out into the wider community and lending a hand? I'm self employed and work hours as long as yourself as well as having a family, but that didn't stop me trying to set up a political party as well as getting stuck in locally to help the newly unemployed and vulnerable.

It gets tiring listening to people wearing out their keyboards in the hopes of rising the usual canned supportive responses. Which it has gotten.

jiggawigga · 12-10-2010 08:16PM

I agree with you for the most part Amhran. I'm just complaining on a board on the Internet. Which is no use to anyone. Fair play to you for keeping it going as well as trying to change things. Why don't I try to change it? I'd consider myself dedicated and tenacious, I don't like to give up but as far as this country goes, I'm just not feeling it any more. To list some generalisations: lazy public service workers, greedy bankers and builders, social welfare scammers. Why would I help these people who either caused or contribute to the problem.

I'm angry, bitter and disappointed and close to removing myself as far from this problem as possible. For me this means running my business in Ireland and spending my money elsewhere. With little effort, I could ensure that all my expenses (business and personal) go out of this tiny little poisoned island. I understand it's counterproductive, but I don't feel like I want to help.

plasteritup · 12-10-2010 08:21PM

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Brilliant, so instead of doing what you seem to be doing, which is sitting on your arse crying about it, why aren't you involved in changing it? Getting involved with a political party, going out into the wider community and lending a hand? I'm self employed and work hours as long as yourself as well as having a family, but that didn't stop me trying to set up a political party as well as getting stuck in locally to help the newly unemployed and vulnerable.

It gets tiring listening to people wearing out their keyboards in the hopes of rising the usual canned supportive responses. Which it has gotten.

you have an average of over 5.5 posts a day over a 13 month period,you have tried to set up a political party,you work 12+hours a day,you volunteer locally also,you have a family,probably a dog to boot.WHERE ARE YOU GETTING THE TIME TO DO ALL THIS. guy has asked a question,you proceed to tell him to get off his ass and basically do all the stuff you claim to do,i can totally understand where he is coming from as can all the other people that gave canned reponses.your comment has not offered anything to his question,plus te op does not sound like a layabout whinger to me,afterall he had the get up and go to open a buisness and work 12 hour days,because of the scum that run this country,he is probably struggling and tying to find out if his feelings are being echoed. by the way op,i am moving away soon to start a new job,feel pretty much the same as you about the whole thing ,will always be home to me so as long as my family and loved ones are here i hope ireland came come out of this mess.

Amhran Nua · 12-10-2010 08:34PM

jiggawigga wrote: »

Why would I help these people who either caused or contribute to the problem.

For every drunken student tearing up the town, there are ten studious young people who want to make a life for themselves. For every long term unemployed bum, there are a hundred who are down on their luck and want to find a job. For every crooked politician there are ten thousand honest, compassionate, hardworking Irish people who are just like you - sick of it and disillusioned. A lot of those people are waking up now, looking around, and they don't much like the sights that greet their eyes, nor should they.

What we have is worth fighting for, although if you listen to some of the mealy mouths around here and in the press you wouldn't be long following our former taoiseach's advice. Properly managed and organised, Ireland has so much potential it's unreal. No industrial infrastructure? Sounds like a blank sheet to me. Highly motivated and educated workforce? Check. Favourable business legislation? Got that too. All that's missing is leadership, direction, and lets face it a serious adjustment in the systems of government, and that's where we need to make a difference.

The less people care, the less chance we all have. And you can lodge that in whatever bank you like.

Amhran Nua · 12-10-2010 08:37PM

plasteritup wrote: »

WHERE ARE YOU GETTING THE TIME TO DO ALL THIS.

Pretty much the same place anyone gets the time to do anything.

plasteritup wrote: »

guy has asked a question,you proceed to tell him to get off his ass and basically do all the stuff you claim to do,i can totally understand where he is coming from as can all the other people that gave canned reponses.your comment has not offered anything to his question,plus te op does not sound like a layabout whinger to me,afterall he had the get up and go to open a buisness and work 12 hour days,because of the scum that run this country,he is probably struggling and tying to find out if his feelings are being echoed. by the way op,i am moving away soon to start a new job,feel pretty much the same as you about the whole thing ,will always be home to me so as long as my family and loved ones are here i hope ireland came come out of this mess.

Struck a nerve did we?

jiggawigga · 12-10-2010 08:50PM

Amhran I admire your positivity in such a negative and dark climate. But I think your logic and estimates are flawed. Anywhere has serious potential given the right circumstances. But we don't have those circumstances... we have the opposite. To summarise... f*ck this country.

Amhran Nua · 12-10-2010 08:55PM

jiggawigga wrote: »

To summarise... f*ck this country.

Suit yourself. But the next time you look around and things are a mess, remember you're complaining about a problem you could have done something about.

jiggawigga · 12-10-2010 09:06PM

There won't be a next time, you're going to fix it all apparently

rumour · 12-10-2010 09:25PM

jiggawigga wrote: »

Amhran I admire your positivity in such a negative and dark climate. But I think your logic and estimates are flawed. Anywhere has serious potential given the right circumstances. But we don't have those circumstances... we have the opposite. To summarise... f*ck this country.

What has you so down? We all get up every day and do something, what you do is entirely your choice. So your expectations of that something have changed so what...this happens everyone all through life. Adapt.

****....we owe some money....ok our public sector is a little bit slow in figuring out what that means. That does not mean it's the end of the world or Ireland. There is a challenge to re-make Ireland. Where challenges exist so does opportunity. The bigger the challenge the bigger the opportunity.

We all have choices to make in life. If yours is to leave then please go, if its to stay well get on board, tough job ahead. Frankly wallowing in self pity never achieved much, so good luck wherever you go.

Amhran Nua · 12-10-2010 09:26PM

jiggawigga wrote: »

There won't be a next time, you're going to fix it all apparently

Yeah, slim though the odds are of us having any demonstrable effect in time to make a difference, anything is better than sitting there gnashing the teeth. Would you even write a letter to your TD or something?

plasteritup · 12-10-2010 09:30PM

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Suit yourself. But the next time you look around and things are a mess, remember you're complaining about a problem you could have done something about.

ok mr new day.no job no money family to feed,i know il swan around my local community and start a new political party,dont think that would put food on the table tomorrow night,oh i know i will tell the wife and kids that im popping out to do some unpaid work,that would go down well,no **** this country i am going to go and put food on the table and if that means jumping off a sinking ship whoop di ****in do,and another thing u making comments like struck a nerve did we,sounds like something one of our tds would say when the camera or mic is off,would not be voting for any mickeymouse party you tried to set up,bet all your neighbours are sick of you muppeting around with you political party.

Amhran Nua · 12-10-2010 09:36PM

plasteritup wrote: »

no **** this country i am going to go and put food on the table and if that means jumping off a sinking ship whoop di ****in do

Nobody would hold it against you if you emigrate. I certainly wouldn't. In fact we're running a petition to give emigrants the right to vote on the website so your voice can still be heard from abroad. Its not an answer I'm satisfied with for myself however, although that decision comes with a stiff price.

plasteritup wrote: »

bet all your neighbours are sick of you muppeting around with you political party.

Possibly, although why they offered me the role of chairman of the residents' committee would then be something of a mystery.

plasteritup · 12-10-2010 09:41PM

Possibly, although why they offered me the role of chairman of the residents' committee would then be something of a mystery.[/QUOTE]

enuf said.

Liam Byrne · 12-10-2010 09:43PM

If (a large proportion of) Ireland votes FF again, then I'll be following the OP, because it'll mean that they want a society that I don't want to be a part of.

jiggawigga · 12-10-2010 09:49PM

What's your new party Amhran?

I'm so down because of the situation in general but in particular my negative equity has increased by 50k to at least 130k in the last month and since last week I found out there's now a couple of council houses in the small estate where I live. I don't want to open a can of worms. But I didn't bust my hole for the last 10 years getting educated and working hard, saving and saving to buy a decent house only for it to drop in value by 33% and then 2 large families of immigrants get handed it on a plate a few doors down (which realistically even further depreciates my house).

Amhran Nua · 12-10-2010 10:32PM

jiggawigga wrote: »

What's your new party Amhran?

You can take a look at some of the policies here. We're probably rolling out a new enterprise policy soon though.

jiggawigga wrote: »

I'm so down because of the situation in general but in particular my negative equity has increased by 50k to at least 130k in the last month and since last week I found out there's now a couple of council houses in the small estate where I live. I don't want to open a can of worms. But I didn't bust my hole for the last 10 years getting educated and working hard, saving and saving to buy a decent house only for it to drop in value by 33% and then 2 large families of immigrants get handed it on a plate a few doors down (which realistically even further depreciates my house).

Well the price of your house doesn't matter until you sell it, and in all likelihood those families are on the Rental Allowance Scheme or something similar rather than just being handed the deeds. Call in to them and say hello sure, if the best that can be made of it is that you make some new friends, that's something anyway.

the_dark_side · 12-10-2010 10:45PM

if you are in negative equity, I am sorry about that, unfortunately this will probably not change, in our lifetime at least. It has now been disclosed that there are 2,700 ghost estates in Ireland now, and thanks to Google Street view, you can go and explore them, county by county.

Their not so sure what to do with them, but it is growing more and more likely that alot of the partially completed ones will be bulldozed

The rest will be either given to social housing, or sold for a song.

See now how our corrupt government have destroyed so many people's lives?

Make sure to have a look at this video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSCPzu_O0Yw

dunsandin · 12-10-2010 10:52PM

Everywhere is everywhere. If you hate here, and move, you bring with you that which you hate. If you love here and move, you will probably love where you have gone. Who cares what Lenno and Biffo and Co have done, as the yanks say, "fork your own bronc", i.e, feed your own horse. Do your own thing and appreciate the good things you have in your life. We as individuals are not the state, we are us. if the state rots, we do not have to rot with it Do your own thing and find your own happiness. Personally, I have travelled widely, and I like it here. I'm staying. F4ck FF, and their cronies, I make my own happiness.

P. Breathnach · 12-10-2010 10:58PM

the_dark_side wrote: »

... Make sure to have a look at this video...

I did. Now can I have my 10 minutes back, please?

plasteritup · 12-10-2010 11:15PM

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Brilliant, so instead of doing what you seem to be doing, which is sitting on your arse crying about it, why aren't you involved in changing it? Getting involved with a political party, going out into the wider community and lending a hand? I'm self employed and work hours as long as yourself as well as having a family, but that didn't stop me trying to set up a political party as well as getting stuck in locally to help the newly unemployed and vulnerable.

It gets tiring listening to people wearing out their keyboards in the hopes of rising the usual canned supportive responses. Which it has gotten.

have just looked at your partys website,is the above the routine way to respond to the concerns and worries of the youth of the country.is this party policy or just yours.thanks,please dont give a backtracking response like we get from current government.

plasteritup · 12-10-2010 11:18PM

Amhran Nua wrote: »

You can take a look at some of the policies here. We're probably rolling out a new enterprise policy soon though.

Well the price of your house doesn't matter until you sell it.

take it your mortgage is well paid up then,you and your party want to knock on all the homes in ireland in ne and feed them that tripe.

Ulysses Gaze · 12-10-2010 11:25PM

I look at the situation like this;

Ireland currently is infected with a virulent virus (FF). In order to eradicate this virus it may be necessary to destroy the host (Ireland) before it can be repaired.

Do I want Ireland to rot? No, not at all. It's my home and even though I am temporarily away from it (needs must thanks to the "well managed", "diversified" FF Economy) I'd like to move back one day.

I really hope it's when FF are consigned to being a minority party scraping 10-11% of the vote.

Hey, I can dream!!!!

BehindTheScenes · 13-10-2010 01:48AM

jiggawigga wrote: »

Amhran I admire your positivity in such a negative and dark climate. But I think your logic and estimates are flawed. Anywhere has serious potential given the right circumstances. But we don't have those circumstances... we have the opposite. To summarise... f*ck this country.

Well guess what the good thing is that although the country is in a financial quagmire Dublin airport is still running. Better again you can buy a plane ticket online. So good luck and good bye.

I am self-employed and work the same hours as yourself. My Irish takings are down approximately 50%. To take in more I have had to expand in to other countries, so stop complaining and expand or diversify.

To all the people who knock this country and say f**k it, go elsewhere and then you'll realise that this is actually a pretty good country to live in.

By the way if you actually go elsewhere and like it, good, stay there and be happy.

maninasia · 13-10-2010 01:59AM

jiggawigga wrote: »

What's your new party Amhran?

I'm so down because of the situation in general but in particular my negative equity has increased by 50k to at least 130k in the last month and since last week I found out there's now a couple of council houses in the small estate where I live. I don't want to open a can of worms. But I didn't bust my hole for the last 10 years getting educated and working hard, saving and saving to buy a decent house only for it to drop in value by 33% and then 2 large families of immigrants get handed it on a plate a few doors down (which realistically even further depreciates my house).

This is the core issue at heard (for immigrant please replace any special interest group in Ireland, there are many hardworking immigrants in Ireland!).

Basically private enterprises and hard working individuals and people who take on reasonable risk (not the developers/banker cabal) get penalised and the trend is negative. More taxes means more pressures on private earned income while other groups still get very generous deals to keep them in line. That's why I can see why you are so unhappy. The productive part of society is getting done over.

Things need to be turned around so the trend is positive for entrepeneurship, people need hope I can understand this. Then you could live with your negative equity much easier because you have the magic thing called HOPE.

I live in Asia and it's all about what you can do for yourself, nobody expects a hand-out, a completely different mindset.

femur61 · 13-10-2010 06:03AM

jiggawigga wrote: »

I'm 28 years old. Personally at this moment in time I hate Ireland and anything Irish. The people, the politicians, the banks, the media. I've worked hard, in school, college, in any job I ever had and now for myself. I don't want to pay for a mess that I had no hand in creating. I'd love nothing more than to leave this country and watch it sink deep into the Atlantic. As you can tell I'm pretty annoyed. I'm just wondering, how many people want to leave but can't and for those that can do they care that this place is ruined?

Obviously you don't remember the 80's. I left then because I felt supressed by the catholic society and politics in this country. We have gotten ourselves into the exact same mess again, but without the church. I was watching the Frontline the other night and everyone was talking about enterpeneurship but I don't feel like starting a business to pay taxes to pay for the Senad, inept governemnt (too many TD's), totally inflated HSE and Public Service.

And all our fustration we are typing away, what good is that doing? Whats keeping me here, is my kids are still in school.

sarumite · 13-10-2010 07:01AM

jiggawigga wrote: »

I'm 28 years old. All my family going back as far as I know are Irish. I'm self employed, work 12+ hour days (regularly more), 6/7 days a week.

I'm well educated and an expert in my field. In terms of economy I only follow the basics. My understanding is the country is destroyed and for the next 10+ years the Irish taxpayer must suffer to repair the damage that has been done.

Personally at this moment in time I hate Ireland and anything Irish. The people, the politicians, the banks, the media. I've worked hard, in school, college, in any job I ever had and now for myself. I don't want to pay for a mess that I had no hand in creating. I'd love nothing more than to leave this country and watch it sink deep into the Atlantic. As you can tell I'm pretty annoyed. I'm just wondering, how many people want to leave but can't and for those that can do they care that this place is ruined?

I am only a few years older than yourself. While I don't think I have the experience to be considered an expert in my field, I have always applied myself at what I do. I worked hard at shool and college and had a good job. Unfortunately I made the decision to move jobs just before the bubble broke and the company I moved to made cutbacks....I was one of the cutbacks. Since then I have had to move to a new country (Sweden) where I don't speak the language. Its been a tough year as I have had to leave my family and friends to find work. However I still hope to return someday when I can get a job.

As someone who has stood on the Hill in '95 to watch Dublin win the All Ireland, I have also stood in the pouring rain in Parnell Park to watch Dublin play absolute ****e football and lose miserably.....I do not consider myself a fairtweather supporter. Reading your comments makes me wonder if you felt the same 5 years ago when the going was good? All too often I hear people who enjoyed Ireland during the good times, now throwing nothing but scorn its way.

the_syco · 13-10-2010 07:51AM

Everyone moans about FF. They say that whoever replaces them will do a better job. They may be right. Unfortunately, no-one seems to have a plan that differs much from FF's plan. Except Labour, but as seem to be orbiting the unions backside at close range, I don't trust them.

Would I mind if Ireland rotted? Yes, I'd mind, as I like Ireland. Unlike the 80's, everywhere is kind of f**ked.

dan_d · 13-10-2010 08:13AM

rumour wrote: »

What has you so down? We all get up every day and do something, what you do is entirely your choice. So your expectations of that something have changed so what...this happens everyone all through life. Adapt.

****....we owe some money....ok our public sector is a little bit slow in figuring out what that means. That does not mean it's the end of the world or Ireland. There is a challenge to re-make Ireland. Where challenges exist so does opportunity. The bigger the challenge the bigger the opportunity.

We all have choices to make in life. If yours is to leave then please go, if its to stay well get on board, tough job ahead. Frankly wallowing in self pity never achieved much, so good luck wherever you go.

Okay, I agree with your attitude, but I have to take issue with the middle paragraph.

We do owe some money, and our public sector is a bit slow to figure that out. Absolutely. But the bit that rankles with me the most is that we had the chance to re-make Ireland. We had the money, and the freedom to do it and we flushed it down the toilet. I remember being a student (was in college from 01-05), looking around me and thinking...if we have all this money and things are getting so great...how come the train service I use every day is still so sh%t? How come there aren't more buses out to where we live, instead of just the one bus every hour and a half - that's always late? Surely if we have all this money, it would make sense to build a good public transport system?? Why are there housing estates being built in the middle of nowhere? Why aren't we forcing developers to provide things like train stations, bus stops, pay money towards extending a dart line out towards their housing estates? Or even basic things, like a few shops in the middle of the estates? And why are all my neighbours, who are ordinary middle class Irish people, suddenly driving Mercs and installing new kitchens every other year?

So where am I going with all this? If I, at the age of about 20, could see that something was drastically, horribly wrong, I don't believe for one second that nobody knew what was going on with the banks. I don't believe the current crop of civil servants in the Dept of Finance should be still there, giving advice to anyone. They screwed up. They were obviously either too stupid or turning a blind eye, to see what we were doing, where we were obviously heading. Neither of those traits is a recommendation to have them continue giving advice now. The same politicians are residing over the rebuilding, as resided over the collapse. I mean, wtf?? I'm a civil engineer. If I supervised the construction of something that collapsed, or designed something that collapsed, I'd be kicked out the door quicker than you could blink.

The worst thing is that I am consigning the whole set of politicians to the devil. Not one of them would I trust in there. And who the hell else is there? So at this point in time, Ireland can rot for all I care. I want out. Nothing's going to change until Irish people start setting their standards bar higher and demanding more from their politicians. But that's not going to happen any time soon as far as I can see. We just don't want to hear it - if it's not going to improve the local GAA pitch, then we're not interested. So much as I love this country, and hate the people who have managed to destroy it, I'm happy to wash my hands of it. Hopefully I'll be able to get out - and I might come back when Irish people have grown up.

Would you mind if Ireland rotted?

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